gfp

That B&B sounds great. Is there a supermarket-like place nearby where you can buy new cheap pots pans and basic foodstuffs like meat and veg? How far did you have to go to get that sort of things, or did you rely on markets?

Just around the corner... but the big supermarket in Termini is also real close.

I know two things really. Gluten makes me feel bad and gives me the runs when I eat it. This isn't proof that it's causing damage. This is the crux of my psychological turmoil. No proof. Without a Celiac diagnosis, I can never be 100% sure it really is the gluten. I mean sure...you eat a few cookies and get the runs...what else could it be right? I can be 99.9999% sure...but there will always be that small speck of doubt. Without 100% certainty, there will always be that desire to

You are so funny.

Hawkfire, I am not going to argue with you, you clearly have your own interpretation and have your mind set on it. Eating pork for you would be wrong because you consider it morally reprehensible. Eating pork for me is not wrong and it does not make me less of a Christian than you.

If you wonder why people are hostile towards you, it's because you are judging all of us and holding us to your personal beliefs.

Well said Carla

HawkFire, these are nice folks ... Ive know them a long time and although I don't share the religion many have I accept their beliefs... just so long as they are beliefs...

Hundreds of millions of Hindu's believe eating cows is wrong... and they believe in this every bit as much as you do... but its not fact... As Carla say's your presenting YOUR interpretation of the Bible as THE interpretation... whereas to me it is no more valid than any other version or the Hindi holy works...

If a Hindu tells you your religion is WRONG and your eating BEEF is bad then I'm sure you would think it non of their business.

I beleive that you beleive this but you can't expect millions of people to take your interpretation or that of small sects and be told thier religion is wrong...

I don't believe in god anyway but regardless if I say its possible God created the earth.(for the sake of peace).. religion was still created by man and is therefore flawed. Hence its a matter of belief and tradition

Your initial arguament that this isn't on religious grounds seems somewhat marred when you then write a veritable essay quoting the bible. If god is so flawless surely he wouldn't send Peter the vision that would so easily be misinterpreted? or perhaps God intended people to make up their own minds?

I do not know that you would consider me a patriotic American. I do not support the wars we're engaged in. I simply couldn't find a peace symbol to use that had flowers in it and the plain ones were too stark for me.

Not to get political but some (including me) would view it as patriotic not to just blindly support a war

I do not agree that the FDA approves safe drugs

Well it approves some safe drugs and it approves some unsafe ones and it also doesn't approve some safe ones due to political pressure...

or that MSG is harmless or that Dairy is an appropriate source of calcium or that vitamin suppliments are beneficial to any human being. All of those statements can be argued against as well as my belief that pork is what I say it is and what I believe it is.

Not really because the difference is you state these are beliefs... that's OK because beliefs are not always based on fact...

Personally I stay away from MSG... and I try and limit dairy but I love cheese... HOWEVER that doesn't mean I think its an appropriate source of calcium... or that its good for any mammal that is past nursing... I just like cheese. (The raw stuff with real rennet and unpasturised)

I am convinced that pork is bad for you, that the animal is not fit for human consumption based on the information I provided. Obviously, for some, independent thought is frightening. You fear what you cannot control. Let me explain to you as kindly as I can that it is ok for me to have a belief, an opinion, a conviction or whatever you want to label it (choose your insulting take on it) and have my opinion, my conviction, my belief not cause you any harm whatsoever. You can go along your merry way with your convictions and I will not mind one bit if you chose to eat pork, eat MSG, wear pink with purple polk-a-dots or jump rope on one foot while brushing your teeth. Honestly, you'd think my position on pork was going to alter the universe or harm helpless children the way you bristle. Take a deep breath and realize you cannot control me- which is- after all, what this is truely about. - Your need to control what I believe.

Let me answer it in reverse....

Firstly I'm concerned not what you believe, I might diagree with you but I'll fight tooth and nail for your right to believe it! What I'm concerned about is that many of the members here already have a huge amount of restriction on their diets and many struggle to find enough variety...

I personally believe Soy is bad... I can site real scientific studies as to why.. or you can find them yourself or you can not... or you might already agree...

So my worry here is people are losing an extra food because of incorrect facts you posted... and the bottom line for me as to wondering if I should or should not eat pork is simple... they are intellegent animals.

What I do disagree with is pseudo science presented as science.... and you dismissing the documented scientific proof that 2kids4me has presented VERY WELL.

Secondly you are citing sources which are pseudo-scientific in nature... and contain myths and fables as part of scientific arguament... You are more than welcome to your opinion... if you are not happy eating pork then don't... but if you are going to post things you claim to be fact at least have the courtousy to admit when you are wrong...

If you don't beleive 2kids4me you can check this out yourself...

Oh, I read about the tube that runs down the back of the leg to drain pus and I just could never eat it again.

which I presume you got here

The pig is so poisonous and filthy, that nature had to prepare him a sewer line or canal running down each leg with an outlet in the bottom of the foot. Out of this hole oozes pus and filth his body cannot pass into its system fast enough. Some of this pus gets into the meat of the pig

a large amount of what you claim is fact is easily disnmissed by dicsecting a pig... you don't need to do it yourself... you can ask someone does it everyday like a butcher... or visit an abbatoir. Its just plain wrong, and fear mongering... and did I mention wrong!

Pig's bodies contain many toxins, worms and latent diseases. Although some of these infestations are harbored in other animals, modern veterinarians say that pigs are far more predisposed to these illnesses than other animals

.....One in six people in the US and Canada has trichinosis from eating trichina worms which are found in pork.

None of the vets I know think this... and lots of animals also eat poop... like rabbits and lots of animals have toxins, worms and latent diseases. As was pointed out trichinosis is extremely rare in the US and most cases are from chicken or turkey NOT pigs!

From 1991 to 1996, an annual average of 12 cases per year were reported in the United States. The number of cases has decreased because of legislation prohibiting the feeding of raw meat garbage to hogs, increased commercial and home freezing of pork, and the public awareness of the danger of eating raw or undercooked pork products. Today, one of the primary causes of trichinosis in America is the consumption of raw or undercooked wild game meats.

Compare that to 90 peple on average a year killed by lightning... and its insignificant...

Influenza (flu) is one of the most famous illnesses which pigs share with humans. This illness is harbored in the lungs of pigs during the summer months and tends to affect pigs and humans in the cooler months. Sausage contains bits of pigs' lungs, so those who eat pork sausage tend to suffer more during epidemics of influenza.

Once again what about turkeys and birds?

Typically, influenza is transmitted from infected mammals through the air by coughs or sneezes, creating aerosols containing the virus, and from infected birds through their droppings. Influenza can also be transmitted by saliva, nasal secretions, feces and blood. Infections occur through contact with these bodily fluids or with contaminated surfaces. Flu viruses can remain infectious for about one week at human body temperature, over 30 days at 0

This sounds great! I'm heading to Rome starting Friday. Any other suggestions?

Really just check the list.... Romans LOVE food and celaic is very well known....

Don't be put off by distance, Rome is smaller than you think... but do watch out for the metro closing !!!!

If you want to risk other places then there are some FANTASTIC resto's....

I can look through my momento boxes... I usually collect cards, take wine labels etc and write a little ..

For anyone interested in the B&B with kitchen... its simply called Budget B&B ... www.budgetbedandbreakfast.it

The operation is a bit funny... you have to actually telephone them to get them to meet you ??? or set a firm time in an email! We arrived no phone and August in the middle of a heatwave... BUT having the kitchen is GREAT... and pans and stuff really are dead cheap.. its also cheapish but clean so you can concentrate on spending money on food and wine...

Actual content depends on which sea it was from. But table salt is only NaCl, and how could that be good for you?

Well firstly almopst noone has long term salt deficiency... or low Na... so less salt is proably better for almost everyone BUT ocean salt is actually fairly constant in proportions and even ppt of total salts doesn't vary enormously.(outside the ploar regions and persian gulf which is almost a sea within a sea... if ultimately connected to the oceans. local variations occur due to high runoff .. for instance the amazon has a very low concentration but its still not huge.... other things that make a difference are local geology, for instance areas with a high orthoclase (KAlSi3O8) content (found in many granites) will have slightly higher K than a plagioclase area Na|Ca solid solution series with the same cat-ion... (Si2O6) (two less O2's because of the valency of Na and Ca.. and similarly sediment derived from these... But its really small... We (geologists) use these are paleo-markers etc. I could look up the numbers but ...??

Anyway... most table salt is from the Zechstein (late Permian) which is before we started wholescale dumping of toxic metals into the sea... along with trans-uranics... however I don't worry about that

The reason I corrected you was ytou wrote 25% of which people who are not scientists could take to mean they can have 4x as much!

Ultimately all salt is sea salt .... Ok there are lake deposts too (indeed the Russians made the Aral sea into a huge saltpan by accident...) but it all undergoes the same process as sea salt... evaporation exceeds influx ... and almost all salt deposits are mixed and layered... in the same order...Ive seen some really weird salt's .. one almost pure SrCl I drilled through... I spotted it on a log run and we had to dump the mud from the radioactivity... (ahem creating our own mini dustbowl in the Sahara) killed off everything in site... I had sand bulldozed over it later... (lots of that in the sahara) .. anyway... just didn't want people thinking they can have 4x as much sea salt

Thought I'd add this - food for thought... and yes, if you have concerns about consuming any food product, then dont eat it.

Humans are the only animal that consumes highly processed food (or feeds it to other animals). We feed animals an unnatural diet (like corn and grain to a cow who is meant to eat grasses)

Mushrooms grow best in manure - and we eat them with no problem.

We eat a variety of vegetables that grow out of the ground, and organic or not, bugs, and rodents visit the garden daily .

We eat foods from cans and junk food like chips, chocolate, ice cream, cake, pop........ we drink milk after we are weaned and then wonder why we have trouble digesting it...

For the most "intelligent" creature on this planet, we cringe at the digestive processes in animals that have evolved in nature and work quite well... yet we (collective "we" meaning society as a whole) assault our own digestive tract daily.

The gluten free diet is probably one of the healthier diets out there.

Again, ........eat what you feel comfortable eating

Sandy

I forgot about the rabbit! My own dog likes to eat deer poop, it must be a delicacy for her!

Must try some... though I guess watch out for ticks

but hey, lets not stop .. vegetables are disgusting... they grow in soil where animals have rotted and pooped...

True...however my gripe about Gluten Intolerance is...it's a pretty restrictive lifestyle AND according to my doctor and the medical community at large, I don't have a "disease".

Well they mean they don't have anything they can cure you from.... their mistake not yours!

This frustrates the hell out of me..in addition to the constant "food lust" that someone commented on yesterday.

Erm... OK stop.... think about it... you have an addiction of sorts... you also have +ve blood work.... but you wouldn't feel cravings if it wasn't affecting you....

Add to this the constant doubts a non diagnosis gives you...."perhaps it really isn't the gluten"(voices in Jerry's head speaking) and you have Jerry wanting to keep checking to see if it still makes him sick.

If I had villous atrophy, I would be 100% certain....anything less just leaves me hanging.

It helps to just get it out there and say it...

OK, lets look at this differently.....

If you smoked would you wait for the positive biopsy to confirm lung cancer?

However some people smoke 100 a day and never get it but that's partly because many of them die of emphysema first .... or they end up loosing a limb etc.

There is far more to gluten induced damage than villous atrophy... and frankly most of it is FAR scarier than villous atrophy and accompanying maladsorbtion... lets face it D is embarassing but not fatal... Im betting your a tough sporty guy and a few gut pains don't worry you... they don't really bother me, they are just annoying... like the D ...

What keeps me away from gluten is exactly what fiddle faddle just said... + mood swings

Frankly if it was only D and cramps I would be back on gluten like a shot... just for beer and pizza...

Try and think of this longer term... your +ve blood tests and fact you get cravings are proof you are gluten intolerant and making a distinction between that and having villous atrophy is ... well semantics... and probably just a matter of time...

Meanwhile ..... you could be lining yourself up for far more serious stuff that might not be fixable!

um, just to clarify, the food ferments it doesnt rot..... they are meant to eat grasses and legumes.... ranges cows and hay (alfalfa) fed cows do better than any fed the corn based feed.

Sandy

I know I was just writing in the "style" of the articles about pigs...

On the same vein, sheeps stomachs are full of bacteria YUCK ... (of course so are ours and every other mammal...) Rattle snakes are full of venom... but they sure as heck grill up pretty good etc. etc. and those bacteria in sheeps stomach's .. oh yep many of you are taking them in pill form as probiotics...

I'm just pointing out that a whole thread on "pigs are dirty" makes no sense ... comparing pigs to rats is beyond silly... pigs and bears perhaps... rats and rabbits (YUMM) but rabbits eat their own poop.... since they lack a ruminant stomach they re-eat their poop to get more nourishment from it...

Good evenin' everyone,

Does anyone know what brands of frozen potato chips/wedges we can have? Last time I checked my arm went numb from being stuck in the freezer checking ingredients, didnt have any luck though.

I had nandos chicken the other night, it turns out that they cook all the chicken on the same grill so the gluteny bbq chicken residue ends up on anything cooked on the grill, found that one out the hard way! No-one in the shop knew anything about gluten either when I attempted to double check that the non bbq chicken was safe. They even told me that the items on the menu with the "G" next to them were gluten free, luckily I had investigated the website earlier and the "G" actually means "contains gluten" So be careful!

Thanks in advance for any chippy recs

When I was back in the UK the Nando's hot sauce (not BBQ) was for sale... and specifically said "MAY contain traces of gluten"

Of course your stuff might be different or the stuff used in the resto's different to what's sold in supermarkets.. but it might be worth checking?

I did no bashing or "smashing down" in my responses, yet was accused of being prejudiced, that I have a personal problem with the question, that I am "offended on the behalf of a pig," and that I am belligerent.

Who exactly was being nasty here?

Michelle

Sorry but I agree...

Almost every "fact" Hawkfire posted was incorrect....

OK, they read a bad article (no problem) but when the proof it is not correct is posted its polite to acknowledge it...not ignore the proof...

@Fiddle-Faddle .. not like your going to eat pork anyway but...

Lovegrov is correct... and the reason is really obvious....if you look at it from a different perspective!

i.e what we know and don't ....

Gluten doesn't actually hurt us... it is the products it breaks down into that causes the damage. (This we do know although we are not sure exactly which part... just it must be a amino acid sequence present in wheat (gluten), rye (aveline (sp?)) and barley (horedine) ... so the "gluten" must be digested in order to cause a autoimmune response...

These products are volatile and transitory... I would say eating pig stomach would not be clever or sausages made from intestines because this is where the "gluten" attaches... but the actual flesh means the amino acid chains have to break down to component amino acids to be reconstructed as pig protein... fat is perhaps different BUT it would only be put into fat if the pig was itself celiac.. (not impossible and indeed there is a condition very similar to celiac disease in pigs with soya protein) ... sadly there is more money in why pigs fail to thrive than why kids fail to thrive ....

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This man seems to be fairly objective and points out the science behind not eating Pork. He makes very good points.

No he doesn't, he doesn't even look at science...

He mixes fact., fiction and religious dogma ...

As an example... I could take it from your avatar your a patriotic American ?

I could list lots of bad things about America, I could ignore all the great things your nation has achieved and just dig up the bad..

I can point out that not only does Leviticus condone slavery, it seperates it into treatment of Isrealite and Judeaic slaves and everyone else... just like the US did with African and white slaves (yes there were thousands of white slaves too they were just treated as people not property according to a modified Leviticus)

But WHY?

If I wanted to listen to that drivel I could download Ben Laden's rantings!

Seriously what has the fact a pig can survive a snake bite got to do with anything... So did St. Paul and it was seen as a miracle not proof he was contaminated!

The article you posted is simply the pig equaivalent .. I have lived next to pigs and they are not dirty, indeed they are cleaner than dogs... they are freakin noisy so I don't recommend it! I also ate them after and helped slaughter them humanely! (they were also sorta pets) ..

I could write as much about a cow... UGGGH the food basically ROTS in their stomach... etc... How about fish? They are mostly either scavengers or eat other fish.. in most ways the hunters are the healthiest .. except they concentrate heavy metals being at the top of the food chain.

One reason is gluten damages the endorphin receptors which control your bodies moods...

Your body releases endorphins to make you feel happy but they don't all attach and hence the body tries more.. jence a seesaw effect..

As they self repair it gets less.

If you are eating CODEX gluten-free.. (not real gluten-free) then these happen to me with trace amounts..

If I think I got glutened by accident first thing I do is use immodium sub-lingual... quite a few people here seem to have followed and its working for them.

These attach to the receptors thus blocking them for the gluten which damages them.

A perhaps useful side effecvt is they stop D as well (said tongue in cheek)

Travelling to rome at Easter with Coeliac teenager. Any recommendations of places to eat.

Absolutely....

For a cheap night you can try the pizzeria at Polyclinique ...

Adresses can be found here...

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Very close to the metro stop...

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indirizzo: V. Bari, 11.A

cap 00100

Tel./Fax:

0644291958

Really nice people and gluten-free options...

You can try splashing out at

Hotel Ristorante Alexandra

indirizzo: Via Veneto,18

Tel./Fax:

06.4881943(hotel); 06.4823618(ristorante)

However many places will be coeliac (celiachia) aware... I stopped in a B&B with a kitchen and you can buy cheap pans and stuff in a supermarket... for a backup. Its a celiac heaven, there is a new gluten-free supermarket just outa town as well... it was just starting up last time I was there and advertised on buses (seriously)...

I switched to sea salt (it has to be gray, or some off color or it's too refined) I really like it. It has about 1/4 of the amount of sodium and the flavor is more complex. I don't know how it would affect your swelling though.

Perhaps 1/4 less sodium..(more Mg++, Ca++ and K+). but certainly not 1/4 of the sodium..

taste/texture wise its nicer for me but health wise it lacks Iodine ..and contains appreciable sulfates (sulphates)..

I can expand for others if anyone wants... can't believe I need to for Jestgar...

Jerry,

Its just a decision....

Now you can either make it once or make it everyday....

Which is easier?

(unusually short post but really think about it like that)

TELL HIM NOW!!!!!!!!

Seriously... most of us have problems with people who knew us BEFORE diagnosis as GFD...

Its harder for long standing friends and relatives to accept but whenever I meet someone new they just either accept it or not.

My girlfriend never knew me before... she never questions it ... my ex-wife never really believed it... she would on one level but not another.. the sooner the better... just avoid symptoms and talk about loing term damage/effects... if he can't hack it from the beginning then sorry.. but your best finding out sooner rather than later... honestly I don't think later will make it easier to accept or not, just harder as he starts to think you have some eating disorder by avoiding food...

I am in an awful situation I have just started working for the NHS and they have told me to make myself ill ready for biopsy

They might be doing you a favour or think they are or it could be a double edged sword... read on...to the end to prevent jumping to conclusions.

I'm pretty certain that they can't force you to eat gluten against your will, indeed worded the correct way it would amount to deliberatly poisioning someone. Bear this in mind...as you read on...

Celiac is a commercial business in the UK, the NHS pays way over the odds for gluten-free food for prescription, about 4-5 times the going rate in a supermarket for the same thing. Many NHS trusts are trying to crack down on the amount but not the cost???

Secondly CUK is a "charity" that shares office space, directors etc. with "The coeliac trading company" which is NOT a charity...

Don't take my word, you can do a search at companies house on the internet...

The directors are presumably paid as well for consultancy ...

CUK advises the NHS....

Next CUK only accepts biopsy proven coelaics... this flies in the face of current research...

Please take some time to read up.... these are real medical papers...

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Also: Follow-Up to the Catassi Study -- Scandinavia

Colin, et al, published a follow-up study to the Catassi (Coeliac Disease in the Year 2000:Exploring the Iceberg - University of Ancona, Italy) in the Scandinavian Journal of Gastroenterology 28(7):595-8, 1993, which demonstrated that approximately one third of the patients from the Catassi Study who had raised antibodies but no villous atrophy, did have villous atrophy when tested two years later. These results raise the number of diagnosed celiacs from the Catassi, et al study to over 1 in 200.

Specifically this may be useful

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"Neurologic manifestations of gluten sensitivity are a scientific fact, not a theological issue. Whilst the debate continues, we owe it to our patients to screen them effectively for gluten sensitivity with the simple widely available antigliadin antibody test so that we do not in the meantime deprive them of a harmless but potentially effective treatment in the form of a gluten-free diet."

In other words they could be damaging you, even giving you organ damage that is never repairable, neurological damage etc.

gfp, i'm not jealous of her. i have been single my whole entire life, I am used to everyone else dating people, and it was me who encouraged her that this is a guy she should date. It'd be like I am turnin on my own advice if I was jealous.

Fair enough but its not me (or the board) I asked you to answer to but yourself .... because

i have been single my whole entire life, I am used to everyone else dating people

There's nothing wrong with this... heck I'm jealous of lots of people and friends... sometimes not their whole life but sometimes just parts of it...

Very few people I suspect can say they are not at all jealous of anyone....

It'd be like I am turnin on my own advice if I was jealous.

The only important things I learned about jealousy is its OK and that its best in the open... I often tell friends, hey that's great I'm really jealous...

I never have liked friends like that, who forget about the rest of the world once they are datin someone, and its kinda ironic she used to agree.

Basically she said shes been at her bfs place almost all the time (like i needed to know that!),

Anyway, if you were the one encouraged her then of course she expects you to be interested! And she did communicate, it was just about her and her relationship... but at the time you wanted to discuss other things....

You know this is best done face to face... emails and stuff (and this board) all miss facial expression and the persons response...

Emails force people to answer questions... like you say you were hurt so she makes an excuse but of you were sitting together it could have been a hug instead!

I am starting to think this could be the case for many non-celiacs, but it's something we just don't know for sure. I do think it's dangerous, however, to present yourself as being a celiac and claiming you were cured as he was doing. I believe there are different levels of gluten intolerance, some of which may be caused by candida (or Lyme), but for many people with gluten intolerance and ALL people with celiac, it's gluten-free for life.

On the one hand, I think my own intolerance may be lessened when I get the Lyme under control, but on the other hand, my family has a history of stomach problems, so I think it will always be an issue ...

Yep true and the same for momma goose's post...

The problem is though your either celiac or not it doesn't happen overnight....

Many of us went years before diagnosis and the symptoms gradually presenting themselves, often so slowly we think its normal, getting older etc.

Having candida or lyme seems to be a trigger... this is just my guesswork now but imagine a pre-diagnosis celiac with no discernable villi damage from random biopsy... but +ve bloodwork (or not)...

They can eat gluten and not show symptoms, specially not gastric but they are damaging themselves... inparticualr the villi are being destroyed but they are regenerating faster...

One day we get older... stressed, you name it perhaps pregnancy or a illness and suddenly the villi are not repairing as fast as they are destroyed....however up to thisd time we were still giving ourselves increased cancer risk (which is because the cells are forced to divide and regenerate) and stressing the thyroid and many mopre bad things...

If this stress was candida (or lyme) then curing the candida problem will put them back in the villi not visibly damaged phase...

The chance is sooner or later they will pass back...

Hence for the poster they are probably eating gluten and doing themselves thyroid and neuro damage... and are a timebomb...

If it isn't possible then perhaps the GIG of North America and Scott shouldn't post such things. I believe them to be reliable sources of valuable information.

Well the problem is two-fold.

I know that they also say that wheat grass and barley grass has no gluten in it. Theoretically this is probably true, but they both sure make me sick! I would say it's the same for distillation, it's just not a perfect process.

This is the first reason, except two distillations are never the same ... especially in a mixed solution with hundreds of consituents and where the presence of one affects the BP of another (called an azeotrope) ... other things like vewry small changes in temp and air presure also affect it... but the effects are rather unpredicatble because one small change can effect something else...

As a side note alcohol is a poison to the body. Could it be possible that some people just don't tolerate alcohol regardless of the source? People react to things differently. What might cause a person a great buzz to alcohol can cause another a nasty mood and a hangover to boot.

Just a thought.

Probably, partly... If I oly drink good wine Im fine, I can drink 3 bottles and no after effects (apart from getting drunk)... but when I touch vodka or even stuff like colored cognacs (still made from grapes just with caramel color) I get randomly sick...

One possible reason is the alcohol can aid very small amounts of gluten across the gut/blood barrier through what are called ion-gates.

All distilled alcohols are gluten-free.

Cite your source ...

It is up to you to verify that the product remains gluten-free by checking the ingredients yourself, or by contacting the manufacturer.

You know since I moved my appartment is too small to have a LCMS .. how do you suggest I verify this?

O.k. guys don't shoot the messenger. I cannot find the research at this moment. I think I read it in a book, can't remember off the top of my head but here is an example to back up what I said. Here is from celiac.com's own page. https://www.celiac.com/st_prod.html?p_prodi...-23106011054.bc

Celiac.com 12/10/2000 - As reported in Ann Whelan's September/October issue of Gluten-Free Living, the American Dietetic Association (ADA) has released the 6th edition of its Manual of Clinical Dietetics, which offers revised guidelines for the treatment of celiac disease. This manual is currently used by hospitals and doctors all over North America, and represents the most up-to-date source of information with regard to the dietary treatment of various illnesses. The new standards set in this publication conform more closely with current international standards. Included on their safe list are items that have been on Celiac.com's safe list for over five years, including: amaranth, buckwheat, distilled vinegar (no matter what its source), distilled alcoholic beverages (including rum, gin, whiskey and vodka), millet, quinoa and teff.

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Alcohol and vinegar that are properly distilled should not contain any harmful gluten peptides (or prolomines). Research indicates that the gluten peptide is too large to carry over in the distillation process. This leaves the resultant liquid gluten-free unless a gluten-containing additive is inserted after the distillation process. Alcohols and vinegars should be carefully investigated for additives before use. Malt vinegars are not distilled and therefore are not gluten-free.

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Alcohol that's properly distilled shouldn't contain any harmful gluten. Research indicates that the peptide is too large to carry over in the distillation process. Beer is a definite no-no. You might want to consider staying away from alcohol altogether (like the author of this site). This might seem drastic to some but our health is at stake. Wine from the Liquor store might bother your stomach, like it does mine possibly because of Sulfites as preserative to give it a longer shelf life. Home made Wine wthout any added ingredients in moderation seems to be O.K.

-Laurie

Unfortunately I have to call BS....(not on you on the "papers')

You can't (in a scientific paper just say "current research indicates" you must site the paper, publication and authors... and that paper should contain the original methods and analytic process.... etc.

Unfortunately its not uncommon in general but especially in quasi-science like medicine where most doctors don't really understand science. Indeed this method was pionerred more or less by the tobacco companies... where they would conduct studies indicating "current research show tobacco doesn't cause ....<>"

The problem is that this sort of myth propogates easily because noone ever sites the original source... they think the other person must have actually read it... hence the citation principle for scientific papers being compulsary... it doesn't mean they don't mean well. it just means they never did the research themself nor saw anyone elses research... they just saw people mention other research and presume they must have seen it....

If size had ANYTHING to do with distillation then you could mix fuel oil and water and the fuel oil would be too large to "carry over in the distillation process." ... try it, its not yet its many times larger than water!

This basic paper explains the actual process of distillation...

Note:

References

1. Abd el-Qade r, Z., Hallett, W .L.H. Combustio n Inst. Canadian Sect. 2000 Meeting, 42-1 - 4 2-6

2. Tam im, J., Ha llett, W.L .H., Chem. Eng. Science 50, 2933-2942 (19 95).

3. Hallett, W .L.H., Combustion & Flame 121, 334-344 (2000 ).

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No, different thread. This one had to do with family not being supportive. We ALL might be talking about different threads! The one with a deleted gfp post and several other deleted posts was about family being unsupportive.

we could be talkiung about 3 different threads (now Im dizzy) ...

but I guess that's worse????

I think what I'm trying to say is a lot of threads might get started by people we feel are niaeve ... but something is wrong when the whole board gets sucked in....

If one nasty person hijacked that thread then if we all acted properly (and I know non of us are perfect) then it shouldn't really have happened, they should have been moderated straight away and warned...

The problem is by the time Scott steps in the whole thing has snowballed.... so it ends up being a severe pruning because there are insults flying everywhere...

If we just had a moderator delete that one post and put a message it was deleted because it was deliberatly provoking/insulting or whatever then either the person should shut up OR they will keep posting and get banned if Scott thinks they deserve it..

IMHO what happens is people post back and then even mods post back but not as mods... I don't know what a mod can do (using the SW and permissions Scott has defined) but they should be able to delete that offending post before the whole thing gets out of hand...

Secondly poeple who know better and I know are nice people had responded badly to the original poster... IMHO ... and the original poster was the one who probably lost out... I doubt he/she meant to provoke the reaction they did... I think they were just misguided but either way people could have been a little more welcoming IMHO and been more gentle in thier corrections...

From the original post I think the poster did beleive they had cured themselves... and they may well have got rid of the gastro symptoms if they were borderline anyway... but now the poor person is probably damaging themselves without realising it.

If we could have encouraged them to stay and read other peoples experiences we could maybe... just maybe have stopped them being really ill later.. or even getting a terminal disease...

I learn a lot from this board, its all about differing experiences, opinions and knowledge that we share...I think that somtimes the negative replies start happening when someone new comes on board claiming cures, or disagreeing with the long time gluten free ... or perhaps coming in with expectations that aren't met.

We all have to reply like we might meet the person some day, I want to be able to smile and say hello...not run for cover cause of something I said, or walk up to the other person and argue.

Yes ... I wish I put it that way ....

Sorry ... but if she's hiding food then is she perhaps also cheating on her diet?