gfp
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Thanks, im flatting and cooking separate from my flat mates anyway cos ive been trying to put on weight lol
Even so you do share pans and utensils....or a dishwasher or dishcloth, towels etc.
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If ALL you had to drink was water, you'd die. Distilled or not. I've been drinking it for 20 years... still alive.
I agree, we do need minerals and salts from water, but our water is so polluted with other things, that I'd prefer to get those things from vegetables and fruits or supplements and have pure water. I don't want all the other toxins that come along with it.
Depends who you talk to; in talking to my doctor, I found out she only drinks distilled water.
If you only drink distilled water it will literally leach vitamins and mineral out of the food and you literally pee them out... and this is the wrong forum to say "My Dr. does it "
I lived in the country for 15 years. We had well water supplied by a small water company. Pathetic water pressure. Extremely high mineral content, what's called hard water. And who knows how much septic tank and other polutants seeping through the ground.As mentioned on another thread ... this is how I got typhoid.
Shallow well water can contain all sorts of contaminants. Ground water seepage is a big issue as are dead animals and birds and algal growth.
We pump sewage, industrial waste and inject acidified water ... and reinject radioactive waste. That's just for starters.
Like me you have probably seen the analysis of thousands of ground water samples and probably have the same thoughts.
If I lived on the side of a mountain it might be a different matter but anywhere in a basin uggh ...
I have analysed shallow wells for drinking water in the middle of the Sahara and found industrial pollutants, not to mention run off from oil fields etc. so its a little scary to imagine drinking shallow well water which is not regularly tested.
Regular testing is necassary ... my tyhpoid was traced back to the fact is was summer. The underwater spring feeding the well dried up and started flowing in reverse. The outlet became an inlet and the inlet was located next to a sewage outlet.
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There are other discussions on the board about this, and here is part of it...Look it up through the search.
Also all the "evidence" we have at this point is overhelming -- grain-fed animals are gluten-free. Some people may have other issues with it, such antibodies and so on, but gluten simply does not appear to be an issue.
When an animal consumes gluten, its digestive enzymes break it down into short sequences of amino acids before it can be absorbed into the animal's bloodstream. (Which is also what happens in humans that are not intolerant to gluten or who do not have Celiac disease.) From there, the animal uses those amino acid to build the proteins specified by their genetic code. Many of these proteins are similar to those of humans, such as muscle proteins, ect. Beef may have a more dense protein concentration or have a higher fat content, or some other factor that makes it more difficult to digest.
This is how muscle is built, but it doesn't mean its the whole story. Our bodies often lock away toxins (in fat cells for instance) ... or expel them via other means such as through the skin. We know gliadin is passed in human breast milk...
How do cows digest wheat? They are pretty much specialised in digesting grass, not high protein sources like seeds. What happens to unused protein sequences?
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Its always good to hear of experiences like this... and its always helpful to share them.
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It probably depends on each company and also product.
A lot of chance might be involved, if they share lines then if you get one of the first 'gluten-free' products after running gluten or the last ...
As this is voluntary I tend to think of it as a good sign and if that company has other products not made in shared faciltities I tend to trust it a bit more than another company that doesn't say.
What are the other products etc.? If its flour then it is airborne... if its soy sauce then its not so less likely to jump across lines.
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I'm home, and it actually went really well.
I had a nice glass of wine with my meal. I dined on grilled veggies, fruit, potatoes, and ice cream. =)
No one noticed a thing. Apparently, they all know my gluten-free status anyhow. I didn't realize dh discusses my dietary issues with his colleagues. Yikes.
Well, its not just you but the kids ... I think that shows how onboard he is...
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OK, thanks, good to know. Any other opinions?
ravenwood already said most of it....
Search the forums a bit, ask more questions and ... biopsies can be false negative because of the way they are sampled.
Going gluten-free is quite a change, its hard at first like learning to ride a bike but once you actually make it habit it's actually quite easy.
Search this forum for cross contamination (CC) and hidden gluten ... get back to basics and get healthy.
If you are in shared accomadation this will almost certainly prove the hardest problem ... as others tend to be careless ..
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My best suggestion for you when first going gluten-free is to do everything really bland and start with meats, veggies, and fruits. I just started the gluten-free diet about 2 1/2 weeks ago, and I'm so scared to mess up that I don't care that my food isn't incredibly flavorful. Until you do research on the best ways to find the "hidden gluten," it's easier just to avoid anything that might have gluten in it.
Be prepared to spend a lot of time making your own food. Also be prepared to be VERY frustrated when you do your first shopping trips. I would suggest sticking with the above mentioned items because I tried reading labels on my first shopping trip, and I almost walked out of the store in tears because I didn't know what items were actually safe. If you're interested in an item, start making a list of the product and manufacturer and do a quick google search when you get home. I typically search something similar to "gluten-free kraft." Most larger companies have some type of information on their websites, and otherwise you can find some other good resources through on-line product lists.
No one will claim it's easy, especially at first, and I'm definitely no expert, but I wish someone would have given me this same advice when I first started.
One last thing, if you choose to go out to eat, either be prepared to be VERY specific about what you can and cannot have, or at least make sure that they do things such as clean the grill and utensils before they make your steak (just an example) and that they don't put any spices on it. Also remember something as simple as a hamburger could have fillers in it to make it more flavorful, so actual pieces of meat are safer.
Well, Cardinemight be new with only 2 posts but that is exactly what I would have said!
More tommorow (hopefully) meanwhile try searching this site for cross contaimnation (we say CC) and hidden gluten.
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Mainly just stick to the details in fine print instead of looking for the gluten-free label.
The rest you have to just bear in mind as to the background bcause it will seem a little crazy ...rest assured, its the labelling laws not you
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They do have labeling laws in England, though. So at least gluten free products are labeled gluten-free, and they can be found in any grocery store. The caveat is the the definition of gluten-free is something like 200ppm so things that aren't 100% gluten-free can be labeled gluten-free. This is how it will be in the United States in a year or two as well, so going to England will be good training for you! One thing England gets right is the cookies/cakes. Store bought ones generally taste pretty good.
Its not that simple.... it is illegal to label a carrot as gluten free or a corn tortilla UNLESS they add gluten, then it can be called gluten free. This is why it is so confusing...
If you (like me) can't eat the 200ppm stuff then ignore anything that say's suitable for coeliacs or gluten free ... and read the fine print on the back...
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I wonder if this is true.
Do people have so many issues with gluten intolerance in Europe?
Do you think its because America drinks flouridated and chlorinated tap water?
Seems the only other western european country that flouridates their tap water is england. coincidentally i saw a bunch of gluten-free stuff in the supermarkets there a few months ago.
Maybe its just that we are drinking water and eating dairy that has antibiotics...basically killing our good bacteria.
Maybe that is the sole problem. Maybe its not necessarily gluten intolerance to begin with... but just that we don't have enough good bacteria? I don't know...maybe its both..
But to me (and maybe this isn't true), it just seems I don't hear much about these problems in other countries where they eat gluten...
The rate of celiac disease by screening is consistent across Europe and N. America at between 1:100 and 1:200.
Quite co-incidentally my celiac disease started when I was drinking unchlorinated water... which resulted in typhoid from which I never really recovered. The typhiod came from unchlorinated water. (tested)
Flouridisation is a mixed topic... not everything is black and white. I'm quite willing to believe it might have bad effects and the positive effects (if true) are largely cosmetic but non-chlorination is simply not a viable option in densely populated areas. The mass health effects of non-chlorination are too frightening to mention.
Along with immunisation, clean drinking water has provided developed nations with a life expectancy that our grandparents could not have expected at birth.
The problem is its not something that can be addressed on individual cases.... tap water in London is recycled, its already been drunk by 10+ people .... if the water was untreated then a small contamination with a rampant pathogen (like typhoid) would circulate the water supply.
This is a seperate issue than is drinking chlorinated water better than non-clorinated. Its the same with immunisation, if people were not immunised then they become potential carriers so if a small percent of the popluation abstain there is not enough non-innoculated people to spread an epidemic but if over 50% abstained then an epidemic becomes far more likely as the disease has non-immunised peope to spread.
If drinking water wasn't routinely chlorinated then one person with typhoid could infect millions.
A good question might be if fluoridised water is adsorbed differently in celiacs... this is more than possible and the health benefits from fluoridisation are largely cosmetic if real anyway.
I have lived in quite a few reasonably rich third world countires (where medical care is available) but where chlorination is not standard. Almost without exception life expectancy is much shorter amd infant mortality higher than Europe and diseases we only remember the names from our grandparents are common.
This is one of the dilemnas of state medicine .... it has to address the needs of the population as oposed to individuals. It would be nice if we could all have non-chlorinated spring water ... I'm sure its healthier for an individual but its not possible in many metropolitan areas. The risk is that if not then the water supply becomes contaminated then everyone drinking it is at risk.
State medicine has to balance what is good for the whole not the individual and luckily these often overlap but sometimes they do not.
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I wonder how the "gene link" factors into this theory.
Does the gene somehow "encourage" those beneficial bacteria to be able to fester in the intestine or does it somehow discourage beneficial bacteria to fester and/or promote malevolent bacteria to reproduce or is it separate.
Interesting read.
Right now, all they have are studies/stats to evaluate the problem, but this could produce some results in the years to come...
Just a guess but I would imagine genetics pays its role in how actively we attack those bacteria and associated gluten.
In some (most) people the bacteria are probably tolerated by the immune system and in others attacked. This does explain the triggers... in that when our immune system is in overdrive with a different pathogen it will often attack anything and everything until it can make specific pahogen attacking antibodies... once it identifies something as a pathogen it will usually continue to identify it as a pathogen by producing specific T cells to attack that one pathogen. So in the case of twins I guess one had a trigger, the other not... so I guess its like saying why did one twin get measles and the other not... because they have been exposed to different pathogens their immune systems are trained by what they have had. ?????
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Hi--I am going to England this summer (I hope) and I was wondering about the fine points you have to know to stay gluten free when reading food labels there. The Coeliac UK website says that modified starch and maltodextrin are gluten free in England. In the United States one does not know if they are safe unless the derivation is shown e.g. maltodextrin (corn). The UK website also seems to be more lenient about trace amounts and mentions how some celiacs/coeliacs tolerate gluten more than others. That is a bit scary. I'd appreciate any advice people could give. Thank you.
This is very tricky.
1/ By law now, allergens must be labelled and wheat and barley are classed as allergens.
2/ No external testing is done ... its left to a honor system
with the food manufacturers.3/ C-UK are meant to be a charity, the directors also own a company at the same address dealing in gluten-free food and consulting. This company pays no rent ...
(I mention this because the directors of C-UK are crooked but the members are ... well just members, many of the regional groups do great jobs)
So we have a strange situation, C-UK are self appointed advisors to the government for legislation. They beleive only biopsy proven celaics are celiac, they do not beleive in neurological effects, they don't beleive a small amount of gluten hurts anyone <200ppm. They campagned against better labelling saying their "product" (Gluten Free directory) is the only safe way for celiacs. Most of their revenue is donations from the food industry. (as a charity their revenue has to be disclosed)
and the worse part, they sponsor research BUT only publish what they want (they have sponsored some studies that proved neurological connections and are listed as sponsors yet they hide the results and the paper is only available because it was published as a medical paper.
They also have gagging orders on volunteers for releasing any of this info...
So what we are left with is a self regulating industry, the directory is 100% untested by C-UK or independently tested. The manufacturers are asked to list thier gluten-free foods, noone checks, that's it.
In other words they pretty much tow the line from10 years ago and don't want it to change. Their main product is the directory, if food was properly labelled then they have no product so they campaigned against better labelling on the grounds it was too complicated for us.
So where does this leave us .... In combination with the CODEX alimentarius (another food industry sponsored body) it leaves us in a damned confusing position!
Pretty much we have voluntary labelling .. EU law dictates we must label allergens so this has to happen BUT often does not. Its often vague... but the worst thing is its confusing. I bought some chips (we call them crisps) the other day which said "safe for coeliacs" however on the labelling it said MSG from wheat.
They are not labelled gluten-free because of another quirk....
Officially gluten-free means ... that they have had a gluten containing ingredient replaced with an ingredient less than 200ppm gluten. Hence, said chips/crisps are not gluten-free because they didn't have gluten removed but added.
If however it was a product usually containing gluten then it can be labelled gluten-free. (even though in many cases the substitute contains gluten but <200ppm)
In a large amount of cases gluten-free actually means the inverse....watch out for gluten-free labels. In order to stick to the letter of the law for instance a corn tortilla is not gluten-free but .. if they add some wheat starch <200ppm gluten then it is! If not they can legally label it as "naturally gluten free" but not gluten free!
(I realise how mad this sounds ... but its the result of C-UK, the Codex and a lot of industry meddling... and a government (or actually governments) thathave just accepted C-UK as the voice of coeliacs in the UK. (Membership is automatic if you get a biopsy)... at one point they claimed to represent 90% of coeliacs in the UK which I forced them to retract ... (Since only 10% of celiacs are diagnosed they cannot possibly represent 90% of coeliacs)
They could have then said "diagnosed coelaics ... but they just dropped the claim)
OK, now you know this what to do?
You can buy gluten-free foods from DS (dietry specials) they seem to have gluten-free/wheat free across the board.
For pasta several supermarkets home brand gluten-free stuff is just corn or rice flour and water ... I think this is fairly safe simply because having tried making pasta from corn I can't see how it can share a production line with real pasta.
Even though wheat and barley must be listed and rye is rarely used here its best not to assume.... I tend to go for products that have some items in their ranges that say "malto-dextrine from wheat" ... legally they should always say unless its from anon allergenic source.. in practice as noone checks I strongly suspect that many of those that don't mention the source simply don't know.
Noone has ever sued a company for hidden gluten... until someone does and wins then they have no reason to really check and every interest in plausible deniability so its a case of passing responsibility. If they did get taken to court they would just pass the responsibility to the supplier of maltodextrine or other additive who would say they were not specifically asked...and all the time they have the 200ppm limit to hide behind.
Eating out
Knowledge is pretty scarce. C-UK have a gluten free on the go ... unfortunatly its opt-in for resto's in terms of they need to pay to be in the guide. For London this results in three choices. La Tasca (a chain of mediocre at best Tapas), Smolensky's (burgers and the like -(actually not bad as a diner/grill) and one other resto owned by a TV Chef.
Round the corner I have a small family run Italian... they even have gluten-free pasta and will tell you which sauces are gluten-free and which they are not 100% sure and which they are. They are not listed ... as they can't afford to pay.
Knowedge varies enormously, the UK service attitude though not quite at US levels (but compared to Europe) is "the customer gets what they ask for"
Unfortunatly this all to often results in "we will tell the customer what they want to hear".
Within London language is a problem, very few waiters and waitresses speak English well though they can read the menu they don't have the vocabulary for protein, gluten etc. I try and find a waiter or waitress where I at least speak their language and I have made the effort to learn these terms.
Although not the most common finding an Italian waiter/ess is usually the easiest because they know what celiac disease is.
I was out for a meal with a girl (herself an immigrant working in restos) where the waiter was English and knew about celiac disease. This was rare enough to be a topic for discussion!
There are actually quite a lot of good places that can do gluten-free.. they are just damned hard to find...
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Ok it's been since november 17th 2007 since my last Gluten and I am angry. I've been eating mostly whole foods, spices etc. Almost nothing processed. When I do do processed it's just not right. Haven't ventured into the flours yet, just too nervous it won't be amazing. I never settled for second best before, not going to now. So mostly whole foods for me.
I'm angery for the first time in my life. I can trace back my symptoms to celiac to 1976, cronic constipation, perferated bowel in 1979, infertility, hypothyroid, migraines, short statcher, depression (that was IVF induced I'm sure), the list goes on...point is I was never angry at any of that. Now I'm angry. And not even at the doctors for not finding it sooner. Just because it is. I'm angry just because it is Celiac.
I have to ask how do we do it forever? I want an oreo sooooo bad. And think I would kill for a meatball sub. It was one of my last meals and I should have had 2.
I can't cry. I used to cry at the drop of a hat, now nothing. Has been so for about a year or more. I have no care for anything, no feeling, no emotion, no love for anything including my husband of 22 years, my best puppy dog, my worst puppy dog, my father, I've no love anymore. I feel mostly overwhelmed, I'm losing everything important...credit cards, checks, receipts, necklaces rings, my mind, stuff. I just can't seem to grasp orgainzation and I was totally anal before, ultra organized, OCD. Now I don't care about anything. I lose keys, not a care. I lose my sense of being, not a care. I can't keep my train of thought. It's aweful. I can't remember poop. I lose time. and still not a care. has anyone else not been able to cry? I think not crying is hurting me somehow.
I digress.... so how do we do this forever?
Well I can relate to a lot!
I always cooked so for me cooking everything from scratch is no big deal.... being able to just buy a subway is another matter though ...
I'm angry, I wonder if we share reasons ... ?
I'm angry because it took 15 years to diagnose me... and that from seeing my first GI .. who shoved a tube down my throat but didn't go so far as the intestines ..
I have to say ... it really pisses me that I was sick for so long .. and at times worried sick... yet noone ever tested me for celiac disease until my mother got diagnosed... I had even realised wheat messed me up all by myself... (due perhaps to weird circumstances)
Food cravings should go away ... honest .. you might still miss convenience but mostly its OK...
I have to also ask... is the I cannot cry quite literal?
I think not crying is hurting me somehow.The reason I ask is I really went through a horrible year last year... I managed to get to nearly 40 before ever saying "please just get this year away... next year cannot be so bad whatever happens". I never felt so beat up and used before .. I didn't eat for days on end and dropped down to dangerously low weights and in all that time I couldn't cry... I'm not a big crier, I didn't cry at the drop of a hat but I have from time to time... but ... I just couldn't cry at last year.. and still haven't!
Sometimes I think its good to cry and let things out.... I desperately wanted to just break-down and have a good sob last year...
anyway, just a question based on my own observations of myself and what you have said...
My own personal thoery as to why I didn't cry was because I had to be strong for someone else. My girlfriend (of 5 years) was going through bi-polar depression and what has now been diagnosed as schitzophrenia. I had to deal with her on a daily basis and be supportive when she cried for sometimes days on end.
We hear a good deal about transferrence of depression and codependancy etc. and I feel like all that time being strong just drained the crying right out of me.
I now live in a world sounds quite similar to yours... I can't concentrate or organize. I can't get round to pay things on time or do those 1001 piled up things. I'd forget my head if it wasn't attached...and then don't sleep remembering the huge list...
I wish I could cry... I wish I could forgive the person that hurt me so much... I guess this is where it comes from for me ... but I don't know you...
Getting angry with the person that betrayed me helped... it helped a lot... but what's next?I think not crying is hurting me somehow. -
I am not sure what your point is.
My statement was just explaining to the mom why the doctors were wanting the endo. and why they have an "attitude" about patients getting one or not. She should be aware why they are saying what they are saying. But in the end, it is really her choice. The debate will go on and on within the celaic and medical community for some time as to the need or wisdom of an endo, and I am glad for it. This is how this art grows and changes for the better. I personally feel that both bloodwork and endoscopy are tools to be used to gather information in order to best understand what is going on with each patient. People just have to use their best judgement and hope they are getting it right. No one ever claimed that medicine is perfect.
I am glad I got and will continue to be happy having an endoscopy so that they can look at the damage (which was not hard to find) and assess on a microscopic level how my villi are doing as far as recovery. I was happy to find out there were no ulcers or cancerous growths to be found. It is a choice that I made that I am happy with.
The point is two fold...
Firstly the biopsy is not a useful diagnostic tool for celiac disease unless we only count celiac disease as total villous atrophy.
For those who are tested and test negative it can be a very hard uphill and expensive battle to then get retestd or have the blood tests stand up by themselves.
Most GP's and GI's wil be from reasonably to very happy with a positive full panel. Many of the same GP's and GI's will then change their mind if the biopsy is negative.
From a getting a diagnosis point of view the biopsy is risky because it has so many false negatives yet MD's tend to ignore that because its a "golden test". This can cause all sorts of problems for the patient ... the most common of which is to be put back onto a non gluten-free diet.
The second point is the biopsy (or more accurately the gluten challenge) itself is actually harmful if the patient is already gluten-free.
This is not debatable, the goal of a gluten challenge for biopsy is to do so mcuh damage to your intestines it is easily found by random testing.
Unfortunately many of us here have suffered irreversible damage by this point.
Given that the vast majority of GP's and GI's are mis-informed about the procedures this leaves a lot of us in limbo. Many GI's do not even know that the patient needs to be eating gluten for the test to be positive let alone the astoundingly high false negative rate.
The overwhelming majority of GI's do not accept neurological symptoms nor depression, I have even had them refuse to read the clinical trials documenting this and dismiss it as fantasy (without reading it). We have peripheral neuropathy because its psychosomatic, depression because we have a limited choice at the supermarket... etc.
Many of us here have suffered permanent and irreverisble damage whilst waiting for a positive biopsy. Many of us took 20yrs plus to be diagnosed. Heck back in about 1996 I had a stomach endoscopy but it never occured to them to do a intestinal one at the same time... and when it was over they offered me sandwiches...
Unfortunately diagnosis is not an art but a science..unfortunately, because the science is often ignored and far too few GI's and GP's actually READ the testing methodology.This is how this art grows and changes for the better.I totally agree that it is useful to advance our knowledge but unfortunately, from an individuals point of view far too many actually complicate diagnosis...
More importantly it would be nice to have a GI have a check for other nasties .. but again the danger is not getting diagnosed or put onto aseries of repeated gluten challenges...
To put it simply ....many GI's or GP's would be happy with serology but as sson as they get a vague or negative biopsy (regardless of if the patient has eating gluten in 20 years) they dismiss celiac disease... by dismissing celiac disease they dismiss neuropathy, deficiencies like calcium etc. etc.
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there are two issues with oats:
1) most commercial oats (including McCanns, Country Pride, and Quaker) have been shown to be contaminated by wheat such that they have gluten levels above 200ppm, which is pretty much universally considered UNsafe for celiacs. so, commercial oats and any general oat containing product ought to be right out.
2) you can get oats made in dedicated fields, harvested with dedicated machinery, and processed and shipped on dedicated equipment. these brands are more expensive and harder to find, but you can get it. BUT, studies have shown that about 10% of celiacs respond with the same immune response to avenin, the oat protein, as they do to gliadin, the wheat protein - because avenin is structurally very similar to gliadin. there is no blood test or other laboratory test that can be run to determine this. you would have to find it out for yourself by eating oats.
in summary - as has been said - maybe/maybe not. you would have to try gluten-free oats for yourself and find out if you're one of the 10% who gets intestinal damage from oats. if you tend to not be reactive to the smallest amounts, I wouldn't advise it, because you might not know. even if you do find you can tolerate them, it's advised not to have more than a 1/4 cup a day.
Just to add to this,
It depends on how you personally handle gluten-free.
Lets say your OK with the gluten-free oats... I try and simplfy things into what I can have and what I can't.
I haven't risked/tried oats for one specific reason. Its simpler just to exclude them ... and be done with it. I know myself, if I was to class oats as possibly safe then I'd end up taking chances on brands ...
However, this is how I deal with gluten-free diet. Everyone finds there own way. If yours is similar to mine then allowing any oats might lead elsewhere... (think of it as a gateway food
) I also do wonder if the reaction to avenin is consistent in individuals. Do some people always not react or might the same person depending on general health and other things react sometimes?
Many of us have other intolerances because our immune systems are over active. I would think its at least possible that some of us react sometimes and others mostly and some not at all?
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Whoa, I am surprised by some peoples comments. I am a gluten-free vegan and am perfectly healthy. I have never heard of anyone being vegan to heal themselves and well I guess I do not know many vegans in general. It is VERY easy as long as you watch what you eat and take care of yourself. Do research and make sure you eat well. You could talk to a nutritionist, too. I recently saw the one on my campus and she gave me some information on how to gain more protein and balance my meals. A vegan lifestyle can be just as good or bad as any, depending on what you eat. Good luck!
Your last point is true ....
I think the first thing to say is "no diet is perfectly healthy" ... or no diet is perfect ... Its easy to think there must be a perfect diet ... like the perfect job and the perfect partner ... etc. but just about anything that we eat is both good and bad. Mercury is the only naturally occuring element that has no known use in the human body, even through many of the other elements are extremely toxic ... and too much water can kill you as dead as too much salt.. (admitedly you need a LOT of water).
So, what I'm referring to is which diet is generally healthy... ? A vegan diet can be very healthy .. but it can also be missing a lot of nutrients if care is not taken.
A very easy and reasonably healthy diet is a bit of meat or fish and a lot of vegetables ... simply because it delivers mostly what you need. Its not a great diet or perfect its just easy to get a reasonable balance of nutrients, vitamins and minerals.
Riceguy illustrated good sources of different nutrients ... and this is good but you need to be aware of this to actively try and balance.
Everyone is different, some of us has pre-dispositions to not adsorbing or utilising specific nutrients. If those nutrients are hard to find in a vegan diet then that person is going to either struggle or need to actively include foods with a rich and easily digestable source of those nutrients.
For celiacs the situation is harder because there is a lot we cannot eat...
Non of this is impossible, it just takes thought, research and planning.
So its really not VERY easy for everyone.
That is the point I was making...
Put it this way ... when I get my hair cut the stylist will say how about like this, its easy to do ... well, its not easy for me... if it involves more than washing and letting it dry I'm not going to do it most days. Its not I'm not capable, I just don't have the enthusiasm...
If you set out to have a healthy vegan diet and do lots of research and preferably get blood tests to ensure your not missing anything then it can be very healthy.
If you set out and do the balance half-heartedly its easy to slip into something that's often not so healthy.
So really what I'm trying to say is it CAN bevery healthy if you want to put in the work... but be prepared to put in the work.
For Michelle RB this is les of a move and I can see why its a logical step because its mainly dairy she is cutting out. Its really not such a big step as someone eating lots of meat making the same step. However in general simply going vegan and not doing research is not a healthy choice because most people will not do th research and extra work required.
All you can do is try it and see how you feel.A fair statement except .... if we have a hole in our nutrition its unlikely to just manifest overnight. these things tend to be progressive as we gradually drain our bodies resources. Our bodies are adaptable, starve it and it will go into famine response.... as an extreme example.
Anyway, lots of things are easy ... once you know what your doing. I find skiing very easy.... so easy I can't understand anymore how anyone can fall over ...
Stick me on a double black diamond with my boots undone and I'll breeze down... I have to think hard to the first time I went down a bunny run to appreciate how someone could not feel perfectly at ease on ski's.
This is because skiing is second nature to me.... just as long term vegans find balancing food second nature. However that doesn't mean its simpe for someone to start off without good professional advice or a lot of reading anymore than a gluten-free diet is simple.
A gluten-free diet becomes second nature yet most of us start off badly.. and its not until we get xperienced that we find all the hidden gotchas.
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My daughter works on the weekends in a restaurant and just so you know your not alone... half the people who order ask for "special" things.... many people in this day and age have food allergies or sensitivities. There are a lot of special diets out there, its certainly not just you and most restaurants are use to the requests and such.
This is really what worries me .... how many of those "half the people" actually have celiac disease or a real severe allergy?
Basically I wory the resto's are becoming complacent? Even if it isn't half and just seems like it many of the resto's must get almost bored with the countless "special needs"
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Its also possible for delayed or recurring symptoms.
When i went 100% gluten-free I realised I can have a episode from gluten eaten a few weeks before I thought had been cleared out.
I had a friend who had seizures from gluten. At one point she got so paranoid she stopped eating some days and still got seizures...
A while later we decided the most probable reason was her body tucked away the toxin until she was literally eating herself .... and then the toxin (gluten) got released.
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A healthy vegan diet is not an easy thing.
As you recover your body needs protein to rebuild the villi and repair other damage.
This is not impossible on a began diet but its not easy... if you want to steer clear of other common allergens its even harder because so much vegan stuff contains soya. The problem I see is that soya is not a good source of nutrition ... it has all the right parts but it also has a lot of unwanted parts.
Just as for the general population getting most of your nutrition from wheat is not a good idea so for anyone with auto immune diseases getting most of your nutrition from soya is not. As for "easy to digest" soya certainly isn't.
However, the question of how much protein you need is a different matter ... most Westerners eat far more than they need.
An easy compromise might be just to cut back to one meal a day with some "good protein". (Most vegatables and legumes have poor protein)... and eat vegetables only at other meals. This way you are not missing things and still making the digestive process much easier for the most part.
Although a common allergen, if your not allergic you can suppliment a vegan diet with eggs .. fish is also easier to digest than red meat etc.
If you are deterimined to go vegan then do research it thoroughly and make sure you can balance your nutritional intake. A non vegan diet although not perfect does this more easily. For people who are already vegan they have experience and practice BUT I have seen far to many vegans who just look ill.
My ex had a colleage who thought she could feed her cats vegan food... they died on her one after another and eventually my ex reported her ... Obviously people are not cats
but I just say this to illustrate that what might seem healthy taken to extremes often isn't.... Just as eating way to much red meat isn't healthy, neither is an unbalanced vegan diet. Cat's are designed as carnivores... humans as omnivores.
Its totally possible to feed a cat chemically produced vegan food ... but its VERY VERY hard unless you have a lab inyour back yard and a advanced degree in nutrition and another in vetinary science ... (I'm choosing cats because they are an exreme carnivore)
A healthy vegan diet for humans is much easier but still no simple matter, especially for a celiac as many foods are already cut-out.
edits:
The reason to say this is you say "low in fat and easy to digest".
Most white fish are also
The reason to say this is you say "low in fat and easy to digest" ... chosing to be vegan is a BIG choice, I admire those who do it for ethical reasons but its hard work.
gluten-free is not a choice.... its also hard work .... so I'd say pick your battle? A vegan diet is not automatically a healthy diet...if you don't know what your doing its actually possible its very unhealthy for someone with food adsorbtion issues. Being a bit blunt sorry) you probably have enough health issues wihout adding the burden of balancing a healthy vegan diet on a daily basis???
Just as a balance 3 meals a day of meat is not healthy either!
As with a lot of life .... a middle of the road path is often an imperfect but easier option .... If you add some lean meat or fish to inemeal a day then its one less thing to worry about and have to balance along with other health issues???
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You also have to just get over the fact that you're asking additional questions and special ordering food. If you're embarrassed about this, it's going to be hard for you. I often check menus before I go and know exactly what I'm ordering before I go. To avoid making a "scene" I either sneak out to go to the "bathroom" before ordering and talk to the manager privately and order my meal through him/her. This works well for work lunches. I also try to sit on the end of a booth so I can talk quietly with the waiter. I go over all the potentials for CC and ask them to check those (and very they've checked when the meal comes). And I don't feel badly sending food back at all. Today I ordered a salad that came with a roll on top, and I sent it back right away. No guilt because I was very clear up front about what I needed. And I got over having people eat while I sit years ago! I tip generously when a server goes through all this extra effort so maybe doing that would help. And finally, I see eating out as a social experience. It's not about the food, it's about the people.
WoW, that's a good tip!
Overall resto's are pot luck ...
I worry about sending stuff back and them just removing the bread etc. and re-serving it.... I realise I have a perfect right...I just worry about someone in the kitchen on minimum wage respecting it!
Usually the manager will be more concerned that they don't get sued or something but someplaces just don't seem to take it seriously ... when you lay it on too thick you face the chance of them declining to serve you at all. I find places with a gluten-free menu, at least the staff are more aware ...
Often me worrying can really detract from enjoying the meal.
It doesn't help that many people chose gluten-free as a lifestyle choice... to them it doesn't matter really (I'm not saying you shouldn't have the right to know what's in your food) but if they eat round the bread or pick out croutons it doesn't help us.... Many resto's will then just assume we are being deliberatly a pain?
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I would suggest just baking gluten free brownies next time. Breathing in the gluten from the flour or brownie mix flying is like eating it.
It is eating it! Everything we breath in over a certain size is filtered out before it gets to the lungs and directed to the stomach.
BIG. The big particles are between 2.5 and 10 micrometers (from about 25 to 100 times thinner than a human hair). These particles are called PM10 (we say "P M ten", which stands for Particulate Matter up to 10 micrometers in size). These particles cause less severe health effects.SMALL. The small particles are smaller than 2.5 micrometers (100 times thinner than a human hair). These particles are called PM2.5 (we say "P M two point five", as in Particulate Matter up to 2.5 micrometers in size).
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Well, not for us. PM10 means its redirected to the stomach ... (There is a name for the process i can dig up if you like)... essentially we have tiny hairlike things inour respitory tract and anything larger than very very tiny is moved by these into the back of the nasal passage ... we then get a need to swallow and its put into the stomach.
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I haven't done this but a lot of people on here talk about the elimination diet. Where you have a very plain safe diet and then introduce new things to your diet once a week (I believe it is -- double check if it is once a week or every two weeks).
Are you lactose intolerant? Some people are in general and some people are during the beginning of the diet when their body is healing and then you can slowly bring it back into your diet after a while.
You can also keep a food journal/diary....write down what you are eating and drinking during the day that way if you feel sick later you can look back and see what you ate that day or during the week depending how quickley you react to things.
Have you checked your lotions, shampoos, soaps, etc to make sure they do not contain gluten?
Your doctor can do blood work to check for vitamin diffency etc that are not in a normal blood panel.
Be careful with how much food you are eliminating, that you are still taking in enough food. Are you taking gluten free vitamins? If not I would start b/c a lot of the time your body is not absorbing all of the nutrients and vitamins you are taking in.
Hope you can figure things out. Good luck with everything.
This is all excellent advice...
Unfortunately as others have pointed out, seeing the wrong MD or nutritionist can be more confusing. Unless they have actually had to eat gluten-free themselves they rarely "get it" regarding CC and industrial products.
Can you live off fresh vegetables and meat?
Our ancestors did for hundreds of thousands of years. Missouri didn't have rice until introduced by immigrants.
To make this healthy as possible you need a good mix.... as someone else said a mix of green vegetables and meats/fish ... although I eat rice I eat mostly this myself...
gluten-free vitamins are as said a good idea until your body recovers its ability to adsorb food.
Other than these pointers you are exactly where I was after 6 months gluten-free.
After going 100% gluten-free, no prepared foods, no gluten in the house at all and not eating anything I didn't make myself I got the final jigsaw piece.
I am now much less strict in terms of not eating out .. but I do sometimes get ill when I do... however my kitchen is 100% gluten-free so if I do get ill I can "retreat" to my safe haven whilst I recover and stop compounding symptoms...
My trigger for this was a gluten enriched shampoo. I ended up having a very embarassing poop incident and had to go home and clean up. I was so upset and whilst showering actually read the bottle... "enriched with pure wheat protein" (nt even in small letters, a big splash across the front).
This was it for me .... I went through the whole house and binned everything not gluten-free.
I was upset at the time and ruthless ......
6 weeks later I couldn't believe how my life had changed and how much gluten must have been slipping in.
Once you get to this point its much much easier .... you spot CC earlier and know where it came from or at least your 100% sure what it isn't!
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I agree that it is frustrating that people have to suffer so long to get a diagnosis. It's really hard sometimes to reconcile making oneself sick to get a positive biopsy.
Hypothetically
An executive decree has just passed and we are now the head of the Celiac Consortium of the World. We have to decide the best way to diagnose people. What would be our proposal? What would strike the ideal balance between diagnosing the right people (not misdiagnosing positive or negative) and keeping the suffering to a minimum? Something that could be scientifically validated I mean, not just a "listen to your body" kind of thing.
Ok, first thing we need a study BUT that study needs a control.
Italy manages to screen everyone at school.
Scientifically you can't have a perfect test.... you need to have one that has either flase negatives or false positives but screen everyone at school and awareness sky rockets. We need more accurate controls on blood tests, most studies have to presume that celiac disease is so rare in the general population that serology for the general population is used as a control. We need realistic figures for all age groups, not apply a general figure to toddlers...
The next big flaw in most comparitive diagnostic studies is that people actually get gluten-free diets when they say they do. Unfortunately we know this is often not the case.
For a control we ned a set of volunteers who are given only food tested to be 100% gluten-free. Supposing we had the resources we would rent a huge house and gut the kitchens .. make them 100% gluten-free and carry out the tests here. The house would need to be in a area NOT growing wheat...
No food would be allowed in that was not TESTED... (and I mean tested ... full whack GC-MS so the house needs its own lab, sterile of gluten)...
Everyone in the study, controls and not would be fed 100% tested food... we would be tested daily for blood counts .. and the fluctuations mapped.
A second house would house the "eating gluten group". Everyone here would be the "normal test" and also get blood tests daily... anyone who then tests positive would be moved to the gluten-free house and removed from the control group.
Scotland
in Traveling with Celiac Disease
Posted
Actually C-UK charge resto's to register. This more or less limits them to places that really shouldn't be called resto's but fast food joints since real resto's rarely pay uness they have a real good reason (like the owner is coeliac). London has 3 resto's listed .. One from Worral Smith (TV chef) and then La tasca and Smolensky's.
La Tasca is really bad Tapas ... I have used them in desperation but I always feel bad going somewhere with such poor food when I'm the reason.
Smolensky's is not bad... at leaast unpretentious diner style food (burgers, ribs, steaks)... though stray off the grill and they are really poor as well. They use frozen shrimps.. (UGGGH)... (at least its a step up from La Tasca where pretty much all the food sucks)
My local Italian does gluten-free pasta ... as well as a lot of gluten-free options.. they make real food....though they can't afford the fees C-UK demand.
Beware of anything C-UK do and even more beware of anytihng they publish. They are a very nasty organisation that lie and hide studies as a matter of course and withhold results from their members.
The "Directors" of CUK have their own business which they run from the charitiy HQ but pay no rent...
CUK have actively published articles denying depression and neurological symptoms of celiac disease. Have hidden studies and campaigned the govt. to not make listing wheat compulsary ...