At A Loss

[fedora]

I am on a very basic diet to try to help with joint and muscle pain. Just fruit, fish, veggies, and rice. Now I am going off the rice. I have been off gluten for 2.5 months) I am not getting better, but it hasn't been that long. I am eating no corn, sweeteners, nightshades, soy, dairy, gluten, legumes, nuts. I was pain free for about 6 weeks, it was wonderful. Then I got real sick(I think dairy and almonds) and it kicked back in real hard. That was over 2 weeks ago. The pain is still here. Also I go out of joint(my shoulder and knee and spine) very easily. During the time I was pain free, I was accidentally getting miniscule gluten I found out, so don't know if gluten is causing this or not. I am being so careful now.

How long should I eat like this? How long does it take to see results on a very basic diet. I don't know how long I can. I am eating all day long and have lost a little weight. I am not underweight, so it is okay for now.

My digestion has been much better since going off gluten, with just some bad episodes thrown in there.

If this doesn't work I am going in for more blood work.

Thanks for any advice. I am sick of hurting.

[curlyfries]

I can only speak for myself, but my fibromyalgia does a lot better on a high protein, low carb diet. It seems you got worse when you took away more of what little protein you do get. I take it you can't eat meat? Or is it a personal choice?

[fedora]

The little meat I eat is a mixture of personal choice and my ability to digest it. It has been so long since I ate beef or pork I find the though revolting. At 10 the first time I got horribly ill was after eating pork. No one else got sick either. When I started to feel better at 13 I had given up all meet cause I didn't want to eat animals. I ate meat on and off as a teenager until I was 19 and then gave it up for many years. I figured out at 27 that I had to give up wheat. I started eating some fish and poultry but not much. I always thought I couldn't handle pork and beef, but now see also that I got better when a lot of celiacs go into teenage remission. I am 32 now.

I wanted to eat less soy to see if that helped me, I started eating almonds. That didn't help. In fact my arms started hurting really bad.

I have been eating lots of fish. A lot more than usual. I am getting protein, just not from the soy, peanut, dairy, legume sources I was getting them from.

I will definately keep the low carb/ high protein in mind. I have been eating lots of rice and am not sure if that is okay. So I will cut that out too. Other than that I had some sweet potato last night and this morning. No other big carbs. Thank you.

[curlyfries]

Another thought....rice turns to sugar a lot faster than wheat. I don't know if that can have any effect on your joints, but I am making sure I don't replace wheat with a lot of rice products simply b/c it can't be good for my need to lose weight.

[RiceGuy]

I hope the rice you eat is whole grain. White rice isn't nearly as nutritious.

Anyway, I had debilitating muscle and joint pain until I began taking magnesium. It's like a miracle for me, so I'd absolutely recommend that first and foremost. Another very good thing has been a sublingual methylcobalamin (B12). Both these nutrients have very important functions in maintaining nerve health, so it makes total sense. I'm beginning to wonder how many people diagnosed with fibromyalgia really have nutrient deficiencies. After all, it has to be caused by something.

[RiceGuy]

Another thought....rice turns to sugar a lot faster than wheat. I don't know if that can have any effect on your joints, but I am making sure I don't replace wheat with a lot of rice products simply b/c it can't be good for my need to lose weight.

I'm sure there are differences between the whole grains and the processed stuff.

I've been enjoying all sort of whole grains for some time now, so rice isn't nearly as much a part of my diet these days. Plus all these other grains cook faster, so it helps that way too. Buckwheat, millet, amaranth, and t'eff are quite nutritious, not to mention tasty!

[curlyfries]

How much magnesium and B12 do you take?

[pattyc]

I am new to this forum, but I wanted to reply to you. I have been dealing with celiac and crohn's, and I usually flare up (a nice way to say massive gut pain...as well as fatigue and JOINT PAIN...which you mentioned) whenever I have anything except white rice and chicken. Ugh... Seriously, any type of NUT, most fruits, veggies, and whole grains cause me serious pain because of the Crohn's. I can eat peeled apples and very cooked veggies sometimes without any pain at all. Nuts and Raw veggies are notoriously hard on the gut. I am not an expert, but if your gut is still healing, maybe it is hard to digest that stuff? Or maybe that is just my experience in dealing with crohn's. The only success I've found in finding out which foods trigger me is to do an elimination diet. I go to chicken and rice for a few days until I feel good, then I add just one food at a time. It's really hard to stick with it, but it is so great when I wake up in the morning without my usual gut pain and backache. I don't always get gut pain from tiny bits of gluten, just from hard to digest foods. Usually the only way I can tell I've been glutened is a neck rash and some wicked mood swings/exhaustion.

[tarnalberry]

have you been evaluated for ehlers danlos (the extreme form of hypermobility)? this can definitely cause pain in your joints because your ligaments are too lose to keep your joints together. some supplements can help a bit, but seeing a PT is vital to gain much more muscle strength (and proprioception) to keep the joints properly in place.

[CCM]

I find this thread very useful because I am dealing with the same kind of joint pain related to food intolerances. Was tested for rheumatoid arthritis (neg). I don't really notice it with gluten, more so other foods: dairy and nightshades. I know everybody's sensitive in different ways, but I really did not understand that one of my old standby's has been a big culprit: coffee. I switched to tea this weekend and don't notice the joint pain right now. Just throwing this out there because I did not see it mentioned yet.

I am interested to know more about the B12 and magnesium supplements as well, as in...how much is advisable to take?

[RiceGuy]

How much magnesium and B12 do you take?

I read a number of articles which indicated that the human body doesn't absorb more than about 5-6mg of B12 per day, with approximately 3mg being the most efficient. So I take 3mg of B12 per day, in three doses, allowing as much time in between each as I can. There has never been any level of B12 found to be toxic, so there's no known risk of overdose. Take all you want, though it is likely to be a waste of money beyond a certain point.

For the magnesium, it is likely to vary widely from person to person. My best advice here is to start with the suggested amount on the label, and work up to an amount which provides optimal benefits. Acidic juices like orange or lemon greatly increase the absorption, so I take it mixed in orange juice. If you take more than you need, often the result is an increase in bowel movements/softer stools.

[pattyc]

have you been evaluated for ehlers danlos (the extreme form of hypermobility)? this can definitely cause pain in your joints because your ligaments are too lose to keep your joints together. some supplements can help a bit, but seeing a PT is vital to gain much more muscle strength (and proprioception) to keep the joints properly in place.

This is interesting! I was in PT from Jan-Feb and am getting better now, but they always remark on my unusual flexibility. I had massive bone/hip pain starting in Nov. I started taking a lot of Vitamin D3 and more calcium, and within a month the bone pain subsided. The hip pain took longer, I think I needed the PT to restabalize the joint and the calcium/D3 to build back up the bone. I had been running half marathons, so I think the lack of absorption of vitamins and intense running did a number on my bones/ligaments! But, PT and calcium/D-3 did the trick for me.

[fedora]

Hello everyone,

Thank you.

I gave up coffee already and went to green tea, but I think caffeine may not be good for me cause I start feeling bad while drinking it.

I eat whole grain long rice. The rice turning to sugar quickly may be bad for me. I also wasn't digesting all the rice. Is that normal? The skin just came out the exact same. sorry TMI

I am taking a calcium/magnesium/vid d supplement pill.

I am taking floravital- a liquid iron, vit. B supplement. I love it. I know it works for Iron, cause I have had problems with iron for many years and it kept me in the normal range when pregnant with twins. I do forget to take these supplements at times, especially the calcium one. I will be much more diligent now.

Ehlers Danlo? I have never been evaluated for that. I am flexible, but not hyper mobile(I don't think). I am not flexible in my shoulders, where I have a lot of pain. Yet it goes out all the time. My spine won't stay straight either. My PT says it is muscular, that the bones can be straightened. She can't find anything wrong with my joints. I trust her, she's my mother in law. My chiro just puts it straight, but that doesn't last. I will definately investigate this further. Thank you.

Building muscle strength helps too.

Joint pain has been an issue since I was 10(knees). It was better for about 6 years as a teenager except when I would get heavily involved in a sport. At 20 it came back in my shoulder.

Thank you so much.

[land-turtle]

All of the suggestions have been great so far, you have to keep trying because there are always more than one reason for the joint pains. My joint pain was tremendously helped when I had to quit taking ibuprofen as I had become allergic. I thought my life was over, but after 2 days the pain just lifted. I was great until I accidently got some gluten at a church dinner, and now I am hurting again. I think that when you get glutened you just have to heal again. Watch what you eat; get plenty of omega 3; take probiotics; and eat things that you cook yourself, you should get better. Oh another thing, I have pain when I eat dairy, unfortunately. Hope this helps.

[Michi8]

Ehlers Danlo? I have never been evaluated for that. I am flexible, but not hyper mobile(I don't think). I am not flexible in my shoulders, where I have a lot of pain. Yet it goes out all the time. My spine won't stay straight either. My PT says it is muscular, that the bones can be straightened. She can't find anything wrong with my joints. I trust her, she's my mother in law. My chiro just puts it straight, but that doesn't last. I will definately investigate this further. Thank you.

Building muscle strength helps too.

Joint pain has been an issue since I was 10(knees). It was better for about 6 years as a teenager except when I would get heavily involved in a sport. At 20 it came back in my shoulder.

Thank you so much.

It may be worth looking into Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, which is a genetic collagen disorder. I was just diagnosed with it myself a few months ago. It is not uncommon for those with EDS to have digestive issues too (chronic constipation for example), and well as a tendency towards certain autoimmune issues (like fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue syndrome) or even celiac disease. There are different forms of EDS...not all are the hypermobility type. For me, I do have flexibility in my shoulders and hips, but not so much in my knees and elbows (they don't bend backwards at all.) I also have very soft, sensitive, stretchy skin, and have health issues related to stretchy tissues: hiatial hernia, constipation, redundant colon.

With EDS, if you keep your muscles strong, then it should help to support the joints. My joints have become painful as I have aged. I was very active and fit as a child and teenager, so I had no noticeable joint issues then. Also, there is some evidence that mega doses of vitamin C can help with collagen production to help keep tissues healthy.

Check out more info on EDS here: Open Original Shared Link

Michelle

[fedora]

Hi,

Thanks everyone. I still am working on this issue. But I have considered EVERYTHING mentioned. I had to quit the full elimination diet after a week. I was getting worse. hmm. Things ebb and flow for me.

I am diligent about me calcium, mag, vit d., iron, and vitamin Bs, especially B-12

I take no chemical medicines(even though I would be in less pain), don't drink coffee anymore.

I am lifting weights again and doing my PT exercises. Today I feel better.

Added sugars are looking bad for me.

I am in the process of testing out nightshades. Then will try corn, and soy. I ate a lot of soy yesterday and feel fine. It is all so confusing.

Thank you Michelle. I did look up EDS. Thank you for the personal info, which helps alot. I had chronic constipation on gluten and cheese. My family on one side does have Chronic constipation. My one shoulder is more flexible than the normal shoulder. I have it on a list to show my doctor. If I can't figure out a food culprit, then I am going to the dr. soon with a list of possible problems. But I am trying not to worry. That won't help.

Thanks everyone. Happy healing.