Jump to content
This site uses cookies. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. More Info... ×
  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.




  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):



    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):


  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

Undermythalted And Overmyethlated For Celiacs


Mord

Recommended Posts

Mord Apprentice
QUOTE(Open Original Shared Link)

HISTAMINE PROBLEMS (UNDERMETHYLATION AND OVERMETHYLATION):

Histadelia (Undermethylation):

Histadelia indicates high levels of histamine in the blood stream (>70 mcg/dl). Histamine levels reflect a wide range of symptoms as there are histamine receptors in the skin, lungs, blood vessels and mucus membranes. High histamine can also cause some people to have psychological/behavioral symptoms as well.

This condition creates an imbalanced amino acid cycle, resulting in low serotonin levels. Obsessive compulsive patients are often histadeliacs. Often they are diagnosed with seasonal affective disorder. Other symptoms include perfectionism, allergies, headaches, and anorexia/bulimia.

Diagnosis is done primarily with a whole blood histamine level, folic acid and basophil levels.

Treatment revolves around antifolates such as methionine to add a methyl group to help histamine leave the body, calcium to release the excess histamine into the blood stream, and other supportive nutrients to help metabolism. It can take 3-6 months to resolve this chemical imbalance. If treatment is discontinued, then symptoms return.

SYMPTOMS OF UNDERMETHYLATION:

Allergies

Headaches

Competitiveness

Excess saliva

Obsessive-compulsive

Perfectionism

Easy tears

High libido

Addictive tendencies

Histapenia (overmethylation):

Histapenia is characterized by low blood histamine levels (<40 mcg/dl). The neurotransmitter dopamine tends to be high. About 1/3 of these patients experience anxiety disorders. They react badly to antihistamines and generally don’t have seasonal allergies, but have many food and chemical sensitivities.

Treatment revolves around folic acid, niacin, B12, and a high protein diet. Within 2-4 weeks gradual improvement is seen. It can take several months to truly correct this biochemical imbalance. As with all biochemical imbalances that are in born, if you stop treatment symptoms will return.

SYMPTOMS OF OVERMETHYLATION:

High anxiety, nervous

Social isolation

Academic underachievement

Dry eyes

Depression and despair

Food and chemical sensitivities

Low libido

Heavy body hair

Restless legs

Learning disabilities

Upper body or head pain

Panic attacks

Paranoia

No seasonal allergies

Increased dopamine and Norepinephrine

I have symptoms of both. Those who have high histamine SHOULD have low copper levels. I pretty positive that I have high copper levels.... HOWEVER folic acid messes my head up BAAAAD. That can only happen with high histamine levels which shouldn't be present with high copper levels (again, which i have). Sorry if i cant explain this very well. Basically my question is.... Is it possible that i have symptoms of both because of celiac disease? Perhaps what ever little histamine i have is being used in response to my constant gluten intake? I really appreciate yalls time to help.


Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):



FarmCat Newbie

I had not heard of this before, but WOW do I fit the profile of being overmethylated/low histamine. It makes a lot of little things make sense--like the fact that when I saw a traditional allergist for food allergy testing, the nurse commented that during the skin testing I barely even reacted to the control substance, which EVERYONE is supposed to be allergic to. I was thinking low histamine even then, but didn't realize there was an entire syndrome that went with it.

I'm sorry I can't address your questions, but I think you may have just handed me a big clue to my own difficulties. Thank you SO much.

*off to do more research*

EchoSprings Newbie

Sorry to say that you just cannot have both Histadelia and Histapenia at the same time. Similarily you couldn't have hyper and hypo thyroidism at the same time, or have both high and low chloesterol levels at the same time. It doesn't work that way. If you have one, you don't have the other. I promise.

If you think you have something wrong with your histamine levels, go to the doctor and get blood tests for histamine levels and copper. Don't take an anti-histamine (all allergy medications are anti-histamines) before the test as these will reduce your histamine levels (so if you have high histamine or normal histamine your tests will come out all wrong).

The most common cause of high blood copper are not histadelia or histapenia, the cause is too many multi-vitamins (which contain copper) and/or drinking copper contaminated water -- usually from copper plumbing. You can reduce the copper containing multivitamins and drink bottled distilled water instead.

But don't change anything until you confirm high copper levels in your blood -- the symptoms of high copper are similar to about 100 other diseases and you just cannot diagnose yourself based on a list of random symptoms. I have many of the symptoms on the lists that you provided, and I'm positive I don't have a histamine or a copper problem. In fact, most of those symptoms are also symptoms of celiac disease -- which I assume you have based on your post. Therefore you probably have symptoms of both because they are also symptoms of untreated celiac disease. Perhaps you are still getting hidden sources of gluten in your diet and should try to figure out where the hidden gluten is coming from?

Fiddle-Faddle Community Regular

Wheat allergy (as opposed to celiac disease) can cause high histamine levels, and can also cause similar symptoms to celiac disease, including vitamin deficiencies (such as folic acid).

The symptoms mentioned of both undermethylation and overmethylation are also symptoms of over-active and under-active thyroid, and may be related. However, celiac disease is already known to be linked with both over- and under-active thyroid autoimmune disease. There is also research from both India and Italy linking celiac disease with bipolar disorder as well.

I can't help wondering if these under- and over- methylation syndromes are symptoms of celiac disease, rather than stand-alone disorders.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Celiac.com:
    Donate

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):
    Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):





    Celiac.com Sponsors (A17-M):




  • Recent Activity

    1. - Scott Adams replied to miguel54b's topic in Related Issues & Disorders
      1

      Gluten and short-term memory.

    2. - Scott Adams replied to Suze046's topic in Celiac Disease Pre-Diagnosis, Testing & Symptoms
      1

      Reintroduction of Gluten

    3. - Scott Adams replied to Rejoicephd's topic in Coping with Celiac Disease
      2

      Draft gluten-free ciders… can they be trusted ?

    4. - Scott Adams replied to Mykidzz3's topic in Gluten-Free Foods, Products, Shopping & Medications
      1

      High Cost of Gluten-Free Foods

    5. - Scott Adams replied to MMeade's topic in Coping with Celiac Disease
      1

      Gluten Allergy


  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):



  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      131,362
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748

    NAC
    Newest Member
    NAC
    Joined

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):


  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121.4k
    • Total Posts
      1m

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):





  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):



  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • Scott Adams
      While it's always important to approach internal use of essential oils with caution and ideally under the guidance of a qualified professional, your experience highlights the potential of complementary approaches when traditional medicine falls short. Many in the community are also interested in the intersection of natural wellness and gluten-free living, particularly for managing systemic inflammation and its various symptoms, so sharing your story is valuable. Your observation that it may also be helping with bloating is fascinating, as that could point to an overall reduction in inflammation. Thank you for sharing what is working for you!
    • Scott Adams
      It's interesting how a single, clear moment—like struggling during a game—can suddenly connect all the dots and reveal the hidden impact of gluten exposure. Your experience with short-term memory fog is a very real and documented symptom for many individuals with gluten sensitivity, often occurring alongside the other issues you mentioned like mood disturbances, sleep disruption, and digestive irregularity. It's a frustrating and often invisible effect that can make you feel unlike yourself, so that moment of clarity, though born from a tough dominoes match, is actually a powerful piece of self-knowledge. Identifying a specific culprit like that steak strip is a huge win, as it arms you with the information needed to avoid similar pitfalls in the future and protect your cognitive clarity. You are definitely not alone in experiencing this particular set of neurological and physical symptoms; it's a strong reminder of gluten's profound impact on the entire body, not just the digestive system. Supplementation may help you as well.  The most common nutrient deficiencies associated with celiac disease that may lead to testing for the condition include iron, vitamin D, folate (vitamin B9), vitamin B12, calcium, zinc, and magnesium.  Unfortunately many doctors, including my own doctor at the time, don't do extensive follow up testing for a broad range of nutrient deficiencies, nor recommend that those just diagnosed with celiac disease take a broad spectrum vitamin/mineral supplement, which would greatly benefit most, if not all, newly diagnosed celiacs. Because of this it took me decades to overcome a few long-standing issues I had that were associated with gluten ataxia, for example numbness and tingling in my feet, and muscle knots--especially in my shoulders an neck. Only long term extensive supplementation has helped me to resolve these issues.      
    • Scott Adams
      Approximately 10x more people have non-celiac gluten sensitivity than have celiac disease, but there isn’t yet a test for NCGS. If your symptoms go away on a gluten-free diet it would likely signal NCGS. What you're describing is a very common and frustrating experience when reintroducing gluten after a period of avoidance, and your timeline is perfectly consistent with a non-celiac gluten sensitivity. While a celiac reaction can be more immediate, a sensitivity reaction is often delayed, sometimes taking several days to manifest as your body's inflammatory response builds up; the fact that your symptoms returned a few days after reintroduction is a strong indicator that gluten is indeed the culprit, not a coincidence. Your doctor's advice to reintroduce it was necessary to confirm the diagnosis, as the initial negative celiac test and subsequent improvement on a gluten-free diet pointed strongly towards sensitivity. Many in this community have gone through this exact same process of elimination and challenging, and it's wise to reintroduce gently as you did. Given your clear reaction, the best course of action is likely to resume a strict gluten-free diet, as managing a sensitivity is the primary way to control those debilitating symptoms and allow your body to heal fully.
    • Scott Adams
      Your suspicion is almost certainly correct, and you are wise to be cautious. Draft cider is a very common and often overlooked source of cross-contact because the same tap lines are frequently used for both beer and cider; unless a bar has a dedicated line for gluten-free beverages, which is rare, the cider will run through tubing that has previously contained gluten-containing beer, contaminating your drink. The fact that you didn't react at a clean brewery suggests they may have had more meticulous practices or separate lines, but this is the exception, not the rule. Many in the community have had identical experiences, leading them to strictly avoid draft cider and opt for bottled or canned versions, which are poured directly from their sealed container and bypass the contaminated tap system entirely. Switching to bottles or cans is the safest strategy, and your plan to do so is a smart move to protect your health. PS - here are some articles on the topic:    
    • Scott Adams
      Your post really highlights the financial and emotional struggle so many families face. You are not alone in feeling frustrated by the high cost of gluten-free specialty items and the frustrating waste when your daughter can't tolerate them. A great place to start is by focusing on naturally gluten-free whole foods that are often more affordable and less processed, like rice, potatoes, beans, lentils, corn, eggs, and frozen fruits and vegetables—these are nutritional powerhouses that can form the basis of her meals. For the specialty items like bread and pasta, see if your local stores carry smaller, single-serving packages or allow returns if a product causes a reaction, as some companies understand this challenge. Regarding vitamins, that is an excellent next step; please ask her doctor to prescribe a high-quality gluten-free multivitamin, as insurance will often cover prescribed vitamins, making them much more affordable. Finally, connecting with a local celiac support group online can be a treasure trove of location-specific advice for finding the best and most affordable products in your area, saving you both time and money on the trial-and-error process. 
×
×
  • Create New...