Gum Disease

[libbybraack]

Hi, just wondering if anyone else out there has had bad experience with gum disease from being Celiac, I am struggling really badly atm, I live Gluten free & have done for many years, I also suffer from AAT, inflammation in gums, pain, bleeding, I have great oral care, but nothing is helping .... any suggestions would be appreciated 

TIA

[Wheatwacked]

Hi welcome to the forum.

Your symptoms kind of sound like scurvey. Dr Linus Pauling was taking 9000 mg a day of vitamin C until he died in his 90's.  

 Vitamin C Fact Sheet for Health Professionals Initial symptoms can include fatigue (probably the result of impaired carnitine biosynthesis), malaise, and inflammation of the gums [4,11]. As vitamin C deficiency progresses, collagen synthesis becomes impaired and connective tissues become weakened, causing petechiae, ecchymoses, purpura, joint pain, poor wound healing, hyperkeratosis, and corkscrew hairs. 

[trents]

3 hours ago, libbybraack said:

Hi, just wondering if anyone else out there has had bad experience with gum disease from being Celiac, I am struggling really badly atm, I live Gluten free & have done for many years, I also suffer from AAT, inflammation in gums, pain, bleeding, I have great oral care, but nothing is helping .... any suggestions would be appreciated 

TIA

Yes, I'm thinking along the same lines as Wheatwacked. Libbybrack, are you taking any vitamins and supplements?

[Rogol72]

I also have good oral hygeine but used to suffer from bleeding and swollen gums. I doubled down on a super clean (no gluten-free foods or grains) gluten free diet and eating lots of carrots, brocolli and other green vegetables ... Vitamin C rich veggies! I also focused on supplementing with minerals and B Complex. On occasion but not consistently I would take Vitamin C. One day I just noticed that I don't bleed when I floss any more. Consistently eating Vitamin C rich vegetables and taking minerals worked for me.

[cristiana]

I get bleeding gums but find interdens brushes help, plus Corsodyl spray. 

I was talking to my dentist about this the other day and he gave me another good tip - before brushing your teeth, run your toothbrush under hot running water.  Apparently it helps soften the bristles, remove old toothpaste and food particles and should help.

For sensitive teeth he recommended something called Tooth Moose.

Is it possible this is a menopause related thing - I gather bleeding gums are a common issue then?  I don't know your age, but I'm in my fifties and keep seeing this being mentioned in various places.  That said, I don't think I eat nearly enough fruit or veg so I may be low on vitamin C.  I must address that next.

Edited March 20, 2023 by cristiana

[K Espinoza]

I notice my gums are bleeding when I brushed my teeth this morning.

It's bleeding gums consequence  from gluten free?

[trents]

12 minutes ago, K Espinoza said:

I notice my gums are bleeding when I brushed my teeth this morning.

It's bleeding gums consequence  from gluten free?

Not a consequence of eating gluten free but it could be a consequence of celiac disease which causes poor absorption of vitamins and minerals.

[plumbago]

I would be very surprised if this were scurvy. The NHS web site says:

Quote

Even people who do not eat very healthily all the time are not usually considered at risk of scurvy.

But one never knows, I suppose.

Gingivitis causes inflamed gums which can cause them to bleed.

[libbybraack]

Thank you all for sharing, I am very careful with what I eat, try very hard to get my vitamins etc, but yes being Celiac it is hard 

I was undiagnosed for many years, so lots of damage done, need iron infusions & do take supplements 

Gum disease is just another bonus I guess, was hoping someone out there had same, & could suggest something that helps, thought of losing my teeth doesn't exactly fill me with joy .....

[plumbago]

6 minutes ago, libbybraack said:

Thank you all for sharing, I am very careful with what I eat, try very hard to get my vitamins etc, but yes being Celiac it is hard 

I was undiagnosed for many years, so lots of damage done, need iron infusions & do take supplements 

Gum disease is just another bonus I guess, was hoping someone out there had same, & could suggest something that helps, thought of losing my teeth doesn't exactly fill me with joy .....

I'm so sorry, Libby. I hope you don't lose your teeth, and with some interventions, you should not.  I used to have bleeding gums. I'm not sure of they relation if any to celiac disease, but once I started flossing regularly, the bleeding stopped for the most part. A rough floss can draw blood, for sure. Now I use the waterpik, because Glide dental floss basically doesn't degrade and I'm "into" the environment as much as I'm into my health. https://www.celiac.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png I use a Sonicare electric toothbrush. I should go to the dentist, as it's been too long (as in years, eek) since I last went.

[libbybraack]

Thanks, there is a link to Celiac, the bleeding is not the worst, receding swollen gums, etc

[Wheatwacked]

I have found that the best way to clean my teeth is to rinse my mouth with plaque control mouthwash, then brush with a $14 Oral B or Sonic electric toothbrush. The rinse softens the plaque so it brushes away easy and kills the bacteria, then brush it away. Do you really want to use an abrasive toothpaste on a surface that they say cannot be renewed? Last dentist appointment was 2010 when an amalgom filling from 1963 had to be replaced.

And yet another reason to raise vitamin D blood level to 80 ng/ml.

Quote

 

The Relationship between Vitamin D and Periodontal Pathology Osteoporosis and periodontal diseases are common problems among the elderly population. Sufficient intake of vitamin D can decrease the risk of gingivitis and chronic periodontitis, as it has been shown to have immunomodulatory, anti-inflammatory, antiproliferative effects and initiates cell apoptosis. In addition, vitamin D is also important for bone metabolism, alveolar bone resorption and preventing tooth loss. It increases antibacterial defense of gingival epithelial cells and decrease gingival inflammation.

Human body synthesizes approximately 10,000 IU of vitamin D from tanning under natural sunlight until light redness of the skin. 

 

To convert ng/ml to nmol/L multiply the ng/ml by 2.5 for example 50 ng/ml is equivalent to 125 nmol/L.

[Rogol72]

I've managed to reverse receding gums, not 100% but by a noticeable amount so it can be done. My teeth and gums have never felt stronger or better. I can't specifically put my finger on any one thing that worked, but I loaded up and macro, trace and ultratrace minerals. A sufficient mineral supply in the body allows the vitamins to work properly.

[libbybraack]

Can I ask what you are taking

[Rogol72]

4 hours ago, libbybraack said:

Can I ask what you are taking

Sure. This is why I focused on minerals ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2z9YXo-gnE  . It made sense to me. It was a combination of diet and supplements. I wasn't consciously trying to fix my gum issues, they just recovered as a result of getting super focused on my health.

 

First, I fixed my Vitamin D deficiency, my numbers are consistently between 100 and 125 now. Then I tackled a subclinical Iron deficiency, I noticed my numbers were on the low end of normal so I wanted to get them in the middle of the normal range. The low dose iron supplement I take contains vitamin C.

I took and still do take every day ... a B Complex, Vitamin D, a trace mineral supplement, Magnesium and at the moment, I'm using L Glutamine for a month 5g daily to see how much that helps.

I also follow the AIP diet because nuts and seeds and legumes were causing me problems. I eat meat and poultry and fish on occasion but limit it due to the histamine content if it's not super fresh. Sweet potatoes and lots of vegetables (no nightshades) ... carrots, parsnips, broccoli and other greens. I also have 3 eggs every day as I can tolerate them. Some fruit and a big salad every evening, so 3 square meals a day ... no snacking in between. If I eat out or at a family members home, I'm meticulous about CC.

[Wheatwacked]

2 hours ago, Rogol72 said:

between 100 and 125

Would that be nmole/liter for vitamin D? I'm steady at 80 ng/ml.

I agree. the key to recovery is a) as Dr Amen says: love the food that loves you back and b) replenish those vitamins and minerals to the point you can store some up.

3 eggs a day supplies the minimum RDA of choline.

[Rogol72]

21 minutes ago, Wheatwacked said:

Would that be nmole/liter for vitamin D? I'm steady at 80 ng/ml.

I agree. the key to recovery is a) as Dr Amen says: love the food that loves you back and b) replenish those vitamins and minerals to the point you can store some up.

3 eggs a day supplies the minimum RDA of choline.

Yes ... 101 nmol/L from my last bloods in November. I absorb/metabolise Vitamin D supplements efficiently, a few weeks of 4000iu per day and I'll be in the 140+ range, the sweet spot for me is about 1000iu daily.

Dr. Amen's mantras are key. Dr. Robert Pastore, another advocate of restoring vitamins and minerals (and fellow Coeliac) also highlights the importance of choline.

[Wheatwacked]

I started 10,000 iu a day in 2015. By 2019 I was only at 47 ng/ml (117 nmole/L). 

Hit 86 in 2021 and is holding at 80 ng/ml (200 nmole/L) even if I skip for a couple of weeks. Last year I stopped taking D for 3 weeks prior to blood draw and it dropped to 72 but this year stayed at 80, telling me I am finally replete and storing some.  Winter blues are now a thing of the past. I used to react badly to gluten but lately not at all. Between time to heal and getting enough vitamins to support the healing, and lowering my omega 6 to 3 ratio, I think my Celiac is dormant, but I would be a fool to eat the stuff. It doesn't love me and never did.

[Rogol72]

9 hours ago, Wheatwacked said:

I started 10,000 iu a day in 2015. By 2019 I was only at 47 ng/ml (117 nmole/L). 

Hit 86 in 2021 and is holding at 80 ng/ml (200 nmole/L) even if I skip for a couple of weeks. Last year I stopped taking D for 3 weeks prior to blood draw and it dropped to 72 but this year stayed at 80, telling me I am finally replete and storing some.  Winter blues are now a thing of the past. I used to react badly to gluten but lately not at all. Between time to heal and getting enough vitamins to support the healing, and lowering my omega 6 to 3 ratio, I think my Celiac is dormant, but I would be a fool to eat the stuff. It doesn't love me and never did.

At one point my level was at 175nmol/L and my GP told me to back of the D3 supplements. Anything above 125 on this side of the pond is considered at increased risk of toxicity. Maybe I should be shooting for 125 all the time.

[Wheatwacked]

It seems to go back to a baby food manufacturing error in the early 50's where 1000 times the vitamin D was added to British baby foods causing an epidemic of hypercalcimia and many infant deaths. My guess is they used mg instead of mcg. The reaction was to limit D and the rest of the world just followed suit. You may have noticed that almost all research in vitamin D is limited to results of more than 29 ng/ml or less. The one that convince me were the tests on kidney transplant patients on doses of up to 1 1/4 million IU single dose with no adverse effects. The VITALE study in 2014 seems to have displaced that study. Welcome to Orwell's 1984

 

"The relation between the epidemic occurrence of idiopathic infantile hypercalcemia and increased doses of vitamin D (up to 4000 IU per day) in infant formula and fortified milk in Great Britain at that time implicated nutritional vitamin D intake in the pathogenesis of this disorder." https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa1103864

It is recommended that targeting a 25(OH)D level of 40–70 ng/mL for each individual would provide optimal health benefits and reduce health care costs. Current recommended doses of vitamin D supplementation fall short of what is needed to obtain ideal serum levels. A vitamin D supplementation program to prevent disease, much like the current vaccination program, could potentially have a dramatic impact on overall health worldwide. https://vitamindwiki.com/Vitamin+D+(40-70+ng)+in+Children’s+Health+–+review+Sept+2014

Vitamin D intoxication associated with hypercalcemia, hyperphosphatemia, and suppressed parathyroid hormone level is typically seen in patients who are receiving massive doses of vitamin D in the range of 50,000 to 1 million IU/d for several months to years. Ekwaru et al16 recently reported on more than 17,000 healthy adult volunteers participating in a preventative health program and taking varying doses of vitamin D up to 20,000 IU/d. These patients did not demonstrate any toxicity, and the blood level of 25(OH)D in those taking even 20,000 IU/d was less than 100 ng/mL https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(15)00244-X/pdf

 

• Surge of information on benefits of vitamin D

• A lifeguard study that found vitamin D levels in the 70 ng/mL range up to 100 ng/mL (nature’s level) were associated with no adverse effects;

• a single dose of 500,000 IU per year does not maintain blood levels at a high enough level
• Data in patients with breast cancer showing a reduction in the incidence of new cancer with postulated 0 point at 80 ng/mL;
• Colon cancer data showing a reduction in the incidence of new cancer (linear) with postulated 0 point at 75 ng/mL;
• More than 200 polymorphisms of the vitamin D receptor requiring higher D levels to attain same desired outcomes;
• When a patient misses dosing, an attained level of 80 ng/mL gives the patient an additional month of good levels off of vitamin D.