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cause&effect

Who Has Thyroid Issues

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Hi Ron,

I was diagnosed with an under-active thyroid 16 years ago. I'm female, 49, and thyroid conditions run in my family: my late mother, my younger son, my sister. My endocrinologist knew immediately when my bloodwork showed malabsorption of vitamins and minerals that it was Celiac disease and ordered the appropriate panel for that. He told me they go hand-in-hand as they are both auto-immune disorders; in the same way that diabetics are predisposed to other autoimmune diseases. Why your first endocrinoligist didn't know this right out of the gate, I can't say. Luckily it sounds like you're in good hands now. At first it was an overwhelming diet change, but it's really a no brainer considering the potential consequences. The folks here on the website clued me in about not eating dairy which I wasn't aware of, and that has also helped.

Good luck

Jebus (a.k.a. Ruthie)

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You are very fortunate Jebus to have an informed and proactive doctor. The Endo I saw first is the only one in my county. He recognized celiac and many of my other symptoms as a positive indicator for hypothyroid but he is very conservative and basicly said it's all up to the lab test results. Well that got the ball rolling anyway with the first round of test and no surprise the results which did not include a t3 level were not all normal but did not require treatment. My adrenal levels were off so another cortisol urine sample was ordered but no treatment was recomended. I'm now awaiting my third set of test and ultra sound results which do include t3 levels which were ordered by my new Endo. I won't be surprised if the lab numbers don't cry out for treatment, but I hope this Doc will treat the patient and the symptoms not the lab printout. She will prescribe Armour thyroid as the first endo would not even consider it that is a plus.

Seems to me anyone with unexplained lomg term stomach, fatigue, low energy, body temp and other unexplained symptoms should be sent for endocrine symptom testing. Six doctors later none ever even mentioned it.

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Here's a question, thyroid experts:

When I was five months old, I had temporary hyperthyroidism. After learning of gluten intolerance, I asked my mom if they had been feeding me wheat yet then, and she said no.

Later on, she told me that they had had me on a soy formula when I stopped growing. Soy. Which I also have problems with. (hand to forehead).

So, do you think my thyroid problem could have been brought on by the soy?

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So, do you think my thyroid problem could have been brought on by the soy?

I wouldn't be surprised. Is there a family history of Autoimmune Hypothyroidism in your family. Its genetic. But soy must never be given to babies and for adults it must be used in moderation. Its a goitronous food....

Since the late 1950's, it has been known that soy formulas contain anti-thyroid agents. Infants on soy formula are particularly vulnerable to developing autoimmune thyroid disease when exposed to high exposure of isoflavones over time. ( Breast and soy-formula feedings in early infancy and the prevalence of autoimmune thyroid disease in children. Fort P; Moses N; Fasano M; Goldberg T; Lifs$#&z F Department of Pediatrics, North Shore University Hospital-Cornell University Medical College, Manhasset, New York 11030. J Am Coll Nutr, 1990 Apr, 9:2, 164-7) This study found that the frequency of feedings with soy-based milk formulas in early life was noticeably higher in children with autoimmune thyroid disease, and thyroid problems were almost triple in those soy formula-fed children compared to their siblings and healthy unrelated children. Dr. Fitzpatrick even believes that long-term feeding with soy formulas inhibits TPO to such an extent that long-term elevated TSH levels can also raise the risk of thyroid cancer.

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/soydangers.htm

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I'm now awaiting my third set of test and ultra sound results which do include t3 levels which were ordered by my new Endo.

Don't you get tired of Drs that don't know what they are doing and keep repeating tests - when they could have done them all at the first appt. Make sure that T3 test is FREE T3, and that Antibodies were tested. If you are low on cortisol you will need HC supps as well as Armour.

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I wouldn't be surprised. Is there a family history of Autoimmune Hypothyroidism in your family. Its genetic. But soy must never be given to babies and for adults it must be used in moderation. Its a goitronous food....

Since the late 1950's, it has been known that soy formulas contain anti-thyroid agents. Infants on soy formula are particularly vulnerable to developing autoimmune thyroid disease when exposed to high exposure of isoflavones over time. ( Breast and soy-formula feedings in early infancy and the prevalence of autoimmune thyroid disease in children. Fort P; Moses N; Fasano M; Goldberg T; Lifs$#&z F Department of Pediatrics, North Shore University Hospital-Cornell University Medical College, Manhasset, New York 11030. J Am Coll Nutr, 1990 Apr, 9:2, 164-7) This study found that the frequency of feedings with soy-based milk formulas in early life was noticeably higher in children with autoimmune thyroid disease, and thyroid problems were almost triple in those soy formula-fed children compared to their siblings and healthy unrelated children. Dr. Fitzpatrick even believes that long-term feeding with soy formulas inhibits TPO to such an extent that long-term elevated TSH levels can also raise the risk of thyroid cancer.

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/soydangers.htm

Oh, wow. I don't believe there's a history of thyroid disease, but certainly of other autoimmune disorders, on both sides (diabetes and MS).

The thing is, I had hyper-thyroid. Can that still be caused by an autoimmune attack on the thyroid?

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Oh, wow. I don't believe there's a history of thyroid disease, but certainly of other autoimmune disorders, on both sides (diabetes and MS).

The thing is, I had hyper-thyroid. Can that still be caused by an autoimmune attack on the thyroid?

There are about 80 autoimmune diseases and they are often linked. I have 4 - Celiac, Hashimotos Thyroid, Pernicious Anaemia & Vitiligo. Have heard of others that have R Arthritis in the family, or Diabetes Type 1 for eg, and then they get Thyroid Antibodies.

There are 2 types of autoimmune thyroid that can make you go hyper that I know of. One is Graves Disease, and the other is Hashimotos. Graves is hyper all the time - Hashis swings between hypo and hyper. These 'swings' can be weeks , months, or years apart. Many Drs mistake the hyper swing of a Hashis patient as Graves Disease. Hashis is the more common and should always be suspected - even if hyper !

If you have autoimmune thyroid its even more important to get the right meds. You need to suppress the thyroid to stop it attacking itself- causing Goitres, nodules and cancers.

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There are about 80 autoimmune diseases and they are often linked. I have 4 - Celiac, Hashimotos Thyroid, Pernicious Anaemia & Vitiligo. Have heard of others that have R Arthritis in the family, or Diabetes Type 1 for eg, and then they get Thyroid Antibodies.

There are 2 types of autoimmune thyroid that can make you go hyper that I know of. One is Graves Disease, and the other is Hashimotos. Graves is hyper all the time - Hashis swings between hypo and hyper. These 'swings' can be weeks , months, or years apart. Many Drs mistake the hyper swing of a Hashis patient as Graves Disease. Hashis is the more common and should always be suspected - even if hyper !

If you have autoimmune thyroid its even more important to get the right meds. You need to suppress the thyroid to stop it attacking itself- causing Goitres, nodules and cancers.

Thanks so much for this information. I've had many thyroid tests over the years, but I know I've never had an antibody test. I dread going in to have it done, though...another "You're paranoid!" moment. Fortunately, I do have one Dr. who wants to monitor the nodule that I have. So maybe I'll bring it up with her and see what she has to say.

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Thanks so much for this information. I've had many thyroid tests over the years, but I know I've never had an antibody test. I dread going in to have it done, though...another "You're paranoid!" moment. Fortunately, I do have one Dr. who wants to monitor the nodule that I have. So maybe I'll bring it up with her and see what she has to say.

Yikes. A nodule isn't normal .... And you have never had an Antibodies test ? OMG :blink: Are you able to see another Dr cos it sounds like this one hasn't been taking good care of you. Armour meds are the best way to suppress Antibody attacks ( and nodules ). Watch that nodule. Without meds they sometimes can grow - often rapidly - and turn nasty.

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Yikes. A nodule isn't normal .... And you have never had an Antibodies test ? OMG :blink: Are you able to see another Dr cos it sounds like this one hasn't been taking good care of you. Armour meds are the best way to suppress Antibody attacks ( and nodules ). Watch that nodule. Without meds they sometimes can grow - often rapidly - and turn nasty.

Hmm. Yikes is right.

Actually, the Dr. wanted to send me for an ultrasound of the nodule. But I was broke and couldn't afford it at the time. When she checked it later, she said it was teeny tiny and she didn't think it had grown in the past 8 months. So I decided against the ultrasound then, too. But I think I will go back and have her check it again, and then see about ordering an antibody test before doing an ultrasound. Truthfully, I wouldn't mind experimenting with Armour, but I don't think any of the docs at student health would prescribe it for me. I'd have to find someone else who knew more about hidden thyroid problems, and here in Atlanta I wouldn't even know where to start looking.

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Truthfully, I wouldn't mind experimenting with Armour, but I don't think any of the docs at student health would prescribe it for me. I'd have to find someone else who knew more about hidden thyroid problems, and here in Atlanta I wouldn't even know where to start looking.

Is Cuming near you ? A Dr is on the Good Drs List from there. Depending on your tests you maynot need Armour, but its nice to have a Dr that gives the choice. Iodine is another area that you may want to research. Many areas of the world now are iodine deficient and iodized salt, and Kelp tabelts don't come close if you are deficient. There are urine tests to check your iodine health. And tablets or Iodine solution to boost. That can help slight Hypo as well. A naturopath may be the one to see for that.

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Is Cuming near you ? A Dr is on the Good Drs List from there. Depending on your tests you maynot need Armour, but its nice to have a Dr that gives the choice. Iodine is another area that you may want to research. Many areas of the world now are iodine deficient and iodized salt, and Kelp tabelts don't come close if you are deficient. There are urine tests to check your iodine health. And tablets or Iodine solution to boost. That can help slight Hypo as well. A naturopath may be the one to see for that.

That's very good advice! I don't even use iodized salt, actually, but I do eat seaweed like it's candy. I try to take kelp tablets, but often forget. I will check out the Dr. in Cuming and see what she's about...Cuming is a bit out of the way, but not too far for a good doc! I wonder if there are OTC iodine tests online?

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One Iodine test I have heard of that is a bit of a laymans test but can tell a bit - is to paint iodine on your arm - and see how long it takes to disappear. The theory is that if you are deficient you soak it up faster :lol:

You may like to research Iodoral Tablets. http://healthnatura.com/art_how_to_use_iodoral.htm I am not sure who can order the iodine test for you. My Dr did for me - she is a naturopath as well.

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Guest adamssa

hey, is at possible to have pretty severe thyroid symptoms, and still come up normal with the standard thyroid test? i had the standard one done, came up normal. so i just also had the TSH, Free T3, T4, Reverse T3, Antithyroglobulin, and Anti-thyroid hormone. done and am waiting for the results. somewhat nervously...just wish i knew what was going on. i know i have low blood sugar, but i also have really poor coordination, poor short term memory, and ridicolously bad C, ridicolosuly bad brain fog, and also have been having this strange anxiety like feeling at times, very unusual for me. i know that eating for low blood sugar seems to improve though if it's enough i don't know. also sometimes i can eat sugar and feel fine...i wonder if mine isn't caused by thyroid? i also started self-medicating with some herbs and that cut the anxiety feelings down dramatically right away. oh, do i wish i had mental clarity, especially for my exam later today...

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hey, is at possible to have pretty severe thyroid symptoms, and still come up normal with the standard thyroid tes

Sometimes. I had extreme thyroid symptoms this year and all tests were normal until they did an Antibodies test. That showed a borderline reading of 35 which didn't relate at all to my extreme symptoms. And 10% of people never show ANY antibodies when they have Hashimotos ! How are your temps ? They are often a good way to track thyroid and adrenals. www.drrind.com

I used to eat sugar and drink coffee all the time before because my body seemed to crave it. Don't need those fixes now - can easily skip a meal or a coffee ! I have heard others say this too. Once they get onto Armour Thyroid - they don't need the sugar or caffeine fixes each day !

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Sometimes. I had extreme thyroid symptoms this year and all tests were normal until they did an Antibodies test. That showed a borderline reading of 35 which didn't relate at all to my extreme symptoms. And 10% of people never show ANY antibodies when they have Hashimotos ! How are your temps ? They are often a good way to track thyroid and adrenals. www.drrind.com

I used to eat sugar and drink coffee all the time before because my body seemed to crave it. Don't need those fixes now - can easily skip a meal or a coffee ! I have heard others say this too. Once they get onto Armour Thyroid - they don't need the sugar or caffeine fixes each day !

How'd you get your doctor to prescribe you Armour on a "trial" type basis? I'd like to try it but not sure how to get this to happen... Thanks!

~K

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How'd you get your doctor to prescribe you Armour on a "trial" type basis? I'd like to try it but not sure how to get this to happen... Thanks!

~K

There was no 'trial' at all. Basically - I had severe swallowing problems this year. Went to my reg GP and she said Goitre wasn't too bad, and did a TSH test, and ordered some stomach tests for reflux (!). About this time I found stopthethyroidmadness. I then went back and demanded ALL the thyroid tests. She got angry but did it. I thought she did it. When they came back they were still 'normal'. Got home and found she had STILL not done Antibodies as per STTM. So... as she was so aggro last time I changed Drs to city Dr from Mary Shoman's site. He did Antibodies test, and ordered an ultrasound. But then he got confused as the # of antibodies was only 35. Went to Dr #3 , and hit gold. She has Hashis herself ! Refuses to use Synthroid at all ! Had a scathing remark about our local Endo etc. She is 'one of us' !!!!!She immed dx me based on nodules all through my thyroid, symptoms and borderline blood test. She KNOWS that blood tests don't tell all the story.

I started on T3 as that's what she does. After 6 weeks wasn't much better so asked for and got Armour. STTM just kept telling me it works better. And it did !

One tip you may like to use. Always keep a day to day diary of symptoms, temps,activities etc to take to your Dr. Foggy brain at a Drs appt is NOT what you want as you forget to tell them everything. The day before an appt - make a summary and read that to Dr. Have temp charts printed. Since starting Armour 5 months ago I have done all that, BP reading ( going down) , chol going down ( 0.9 ) ,hypoglycemia gone etc. Its PROOF to the Dr. You can see the temps rising and hypo symptoms going away. There is a pdf on armour website for Drs. 120 mg - 180 mg is the normal dose. Print that too. Take heaps of printouts :lol:

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Georgie,

I'll try to work that angle...thanks! I could not have thyroid issues, but it just seems like a good candidate for my symptoms. I got serious reflux too, are they connected? Could be adrenals...I'll get that checked out prolly. Can you feel the nodules or did you have a test done for that? Thanks again!

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I'm so glad I found this thread!! I have been thinking about my dd's thyroid test results and want to know what you all tihnk. She was tested at age 2 when we were trying to figure out what was wrong with her. Her TSH was 2.75 and that is all that was run. We thought she may have a thyroid problem because her hair was falling out as you can see in my avatar.

They said she was fine so we just put her on the gluten-free diet anyway (her celiac blood tests were neg.) and she seemed to get better. Her hair is still thin though and she still has dry skin and VERY cold hands and feet. Should she be re-tested?

Thank you for any advice.

Shannon

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Can you feel the nodules or did you have a test done for that?
They showed up when I had the ultrasound. I couldn't feel them , although I had a Goitre and that felt like a lump in my throat.

I'm so glad I found this thread!! I have been thinking about my dd's thyroid test results and want to know what you all tihnk. She was tested at age 2 when we were trying to figure out what was wrong with her. Her TSH was 2.75 and that is all that was run. We thought she may have a thyroid problem because her hair was falling out as you can see in my avatar.

They said she was fine so we just put her on the gluten-free diet anyway (her celiac blood tests were neg.) and she seemed to get better. Her hair is still thin though and she still has dry skin and VERY cold hands and feet. Should she be re-tested?

Absolutely. My Dr treats TSH >2 as HypoThyroid. And you haven't even had Freet4, Free T3 and Antibodies tested. Based on your symptoms and TSH so far I would say that you need to check this out. The yahoo list I am on has a photo section for all the lovely long thick hair that regrows once you get onto Armour. Many of these people were on Synthroid and still losing hair, and then made the switch and were able to have shoulder length hair again. Mine is great already. Its back to the colour it was when I was a teen. Really bright and vibrant and glossy.

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Absolutely. My Dr treats TSH >2 as HypoThyroid. And you haven't even had Freet4, Free T3 and Antibodies tested. Based on your symptoms and TSH so far I would say that you need to check this out. The yahoo list I am on has a photo section for all the lovely long thick hair that regrows once you get onto Armour. Many of these people were on Synthroid and still losing hair, and then made the switch and were able to have shoulder length hair again. Mine is great already. Its back to the colour it was when I was a teen. Really bright and vibrant and glossy.

I really can't believe that my dd was brushed off by medical professionals the way she was. We saw so many drs. and no one knew what was wrong with her. They tested her TSH and her celiac panel and then sent us on to a psychologist and psychiatrist. Like they could do anything to fix the fact that her hair was falling out and she was unable to grow. She has put on weight, but is still quite short for her age. She has now made it onto the growth chart and is at the 5th percentile. She is almost 4 years old now. Her hair has pretty much stopped falling out and has come back in pretty well, but it is still thin and it really hasn't grown much at all in length. She has not really ever had much of a haircut and her hair is only shoulder-length.

I am just in shock that this could have been her problem all this time. It has been over a year and a half since she had her TSH tested. It was the University of Iowa who did all of this testing and they are supposed to be so great...

Thanks for listening to me vent. I am going to have to call her dr. after Christmas and get some more testing done.

Does anyone know of a GOOD dr. in Iowa for this type of problem?

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I am just in shock that this could have been her problem all this time. It has been over a year and a half since she had her TSH tested. It was the University of Iowa who did all of this testing and they are supposed to be so great..

I truly hope this can help your DD. The poor thing - so young. I can understand your shock but your story is repeated 1000s of times and its really sad. I simply can't believe that they didn't do all the Thyroid tests. The STTM site may be able to help with you finding a decent Dr. They are really helpful on so many things. I could ask for you or it may be easier for you to jump straight in like I did. They have a childrens forum. I had a Prof from our Uni test me 10 years ago and he didn't do all the tests either and failed to dx my autoimmune Thyroid. Weird - isn't it ! :blink:

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One way to find a Dr that understands Thyroid is to ask a compounding chemist in your area which Drs use Armour. This is how I found my Dr. They seem to know Drs that are working well in that area.

http://www.project-aware.org/Resource/Pharm.shtml

And I think the Broda Barnes Comp - has a list on its web site too of Drs that are using their methods.

http://www.brodabarnes.org/

Hope this helps a bit. :)

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I've had hypothyroidism since I was 12 (I am 20 now) and I'm just starting a gluten-free diet to see if this is something I truly do have or if my symptoms are just there for no reason. Today was my 2nd day gluten-free and so far so good I think!

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Here is some info I found very helpful and very informative from Dr. Rind's web site, he specializes in metabolic and edocrine disorders. I suggest you click on the link posted below to see the full graphic chart. I tried to copy and transfer it but only the text would transfer so it's not easy to read.

It became clearer to me that many of my problems are related to adrenal insufinciency and low thyroid which I had long suspected but no Doctor had been able to recognize. There is a great deal more info on his site that explain Thyroid test readings, body tempreture abnormalities and much more.

I'll be heading to my third Endo appointment next week with this source of info and hope she will be receptive. :(

http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp

Signs and Symptoms: Adrenal Fatigue vs. Low Thyroid Function

Key: - generally absent; +possibly present; ++ often present;

+++ always or almost always present

Signs and Symptoms

Adrenal > Mixed (1) < Thyroid

Body Type Thin, can't gain weight > Gains easily,goes to tummy/hips first, very hard to lose < Weight gain, generalized or global, extremely hard to lose

Face Shape Eyes, cheeks sunken when severe Normal Full, puffy around eyes

Eyebrows Tend to be full Normal to sparse Very sparse outer 1/3 to 1/2

Tissue Around eyes Sunken appearance, may have dark circles Normal or some "bags" under the eyes Puffy around the eyes, often bags under the eyes

Facial Coloring (2) Tendency to pallor, especially around mouth. In dark skin, it darkens around mouth, forehead, sides of face Pallor around mouth (more visible with light skin) Ruddy or rosy complexion, including around the mouth

Hair quality Thin and wispy. May become straw-like or straighter. Dry. Falls out easily. Sparse on forearms or lower legs. Tendency to become sparse Tends to be coarse, sparse, may become wavy or curly (rare) or change color

Nails Thin, brittle Break easily May be thick

Skin Quality Dry, Thin, Finger-prints often "smoothed out" or flat/shiny and may have longitudinal wrinkles over finger pads (probable cause is low collagen level) May be thin, dry, bruise easily, poor healing. Poor healing, May bruise easily. Skin thickness is normal (not thin)

Pigment Distribution Vitiligo (white spots or patches) in late stage. May tan too easily. In dark skin, darker on forehead, sides of face, around mouth and chin/jaw. Milder version of vitiligo (tiny white spots on arms and/or legs) and dark patches if dark skin. In pure hypothyroidism, vitiligo and hyperpigmentation are very rare.

Connective Tissue Quality (ligaments, tendons, skin, hair, and nails) Lax ligaments or flexible (e.g. flat feet, double jointed). Joint strains/sprains are common. Mixed Poor flexibility.

Fluids/Secretions Dry skin, little secretions. Can't hold on to water. Mixed, e.g. and dry body and oily face Good secretions. Skin may be oily. Tendency to fluid retention.

Light Sensitivity or Night Blindness ++ + -

After Image (e.g. seeing the image of a flash bulb or bright light moving by longer than others) ++ + +/-

Typical Pains Headaches, migraines, muscles, carpal tunnel Muscles, carpal tunnel Occasionally joints, muscles, feet/lower legs

Temperature Pattern (see Metabolic Temperature Graph) Thermal chameleon (hot when it's warm and cold when it's cool). Poor thermoregulation. Tends to low body temperature around 97.8 or lower. Fluctuating pattern. Fluctuating pattern, usually averaging 97.8 but can be lower Stable, non-fluctuating pattern, average can be from low 90's to a little below 98.6

Cold Intolerance +++ ++ +/-

Heat Intolerance + ++ +++

Cold Hands / Feet +++ Happens often -

Warm Hands / Feet (in spite of low body temperature) - Happens occasionally ++

Sweating May be excessive in early phase. Poor sweating in late phase. May appear normal Normal to increased, more oily than 'wet'

General Reactivity: Emotional, physiological, etc. Hyper-reactive (over) Moderate Hypo-reactive (under)

Immune Function Tendency to over-react results in allergies, sensitivities, autoimmune problems Mixed Tendency to under-respond results in infections (sinus, bladder, bowel, skin, etc.)

History of EBV or Mononucleosis +++ ++ +/-

Sensitivity to medications, supplements etc. Needs small doses ++ + -

Intuitive (3). Picks up other peoples feelings (e.g. at malls, parties). ++ + +/-

Personality Tendency: Humor +/- + ++

Personality Tendency: Serious ++/+++ ++ +/-

Depression + ++ +++

Anxiety, panic attacks, worry, fear, insecurity, feelings of impending doom (any combination). "I thought I was dying..." +++ ++ +

Obsessive Compulsive ++ + +/-

Startle Easily ++ + -

Tolerance to Change/Stress Poor Poor/Moderate Moderate

Sleep Patterns Tendency to one or more: Insomnia, light sleeper, waking up at 2-4 AM, unrefreshing sleep May or may not have sleep disturbance Tendency to one or more: Sleepiness, narcolepsy, sleep apnea, unrefreshing sleep

Mental Abilities Poor focus, clarity, concentration, short-term memory. 'Brain fog' Poor focus, clarity, concentration, short-term memory. Poor focus, clarity, concentration, short-term memory.

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