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Nothing Seen On Scope... Chances Biopsy Still Positive?

yankeegirl

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yankeegirl Newbie
yankeegirl
Posted

I had my endoscopy today, and it showed a few things.. Like possible delay in stomach emptying (which I had an emptying study done for as well), mild gastritis and some edema and glandular changes in the duodenum. He took multiple biopsies, and we will see what those show. I am just at a point that I have been dealing with sickness for long enough that I want a diagnosis so badly. What are the chances biopsy will show what could not be seen on endoscopy?

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eatmeat4good Enthusiast
eatmeat4good
Posted

The biopsy can show damage not seen with the scope. Microscopic damage is looked for and much more is visible to them. It is entirely possible and I've seen it reported here that no damage was visible by the Dr. but the pathologist was able to see it. So you could still be positive. They are supposed to take 6 biopsies though as the Celiac damage can be what they call "patchy". I sure hope they did. If only one or two are taken and not in the spots with damage then of course they won't see it even if it is there.

1974girl Enthusiast
1974girl
Posted

Many adult GI doctors will not even biopsy unless they can see it. And that was told to me by a nurse for a GI doctor and my dd pediatric doctor. I am glad yours at least took samples. My dd had no visible damage but "simplification" of the villi which is the start. You just don't go from healthy villi to total atrophy overnight!

eatmeat4good Enthusiast
eatmeat4good
Posted

Many adult GI doctors will not even biopsy unless they can see it. And that was told to me by a nurse for a GI doctor and my dd pediatric doctor. I am glad yours at least took samples. My dd had no visible damage but "simplification" of the villi which is the start. You just don't go from healthy villi to total atrophy overnight!

If that is true I think it is terrible.

It seems to defy the point of a biopsy...to look under the microscope.

Wow.

Thank you for sharing that.

MitziG Enthusiast
MitziG
Posted

It is actually uncommon for celiac damage to be visible- only the most severe cases are. The delayed gastric emptying is a big clue that celiac may be the culprit. However, if you have been on PPI's for a long time, they can also cause it.

yankeegirl Newbie
yankeegirl
Posted
  • Author

Thanks so much for the info! He took multiple biopsies throughout.. So we'll see... Now to wait!

sa1937 Community Regular
sa1937
Posted

Thanks so much for the info! He took multiple biopsies throughout.. So we'll see... Now to wait!

Also, make sure you pick up a copy of the pathology report for your records when you meet again with the doctor to find out the results. I agree with others...many times damage is only visible upon examination with a microscope unless it's severe and can be seen with the naked eye.

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yankeegirl Newbie
yankeegirl
Posted
  • Author

I just don't see how in conjunction with this nasty rash it could be anything else.. If the biopsies show nothing, I think I will go to a derm to biopsy the rash too

Cara in Boston Enthusiast
Cara in Boston
Posted

Since your biopsy is already done, there is nothing keeping you from beginning the gluten free diet right away. Even if your biopsy is negative, you might see great results on the diet. Think of it as the "final" test . . .

Cara

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    • knitty kitty
      High DGP-A with normal IGA

      By knitty kitty · Posted

      So you're saying that you think you should have severe intestinal damage since you've had the symptoms so long?   DGP IgG antibodies are produced in response to a partial gluten molecule.  This is different than what tissue transglutaminase antibodies are  produced in response to.   TTg IgA antibodies are produced in the intestines in response to gluten.  The tTg IgA antibodies attack our own cells because a structural component in our cell membranes resembles a part of gluten.  There's a correlation between the level of intestinal damage with the level of tTg antibodies produced.  You are not producing a high number of tTg IgA antibodies, so your level of tissue damage in your intestines is not very bad.  Be thankful.   There may be reasons why you are not producing a high quantity of tTg IgA antibodies.  Consuming ten grams or more of gluten a day for two weeks to two months before blood tests are done is required to get sufficient antibody production and damage to the intestines.  Some undiagnosed people tend to subconsciously avoid lots of gluten.  Cookies and cakes do not contain as much gluten as artisan breads and thick chewy pizza crust.  Anemia, diabetes and thiamine deficiency can affect IgA antibody production as well.   Do you carry genes for Celiac?  They frequently go along with EDS.
    • rei.b
      High DGP-A with normal IGA

      By rei.b · Posted

      I was tested for celiac at the same time, so I wasn't taking naltrexone yet. I say that, because I don't. The endoscopy showed some mild inflammation but was inconclusive as to celiac disease. They took several biopsies and that's all that was shown. I was not given a Marsh score.
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      Food and environmental allergies involve IgE antibodies.  IgE antibodies provoke histamine release from mast cells.   Celiac disease is not always visible to the naked eye during endoscopy.  Much of the damage is microscopic and patchy or out of reach of the scope.  Did they take any biopsies of your small intestine for a pathologist to examine?  Were you given a Marsh score? Why do you say you "don't have intestinal damage to correlate with lifelong undiagnosed celiac disease"?   Just curious.  
    • rei.b
      High DGP-A with normal IGA

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      I was tested for food allergies and environmental allergies about 7 months before I started taking Naltrexone, so I don't think that is the cause for me, but that's interesting!  The main thing with the celiac thing that is throwing me off is these symptoms are lifelong, but I don't have intestinal damage to correlate with lifelong undiagnosed celiac disease.
    • trents
      Finding gluten free ingredients

      By trents · Posted

      Welcome to the forum, @Kara S! Warrior bread is a grain free bread product. Google it. There are commercial mixes available, I believe, Youtube videos and many recipes. 
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