Excessive Gas

[Canadian Karen]

One of the most prevalent symptoms I have is excessive gas, belching. There are some days where I am belching almost constantly. It even makes my throat and esophagas sore. I even get a pain in my back between my shoulder blades where it feels like the gas gets caught, and it can be quite painful.

Also, when I am at work, after lunch, I have to sneak into our boardroom and lie down on the floor for about 15-20 minutes and I can literally feel the gas moving through my system.

I have found taking acidophillis (sp?) helps to a certain extent, but only a little.

Has anyone found a better solution? I would be greatly appreciative of any suggestions out there!

Have a great day!

Karen

[tarnalberry]

Are you consuming dairy? Perhaps you are lactose intolerant?

[catfish]

Lactose is a good thought, it might also be fructuse (fruit sugar). For me, I get gas from vegetables like onions, cabbage and broccoli. Beano is a good solution to this problem; I take about 5 tablets with every serving of these vegetables. Also, taking a Gas-X before bedtime can be helpful.

[flagbabyds]

I would try sutting out lactose for a while see if that helps at all. otherwise go back to your doctor in a coupkle on months if you still don't feel better

[Newbie]

Hey there! I'm having the same problem.... I have to burp A LOT... and I used to barely ever have to burp before celiac... I haven't had the courage to cut out dairy yet.... but im taking a lactaid pill with my dairy... its not helping that much though. Any suggestions?

Thanks a lot!

[catfish]

I find that the tablets don't do much good for me. Try drinking Lactaid milk that has been pre-treated. If you still have problems, then it may be casien that is causing your problems; or maybe it's something else entirely.

[Canadian Karen]

What is casien? I have read it here quite often but have never heard of it. Is it an ingredient in something?

Thanks!

Karen

[tarnalberry]

Lactose is one of the main sugars found in milk. Casein is one of the main proteins found in milk.

Many people are lactose intolerant, and don't produce the enzyme that breaks down the sugar into its component sugars, so lactose reaches the bacteria of the gut intact, and is metabolised by the bacteria which produce gas as a by product. (And lots of it, in my experience! ;-) )

A number of people are allergic to casein, and their body recognizes that protein as a foreign substanct and produces an immune system response to it. (It's an IgE mediated response, and isn't damaging like celiac disease, but can cause all sorts of annoying symptoms.)

[burdee]

Karen and Newbee: Casein is milk protein. Lactose is milk sugar. If you have celiac disease, you might form antibodies to casein as well as gluten, so celiac challenged small intestines won't digest the milk protein either. If so, 'lactaid' supplements and lactaid milks won't help--those only help digest milk sugar. I used 'lactaid' to consume dairy for 10 years before going gluten-free. After 10 weeks of gluten-free I was still having symptoms, even while drinking lactaid milk and/or using lactaid everytime I had dairy. Yesterday my Enterolab results said 'antibodies to casein' (as well as gluten), so now I'm dairy free for at least a year (dairy) and gluten free for life. Some people can return to eating dairy, after going gluten-free/CF for a while, after their intestines heal a little, but not all. I also had acid reflux and lotsa burping, esp. after drinking my lactaid milk in my decaf in the morning. (I also used to occasionally get gas pain that radiated into my shoulder area. No more reflux or burping since I've been dairy free (4 days). YAY!!

Catfish: I've also used beano before eating brocolli, cauliflower, onions, beans and those other 'gassy' vegies. But I only use one tablet. Since I've been gluten-free, I sometimes forget to take beano and don't notice much difference. HMMM ... maybe it was gluten all along. But I'll continue the beano with the more 'musical' vegies, until I'm well healed from celiac symptoms (gas, bloating, cramping), so I'll know any reactions will be from those vegies and/or legumes.

BURDEE

[kalo]

So lets talk about intestinal symptoms. I've been very gassed up/boated/ichy etc. Guess it was always there but I'm noticing it more and it runs my day. I go number 2 all day long. Sometimes nothing comes out. Sometimes it's large sometimes it's the size of a small rock. Many times I have to help it come out. It's like I'm totally clogged up (all 30') and never get totally cleaned out. Sometimes I want to eat but don't think I should as it will just sit there and make me sicker. I feel it in my head as well and just double over and push on my stomache trying to massage it (the stomache not the head ). I really don't feel well and I wonder if it adds to the fatigue. I have had more energy this past week but my stomache has been bad and now I just want to sleep. I've been gluten-free for 6 weeks and CF (again as I did it before) for over a week with one slip up. Wondering if staying gluten-free/CF will eventually cure this or whether I really need to try the SCD diet which is much more strict. Any suggestions?

[judy04]

Kalo,

Have you ever tried fiber pills? I've been constipated a lot

since this disease got triggered, I also have hemmorrhoids

which showed up on my colonoscopy, so my gi doc suggested

fiber pills. You have to gradually increase the amount slowly

but I take 4-6 a day with a full glass of water, just make

sure they are the gluten-free ones. It works for me...

[kalo]

Thanks Judy. No I haven't tried fibre pills. Lets get specific . Are you able to go once a day and completely empty? That would sure be a dream. I've always felt that all 30 feet of intestines is clogged andmaking me very sick. I feel if throughout my body if that makes sence. I will try that. Also, if I don't do SCD I'm planning on doing the york allergy testing to see if there are other foods that may be causing me problems. Thanks so much.

[judy04]

Hi Kalo,

Yes,I manage to go at least once a day, maybe twice,

and I do feel empty. I hated that feeling before. As

my husband teases me when I have success in the

bathroom, you did a" masterpiece". I can't tell you

how much better I feel. Hope this helps

[kalo]

That is WONDERFUl. That would sure beat having to eleminate more food. I do have a little more energy. Any special fiber pills or just any? Start slow, I guess just one tablet. Will let you know how it works. How long did it take you? Thanks MUCH

[burdee]

OK, now that we're talking constipation and fiber ... that's what got me into my excruciating pain mess in the first place. I suspect my celiac symptoms had been constipation/gas/bloating/cramping all my life, but when my doc diagnosed 'IBS' and handed me the IBS constipation suggestions (which recommended lots of whole grains like wheat bran and stone ground whole wheat breads), I followed those recommendations with disastrous (painful) results, not knowing I had celiac all along. However, since going gluten-free I've had less and less 'fiber'. I've tried to consume fiber from fruits, vegies and some of the higher fiber gluten-free breads and cereals occasionally. But the less I had 'gluten slips', the less regularity problems I experienced ... to a point. Then I got my E-lab diagnosis which said NO DAIRY, so that eliminated milk for my high fiber cereals (I wasn't so sure about using soy milk at first). Nevertheless, eating only fruits and vegies (no high fiber gluten-free grains) didn't negatively affect regularity. In fact, the farther I get from my last milk ingestion and last gluten 'slip', the more my 'regularity' improves.

Meanwhile I have also taken magesium and vitamin C supplements for years, after reading those were often recommended in Germany for constipation problems. I also had hemorrhoids, but they became so bad, I had a hemorrhoidectomy in '99. After having that painful surgery and recovery period, I was almost paranoid about regularity. Fortunately avoiding gluten and casein helped resolve my constipation/bloating/pain symptoms. So I expect my intestines to eventually function as they're supposed to. It just keeps getting better!

[kalo]

So how long did it take to get regular? I've been gluten-free (with some mistakes at first but not obvious ones) for 6 weeks now. I went dairy free (again) a week and a half ago with a slip up on Monday when I ate some jack cheese. Are you now doing soy? I need to get back to taking magnesium. I started it for my fibromylagia and didn't really notice anything. Do you take it at night or during the day? And JUDY, when do you take your fiber. And with or w/o meals? I guess fiber is gluten-free? Thanks much.

[catfish]

Well, it is important to understand that there is not just one type of fiber! They are as different as night and day, and using the wrong kind of fiber can end up making things worse. There is soluble fiber and there is insoluble fiber;

Soluble fiber is found in such things as potatoes, bananas and rice (also in supplements like Citrucel). Soluble fiber is not a stimulant (won't cause your gut to contract) and thus doesn't have the laxative properties that insoluble fiber will, but since it absorbs and holds water it will help prevent constipation. It also helps prevent diarrhea because it provides bulk. It is considered to be more gentle on your intestines than insoluble fiber.

Insouble fiber can be found in foods like bran, apple skins and beans (and many different supplements). It is a stimulant and thus is often used as a laxative. But be warned that it can cause cramping due to this, and it also can cause gas because it ferments in the intestines. So if you are having problems with excessive gas, avoid insoluble fiber! If on the other hand you really need to go soon, then insoluble fiber may be the right choice.

[burdee]

This message is especially for Karen, who began this topic inquiring about excessive belching and gas:

Since going dairy free after a bad reaction from 1/4 cup of milk (after 36 dairy free hours), I realized this morning (5 days later) that I no longer have belching and instant reflux after meals. I used to experience continual 'esophogeal reversal' (my term to describe food moving the other way sponteously) after meals, if I bent over to pick up something, if I overate even a little, if I went to bed before 3-4 hours had elapsed after my last meal. I wouldn't call it 'acid' reflux, because bland, neutral foods came up the same way, as though I had NO digestive acids/enzmes sometimes. Acid foods (citrus, tomato) came up acid though. I threw up easily from MANY episodes of 'stomach flu' as a child and often developed dry heaves for long periods when I had stomach flu symptoms as an adult. HOWEVER, after going dairy free for 5 days, I no longer need to belch to rid gas from my stomach after a meal. I can bend over and pick up a bunch of spilled stuff on the floor immediately after consuming a big bowl of rice bran/quino flakes cereal with soy milk, peaches and nuts and some herbal tea (we're talking pretty full stomach with really creamy stuff) and NOTHING comes up.

I didn't realize how much dairy products affected me before going off them completely. I also am experiencing less of what I thought was totally celiac pain (cramping/bloating), am feeling MUCH more energetic (even after only 6 hours of sleep) and my 'regularity' problems are slowly disappearing. I'm actually discovering for the first time in my life what 'regular' or 'normal' means.

I never really liked to drink milk as a child ... I should have listened to my intuition and avoided all dairy when I first was forced to drink 'blue' (skim) milk at age 6 (my mom thought I was getting too 'fat' because of my bloated stomach). But my mom was right all along when she said cheese would make me constipated. Maybe she was speaking from experience, because she had a LOT of gas and bloating in later years and I have the celiac gene (she was never tested and never considered celiac). So many red flags (or should I say "white" for 'milk') were waving and I ignored them all until recently. Oh well, better late than never.

[kalo]

Hi Burdee. That's good news. How long was it before you noticed improvement?

[burdee]

Hey Carol: FIVE DAYS!!! The first 3 were HORRIBLE. Of course I had been gluten-free for almost 11 weeks, so everything else improved after eliminating dairy, too. Hang in there and avoid gluten and dairy 'like the plague', because our intestines think they are!

BURDEE

[Canadian Karen]

Hi Burdee,

Sounds like you are really on the right track!!

The last time I went to my gastro specialist, he did suggest I cut out dairy for 10 days to see if there was a difference. I noticed no change at all, so I went back on the milk (which I absolutely adore, I drink a ton of the stuff, always have, my Mom used to joke that she needed to buy a cow and put it out back just to keep me in milk!!!!)

But since my last attack (which was a fairly severe one), I have done much more researching into the gluten-free diet and have discovered several things that I have taken on a regular basis that in fact have gluten in them. First and foremost, I love my Bloody Caesar on the weekends, and have since found out that Clamato Juice contains gluten (verified by e-mail from company). Also, I am a big chinese food lover, and I never realized that soy sauce and teriyaki sauce both contain gluten. So those things right there suggest I have still given my body a regular dose of gluten. Now that I have been "totally researched" gluten-free for 1 month now, I am wondering if maybe I should try the dairy free option again (although it makes me almost want to cry thinking about it!!!)

I have another appt with my gastro specialist the end of July and he wants to do a colonoscopy again. Do you think I should try the milk free option again or wait until I see him?

Thanks for your input, you guys are really informative and it feels wonderful to read posts that sound so much like I am reading about myself, they are so similar. What surprised me the most was the posts that contained celiac, hypothyroidism and anemia, all things that I suffer from. Makes me feel better that I am not alone in battling this......

Have a great day!

Karen

[burdee]

Hey Karen:

When I said I'd been gluten-free for 11 weeks I should have written ATTEMPTING to be gluten-free. Every week persistent symptoms motivated me to do even more intensive gluten sleuthing which revealed: my deli turkey contained broth, cross contamination ran rampant through my own kitchen with shared condiments, cannisters which formerly contained wheat flour and crumby counters, and eventually I discovered gluten in my vitamins and toothpaste. Fortunately, I have a local celiac support group leader who kept telling me (when I was so hopeless and confused), "If you're still in pain, you're still consuming gluten." Well, she wasn't completely correct (since casein also caused problems), but her advice encouraged me to gluten sleuth, rather than host my own pity party, when I experienced yet another round of excruciating pain.

Like you I really resisted the thought of going dairy free. I believed that using 'lactaid' supplements protected me from 'dairy problems'. I did NOT want to give up dairy to which I felt even more 'addicted' than gluten (not just milk in lattes, but also ice cream, cheese, yogurt). I only tried a milk free period in anticipation of receiving my Enterolab results (with milk sensitivity test). I wondered what I would eat if I couldn't have dairy, so I gave myself 36 hours to find out. After that period, I thought going without dairy (esp. a little milk in my coffee) before I really knew casein was a problem (from E-lab results) was a little silly. So I really didn't expect to be blindsided with symptoms from a tiny bit of milk in my coffee after my milk free period. Knowing I was completely gluten-free when I had that reaction (which was initially different from gluten symptoms before turning into my more familiar gas/bloating/cramping pains) convinced me I couldn't consume dairy either (even with lactaid). My E-lab results actually said 'anti-casein antibody' which seems more serious than 'sensitive'.

When you said you 'cut out milk for 10 days' and 'noticed no change at all', were you absolutely gluten free then? My gluten and casein abdominal symptoms feel pretty similar except gluten feels like pieces of broken glass going through my intestines, but casein feels more like menstrual cramps, which should have ended with menopause 7 years ago. If you weren't gluten-free when you did your milk test, perhaps your recurring gluten-free symptoms masked any dairy avoidance improvement. If you have eliminated all sources of gluten and are still experiencing symptoms now, perhaps you might try another dairy free period. I don't know whether colonoscopies could detect casein sensitivity. (Enterolab diagnosed my 'casein antibodies' from stool sample analysis.) Maybe you could go DF before your colonoscopy appt. to see whether than reduces (or even eliminates) symptoms. If your body tells you casein is a problem, you can cancel the colonoscopy. If you still don't know, maybe the colonoscopy can help. I just don't know what that exam can show as far as gluten or casein sensitivity.

It was easier for me to give up gluten because there are so many great gluten-free substitutes. However, substituting soy for dairy didn't work for me. Perhaps I overloaded with soy or I wasn't completely healed from my last casein reaction, but I didn't do well with soy either. I hope after a few days, weeks, months? I can tolerate soy again. But I won't get my hopes up. If I've learned anything with celiac disease, it's not to get too dependent on any one kind of food. We are soooo blessed in this country to have such a variety and abundance of foods. In poorer countries people exist on between 3-5 kinds of foods daily, because nothing else is available to them. I'm learning to view food as merely a fuel and source of nourishment and hopefully healing for my body. I'm willing to trade a few food restrictions for unlimited health, wellness and vitality.

BURDEE

[j9n]

I am pretty sure I am having reactions to dairy as well. So instead of my coffee in the morning I am having green tea and honey. I did buy lactaid milk to make my bread with. Is all dairy bad? I read somewhere that goat cheese may be better than cow. This will be hard for me since I am such a cheese freak.

What does everyone eat for breakfast now? Eggs have always made me sick and I have never been able to eat cereal without getting nauseated. I am going to try rice cakes/peanut butter (salt free/no additives) and a banana with green tea.

I have been ill the past few days, boy is it exhausting. My son bought me a vanilla ice cream from Cold Stone. Either contamination or dairy or both. I should have known better but I was not happy and wanted a treat.

[burdee]

Hi Janine: In response to your question "Is all dairy bad?" ... That depends on whether you don't tolerate lactose (milk sugar) or casein (milk protein) or both. With merely lactose problems you can use lactaid milk and lactaid chewable tablets to digest dairy. With casein problems you need to avoid ALL dairy. However, I would suggest you completely eliminate ALL sources of gluten and then do a dairy free test (a few days to a week) to determine whether you have dairy problems. If lactaid milk/tablets don't prevent symptoms, you may have casein problems. Perhaps you can substute soy, rice, nut milks. I have only found ONE almond based cheese which doesn't contain casein (I currently can't tolerate soy either). Since I can't have dairy, don't tolerate soy, don't like nut or rice milks, for breakfast I eat nut butters (peanut, almond, cashew) on gluten free bread with jam and a piece of fruit plus herbal tea, or Jennie O Turkey Ham with my own gluten-free/CF date nut banana bread plus fruit or fruit salad with turkey or chicken (leftover from lunch). When/if I can tolerate soy again (I'm letting my body heal before trying it again), I'll use soy milk on cereal or soy yogurt with fruit, but that may not be for a while.

BURDEE

[judy04]

Carol,

Sorry that I didn't answer right away,we were away for

a few days. I agree that there are 2 kinds of fiber,

soluble and insoluble. I always start my day with some

type of soluble fiber, such as potatoes, applesauce, or

banana along with Citrucel tabs(gluten-free, not sure about the

powder). I take 2 tabs in am with a full glass of water

and 2 with each meal afterwards, always follow with the water!

I never put insoluble fiber on an empty stomach, can cause

gas or nausea. The fiber forms a gel that passes easily

through your intestine and you will have a "good" bowel

movement in 12-24 hours. My doc said to start 2tabs

per day and increase slowly.Like I said it works for

me. I also agree about dairy, I have to cut back or

do without because it gives me the same kind of

pain as gluten. I am going to get tested for dairy

when I go back to my Gastro Doc...