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DJFL77I

Stupid Liver ?

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So ever since being diagnosed in June.. my Liver enzymes have always been elevated..  actually one time they did drop back to normal strangely enough when I was still undiagnosed and still eating gluten..  but ever since than they've been creeping back up...

My previous Doctor did all the tests... Hep A,B, C ...  Autoimmune,  hemochromatosis.. and a bunch of other stuff...  everything came back negative.. or like he always liked to say "Everything looks beautiful"...

Now just recently my new GI Doctor ran some new blood work because he wanted to look at Liver again... and just looking at the results online everything looks in normal range..  

My (tTG) IgA level dropped from 100+ to 13   in 5 months.. had them checked first time last month since going gluten free..   I've also noticed a few things heal within those 5 months and go away.. which I'm pretty sure now was being caused by the celiac..

But this stupid Liver never wants to go back to where it belongs... even though based on all the tests there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it?

Is it still the Celiac affecting it since 13 is still considered high / active ?  0 - 3 is normal range based on the Lab...

 

 

 

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How high are the liver enzymes? Elevated liver enzymes was what led to my celiac disease diagnosis about 18 years ago. They were never real high but it still worried me as they were that way for 12-13 years before I got celiac disease diagnosis. Like you my GP had no clue about what was causing it and tested me for all the heps and other stuff but not celiac disease. I finally went to a gastro doc and the first thing he tested me for was celiac disease, which was positive. Within three months or so of starting to eat gluten free the liver enzymes normalized and have been good ever since.

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19 hours ago, trents said:

How high are the liver enzymes? Elevated liver enzymes was what led to my celiac disease diagnosis about 18 years ago. They were never real high but it still worried me as they were that way for 12-13 years before I got celiac disease diagnosis. Like you my GP had no clue about what was causing it and tested me for all the heps and other stuff but not celiac disease. I finally went to a gastro doc and the first thing he tested me for was celiac disease, which was positive. Within three months or so of starting to eat gluten free the liver enzymes normalized and have been good ever since.

Well they were like 44 and 119 when I first went in before being diagnosed.. then about a month later they dropped 50 percent to like 22 and 55.....   Now they're 45 and 165

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Dr office just called and said all the blood work looks good...     antinuclear antibody (ANA Factor) is a bit elevated but he said that's common and insignificant...

He said the elevated Liver enzymes are because of the Celiac still not off yet...   re evaluate in 6-12 months

 

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On 12/28/2020 at 4:17 PM, DJFL77I said:

Dr office just called and said all the blood work looks good...     antinuclear antibody (ANA Factor) is a bit elevated but he said that's common and insignificant...

He said the elevated Liver enzymes are because of the Celiac still not off yet...   re evaluate in 6-12 months

 

DJFL,

Try taking you some Befotiamine the Fat Soluble B1.....with your meals....

Elevated Liver Enyzmes can be a sign of a Thiamine deficiency....

IF you don't drink.....doctor's never think that it could be a Vitamin Deficiency...

See this research on how doctors check for Elevated Liver Enzymes as "Test" for a  early sign of a Thiamine deficiency in Alcoholics...

Here is the research entitled "Biomarkers in Alcohol Misuse: Their Role in the Prevention and Detection of Thiamine Deficiency"

https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/44/2/177/185522

See their paragraph on "Transaminases (Temporarily Elevated) AST and ALT" which is what you are describing.

Any over reliance of CARBS will trigger elevated Liver Enzymes as an early Sign of a Thiamine deficiency.....

HFCS metabolically works the same as Alcohol....in the body...and the "Sugar" industry continues to ignore these connections....

See this research article that explains why this is so entitled "Fructose: It's “Alcohol Without the Buzz”

https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/4/2/226/4591631

This article explains well how over reliance on Rice (CARBS) over proteins almost crippled the Japanese Navy...

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/eating-way-too-much-rice-almost-doomed-japans-imperial-navy-59542

Read down in the article and you will see a clue that still holds today and why people feel better on Low CARB and Keto diets....

quoting

Japanese "Sailors were consuming too many carbohydrates. Earlier German research had demonstrated that a healthy diet required at least one unit of protein per 15 units of carbohydrates. By contrast, the average Japanese sailor ate one unit of protein per 28 units of carbs.

“The greater the difference in these proportions the more beriberi occurred, and the lesser the difference the less,"

I quoted it in this Posterboy article that explained how Low Thiamine levels can thin Villi Old research rediscovered.....which naturally leads to a Celiac diagnosis in time....

https://www.celiac.com/articles.html/how-low-thiamine-can-thin-villi-old-research-rediscovered-and-its-clinical-significance-in-celiac-disease-r5100/

This knowledge must be passed on from one generation to the next......or people will continue to suffer from Vitamin deficiencies unnecessarily....

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

Posterboy,

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Did you have have to ask your doctor to test you for each of these individually, or did they run a general test for you? I am just curious, as I've not had any of these checked except ferritin. 


Scott Adams

Celiac.com - Celiac Disease Board Moderator

Founder Celiac.com

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3 hours ago, Scott Adams said:

Did you have have to ask your doctor to test you for each of these individually, or did they run a general test for you? I am just curious, as I've not had any of these checked except ferritin. 

 

13 hours ago, DJFL77I said:

my b1 is normal..

Vitamin B1 (Thiamine), Blood:    176.1

Reference Range:  66.5 nmol/L   -   200.0 nmol/L

 

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DJFL and Scott,

We measure the wrong things sometimes....

We need to measure the Kinetic (activity) of the Thiamine to enter the Cell.....

Dr. Londsdale will explain it better than I can....Here is his article on it....

http://www.hormonesmatter.com/thiamine-deficiency-testing-understanding-labs/

The Erythrocyte Transketolase test is not performed normally when measuring Thiamine levels.....thus giving a "False Reading".....allowing doctor's to confirm their bias....you are not low in Thiamine....

I had developed Low Albumin a classic sign of Malnutrition often triggered by a Thiamine deficiency but the doctor's had NO clue....

I was losing protein and they didn't know why???

https://www.newhealthguide.org/Low-Protein-In-Blood.html

That is why I wrote my Posterboy blog post about this connection of a Low Thiamine deficiency  triggering Reefeding Syndrome in Celiac's......if and when you have Low Albumin levels you will be in "Celiac Crisis".

https://www.celiac.com/blogs/entry/2722-is-refeeding-syndrome-being-misdiagnosed-as-a-celiac-crisis-today-latest-research-indicates-a-celiac-crisis-could-be-refeeding-syndrome-being-misdiagnosed-instead/:~:text=Refeeding%20Syndrome%20happens%20among%20the%20severely%20malnourished%20and,leading%20to%20a%20Celiac%20Crisis%20aka%20Celiac%20diagnosis.

This typically happens in undiagnosed Celiac's......but I was an already diagnosed Celiac and they had no clue!

I have had to go back behind the doctor's......and learn nutrition 101 for myself because they don't study nutrition (Vitamins/Minerals) in medical school....

They don't believe in them nor study them.....and therefore do not recognize them when they happen.

If I have heard it once....I've heard it a 1,000 times....healthy people don't need Vitamins....

Well somebody who has Liver problems.....is not a healthy person...or in my case NAFLD, Elevated Liver Enzymes and Low Albumin, Chronically Fatigue etc... and Low Vitamin D etc....IS/Was not a healthy person!

You will have to search out someone who offers this special form of the test for a Thiamine deficiency or your levels will continue to show "Normal" for the reasons Dr. Lonsdale mentions.....despite having early signs of a Thiamine deficiency evidenced by Elevated Liver Enzymes...

There is thread somewhere on this forum....about this very topic....but I haven't had a chance to look for it....

If I find it I will post it here...It might be a few days before I can get back to this thread....

After some discussion he realized he had not taken the Erythrocyte Transketolase I think it abbr. EKTA

And  he like you tested "Low Normal" or barely deficient because he didn't get the right test....at least according to the leading researcher of the last 40 years on Thiamine deficiency.....not me Dr. Lonsdale...

The same problem exists for the Magnesium test ....we all show "Normal"....despite having "Stupid Organs" that dont' know what to do anymore.....because they are low in Vitamins/Minerals....

The Organ's are not stupid....they know they are not getting all the nutrients they need....but just try and convenience a doctor of that???

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

Posterboy,

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Scott and DJFL Et Al,

Here is that thread I mentioned early on the issues with getting a Clinical diagnosis of a Thiamine Deficiency....

Note: DJFL was involved in this thread.  So it for Scott and who ever might else read this thread....

It probably describes many of us who have ever tried to get a Celiac diagnosis....

It is the best thread I know of on a Thiamine deficiency on Celiac.com

Also here is a another online article on Thiamine that might help the next person in line...

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1533210110392941

This is the abstract only....to read the full citation download the PDF.

But I will try and quote from the PDF (if I can)....I couldn't find the full citation in an online article...at least not  on short notice...

Under the paragraph heading "Thiamine Deficiency States" and what I think it happening to you DJFL.

quoting

"Secondary thiamine deficiency is caused by increased requirement, as in hyperthyroidism, pregnancy, lactation, and fever. It is also associated with impaired absorption, as in prolonged diarrheas, and impaired utilization, as in severe liver disease."

Though elevated liver enzymes is an early sign of a Thiamine deficiency again because your not an Alcoholic......the doctor's can 't see through their Paradigm...

Let me say this in their defense....IT is not their fault!

I study Vitamin deficiencies ALOT....because I have had a ALOT of Vitamin deficiencies and until I read this on the "Early Signs of Clinical Thiamine Deficiency State" I didn't know either.

(Sorry for the formatting because it didn't import well....but I think I got the gist of the article...

Quoting from the PDF.

"Early Signs of Thiamine Deficiency in Thiamine Deficiency States
 

In the first or preliminary stage, inadequate thiamine availability because of faulty
diet, malabsorption, or abnormal metabolism leads to a greatly
reduced urinary thiamine loss. In the second, or biochemical
stage, the activity of transketolase is significantly reduced. In
the third, or physiologic stage, various general symptoms
develop,such as reduced appetite,insomnia,increased irritability,and malaise (Fatigue)

In the fourth,or clinical stage,a constellation of symptoms classically specific to

thiamine-deficiency disease (beriberi) develops, including intermittent claudication,polyneuritis, bradycardia, peripheral edema, cardiac enlargement, and ophthalmoplegia.

In the fifth, or anatomical stage, histopathological changes because of cellular structural damage are  seen, such as cardiac hypertrophy, degeneration of the granular layer of the cerebellum, and swelling of the  brain microglia.


It is noteworthy that the first 3 stages do not involve specific
signs of deficienc
y."

It is me again....Note: A Thiamine deficiency is only recognized as Beri Beri in the fourth stage of the disease or the Clinical stage aka Beri Beri...

This recent New York Times Magazine article explains it well...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/03/magazine/wernickes-encephalitis.html

It is subtitled "Her Legs Would Barely Follow Her Brain. Then She Saw Double." very appropriately because Thiamine deficiency often shows up  in the Extremities like your Arms and Legs...as a clinical symptom of Beri Beri....in the 3rd or fourth stage...the clinical diagnosible stage

But a Thiamine in the early first or second stage might only be elevated liver enzymes or GI problems....as noted in the link above....as study in Alcoholic's as an early indicator of Liver health and and early symptom of a Thiamine deficiency before Beri Beri develops....

The earlier the Thiamine deficiency is caught the better the outcomes!

Here is great study about it where a Thiamine deficiency presented with Gastrointestional problems....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4175961/

And only after a 12 day stay in the hospital was the patient released after One day of IV Thiamine administration.....

quoting from the article...

"The patient stated he felt “the best he had felt in weeks” and was discharged on day 13. Abnormal signs, symptoms, and lab values resolved over the following weeks. Blood drawn on day 12 was positive for low thiamine."

Again your Liver is not stupid.....ignorance kills! But it maims us first!

I must stop for now.....I have other things I need to accomplish tonight.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

Posterboy,

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DJFL et Al,

There were a couple other things I wanted to site (say) about liver health that I ran out of time to say the other day.....

I know this thread is about elevated liver enzymes....but often Cholesterol is the the same "Boat"....you have "Genetically High" Cholesterol etc....but High Cholesterol has also tied to Low Vitamin Status...

I had this problem (plus NAFLD) that go better 1) by going gluten free (NAFLD) but not the "Genetically High" Cholesterol....it got better with Supplementation!

Both Thiamine and Vitamin K (which you never hear discussed) helped my Chronically high Cholesterol....

It has been normal since taking Both Vitamin K and Thiamine as Benfotiamine....

Here is the article on Vitamin K....

https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2015/05/20/Should-vitamin-K2-also-be-recommended-for-statin-users#

Again your Liver is not Stupid....it just needs the proper nutrients to function properly.

Here is the research on how High Cholesterol can be treated with Benfotiamine...

Entitled "Metabolic Benefits of Six-month Thiamine Supplementation in Patients With and Without Diabetes Mellitus Type 2"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3921172/

quoting from the abstract....

"In all groups, there was a significant decrease in total cholesterol after three months (p = 0.03) as well as in HDL cholesterol after six months of thiamine supplementation (p = 0.009). Significant improvements were also observed in the mean serum levels of creatinine (p = 0.001), as well as thiamine and its derivatives in both serum and urinary levels across follow-up visits"

It is me again...."In all Groups" both healthy and non healthy diabetics....cholesterol improved with Thiamine supplementation.

And in my case the Creatine in my kidneys......a sign of an "unhealthy' kidney in Diabetics....got better.....and has better since....

My Kidney was not "Stupid" it was just deprived of the Nutrients it needed to function properly....

My doctor had no clue....it was from malnutrition....It was a Sub-Clinical sign of a Thiamine deficiency.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

Posterboy,

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DJFL,

Here is something else that can help your liver Choline and/or Lecithin....one is a precursor of the other...

Here is the article on Choline...

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/what-is-choline#deficiency

Here is the article on lecithin aka phoshatidlycholine

https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/phosphatidylcholine

I will quote from the Choline article....repeat after me....

"Deficiency is unhealthy but rare

Choline deficiency can cause harm, especially for your liver.

One small study in 57 adults found that 77% of men, 80% of postmenopausal women and 44% of premenopausal women experienced liver and/or muscle damage after going on a choline-deficient diet (11Trusted Source).

Another study noted that when postmenopausal women consumed a diet deficient in choline, 73% developed liver or muscle damage (12Trusted Source).

However, these symptoms disappeared once they began getting enough choline."

They admit it (Choline deficiency) can cause liver problems.....but they can't admit it is common enough to cause Liver complications in individual patients.....

Because they note......Deficiency is UNHealthy for your Liver....but it is rare so....it couldn't be that!

See also their notes in its involvement in Liver disease paragraph...

quoting again...

"Liver disease

Although choline deficiency results in liver disease, it’s unclear whether intakes below the recommended levels increase your risk of liver disease......

Another study in 664 people with non-alcoholic liver disease aka NAFLD found that lower intakes were associated with greater disease severity (52Trusted Source).

It is me again....the greater the deficiency the worse the disease....they admit the deficiency is UNHealthy for your Liver.....but they can't admit it is a Choline or Lecithin deficiency.

I see this a lot....

Lecithin is good for brain health also if you are having a lot of anxiety or a "Foggy Brain"....

Here is their paragraph on Choline/Lecthin and brain health....

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/what-is-choline#brain-function

It explains well why many Celiac's have brain fog....

Though Common it is rarely diagnosed in Celiac's....

IN fact most Micronutrients can be low in Celiac's without Overt (OBVIOUS) symptom's....and the medical community is now  just catching up to this FACT.

https://www.celiac.com/blogs/entry/2714-mayo-clinic-study-shows-micronutrient-deficiencies-are-still-common-in-contemporary-celiac-disease-despite-lack-of-overt-malabsorption-symptoms/

It is not their fault....you can't/don't recognize what you don't study!

I have tried to share to educate others.....but often it can at be least 10 to 15 years before the medical community acknowledges/incorporates new research into their models'....

Until then people suffer unnecessarily with Rarely recognized Vitamin Deficiencies....with things like "Stupid Livers"...that the doctor's are ignorant of can be caused by Vitamin deficiencies....

You can get more Choline in your diet by eating more eggs! Or liver if you can stomach it....which probably shouldn't surprise you by now that healthy livers are a good source of Choline......because healthy livers need Choline to stay healthy!

Or you can try a supplement....I have taken Lecithin aka Phosphatidylcholine or PC myself and it was good for my mind, nerves, anxiety and my liver!

I do not now....and have not needed too since taking Benfotiamine the Fat Soluble B1 found in the diabetic section.

I am thinking of getting some now for my nephew who suffers from Anxiety to see if helps him the way it did me! 

And I think it will help you too.....if you are willing to give it a try.....but most won't.....

Believing their Livers are Stupid instead....

As always, 2 Timothy 2:7  “Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things” this included.

I hope this is helpful but it is not medical advice.

Posterboy by the grace of God,

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