Omg...i Might Be On To Something

[Rachel--24]

Okay so let me get this straight....

The 365 Organic Rice milk I buy from Whole Foods (which I think is 'enriched' and has 'natural flavors' and stuff like that) could have msg in it?????

Mango...they only have to identify MSG in a product if they actually *add* it into the product. Soooo....what they do intstead is *process* it into another ingredient and its labeled as corn syrup, natural flavors, carageenan....whatever. They can even put on the label "No MSG" even though there's plenty....but they didn't *add* it in. It was already processed into one or more of the ingredients they used. And Yes, even at Whole Foods most of the processed stuff has MSG...its just not labeled as such. The rice milk you asked about contains MSG. Once its processed its always MSG. The only glutamate that is safe and natural is the stuff that is in fresh tomatoes or mushrooms or fish or any fresh food like that. That is glutamate in its natural state. Its NEVER in its natural state in any of the foods that are processed or packaged...its a totally different thing. From what I've read there is no such thing as deli meat or cheese that *doesnt* contain MSG. Its all processed meat. All sausages, hot dogs, lunchmeat, etc....its all got MSG in it.

Without the MSG the stuff probably would taste bad. It covers up what might otherwise taste bitter or bland. Thats its only purpose...to make up for the cheap ingredients and lack of flavor.

[Mango04]

Mango...they only have to identify MSG in a product if they actually *add* it into the product. Soooo....what they do intstead is *process* it into another ingredient and its labeled as corn syrup, natural flavors, carageenan....whatever. They can even put on the label "No MSG" even though there's plenty....but they didn't *add* it in. It was already processed into one or more of the ingredients they used. And Yes, even at Whole Foods most of the processed stuff has MSG...its just not labeled as such. The rice milk you asked about contains MSG. Once its processed its always MSG. The only glutamate that is safe and natural is the stuff that is in fresh tomatoes or mushrooms or fish or any fresh food like that. That is glutamate in its natural state. Its NEVER in its natural state in any of the foods that are processed or packaged...its a totally different thing. From what I've read there is no such thing as deli meat or cheese that *doesnt* contain MSG. Its all processed meat. All sausages, hot dogs, lunchmeat, etc....its all got MSG in it.

Wow thanks for the explantion Rachel. That's really helpful to know. I'd like to think I could at least kind of trust the companies that process "organic" food. I guess once it's processed you just never really know what you're eating.

[Rachel--24]

After I started the Ultra Clear I got about 5 times sicker than I was before. The doc told me that was impossible, there was no way it could be the supplement. I stopped working with him after about a month of getting progressively sicker. My entire head was swollen like a balloon and I felt absolutely terrible when I was taking that stuff and probiotics and I never did figure out why. Thank you so much for making the connection.

Calicat, Im so glad I mentioned the whole msg thing now cuz at first I wasnt sure if I wanted to post it. Basically cuz each week it seems like something new with me.

I just think each discovery is leading me more to the real problem and maybe this time I got it right.

I don't know but sheeesh its bound to happen...by process of elimination alone.

I'm glad you posted....Its nice that we dont have to be alone in this.

I can't believe how similar we all are in this regard! I'm even questioning the celiac thing too, although my anti gliadin tests were extrememly high. No one else in my family has been diagnosed with celiac though, and here's the other thing...my head never swelled up when I ate wheat, and I didn't get this rash around my mouth either but it happens whenever i have gluten-free 'natural' foods and supplements.

I wouldnt doubt the diagnosis...especially with high antibodies. Did you have a bloodtest? The antibodies are present for a reason...your body was reacting to gluten. I know Celiac can be present even w/out symptoms. My doctor told me that the damage can be occurring for years before things start to fall apart. Usually after something else puts even more stress on the immune system...like an infection or virus or stress or whatever. Which antibodies were high for you?

[Rachel--24]

For anyone interested...this is the most complete list I was able to find of all the names MSG is "hidden" under. Its shocking.

annatto, artificial flavorings, Auxi-gro (yep- they'respraying it in the soil), B vitamins from yeast, barley malt (beer) scary thought mixing msg with alcohol, beef flavoring, bouillon, broth - all types, buttermilk powder, carrageenan, casein, cheese culture, chicken flavoring, citric acid (where you would not normally find it naturally), clam broth concentrate, corn syrup (soda - need we say more), cornstarch, cream of tarter, cream powder, cultured whey, disodium guanylate, disodium inosinate, all encapsulated drugs, vitamins, minerals, enzyme modified butter, enzyme modified parmesian cheese, enzymes, flavorings (too many to number), gelatin, guar gum, malt extract, malt flavoring, maltodextrin (solutions for frozen turkeys and chickens), modified corn starch, modified food starch, molasses, monoammonian glutamate, mushroom powder, natural flavorings, nonfat dry milk, paprika oleoresin - not paprika itself, pasteurized part skim milk, pork flavoring, protein, phosphoric acid, seasonings and season mixes, selenium from yeast, smoke flavoring, sodium citrate, soy extract, soy protein, soy protein concentrate, soy protein isolate, soy sauce, soy starch, spices (any time you see the word), stock - all types, tapioca, textured protein, torula yeast, vegetable gum

waxes on fruit and vegetables, whey protein, whey protein concentrate, whey protein isolate.

Besides the above, all fruits that have been waxed for appeal have MSG in the wax. Many farmers are spraying Auxi-Gro on their crops now, which has MSG in it so that pertains to vegetables. Most all frozen meats and poultry now come with a 12% maltodextrin solution shot into it for better flavor due to freezing. That maltodextrin is the ingredient that they used to get the MSG into that Thanksgiving turkey. And of course, this is what makes the Colonel taste so good. Can't stop eating it can you? Candy, cookies and even ice cream have MSG in them now so it's not just salted food items but even sweet foods. If you ever buy a citric acid product like juice and it has 'citric acid' listed in the ingredients - that's because monosodium glutamate is added to citric acid in order to hide it.

Worse yet are sodas and beer. MSG is being found in barley for beer and corn syrup for sodas. We'll all agree that everyone abuses those. Remember, the FDA is allowing this.

[Green12]

For anyone interested...this is the most complete list I was able to find of all the names MSG is "hidden" under. Its shocking.

This is great Rachel, thanks for this expanded list!

Calicat- I know several people that took those Ultra Clear products and they never could tolerate them, let alone heal in any away when taking them. I've taken them all multiple times at one point or another, but the Ultra Sustain (I believe that one is for leaky gut specifically) made me the sickest- it's got FOS in it and set me off like a bomb. I found a lot of health care professionals say, well you have to get worse before you can better, which I guess is true but there has to come a time I think when things start turning around.

The Alzheimer's connection really upsets me too. I just lost my grandmother to it a few months ago, and so many people are suffering because their relatives have it. I know it is really naive, but I just don't understand how the big manufacturers that use all of this glutamic acid can be so heartless. I mean, they have families too, right?

Also, I'm real sorry for your loss. It is a nasty, nasty, cruel, unfair, disease.

[dlp252]

Thanks for posting that list. I've been rationalizing stuff I've been eating and I think I really just have to get myself over it and do this. My current thinking is that I have some definite problem with processed foods, so cutting them out would take care of anything like this. My biggest problem is convenience. I don't like to cook and I live alone so buying fresh usually results in a lot of waste for me...somehow I have to get over all that and maybe cook and freeze everything myself in a day or two. The other thing I'm thinking is that I may have some kind of blood sugar issue which would probably also be helped by cutting out processed foods, lol. I don't eat tons of the processed "junk" or replacement foods, but I do eat a lot of convenience type things like frozen veggies and fruits and Lara Bars etc, and I do buy big bags of frozen chicken parts. The chicken I can easily remedy, but gosh I'm not sure how I'm going to handle the veggies, lol.

[Mango04]

Thanks for posting that list. I've been rationalizing stuff I've been eating and I think I really just have to get myself over it and do this. My current thinking is that I have some definite problem with processed foods, so cutting them out would take care of anything like this. My biggest problem is convenience. I don't like to cook and I live alone so buying fresh usually results in a lot of waste for me...somehow I have to get over all that and maybe cook and freeze everything myself in a day or two. The other thing I'm thinking is that I may have some kind of blood sugar issue which would probably also be helped by cutting out processed foods, lol. I don't eat tons of the processed "junk" or replacement foods, but I do eat a lot of convenience type things like frozen veggies and fruits and Lara Bars etc, and I do buy big bags of frozen chicken parts. The chicken I can easily remedy, but gosh I'm not sure how I'm going to handle the veggies, lol.

I live alone too and it took me a long time to figure out how to grocery shop without eventually just throwing away lots of wasted produce. It works for me now though. I go to the store more than once a week, and just buy really small amounts of things. I'll buy maybe two banannas (not quite ripened), two apples, one zucchini, one avocado (not yet ripened). The gist is I only buy one or two of each thing, I get fruits that aren't ripe yet and I also have a juicer, so that helps too. I guess you can also chop your fresh stuff up and freeze it yourself. That might be another solution.

[Green12]

Julie...I was wondering about fish too...I usually eat it but tonight I skipped it when I went grocery shopping. I'm not too sure about it....let me know if you find out.

I am still trying to find some info about fish. I did come across something about salmon having an orange colored glaze with MSG in order to make it look fresher, but I don't know if that is just farm raised or if it includes wild salmon as well.

dlp, I know what you mean about cooking everything. It is tiring and draining for sure and takes a lot of planning ahead. This is what I have been doing for the last several years and I found there are some steps you can follow to make it easier. One day on the weekend, or whenever is not your busiest time during the week, I make it a cooking day. I make up all of my meat meals and then freeze them in little freezer bags in individual portions, and then put all of those little bags in one big bag and write on it what it is. I mostly do ground turkey, beef, and chicken meals, and do 2 or 3 varieties of each- that way there is plenty to rotate and makes for less boredom. If you can tolerate eggs, you can hard boil several eggs and have them in the fridge handy to eat all week. I find getting the protein portion of the meal is half the battle, then I just fill in with fresh fruit and vegetables. For the vegetables I eat a lot of salad so I clean a head of lettuce each week, separate the leaves and dry them really good and then throw them in a big ziploc bag and into the fridge ready to make salads.

[dlp252]

I live alone too and it took me a long time to figure out how to grocery shop without eventually just throwing away lots of wasted produce. It works for me now though. I go to the store more than once a week, and just buy really small amounts of things. I'll buy maybe two banannas (not quite ripened), two apples, one zucchini, one avocado (not yet ripened). The gist is I only buy one or two of each thing, I get fruits that aren't ripe yet and I also have a juicer, so that helps too. I guess you can also chop your fresh stuff up and freeze it yourself. That might be another solution.

Thanks for the reply. Yep, I think the cutting and freezing is the way to go. I generally don't have a problem with fresh fruits as much as the veggies, so cutting and freezing those when I get home from the store would probably work well. I do that with all my meats...I buy in bulk and just divide and freeze them in individual portions, so I don't know why it's so hard with the veggies, lol. The other thing that works against me is that I am basically lazy. I work hard and work out, but once those two things are over with I am happy to be a slug on the couch, lol. Sunday afternoons would be a good time to do the cutting freezing thing. I'm going to try this weekend...I go shopping tomorrow morning, so I'll see what I can come up with.

[christine 25]

I think I have Phenol Sensitivity

heres a List of high phenol foods and I react to them all!

"Here is a short list of high phenol foods from Karen Seroussi's book, which you would want to eliminate or at least reduce to prevent overload, is food dyes, tomatoes, apples, peanuts, bananas, oranges, cocoa, red grapes, colored fruits, and milk.

Here is the Feingold list of highly phenolic/high salicylate foods: Avoid anything -- food, toiletries, cleaning supplies, art supplies -- that has any of the following ingredients: Synthetic/artificial colors and flavors [for example, FD&C colors, vanillin], BHA, BHT, TBHQ, [all the preceding are made from or related to petroleum], Natural Flavoring (may contain salicylate), Natural Coloring (may contain salicylate), Aspirin and products containing aspirin or salicylic acid, Salicylates, Almonds, Apples, Apricots, Berries (all), Cherries, Chili powder, Cider & cider vinegar (apples), Cloves, Coffee, Cucumbers & pickles, Currants, Grapes & raisins, Nectarines, Oranges, Paprika, Peaches, Peppers (bell & chili), Plums, Prunes, Tangerines, Tea, Tomatoes, Wine & wine vinegar (grapes), Oil of wintergreen (methyl salicylate). Other items to consider are perfumes and fragrances, nitrites and nitrates, monosodium glutamate [MSG], Hydrolized Vegetable Protein [may contain MSG], sulfites/sulfiting agents, benzoates, and corn syrup [made from hydrogen sulfide + corn starch and many other added chemicals]."

I was reading about Phenols and they are in most foods, including MSG.

I wonder if anyone has done any research on phenols yet or thinks it could be a probable cause for lingering symptoms.

I get reactions to spices and these foods, they all emcompass phenols.

Christina

[Rachel--24]

I am still trying to find some info about fish. I did come across something about salmon having an orange colored glaze with MSG in order to make it look fresher, but I don't know if that is just farm raised or if it includes wild salmon as well.

I stopped buying farmed fish awhile back. I only eat wild now. I had some really bad experiences with salmon...I figured it was the color they add into it. I've eaten wild salmon since then w/out the symptoms.

I think I have Phenol Sensitivity

heres a List of high phenol foods and I react to them all!

"Here is a short list of high phenol foods from Karen Seroussi's book, which you would want to eliminate or at least reduce to prevent overload, is food dyes, tomatoes, apples, peanuts, bananas, oranges, cocoa, red grapes, colored fruits, and milk.

Here is the Feingold list of highly phenolic/high salicylate foods: Avoid anything -- food, toiletries, cleaning supplies, art supplies -- that has any of the following ingredients: Synthetic/artificial colors and flavors [for example, FD&C colors, vanillin], BHA, BHT, TBHQ, [all the preceding are made from or related to petroleum], Natural Flavoring (may contain salicylate), Natural Coloring (may contain salicylate), Aspirin and products containing aspirin or salicylic acid, Salicylates, Almonds, Apples, Apricots, Berries (all), Cherries, Chili powder, Cider & cider vinegar (apples), Cloves, Coffee, Cucumbers & pickles, Currants, Grapes & raisins, Nectarines, Oranges, Paprika, Peaches, Peppers (bell & chili), Plums, Prunes, Tangerines, Tea, Tomatoes, Wine & wine vinegar (grapes), Oil of wintergreen (methyl salicylate). Other items to consider are perfumes and fragrances, nitrites and nitrates, monosodium glutamate [MSG], Hydrolized Vegetable Protein [may contain MSG], sulfites/sulfiting agents, benzoates, and corn syrup [made from hydrogen sulfide + corn starch and many other added chemicals]."

I was reading about Phenols and they are in most foods, including MSG.

I wonder if anyone has done any research on phenols yet or thinks it could be a probable cause for lingering symptoms.

I get reactions to spices and these foods, they all emcompass phenols.

Christina

Christina,

I tried to eliminate phenols with a salicylate and amine free diet....even changed my make-up and all that. I didnt get better and I still reacted to low phenol foods like cabbage and celery. I think whatever was in my supplements and the msg capsules were messing me up.

The digestive enzymes I took were suppossed to help with phenols but I dont think they would stop an MSG reaction. If you think you are reacting to phenols there is a digestive enzyme called NoPhenol....I read some good stuff about it but never tried it myself.

[Green12]

I think I have Phenol Sensitivity

heres a List of high phenol foods and I react to them all!

"Here is a short list of high phenol foods from Karen Seroussi's book, which you would want to eliminate or at least reduce to prevent overload, is food dyes, tomatoes, apples, peanuts, bananas, oranges, cocoa, red grapes, colored fruits, and milk.

Here is the Feingold list of highly phenolic/high salicylate foods: Avoid anything -- food, toiletries, cleaning supplies, art supplies -- that has any of the following ingredients: Synthetic/artificial colors and flavors [for example, FD&C colors, vanillin], BHA, BHT, TBHQ, [all the preceding are made from or related to petroleum], Natural Flavoring (may contain salicylate), Natural Coloring (may contain salicylate), Aspirin and products containing aspirin or salicylic acid, Salicylates, Almonds, Apples, Apricots, Berries (all), Cherries, Chili powder, Cider & cider vinegar (apples), Cloves, Coffee, Cucumbers & pickles, Currants, Grapes & raisins, Nectarines, Oranges, Paprika, Peaches, Peppers (bell & chili), Plums, Prunes, Tangerines, Tea, Tomatoes, Wine & wine vinegar (grapes), Oil of wintergreen (methyl salicylate). Other items to consider are perfumes and fragrances, nitrites and nitrates, monosodium glutamate [MSG], Hydrolized Vegetable Protein [may contain MSG], sulfites/sulfiting agents, benzoates, and corn syrup [made from hydrogen sulfide + corn starch and many other added chemicals]."

I was reading about Phenols and they are in most foods, including MSG.

I wonder if anyone has done any research on phenols yet or thinks it could be a probable cause for lingering symptoms.

I get reactions to spices and these foods, they all emcompass phenols.

Christina

What does one eat when avoiding phenols/salicylates?

I do know that NAET treatments are suppose to help with this, ironically they talk about NAET treatments on one of the MSG information websites too.

[Rachel--24]

What does one eat when avoiding phenols/salicylates?

Julie,

I did this diet a little over a month ago. I was eating only cabbage, leeks, chicken and pears. These have no phenols but I got WORSE. My face was getting puffier and puffier....I didnt know what to think but figured it was from the chicken or something. I was still on my supplements at the time too so that diet just made things worse for me. Recently I ate some cabbage and got some head swelling right away....same thing with celery....but not chicken. Now that I've been reading about the Auxigro and how many crops its been approved for here in CA...I'm wondering if I'm reacting to that? I already know I reacted to one brand of potatos and one brand of packaged carrots. I live in the Central Valley where there is still alot of farming around me. I saw that the cabbage crops were approved for spraying but didnt see anything about celery...I'll have to keep looking.

Also Julie,

Just because you havent recovered in 10 years doesnt mean it cant or wont happen. Look at some of the people on this board who've had undiagnosed Celiac for decades and then get better from the diet. I really believe our bodies are extremely good at healing if we allow it to happen. The trick is finding out whats causing the stress in the first place. Yeah....thats the hard part.

I do think you can heal though.

[Green12]

Julie,

I did this diet a little over a month ago. I was eating only cabbage, leeks, chicken and pears. These have no phenols but I got WORSE. My face was getting puffier and puffier....I didnt know what to think but figured it was from the chicken or something. I was still on my supplements at the time too so that diet just made things worse for me. Recently I ate some cabbage and got some head swelling right away....same thing with celery....but not chicken. Now that I've been reading about the Auxigro and how many crops its been approved for here in CA...I'm wondering if I'm reacting to that? I already know I reacted to one brand of potatos and one brand of packaged carrots. I live in the Central Valley where there is still alot of farming around me. I saw that the cabbage crops were approved for spraying but didnt see anything about celery...I'll have to keep looking.

Also Julie,

Just because you havent recovered in 10 years doesnt mean it cant or wont happen. Look at some of the people on this board who've had undiagnosed Celiac for decades and then get better from the diet. I really believe our bodies are extremely good at healing if we allow it to happen. The trick is finding out whats causing the stress in the first place. Yeah....thats the hard part.

I do think you can heal though.

OMG, I don't think I could last on a low phenol/salicylate diet. Cabbage alone would rip my intestinal tract apart! Geesh.

Rachel, I just thought of something. Are you drinking filtered water? If the area you live in is surrounded by farming and they are using Auxigro and other chemicals I wonder if you are getting exposed environmentally as well, i.e. in the water supply, not just through the produce you have been eating. Just a thought.

Thanks for the encouragement. I deep down do have a lot of hope. I just keep getting up everyday trying to figure it all out and work it differently to find a solution, that has to be a good sign!! With all of the recent developments about corn derivatives and MSG, and the common symptomology of severe edema, rashes, etc, I am really beginning to believe that it is some type of continual toxicity that our bodies can't handle, and like you said, if we can all figure out how to clear it out then good health has to be in the cards for all of us!

[Rachel--24]

OMG, I don't think I could last on a low phenol/salicylate diet. Cabbage alone would rip my intestinal tract apart! Geesh.

Ooops, didnt mean to freak you out! There are actually a few other low phenol foods...most of which I cant tolerate. Like soy and dairy. I was going to the extreme so I could really see if the phenols were my problem or not.

Rachel, I just thought of something. Are you drinking filtered water? If the area you live in is surrounded by farming and they are using Auxigro and other chemicals I wonder if you are getting exposed environmentally as well, i.e. in the water supply, not just through the produce you have been eating. Just a thought.

I havent drank tap water in over 3 years. Before I got sick I didnt drink much water (soda and more soda). I only drink bottled water now but I've thought about all this before. I had wondered if the area I live at somehow got me sick but I feel the same no matter where I'm at. During the week I'm in the Bay Area and I go home on the weekends and nothing changes as far as the symptoms.

[Mango04]

So is this auxigrow only used on conventional crops? It can't be used on organic stuff right? I read that organic baby carrots are sometimes soaked in a chemical bath, but I'm talking about whole organic unpackaged fruits and veggies. Geez if those aren't free of unneccessary added chemicals what does one do...grow a garden?

[Green12]

So is this auxigrow only used on conventional crops? It can't be used on organic stuff right? I read that organic baby carrots are sometimes soaked in a chemical bath, but I'm talking about whole organic unpackaged fruits and veggies. Geez if those aren't free of unneccessary added chemicals what does one do...grow a garden?

I'm not sure Mango- I am still investigating that. I just came from the MSG discussion boards and found out several people react to the wild salmon at Whole Foods, they suspect it has the orange glaze on it too and they wrote to corporate and the reply was it couldn't possibly be contaminated. So if contamination is happening with the fish, meats, supplements at the health food stores I can't imagine why it couldn't be happening to produce as well. I don't know who to trust or what you do?!?!? I guess just do your best and wash and peel everything really good.

Rachel, you didn't freak me out! I couldn't tolerate soy or dairy either so if I did a low phenol/salicylate diet it would be minimal for me as well. Cabbage upsets my stomach really badly, so does celery, I would be down to chicken and pears.

I have been really stressing over not taking any supplements because I worry I need the added support and then I found this on the MSG discussion boards if anyone else is interested:

Whole foods are best eaten to get vitamins. It forces one to eat as varied a diet as possible. This may turn out to be extremely important. Occasionally have red meat to get iron and B vitamins. Watermelon as well as spinach, asparagus, salmon, potatoes and beef is a great way to get B6. Spinach, romaine lettuce, asparagus, cabbage, zucchini are great sources of folacin. Niacin is found in tuna, beef, chicken, oysters, peaches, turkey, and sardines. Riboflavin is found in sirloin steak, ricotta cheese, oysters, spinach, broccoli, romaine lettuce. Thiamin is found in pork, romaine lettuce, sunflower seeds, blackeyed peas, watermelon, and oysters. Sardines with bones provide calcium as does milk. Vitamin E comes from vegetable oils. Potatoes, green peppers, strawberries, asparagus, papayas, and broccoli are a great way to get C and mangoes, sweet potatoes, spinach, butternut squash, canteloupe, apricots and carrots are a great way to get A. I firmly believe that nature packages things with the other substances that help you best use them. The science of nutrition is barely a century old. The food scientists tell you they have it all figured out already and can put it in a pill, and they may actually beleive that. But if that were so, we would not see new findings every day on bioflavenoids, or Omega 3 versus Omega 6. Most people had never heard of trans fatty acids even 10 years ago. I don't know what they will discover 10 years from now, but I don't want to be deficient in whatever it is. Call it insurance If you are going to eat, make it varied, and make it count as much as possible. If you are making a salad for instance, use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg. If you are going to eat a can of sardines, get them with the bones. B vitamins are best obtained by eating, meats, leafy greens, vegetables, and fruit. When you think B vitamins, don't think pills - think summer barbecue: steak or grilled salmon, potato, asparagus, romaine salad and watermelon for dessert.

[Rachel--24]

So is this auxigrow only used on conventional crops? It can't be used on organic stuff right? I read that organic baby carrots are sometimes soaked in a chemical bath, but I'm talking about whole organic unpackaged fruits and veggies. Geez if those aren't free of unneccessary added chemicals what does one do...grow a garden?

I'm pretty sure its in the organic stuff too but I'm not 100% positive. Since they don't acknowledge MSG as harmful they can put it in whatever they want. Its considered GRAS (generally recognized as safe). Because of that label there is no limit on how much gets added into our foods. Yeah....I think its getting to that point of having to grow your own if you dont want harmful substances with your salad.

Heres a good link I found about aspartame and MSG...its not too "technical". I dont like the technical stuff when I have a headache.

Open Original Shared Link

[Calicat]

I wouldnt doubt the diagnosis...especially with high antibodies. Did you have a bloodtest? Which antibodies were high for you?

Rachel,

I did have bloodwork done and two or three different sets of anti-gliadin antibodies etc were so high that the docs said a biopsy was unnecessary. I'll check to see which ones specifically were high. I'm definitely not planning to try gluten again any time soon though, even if I am doubting the celiac dx. I'm at the point where I'm planning to just stick to things that I know from experience are okay. I just can't even think beyond that right now because I never want to be this sick again.

I found a lot of health care professionals say, well you have to get worse before you can better, which I guess is true but there has to come a time I think when things start turning around.

Julie,

I've heard that more times than I can count. i'm probably spelling it wrong, but the medical term is a herxsheimer reaction, and so far every single time it's been said I've ended up getting much sicker from the treatment with no improvement even after sticking with it for a while. I almost died from the treatment for Lyme (which I don't think I even ever had) b/c I was told it would get worse before it got better, and I firmly believe that if I hadn't ignored my md and stopped all the meds, I wouldn't be here today.

When it comes right down to it, I think our bodies know what's best for us, and if we can just shut out all of the outside noise--especially from the "authorities" who are so ready to overmedicate and dismiss us-- we will find the answer. With all of us having such similarity in our symptoms, and working together to fit all of the pieces of this thing together, I think we're on our way.

Btw, thanks for that great list of where to find vitamins in foods! I've been really worried that I'm missing some important nutrients, but now I know how to get them.

I do know that NAET treatments are suppose to help with this, ironically they talk about NAET treatments on one of the MSG information websites too.

Do you know what it says about NAET on the MSG site? I was treated with that for multiple food allergies and chemical sensitivities back in 2000 and it didn't work for me. I spent 2-3 days a week at the practitioner's office and thousands of dollars with no improvement. That's just me though, I know everyone is different.

I was eating only cabbage, leeks, chicken and pears. These have no phenols but I got WORSE. My face was getting puffier and puffier....I didnt know what to think but figured it was from the chicken or something.

Rachel,

I can't tolerate those foods either (except for pears). Every time I try chicken (even organic, range-free) my head swells up and I get a rash and feel terrible. Now I'm wondering if it's because of some sort of msg derivative.

Do any of you happen to have a link for MSG sites or message boards? I've ordered the MSG Myth book, but until it comes I'd like to do some more research...thanks

[Rachel--24]

I have been really stressing over not taking any supplements because I worry I need the added support and then I found this on the MSG discussion boards if anyone else is interested:

I dont think I need supplements. I just got it into my head when I started reading about Candida that I needed to take all this stuff but the only thing that really helps me is eating right and avoiding the stuff that causes symptoms. When I do this my skin looks healthy, my hair looks healthy and my mind is clear. I never took vitamins or pills my whole life and I had some kind of "instinct" to stay away from any type of pills....so I never took anything. I was *always* scared of pills....like they would hurt me. The few occassions that I had to take a pill it was a big drama....I would choke and gag and the stuff would start disinegrating in my mouth. I'd have to spit it out and try again. I'd even cry and this wasnt that many years ago. I'm telling you...it was drama.

I think my body just knew to stay away from this stuff cuz it would cause me more harm than good and in the end it did. The first time my face swelled up really bad was 4 days after they put me on a thyroid med that had dyes in it and who knows what else. Now I'm a pro at swallowing pills but I wish I could go back cuz I'd refuse everything.

I've heard that more times than I can count. i'm probably spelling it wrong, but the medical term is a herxsheimer reaction, and so far every single time it's been said I've ended up getting much sicker from the treatment with no improvement even after sticking with it for a while.

Yeah the Herx reaction or "die-off" thing shouldn't last for months and months in my opinion. When I was doing the Candida thing everyone talked about die-off and everytime I took a supplement and got worse...I just blamed it on that. After a few months my mind was telling me that theres something more going on...the die-off explanation wasnt cutting it for me anymore. I go back to those message boards sometimes and the same people are there and they're still struggling with "die-off". It just doesnt make sense to me. I dont think you should have to suffer everyday to get better.

[Rachel--24]

Calicat here's some links.

Message Boards:

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

[aikiducky]

I had die off symptoms for maybe a week, tops, last week. Nothing since, just feeling better and better all the time. Just to say, my experience seems to confirm what you're saying.

Pauliina

no msg problems, just seeing how you all are doing

[Green12]

Julie,

I've heard that more times than I can count. i'm probably spelling it wrong, but the medical term is a herxsheimer reaction, and so far every single time it's been said I've ended up getting much sicker from the treatment with no improvement even after sticking with it for a while. I almost died from the treatment for Lyme (which I don't think I even ever had) b/c I was told it would get worse before it got better, and I firmly believe that if I hadn't ignored my md and stopped all the meds, I wouldn't be here today.

When it comes right down to it, I think our bodies know what's best for us, and if we can just shut out all of the outside noise--especially from the "authorities" who are so ready to overmedicate and dismiss us-- we will find the answer. With all of us having such similarity in our symptoms, and working together to fit all of the pieces of this thing together, I think we're on our way.

Btw, thanks for that great list of where to find vitamins in foods! I've been really worried that I'm missing some important nutrients, but now I know how to get them.

Do you know what it says about NAET on the MSG site? I was treated with that for multiple food allergies and chemical sensitivities back in 2000 and it didn't work for me. I spent 2-3 days a week at the practitioner's office and thousands of dollars with no improvement. That's just me though, I know everyone is different.

Calicat,

I agree that our bodies know best. I'm trying to fine tune the delicate art of listening to my own body and to trust my intuition when it comes to my own health. I do this most of the time, I have refused several treatments because it just didn't seem right and I think I was labeled a 'difficult' patient because of it. It's hard when we go to healthcare professionals or doctors and they are telling us what we have to do and what to take, no questions asked. That's why I am feeling a little guilty and struggling with not taking any supplements, all of this information has been pounded into my head that I have to take all of this stuff. It's difficult to break free from that and clear everybody elses agendas out of my mind. I was reassured to read over several entries on the discussion board by people not taking any supplements and having perfect health. Some however are taking supplements, I think it is talked about in the book as to brands and ingredients to look for. I am looking forward to getting the book too for more information.

Regarding NAET, I can't remember where I came across that. It wasn't on the discussion board, at least what I have looked through so far. It was on one of the main pages, at msgtruth or msgmyth. They touted this method of treatment as being very helpful. I myself had 3 years of NAET treatments and it didn't help me either.

[Rachel--24]

I had die off symptoms for maybe a week, tops, last week. Nothing since, just feeling better and better all the time. Just to say, my experience seems to confirm what you're saying.

Pauliina

no msg problems, just seeing how you all are doing

Seeee....thats what I'm saying. It shouldnt go on years and years....that just doesnt make sense. Are you doing Candida diet?

Thanks for stopping by.

Regarding NAET, I can't remember where I came across that. It wasn't on the discussion board, at least what I have looked through so far. It was on one of the main pages, at msgtruth or msgmyth. They touted this method of treatment as being very helpful. I myself had 3 years of NAET treatments and it didn't help me either.

There are several threads about NAET on this board. I think from what I've read its about 50/50. Some people say it helped them...some people say its bogus and a waste of money. Personally, I dont see myself signing up for NAET treatments. Ya never know though....I never thought I'd be brushing my teeth everyday with baking soda either.

[Rachel--24]

Heres another link for you Calicat

Open Original Shared Link