Failed Rolls

[hannahp57]

I made rolls twice today. I used this same recipe both times but used differen flour mixes for substitutes.

Homemade Pan Rolls by Betty Crocker

3 1/2 to 3 cups Gold Medal

[RiceGuy]

Was there any xanthan gum in the mixes you tried? You need some sort of binder, or it will likely not rise. If the mix doesn't contain xanthan (or guar) gum, you can add it. Generally, 1 tsp per cup of flour is the suggestion, though it can vary depending on the recipe, and your preferences.

Aside from that, the typical gluten-free flours generally don't tolerate as much fat as wheat flour, so you may need to reduce the oil/shortening. You may also need to adjust the liquid. Most recipes I've seen result in a very soft dough, such that it doesn't usually hold its shape unless in relatively small lumps.

[hannahp57]

Both mixes had guar gum. I have never baked with it before but I have read that it is supposed to do the same job xanthan does.

Neither dough seemed very wet. In fact, the second dough was so dry it crumbles so I added more milk. I put it in a warm place to rise. What will cutting back on shortening do? Will it affect just the rise or will I need to add something to compensate for the change?

[lonewolf]

Sorry, but I don't think that a regular yeast bread recipe will work. I tried for years and finally gave up. Quick breads, cakes and cookies will work by substituting the flour, but not yeast breads. You have to use a special gluten-free recipe.

Did you try any of the suggestions on your other thread?

Here, I copied this from the other thread so you could find it easier.

Here is an easier version of the Pao de Queijo. I use this for rolls, sandwich rolls and pizza crust. (I add a bit more olive oil for pizza crust.) I have made them dairy free by putting in 3/4 C of ground golden flax meal and they work out okay.

Brazilian Cheese Rolls

1-1/3 C Tapioca Flour

1-1/3 C grated cheese (or 1 C Sheep Milk Romano)

3 Eggs

2-4 tsp. Milk (or rice milk)

2 tsp. Olive oil

2 tsp.baking powder (maybe? I don't know how much "half a sachet" is.)

1/2 tsp. salt

pepper - a few shakes

Mix ingredients together well. It's okay to use your hands! You might have to add more milk or flour, depending on humidity, size of eggs and who knows what other factors. The dough should be like slightly moist cookie dough. You can refrigerate the dough at this point if you need to. (Sometimes it makes it easier to work with.) Divide into 9 equal sized balls, place on cookie sheet. Bake at about 375 for about 15 minutes.

[hannahp57]

Oh well I tried. I haven't tried another roll recipe yet but I will be again soon. I really was just craving that taste of a frshly baked yeast roll like you have around the holidays:-/

But I guess it wasn't meant to be. Thank you to everyone who has handed out advice because I haven't given up yet!!!

[jerseyangel]

I'm not an expert at baking breads and rolls from scratch but I wouldn't try to use a "regular" recipe and just substitute the flour and add a gum.

Gluten free flours act differently as to the amount of liquid and fat that they require to "work". I do bake cakes and cookies from scratch but use a mix (Gluten Free Pantry French Bread Mix) for bread and rolls. That mix makes delicious rolls, by the way.

I find if a recipe calls for a cup or less of flour, I can get away with using a wheat flour based recipe and substitute gluten free flour or a mix.

[hannahp57]

The first mix i used (orgran's self raising flour) said to use it as a substitute for regular flour so really this was just a curiosity for me. However I must say i liked the second mix better than the first. I am ready to try a regular gluten free recipe now and have been doing some research to find the right flour mixture for what I want.

My sister is coming for a visit in a couple weeks and i told her i am going to teach her to cook. And since it's me doing the teaching it will all be gluten free (twin is not celiac-lucky!). but i figure after learning gluten free, switching back to regular will seem easy. either way i am looing forward to spending much needed sisters-in-the-kitchen time

maybe by then we will have rolls:)

[RiceGuy]

Both mixes had guar gum. I have never baked with it before but I have read that it is supposed to do the same job xanthan does.

Neither dough seemed very wet. In fact, the second dough was so dry it crumbles so I added more milk. I put it in a warm place to rise. What will cutting back on shortening do? Will it affect just the rise or will I need to add something to compensate for the change?

While xanthan and guar gum are sorta interchangeable, xanthan tends to be a bit better for bread type textures, while guar tends to work better for cake type textures.

It does sound like you needed more liquid. I find that the less liquid, the less rise. However, keep in mind that I don't use yeast, only baking powder, so that might change things a bit. Generally, the consensus seems to be that the dough will be too soft to shape, though not soft enough to be called batter. I recall reading one recipe describing the dough as slumping gracefully off the beaters of a bread mixer. I find that picking up a large blob on a spoon (I always mix by hand), and seeing it fall off slowly, can be about right for some recipes. But I usually make the dough a bit stiffer than that, since I prefer a more rigid, crusty texture. The softer the dough, the more like cake it seems to turn out. Too soft a dough can result in a soggy middle.

In my experience, fats tend to make the results more crumbly, so I generally don't put any fat in the recipe at all. There are some exceptions though, but on those occasions I usually have some bean flour in the blend. Bean flours can absorb some fat, and depending on the desired texture, a little fat may be appropriate. Flours with high protein content are usually able to absorb some fat.

Since milk has fat in it, that also needs to be factored in. At a guess, I'd skip the shortening altogether if using milk, but I still would use mostly water for the liquid.

In wheat breads, milk can help result in a softer texture, since the fat (and perhaps the protein) will weaken the elastic nature of the gluten. But in gluten-free breads, it seems we're always looking for ways to get more elasticity, not less.

What I find helpful, is to place a flat piece of foil loosely over the pan (I do not crimp the edges) during the first several minutes of baking. I wait until the dough has risen somewhat, then reach in and slip off the foil. This allows the dough to rise without drying out as much as it would otherwise. This seems to help prevent the dough from splitting apart, because the surface retains more moisture. In this way, I can make the dough a little stiffer, avoiding a gummy middle, and yielding a more bread-like texture instead of it turning out like cake.

Keep in mind, that I do not use any starches, which seem to be the basis of most gluten-free flour blends out here. I like a crusty, toothy bread, not "white bread". I'm still working on that desired texture though, and still find it easier to make cakes and muffins, as they require less binding properties.

[lonewolf]

When I crave fresh baked yeast bread I buy a bag of Pamela's Amazing Gluten Free Bread Mix. Often, instead of making a loaf, I'll make it in 22 muffin tins (24 makes them a tad too small) and have rolls. I've done this several times for holidays and served them to gluten eating people. They taste great, especially hot out of the oven. The loaf of bread works well too and is great for sandwiches.

[hannahp57]

Lonewolf-Thanks for that! I love Pamela's baking mix but haven't come across the bread mix. Now that I know it os worth the investment I may look into ordering some