Oats gluten free?

[Eldene]

I have been gluten free and vegan for almost a year now, as I am also milk intollerant. My Celiac symptoms are getting worse! Is Oats réally naturally gluten free? Two trusted soarces state that people with gluten intolerance should not eat oats. I am reacting to even certified GLUTEN FREE stamped oats. I eat very healthy and balanced, but still have all the symptoms. I have to go to State MD's and they can only advise me to go gluten free. Àny input, please?

[MissEva]

I’ve read oats can cross-react with gluten and that sometimes Celiacs don’t tolerate oats. I have a Celiac friend who found out she can’t tolerate oats after being very sick for awhile because of it. 

[Scott Adams]

Oats naturally contain a protein called avenin, which is similar to the gluten proteins found in wheat, barley, and rye. While avenin is generally considered safe for most people with celiac disease, some individuals, around 5-10% of celiacs, may also have sensitivity to avenin, leading to symptoms similar to gluten exposure.

You may fall into this category, and eliminating them is the best way to figure this out. Some people substitute gluten-free quinoa flakes for oats if they want a hot cereal substitute.

If you are interested in summaries of scientific publications on the topic of oats and celiac disease, we have an entire category dedicated to it which is here:

https://www.celiac.com/celiac-disease/oats-and-celiac-disease-are-they-gluten-free/ 

 

[Eldene]

On 4/10/2024 at 11:25 AM, Eldene said:

I have been gluten free and vegan for almost a year now, as I am also milk intollerant. My Celiac symptoms are getting worse! Is Oats réally naturally gluten free? Two trusted soarces state that people with gluten intolerance should not eat oats. I am reacting to even certified GLUTEN FREE stamped oats. I eat very healthy and balanced, but still have all the symptoms. I have to go to State MD's and they can only advise me to go gluten free. Àny input, please?

Any Naturopaths on this site?

[Scott Adams]

There is a product call Quinoa Flakes that might be a good substitute for oats.

[Eldene]

Thanks - will see if I can find it. 

[Lori Lavell]

On 4/10/2024 at 4:25 AM, Eldene said:

I have been gluten free and vegan for almost a year now, as I am also milk intollerant. My Celiac symptoms are getting worse! Is Oats réally naturally gluten free? Two trusted soarces state that people with gluten intolerance should not eat oats. I am reacting to even certified GLUTEN FREE stamped oats. I eat very healthy and balanced, but still have all the symptoms. I have to go to State MD's and they can only advise me to go gluten free. Àny input, please?

 

Just now, Lori Lavell said:

 

Oats contain a gluten protein called Avenin.I'm Celiac and eat no grains. I am also a Functional Nutrition Nutritionist. 

[normagain]

I grind up nuts, seeds and buckwheat and add some oatmeal, soak it over night in couple tbsp of kefir but yogurt or acv can be used that gets rid of some of the antinutrients and creates some probiotics. You could easily omit the oatmeal and still have a nutritious breakfast which is more healthful than just eating oatmeal, imo.

[Eldene]

On 4/21/2024 at 4:11 PM, Lori Lavell said:

 

Oats contain a gluten protein called Avenin.I'm Celiac and eat no grains. I am also a Functional Nutrition Nutritionist. 

Thank you - Scott also informed me.

[Viroval]

I've seen some gluten free oats, but I'm not sure 

[trents]

The oat protein, avenin, is not gluten. It is similar to gluten, however, and similar enough to cause a gluten-like reaction in some celiacs.

[Lori Lavell]

On 4/21/2024 at 7:11 AM, Lori Lavell said:

 

Oats contain a gluten protein called Avenin.  I'm Celiac and eat no grains. I am also a Certified Functional Nutrition Counselor.

In fact ALL grains contain different forms of gluten that go by different names. Corn contains Zein and Rice contains Orzenin. We all need to realize that a very small amount of any of these grains can cause continued systemic inflammation which is not optimal for allowing the body to heal itself.  

[trents]

I disagree, Lori. Gluten is a particular protein, not a category of proteins. It is found in wheat, barley and rye. Other cereal grains have proteins that resemble gluten to one degree or another but are not gluten. Gluten is gluten. Avenin is avenin. But yes, it is true, that informally speaking, some have used the term "gluten" to refer to the proteins found in these other cereal grains. It's like the term "kleenex" has come to refer to all facial tissues.

[Scott Adams]

24 minutes ago, Lori Lavell said:

In fact ALL grains contain different forms of gluten that go by different names. Corn contains Zein and Rice contains Orzenin. We all need to realize that a very small amount of any of these grains can cause continued systemic inflammation which is not optimal for allowing the body to heal itself.  

Thank you for sharing your perspective. It's true that many grains contain proteins that are technically classified as "glutens" (like zein in corn and orzenin in rice), but it's important to clarify that these proteins are not the same as the gluten found in wheat, barley, and rye, which contains gliadin and glutenin. These specific proteins are the ones that trigger an autoimmune response in people with celiac disease.

For individuals with celiac disease, the primary concern is avoiding gluten from wheat, barley, and rye, as these are the grains scientifically proven to cause damage to the small intestine. While some people with celiac disease or non-celiac gluten sensitivity may also react to other grains, this is not universal and varies from person to person. For most people with celiac disease, grains like corn and rice are considered safe and are widely recommended as part of a gluten-free diet.

That said, you raise an important point about systemic inflammation and individual tolerance. Some people may indeed have sensitivities to other grains or find that eliminating additional grains helps them feel better. However, it’s crucial to differentiate between celiac disease, which requires strict avoidance of wheat, barley, and rye, and other conditions or sensitivities that may involve broader dietary restrictions.

[Lori Lavell]

34 minutes ago, trents said:

I disagree, Lori. Gluten is a particular protein, not a category of proteins. It is found in wheat, barley and rye. Other cereal grains have proteins that resemble gluten to one degree or another but are not gluten. Gluten is gluten. Avenin is avenin. But yes, it is true, that informally speaking, some have used the term "gluten" to refer to the proteins found in these other cereal grains. It's like the term "kleenex" has come to refer to all facial tissues.

The body reacts to all grain proteins in all grains from my observation. Call it Gluten, Gliadin, which is what they test for commonly, however, I am Celiac and react with dermatitis herpetiformis to corn and the glutenous protein in it is called Zein. They only test for Gliadin. Testing needs to be updated in my opinion. It only take a small parts per million to continuously create systemic inflammation. This is not productive to healing and all grains contain some for gluten like substance. It's called Molecular Mimicry.

[trents]

Okay, Lori, we can agree on the term "gluten-like". My concern here is that you and other celiacs who do experience celiac reactions to other grains besides wheat, barley and rye are trying to make this normative for the whole celiac community when it isn't. And using the term "gluten" to refer to these other grain proteins is going to be confusing to new celiacs trying to figure out what grains they actually do need to avoid and which they don't. Your experience is not normative so please don't proselytize as if it were.

[Scott Adams]

22 hours ago, Lori Lavell said:

The body reacts to all grain proteins in all grains from my observation. Call it Gluten, Gliadin, which is what they test for commonly, however, I am Celiac and react with dermatitis herpetiformis to corn and the glutenous protein in it is called Zein. They only test for Gliadin. Testing needs to be updated in my opinion. It only take a small parts per million to continuously create systemic inflammation. This is not productive to healing and all grains contain some for gluten like substance. It's called Molecular Mimicry.

Your point about the limitations of current testing is valid, but the idea of "molecular mimicry" with rice and corn glutens is less clear. While corn contains zein, which can trigger reactions in some celiac patients, rice is generally considered safe and lacks proteins structurally similar to gluten. The term "molecular mimicry" is often overused and not well-supported in the context of all grains. While your experience with corn is noteworthy, extending this to all grains, including rice, may not be scientifically justified. Testing and research should indeed improve, but claims about all grains causing similar reactions need more evidence.

[trents]

I did some research on what exactly is gluten . . . what defines it. 

"The term gluten usually refers to the elastic network of a wheat grain's proteins, gliadin and glutenin primarily . . . "

"The types of grains that contain gluten include all species of wheat (common wheat, durum, spelt, khorasan, emmer and einkorn), and barley, rye, and some cultivars of oat" (emphasis mine)

"The storage proteins in other grains, such as maize (zeins) and rice (rice protein), are sometimes called gluten, but they do not cause harmful effects in people with celiac disease." (emphasis mine)

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten

What I found most interesting is that some cultivars of oats contain gluten. Could this explain, in part at least, the controversy surrounding oats? I mean, depending on the source, it could indeed sometimes include gluten and cause a celiac reaction.

[knitty kitty]

Lectins are carbohydrate storage proteins.  Different plants have different lectins.  Gluten is a lectin, but not all lectins are gluten.  

Lectins are made up of a protein "spine" with a bunch of carbohydrate molecules stuck to it.  During digestion, the carbohydrates get pulled off, but that protein "spine" can get stuck to cell membranes. 

In Celiac, our immunity kicks on when exposed to gluten.  Gluten is made up of a string of polypeptides.  One particular segment in that string, the 33-mer segment, triggers our built-in celiac immunity to produce antibodies against it when it sticks to HLA DQ genes.  Unfortunately, our body makes tissue transglutaminase, used in cell membranes as support structures, which also contains segments of that 33-mer polypeptide.  The anti-tissue transglutaminase antibodies (ttg antibodies) attack the tissue transglutaminase on our cell surfaces, as well as the gluten in celiac disease.  

In acquired immunity - our body gets sick once, learns to produce antibodies against the thing causing the illness, and "remembers" so it can make more antibodies against it if it's encountered again.  

Our body can "learn" to attack those protein "spines" of lectins that may be stuck to cell surfaces.  To lessen the probability that the body will "learn" to attack other lectins in addition to the gluten lectin, avoiding all grains while the immune system is reacting to gluten is a great idea.  

Lectins can be irritating to the gastrointestinal system.   Lectins can stimulate IgE (allergic) reactions.  Lectins can cause mast cells to release histamine. Lectins can be difficult to digest.  Lectins can be fermented by gastrointestinal bacteria and yeasts, causing gas, bloating and diarrhea or constipation.  Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth and Candida overgrowth both have symptoms similar to Celiac Disease.  Corn lectins are more apt to be problematic than most other lectins.  

Avoiding lectins in the early stages of going gluten free can help reduce other gastrointestinal symptoms and speed up recovery.

I have a horrible response to corn, maize, zein.  I break out with Dermatitis Herpetiformis blisters if I consume corn or products made with corn derivatives.  

But, there's no gluten in corn or other grains.  Gluten and that 33-mer polypeptide are only in barley, wheat and rye.  And some breeds of oats.  

Try a low histamine, low carbohydrate, low Fodmap, grain free, Paleo diet like the Autoimmune Protocol Diet to see how much better you can feel.   It's not always gluten; the immune response is just going crazy.  

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1115436/

Edited March 14 by knitty kitty
Added link

[Beverage]

I went through issues with oats when first diagnosed. I thought I couldn't eat any oats at all, even certified gluten-free. Then I learned about purity protocol oats.

The list here has gotten smaller through the years, so I check it every time I order. I had been ordering one brand on the list that was later found to contain lower levels of gluten. I found that out after having just received a new order that did give me some light symptoms.

Apparently I can tolerate oats themselves, but not a low amount of gluten.

But I STRONGLY recommend first eliminating all oats for a few months before trying any of these

https://www.glutenfreewatchdog.org/news/oats-produced-under-a-gluten-free-purity-protocol-listing-of-suppliers-and-manufacturers/

 

 

[Toms]

Something to thing about:- Coeliac Australia supported a study into Oat Toxicity in Coeliacs and found that oats triggered an immune response in eight percent of the 73 people who participated in the study. The study was published in the November 2024, Journal of Autoimmunity.

[PA Painter]

I have non celiac sensitivity. I used to eat oatmeal with no problem. It causes a three day nightmare just as if it were wheat now. I seem to be an extremely sensitive case though.

[trents]

Welcome to the forum, @PA Painter!

Are the oats you are using either gluten free or GFCO certified gluten free?

It is not well-known but there are certain cultivars of oats that contain gluten. If you are using mainstream food industry oat brands there are two threats: 1. cross contamination from other grains containing gluten in the fields, in transport, in storage, in processing, etc. and 2. that gluten-containing cultivars of wheat were used.

And, yes, sensitivity levels can change over time.

Edited April 8 by trents

[PA Painter]

These were certified gluten free. I have a list of about 12 or so foods that do this.

[trents]

The do what? Give you a gluten-like reaction you mean?