Jump to content

  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.



  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):

    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):

  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

Fingerprints And Celiac Disease/gluten Intolerance

Lovelycherry

Recommended Posts

caek-is-a-lie Explorer
caek-is-a-lie
Posted
the only thing that makes me feel worse than folks who have been failed by the system -- is people who have been failed by the system and turn to pseudoscience.

Ummm...I believe the link to the scientific paper that I provided was real science, not pseudoscience. I think there would be a few ticked off PhD's if they heard you calling their legitimate work 'pseudoscience.' I also believe their conclusion was that the fingerprints can be used in conjunction with other methods to accurately assess the improvement of Celiacs on a gluten-free diet. They did, after all, provide proof that Celiac fingerprints return to normal over time on a gluten-free diet. And the intermediate photos showed a lot more horizontal white lines than the fully recovered picture in the same patient. :)

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):


  • Replies 61
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Jestgar Rising Star
Jestgar
Posted
Ummm...I believe the link to the scientific paper that I provided was real science, not pseudoscience.

The paper you referenced is almost 40 years old. It may have been accurate for it's time, but science has advanced quite a bit. Have you seen anything from the last 5 years or so?

Here's one from 1974 that discounts that paper, and cites others that have also discounted that paper.

Open Original Shared Link

caek-is-a-lie Explorer
caek-is-a-lie
Posted
The paper you referenced is almost 40 years old. It may have been accurate for it's time, but science has advanced quite a bit. Have you seen anything from the last 5 years or so?

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Both support using fingerprints as a diagnostic clue in Celiac patients.

Plus I found 7 additional papers from the 1970's that discovered the same thing as the newer studies. That was just one basic PubMed search that took me 10 seconds. I believe the scientific method was the same then as it is now, and journal submissions were still pier-reviewed, so I don't see how "old" science is any worse than "new" science, especially since so many "old" papers are still referenced in newer publications all the time, and 9 different labs came to the same conclusions. If their methods were sound and their work is repeatable, why would the year it was discovered make such a huge difference? I wasn't aware that scientific discoveries expired after 10 or 20 years, but believe what you like. I just hope people don't say that about my work in 30 years just because of the date of publication.

Jestgar Rising Star
Jestgar
Posted
I believe the scientific method was the same then as it is now, and journal submissions were still pier-reviewed, so I don't see how "old" science is any worse than "new" science, especially since so many "old" papers are still referenced in newer publications all the time, and 9 different labs came to the same conclusions.

Not "old", just may not be as complete, since newer methods are available for testing.

The papers you referenced actually addressed patterns, not lines, and stated that they were neither sensitive, nor specific.

Due to its low sensitivity (55.6%) and specificity (69.4%) considering the presence of four or more whorls, it is not useful as a screening or as a method itself, for the diagnosis of celiac disease.
caek-is-a-lie Explorer
caek-is-a-lie
Posted

Look, I posted the original article because the YouTube video was gone and some of us wanted to know what the white lines look like. It helps us all know if we're talking about the same thing or not. I'm not saying this is how you diagnose Celiac. Of course not. Sure there's a good debate here about how valid the results are, although I doubt this thread is the best place to do that, but please understand why I posted this 'old' article. It had good pictures in it about the topic of this thread. That's all. It's not pseudoscience and I don't think its age made those references any less valid for the conversation. It sure was an interesting thread to begin with but it seems to have digressed quite a bit.

Jestgar Rising Star
Jestgar
Posted

OK. I'm just being cantankerous. I personally don't think there's any validity to it, but that doesn't mean it isn't fun to talk about. I'll just shut up.

Puddy Explorer
Puddy
Posted
Look, I posted the original article because the YouTube video was gone and some of us wanted to know what the white lines look like. It helps us all know if we're talking about the same thing or not. I'm not saying this is how you diagnose Celiac. Of course not. Sure there's a good debate here about how valid the results are, although I doubt this thread is the best place to do that, but please understand why I posted this 'old' article. It had good pictures in it about the topic of this thread. That's all. It's not pseudoscience and I don't think its age made those references any less valid for the conversation. It sure was an interesting thread to begin with but it seems to have digressed quite a bit.

Just as an aside......the YouTube video is still up and I watched it about 20 minutes ago.

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):


gfb1 Rookie
gfb1
Posted
OK. I'm just being cantankerous.

heh, heh... me too, i suppose... :)

jeez... i go away for a day or two and i'm much more relaxed..

anyway. i concur with jestgar. there is NO validity to fingerprints, little white lines, the assorted diets that have been mentioned (except, of course, for the gluten-free diet...).

while the aforementioned articles are NOT pseudoscience (though the diets certainly are); several, as i pointed out in earlier posts, are bad science.

but, if it floats your boat....

btw... being ticked off is a normal state of affairs for Ph.D.'s. anybody who participates in a profession where they are only successful 6-10% of the time (grants and peer-reviewed papers) spends a lot of time being cranky. :)

  • 9 months later...
caleonard Newbie
caleonard
Posted

I just joined this forum and already I am very disappointed with it. There seem to be a few members that have a lot of negativity towards differing ideas and opinions.

I have followed the Blood Type diet (BTD) and now the Genotype diet (GTD), and along the way discovered that I am non-celiac gluten-sensitive. So the Genotype diet for me really fits with what I need to eat to be healthy. I also wanted to understand these diets better as I won't just blindly follow the latest diet craze. So I have read a lot of the scientific articles behind the BTD and GTD and I don't see any indication of "pseudoscience," rather I see a lot of thoughtful and insightful research and then a ground-breaking interpretation of that research. New ideas are often met with scorn because it means you have to really think about them and look into them to understand them or accept them and that takes a lot of work and time, which many of us would just rather not give, but that is okay.

I'm not saying everyone has to accept a new concept or that they must do research about it. However if that new concept has really helped someone and worked for them, who are you to tell them they are mistaken? I would not be where I am today without following the BTD/GTD and no one has the right to tell me otherwise.

I am distressed that some people on this board are using the term "pseudoscience" as a way to put down something with which they don't agree. I also really object to calling someone a "quack." Just because you haven't done the work of looking at that person's research, doesn't mean you can be rude about it. Lots of people do research into many different areas. Is it okay to call someone a "quack" just because you disagree with them? I don't see a lot of facts behind these negative statements, only emotions.

Please keep the terms "quack" and "pseudoscience" out of these conversations. Those terms are basically negative emotional reactions to something you don't agree with and are very disturbing to me. You can disagree with something; everyone has that right, but you don't have the right to call the thing you disagree with by negative names.

Fiddle-Faddle Community Regular
Fiddle-Faddle
Posted

Welcome, Caleonard!

You've made some very good points--but did you mean to post them on an 8-month-old thread?

Anyway, as long as you've resurrected the thread, I'll throw in my two cents. There is some evidence that nutritional deficiencies can cause differences in the fingernails, and if you google "nutritional deficiencies and skin," there are tons of articles on deficiencies in vitamins A and E and corresponding skin signs. We also know that gluten-induced autoimmune reactions can cause eczema and dermatitis herpetiformis.

So I don't think it's a major stretch to think that nutritional deficiencies and/or gluten-induced autoimmune reactions can affect the fingerprint in some measurable way.

I was unable to find any studies on the internet relating to this. But I think it would be a great research project for someone to undertake! In fact, I may suggest it to a few young scientists I know!

Again, welcome aboard--please stay awhile!

camprunner Apprentice
camprunner
Posted

This happened to me, too. I used to work for the school district, and had to be fingerprinted as part of my background check. I had to do the fingerprint part twice, since they couldn't get a good reading the first time.

I had no idea there could be some kind of link.

This is me. I don't actually live in the state I work in. I had to drive 2 1/2 hours each way to get them electronically done in that state because the the ink ones done at my local police department weren't readable :( I also didn't realize it could be linked

camprunner Apprentice
camprunner
Posted

This happened to me, too. I used to work for the school district, and had to be fingerprinted as part of my background check. I had to do the fingerprint part twice, since they couldn't get a good reading the first time.

I had no idea there could be some kind of link.

This is me. I don't actually live in the state I work in. I had to drive 2 1/2 hours each way to get them electronically done in that state because the the ink ones done at my local police department weren't readable :( I also didn't realize it could be linked

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Celiac.com:
    Join eNewsletter
    Donate
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):
    Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):



    Celiac.com Sponsors (A17-M):



  • Recent Activity

    1. knitty kitty
      - knitty kitty replied to lizzie42's topic in Post Diagnosis, Recovery & Treatment of Celiac Disease
      4

      Son's legs shaking

      Yes, I do think they need a Thiamine supplement at least. Especially since they eat red meat only occasionally. Most fruits and vegetables are not good sources of Thiamine. Legumes (beans) do contain thiamine. Fruits and veggies do have some of the other B vitamins, but thiamine B 1 and Cobalamine B12 are mostly found in meats. Meat, especially organ...
    2. lizzie42
      - lizzie42 replied to lizzie42's topic in Post Diagnosis, Recovery & Treatment of Celiac Disease
      4

      Son's legs shaking

      Thank you! That's helpful. My kids eat very little processed food. Tons of fruit, vegetables, cheese, eggs and occasional red meat. We do a lot of rice and bean bowls, stir fry, etc. Do you think with all the fruits and vegetables they need a vitamin supplement? I feel like their diet is pretty healthy and balanced with very limited processed food....
    3. Scott Adams
      - Scott Adams replied to Russ H's topic in Celiac Disease Pre-Diagnosis, Testing & Symptoms
      1

      Anti-endomysial Antibody (EMA) Testing

      That is interesting, and it's the first time I heard about the umbilical cord beings used for that test. Thanks for sharing!
    4. knitty kitty
      - knitty kitty replied to lizzie42's topic in Post Diagnosis, Recovery & Treatment of Celiac Disease
      4

      Son's legs shaking

      @lizzie42, You're being a good mom, seeking answers for your son. Cheers! Subclinical thiamine deficiency commonly occurs with anemia. An outright Thiamine deficiency can be precipitated by the consumption of a high carbohydrate meal. Symptoms of Thiamine deficiency include feeling shakey or wobbly in the legs, muscle weakness or cramps...
    5. Scott Adams
      - Scott Adams replied to Paulaannefthimiou's topic in Gluten-Free Foods, Products, Shopping & Medications
      2

      Bob red mill gluten free oats

      Oats naturally contain a protein called avenin, which is similar to the gluten proteins found in wheat, barley, and rye. While avenin is generally considered safe for most people with celiac disease, some individuals, around 5-10% of celiacs, may also have sensitivity to avenin, leading to symptoms similar to gluten exposure. You may fall into this...
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):

  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      132,869
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748
    MaryannHall
    Newest Member
    MaryannHall
    Joined
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121.5k
    • Total Posts
      1m
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):

  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • knitty kitty
      Son's legs shaking

      By knitty kitty · Posted

      Yes, I do think they need a Thiamine supplement at least. Especially since they eat red meat only occasionally. Most fruits and vegetables are not good sources of Thiamine.  Legumes (beans) do contain thiamine.  Fruits and veggies do have some of the other B vitamins, but thiamine B 1 and  Cobalamine B12 are mostly found in meats.  Meat, especially organ meats like liver, are the best sources of Thiamine, B12, and the six other B vitamins and important minerals like iron.   Thiamine has antibacterial and antiviral properties.  Thiamine is important to our immune systems.  We need more thiamine when we're physically ill or injured, when we're under stress emotionally, and when we exercise, especially outside in hot weather.  We need thiamine and other B vitamins like Niacin B 3 to keep our gastrointestinal tract healthy.  We can't store thiamine for very long.  We can get low in thiamine within three days.  Symptoms can appear suddenly when a high carbohydrate diet is consumed.  (Rice and beans are high in carbohydrates.)  A twenty percent increase in dietary thiamine causes an eighty percent increase in brain function, so symptoms can wax and wane depending on what one eats.  The earliest symptoms like fatigue and anxiety are easily contributed to other things or life events and dismissed.   Correcting nutritional deficiencies needs to be done quickly, especially in children, so their growth isn't stunted.  Nutritional deficiencies can affect intelligence.  Vitamin D deficiency can cause short stature and poor bone formation.   Is your son taking anything for the anemia?  Is the anemia caused by B12 or iron deficiency?  
    • lizzie42
      Son's legs shaking

      By lizzie42 · Posted

      Thank you! That's helpful. My kids eat very little processed food. Tons of fruit, vegetables, cheese, eggs and occasional red meat. We do a lot of rice and bean bowls, stir fry, etc.  Do you think with all the fruits and vegetables they need a vitamin supplement? I feel like their diet is pretty healthy and balanced with very limited processed food. The only processed food they eat regularly is a bowl of Cheerios here and there.  Could shaking legs be a symptom of just a one-time gluten exposure? I guess there's no way to know for sure if they're getting absolutely zero exposure because they do go to school a couple times a week. We do homeschool but my son does a shared school 2x a week and my daughter does a morning Pre-K 3 x a week.  At home our entire house is strictly gluten free and it is extremely rare for us to eat out. If we eat at someone else's house I usually just bring their food. When we have play dates we bring all the snacks, etc. I try to be really careful since they're still growing. They also, of course, catch kids viruses all the time so I  want to make sure I know whether they're just sick or they've had gluten. It can be pretty confusing when they're pretty young to even be explaining their symptoms! 
    • Scott Adams
      Anti-endomysial Antibody (EMA) Testing

      By Scott Adams · Posted

      That is interesting, and it's the first time I heard about the umbilical cord beings used for that test. Thanks for sharing!
    • knitty kitty
      Son's legs shaking

      By knitty kitty · Posted

      @lizzie42, You're being a good mom, seeking answers for your son.  Cheers! Subclinical thiamine deficiency commonly occurs with anemia.  An outright Thiamine deficiency can be precipitated by the consumption of a high carbohydrate meal.   Symptoms of Thiamine deficiency include feeling shakey or wobbly in the legs, muscle weakness or cramps, as well as aggression and irritability, confusion, mood swings and behavior changes.  Thiamine is essential to the production of neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine which keep us calm and rational.   @Jsingh, histamine intolerance is also a symptom of Thiamine deficiency.  Thiamine is needed to prevent mast cells from releasing histamine at the slightest provocation as is seen in histamine intolerance.  Thiamine and the other B vitamins and Vitamin C are needed to clear histamine from the body.  Without sufficient thiamine and other B vitamins to clear it, the histamine builds up.  High histamine levels can change behavior, too.  High histamine levels are found in the brains of patients with schizophrenia.  Thiamine deficiency can also cause extreme hunger or conversely anorexia.   High carbohydrate meals can precipitate thiamine deficiency because additional thiamine is required to process carbohydrates for the body to use as fuel.  The more carbohydrates one eats daily, the more one needs additional thiamine above the RDA.  Thiamine is water soluble, safe and nontoxic even in high doses. Keep in mind that gluten-free processed foods like cookies and such are not required to be fortified and enriched with vitamins and minerals like their gluten containing counterparts are.  Limit processed gluten-free foods.  They are often full of empty calories and unhealthy saturated fats and additives, and are high in histamine or histamine release triggers.  It's time you bought your own vitamins to supplement what is not being absorbed due to malabsorption of Celiac disease.  Benfotiamine is a form of Thiamine that has been shown to improve intestinal health as well as brain function. Do talk to your doctors and dieticians about supplementing with the essential vitamins and minerals while your children are growing up gluten free.  Serve nutritionally dense foods.  Meats and liver are great sources of B vitamins and minerals. Hope this helps!  Keep us posted on your progress!
    • Scott Adams
      Bob red mill gluten free oats

      By Scott Adams · Posted

      Oats naturally contain a protein called avenin, which is similar to the gluten proteins found in wheat, barley, and rye. While avenin is generally considered safe for most people with celiac disease, some individuals, around 5-10% of celiacs, may also have sensitivity to avenin, leading to symptoms similar to gluten exposure. You may fall into this category, and eliminating them is the best way to figure this out. Some people substitute gluten-free quinoa flakes for oats if they want a hot cereal substitute. If you are interested in summaries of scientific publications on the topic of oats and celiac disease, we have an entire category dedicated to it which is here: https://www.celiac.com/celiac-disease/oats-and-celiac-disease-are-they-gluten-free/   
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

NOTICE: This site places This site places cookies on your device (Cookie settings). on your device. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use, and Privacy Policy.