Milk powder

[Eldene]

I got a powder porridge/shake supplement from the Clinic. As a vegan I checked out the casien and found that it had MSG in (mono sodium glucanate). Is this not toxic? They found that 50% of celiac patients was also milk intolerant. 

[Scott Adams]

This article may be helpful:

 

[Eldene]

JustI'm sorry, but as a trained lifestyle councillor, MSG is toxic, albeit it may be gluten free.

My body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and as far as possible, I try to keep it healthy.

[Wheatwacked]

Those telling us that MSG is good, are the same people who tell us that gluten is not causing our symptoms as Celiac and NCGS; causing extra years of misery and treatments for misdiagnosed diseases.  Bad information.

Omega 6 is an important fatty acid, but in a ratio of 1:1 with omega 3; not the 20:1 ratio that we have in our Standard American Diet (SAD 🥵)  

What is their ulterior motive in misleading us?

They tell us from one side of the mouth that research finds no link between MSG and inflammation; and often in the same sentence, from the other side of their mouths they say there are symptoms, but they go away quickly so it is safe to ignore. "But researchers have found no clear proof of a link between MSG and these symptoms... Symptoms are often mild and don't need to be treated. The only way to prevent a reaction is to not eat foods that have MSG in them.

Replace gluten for MSG and we can see why diagnosing Celiac Disease is so hard.

Some information on omega 6:3 ratio in food.

• Wheat flour 20:1
• Sweet potatos 18:1 yet they say sweet potatos are healthier than white.
• tomato 18:1
• White potatoes 4:1
• Commercial Dairy 5:1
• 100% Grass fed dairy 1:1
• farmed salmon 1:1
• grass fed beef 2:1
• grain fed beef from 5:1 to 13:1

          What is MSG? Is it bad for you?  "the FDA has received many reports of concerning reactions that people have attributed to foods that had MSG in them. These reactions — called MSG symptom complex — include:

• Headache
• Flushing
• Sweating
• Face pressure or tightness
• Lack of feeling (numbness), tingling or burning in the face, neck and other areas
• Quick, fluttering heartbeats
• Chest pain
• Feeling sick (nausea)
• Weakness
• But researchers have found no clear proof of a link between MSG and these symptoms. Researchers admit, though, that a small number of people may have short-term reactions to MSG. Symptoms are often mild and don't need to be treated. The only way to prevent a reaction is to not eat foods that have MSG in them.

    

  Monosodium glutamate alter hepatic functions, redox potential and lipid metabolism: Omega 3 fatty acids ameliorative interventionResults revealed that administration of MSG induced imbalance in lipid metabolism, oxidative stress and hepatic dysfunction. These were revealed by significant decreases in TG, HDL-C, CAT, GSH, albumin and total protein; but, significant increases in LDL-C, MDA, AST, ALT, ALP, and total bilirubin (TB), compared to control group. Administration of graded doses of ω-3 following treatment with MSG was characterized with significant reductions in ALT, ALP, TB and MDA. The administration of ω-3 showed no effects on the antioxidant indices. Conclusively, LD ω-3 is a potent ameliorative supplement which can be administered after pre-exposure to MSG.

[newtonfree]

There are a few issues in your original post that should probably be addressed separately.

Casein is a milk protein, so right off the bat, that product certainly isn't vegan if that's your concern.

There is also some evidence of cross-reactivity between casein and gluten in terms of the antibodies we form as celiacs. Personally, I challenged dairy three separate times and had it flare my celiac symptoms each time (including my DH, which is a smoking gun for celiac, rather than GI symptoms which could also be from a dairy intolerance or allergy), so I'm inclined to believe in the cross-reactivity hypothesis, but that's anecdotal evidence and for all I know, the dairy products could have contained hidden gluten. They weren't certified and batch-tested for gluten, so I have to consider the possibility that it wasn't the dairy itself I reacted to.

MSG is another topic entirely. While I'm not "a fan," and won't personally add it to my food or buy anything with it added, I think there's also some fear-mongering that can get blown out of proportion.

Glutamate/glutamic acid can be found naturally in significant amounts in foods that have not been associated with an unhealthy diet or bad health outcomes. In fact, some of those foods are heavily featured in the lauded Mediterranean diet that consistently ranks at the top in epidemiological studies when looking at health outcomes, as well as in some of the traditional Asian cuisines that also vie for top of the list of healthiest diets. Some of those foods are even darlings among the recent evidence-based autoimmune/anti-inflammatory diets, like mushrooms and anchovies.

For those reasons, I have trouble believing that glutamate itself is a poison. However, if a food has added glutamate in the form of MSG, you already know it's a processed food, and we have ample evidence that processed foods are bad for us, much as we have ample evidence that large doses of MSG are bad for us.

But that doesn't mean that glutamate/glutamic acid itself is the culprit, or that we should avoid whole foods that naturally contain high levels of it. And if those foods can be good for us (and all evidence currently suggests that that is the case), then we can't conclude that glutamate itself is the problem, or that we should avoid natural sources of it.

I do, however, feel that there's compelling enough evidence to avoid MSG, which is why I do just that. It's pretty easy these days, as I've been avoiding processed foods for a number of health-related reasons anyway, including the fact that more ingredients automatically means more opportunity for gluten CC. It's a happy coincidence that whole foods are objectively the healthiest options for other reasons, too - they also make it much easier to adhere to a strict GFD.

[trents]

No one is saying MSG is good for you. Food industry and scientists are saying it does no harm to most people. And this forum is about the impact of gluten on celiacs. No one is promoting MSG but we are saying it does not contain gluten.

[Eldene]

14 hours ago, newtonfree said:

There are a few issues in your original post that should probably be addressed separately.

Casein is a milk protein, so right off the bat, that product certainly isn't vegan if that's your concern.

There is also some evidence of cross-reactivity between casein and gluten in terms of the antibodies we form as celiacs. Personally, I challenged dairy three separate times and had it flare my celiac symptoms each time (including my DH, which is a smoking gun for celiac, rather than GI symptoms which could also be from a dairy intolerance or allergy), so I'm inclined to believe in the cross-reactivity hypothesis, but that's anecdotal evidence and for all I know, the dairy products could have contained hidden gluten. They weren't certified and batch-tested for gluten, so I have to consider the possibility that it wasn't the dairy itself I reacted to.

MSG is another topic entirely. While I'm not "a fan," and won't personally add it to my food or buy anything with it added, I think there's also some fear-mongering that can get blown out of proportion.

Glutamate/glutamic acid can be found naturally in significant amounts in foods that have not been associated with an unhealthy diet or bad health outcomes. In fact, some of those foods are heavily featured in the lauded Mediterranean diet that consistently ranks at the top in epidemiological studies when looking at health outcomes, as well as in some of the traditional Asian cuisines that also vie for top of the list of healthiest diets. Some of those foods are even darlings among the recent evidence-based autoimmune/anti-inflammatory diets, like mushrooms and anchovies.

For those reasons, I have trouble believing that glutamate itself is a poison. However, if a food has added glutamate in the form of MSG, you already know it's a processed food, and we have ample evidence that processed foods are bad for us, much as we have ample evidence that large doses of MSG are bad for us.

But that doesn't mean that glutamate/glutamic acid itself is the culprit, or that we should avoid whole foods that naturally contain high levels of it. And if those foods can be good for us (and all evidence currently suggests that that is the case), then we can't conclude that glutamate itself is the problem, or that we should avoid natural sources of it.

I do, however, feel that there's compelling enough evidence to avoid MSG, which is why I do just that. It's pretty easy these days, as I've been avoiding processed foods for a number of health-related reasons anyway, including the fact that more ingredients automatically means more opportunity for gluten CC. It's a happy coincidence that whole foods are objectively the healthiest options for other reasons, too - they also make it much easier to adhere to a strict GFD.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that natural MSG is not the culprit. I avoid adding it, and as far as casien does make me feel sick (I have been a 90% vegan for years and that causes the problem. Thank you for your insightful comments on MSG. I appreciate it. I will have to speak to a dietitian about the Celiac/Casein reaction.

Eldene

[Scott Adams]

On 10/7/2023 at 12:48 PM, trents said:

No one is saying MSG is good for you. Food industry and scientists are saying it does no harm to most people. And this forum is about the impact of gluten on celiacs. No one is promoting MSG but we are saying it does not contain gluten.

Yes, we are well aware that MSG may cause some people to have various health issues, but for most it isn't an issue. On this forum we're focused mostly on whether or not it would be a source of gluten and unsafe for those who have celiac disease or are gluten sensitive.

[knitty kitty]

@Eldene,

Some Celiacs are lactose intolerant because they cannot produce an enzyme needed to digest the sugar in dairy, lactose.  This enzyme is normally made in the tips of the villi lining the small intestine.  The autoimmune response in Celiac Disease damages villi in such a way that the enzyme cannot be made.  Undigested sugars in dairy feed the bacteria in our intestines, producing gas and other lactose intolerance symptoms.  Following a gluten free diet can allow the villi to regrow and continue making the dairy digesting enzyme again. 

Some people have genes that tell their bodies to stop making dairy digesting enzymes as they age.  

Some Celiacs, about half, including me, have the same autoimmune reaction to dairy products as to gluten.  This is because segments of the protein in dairy, casein, resembles segments of the protein, gluten.  Our bodies react with an autoimmune response to both.  Avoidance of both is necessary.

Are you ensuring you are getting sufficient Vitamin B12 Cobalamine?  Vegetarians can have a problem with low iron, too. 

Ask your dietician about the Autoimmune Protocol Diet.  It's very helpful in reducing inflammation.

Reference:

Mucosal reactivity to cow's milk protein in coeliac disease

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1810502/