Varicose Veins

[meg44]

Has anyone here done research into Celiac and copper deficiency or copper excess? My 14 year old daughter is Celiac. She hasn't had gluten in seven years. At age seven she had a seizure (a one time affair) which I believe was related to Celiac too. But, since being totally off of Gluten that has never been an issue again. Here's the problem....she is developing serious varicose-like veins in her legs.

This is what I know (and some of it is conflicting):

Copper in excess can cause seizures BUT copper in deficiency can cause seizures.

Copper in absorbed in the stomach and small intestine. People who have incurred Celiac damage may have impaired their ability to absorb copper.

Copper is necessary for the elasticity of vein walls and for this reason, it is often prescribed for people with varicose veins.

I have had many hair analysis done on my daughter and they all come back VERY high copper, low zinc (which is a copper antagonist). All the nutritional-type doctors who did these hair analysis (over the years) put her on extra zinc to bring down the copper.

BUT, it appears that there is just as good a case that she is actually low copper (at least metabolized copper) that in essence copper is not being utilized by her body so it is storing in her hair and giving a false reading. The question is, if she is actually short copper, she needs it to help with her weak vein walls....but how do I know for sure and do I risk giving her copper with those kinds of hair analysis readings. And, if I did supplement copper, would she even be able to metabolize it?

To make matters worse, she is a nationally ranked skater, so she puts a lot of pressure on her legs. She lives for skating and it is her dream to continue skating; but we have got to solve this problem if she is to realize this dream.

Does any one here know of information related to this topic? I would be eternally grateful for you input.

[penguin]

I used to skate also, and other athletic things when I was little. I started getting horrible vericose veins when I was 16 (the huge, ugly, blue, bumpy ones) and I attributed it to being overweight. I didn't know vitamins or minerals had anything to do with them. If it is a low mineral thing, that would explain why they keep getting worse. Sorry I'm not more help, but I wanted to let you know she's not the only one.

[ravenwoodglass]

Has anyone here done research into Celiac and copper deficiency or copper excess? My 14 year old daughter is Celiac. She hasn't had gluten in seven years. At age seven she had a seizure (a one time affair) which I believe was related to Celiac too. But, since being totally off of Gluten that has never been an issue again. Here's the problem....she is developing serious varicose-like veins in her legs.

This is what I know (and some of it is conflicting):

Copper in excess can cause seizures BUT copper in deficiency can cause seizures.

Copper in absorbed in the stomach and small intestine. People who have incurred Celiac damage may have impaired their ability to absorb copper.

Copper is necessary for the elasticity of vein walls and for this reason, it is often prescribed for people with varicose veins.

I have had many hair analysis done on my daughter and they all come back VERY high copper, low zinc (which is a copper antagonist). All the nutritional-type doctors who did these hair analysis (over the years) put her on extra zinc to bring down the copper.

BUT, it appears that there is just as good a case that she is actually low copper (at least metabolized copper) that in essence copper is not being utilized by her body so it is storing in her hair and giving a false reading. The question is, if she is actually short copper, she needs it to help with her weak vein walls....but how do I know for sure and do I risk giving her copper with those kinds of hair analysis readings. And, if I did supplement copper, would she even be able to metabolize it?

To make matters worse, she is a nationally ranked skater, so she puts a lot of pressure on her legs. She lives for skating and it is her dream to continue skating; but we have got to solve this problem if she is to realize this dream.

Does any one here know of information related to this topic? I would be eternally grateful for you input.

Have you brought the high copper levels to the attention of her doctor? There is a condition that can cause this, I really wish I could remember the name, but it can be serious. I would not supplement her with excess copper unless I knew for sure she needed it. I also have large varicose veins and one thing I found helpful was elastic or support stocking, perhaps they might help. Also there are many therapies available to deal with varicose veins if they are causing ulcers or pain, you may want to ask your doctor what is available.

[mommida]

Chelsea are you googling copper defiencies or other disorders yet?

I used to skate too in the Detroit area.

L.

[ravenwoodglass]

Hi, I finally remembered the name, it is Wilsons disease. I did a search on WebMd and this is part of what I found

"Wilson's Disease

Synonyms

Hepatolenticular Degeneration

Lenticular Degeneration, Progressive

General Discussion

Wilson’s disease is a rare genetic disorder characterized by excess copper stored in various body tissues, particularly the liver, brain, and corneas of the eyes. The disease is progressive and, if left untreated, it may cause liver (hepatic) disease, central nervous system dysfunction, and death. Early diagnosis and treatment may prevent serious long-term disability and life threatening complications. Treatment is aimed at reducing the amount of copper that has accumulated in the body and maintaining normal copper levels thereafter."

Please make sure you have your regular doctor check things out. You don't want to treat this with just vitamins without knowing for sure. If you do a search for this please use a medical site and whatever you do don't do a liver cleanse or something like that without your doctors approval.

[mommida]

If this link doesn't work PM your e-mail address.

It mention's Wilson Disease, and seizures, Celiac Disease, and Selective IgA Defiency all in the same article, and came up when I searched for copper defiency. I can't help but think it might be relevant but I'm not very computer savy.

www.midf.org/michigan_immunodefiency_foundation_selective_iga_defiency.htm This is the Michigan Immunodeficiency Foundation.

L.

[Green12]

When I started reading down this thread I was saying to the computer screen "Wilson's Disease", "Wilson's Disease". Glad you guys figured it out.

I was diagnosed with Wilson's Syndrome, which is different, but when I first got the diagnosis I couldn't find any information on it, only for Wilson's Disease so I read a little about it. Interestingly enough, I have a big copper speck in one of my eyes since forever and the research said that was copper and one of the signs of Wilson's Disease.

All the women in my maternal line had/have vericose veins. I wish there was something that could be done about them, other than the stripping or laser surgery.

[TCA]

My grandmother had this problem with vericose veins at a young age. She is gone now, but the more I learn, the more I am sure she had celiac. sorry I'm not more help! She also had terrible thyroid problems and had it removed.

[debimashni]

Two of my children have Wilson's Disease, and the rest carry the disease (I am also a carrier). It is a auto recessive genetic disease. My oldest daughter almost died from it...she went into liver failure. Wilsons disease requires treatment, it is fatal without treatment.

Sometimes carriers of the Wilson's gene have slightly elevated copper levels, althought not enough to require treatment. My son with Celiac disease sometimes has elevated urine copper levels.

If anyone else has any info on Celiac and Wilsons Disease, I would be interested in reading it.

[Green12]

Two of my children have Wilson's Disease, and the rest carry the disease (I am also a carrier). It is a auto recessive genetic disease. My oldest daughter almost died from it...she went into liver failure. Wilsons disease requires treatment, it is fatal without treatment.

Sometimes carriers of the Wilson's gene have slightly elevated copper levels, althought not enough to require treatment. My son with Celiac disease sometimes has elevated urine copper levels.

If anyone else has any info on Celiac and Wilsons Disease, I would be interested in reading it.

Are there tests for Wilson's Disease? Do any of your children, or yourself, have a copper speck in your eye? And what is the treatment if I may ask? I did read it was serious and potentially fatal.

[debimashni]

None of my children developed the KF rings (copper rings in the eyes).

They use several tests to diagnose Wilsons including ceruloplasmin level, serum copper, 24hr urine copper and liver biopsy. My daughter had elevated liver enzymes and elevated bilirubin (20x normal) and was very yellow before she was diagnosed.

We were very lucky that we live by the University of Michigan Hospital. They were doing clinical studies on an experimental drug called TM (I don't know the generic name), that basically saved her life. She was in liver failure, her blood wouldn't clot and she rarely woke up. She was in the hospital for 2 1/2 months. She was waiting for a liver transplant, when the new meds started chelating the copper out of her liver. She still has cirrhosis....but she takes good care of herself. She now takes a medication 3x/day called Galzin (which is basically Zinc).

Three of the patients (of about 15) who were in the drug study at the same time she was, have died because they didn't take their medication. That was the worst time of my life.

If you have any more questions, feel free to email me at debismashni@aol.com.

[Green12]

None of my children developed the KF rings (copper rings in the eyes).

They use several tests to diagnose Wilsons including ceruloplasmin level, serum copper, 24hr urine copper and liver biopsy. My daughter had elevated liver enzymes and elevated bilirubin (20x normal) and was very yellow before she was diagnosed.

We were very lucky that we live by the University of Michigan Hospital. They were doing clinical studies on an experimental drug called TM (I don't know the generic name), that basically saved her life. She was in liver failure, her blood wouldn't clot and she rarely woke up. She was in the hospital for 2 1/2 months. She was waiting for a liver transplant, when the new meds started chelating the copper out of her liver. She still has cirrhosis....but she takes good care of herself. She now takes a medication 3x/day called Galzin (which is basically Zinc).

Three of the patients (of about 15) who were in the drug study at the same time she was, have died because they didn't take their medication. That was the worst time of my life.

If you have any more questions, feel free to email me at debismashni@aol.com.

Omgosh this is really serious, I'm glad your daughter is doing better. Thanks for this information. The copper in the eye shows up as rings? I just have a copper blob in the color part of one of my eyes (sorry don't know the anatomy of the eye).

[SurreyGirl]

...

I have had many hair analysis done on my daughter and they all come back VERY high copper, low zinc (which is a copper antagonist). All the nutritional-type doctors who did these hair analysis (over the years) put her on extra zinc to bring down the copper.

BUT, it appears that there is just as good a case that she is actually low copper (at least metabolized copper) that in essence copper is not being utilized by her body so it is storing in her hair and giving a false reading. The question is, if she is actually short copper, she needs it to help with her weak vein walls....but how do I know for sure and do I risk giving her copper with those kinds of hair analysis readings. And, if I did supplement copper, would she even be able to metabolize it?

To make matters worse, she is a nationally ranked skater, so she puts a lot of pressure on her legs. She lives for skating and it is her dream to continue skating; but we have got to solve this problem if she is to realize this dream.

Does any one here know of information related to this topic? I would be eternally grateful for you input.

Hi Meg

I know this thread is quite old now, but I would like to add my recent discovery on this subject.

My son (age 15, gluten sensittive with neurological symptoms that have receded in the last 2 years of being gluten free) had some bloods done recently to check how his deficiencies have improved. Some have, but we discovered that his free copper is deficient and he is low in ceruloplasmin (copper-based enzyme).

In the last year or so he developed stretch marks on his upper arms and thighs, which I have now discovered are not only connected to copper deficiency but also pancreatic enzymes deficiency! I wouldn't have connected the stretch marks to pancreas myself, but when I accumulate a stash of queries, I write to our gluten sensitivity consultant (Dr H in UK), who replied saying that some of his gluten sensitive patients have a deficiency of a pancreatic enzyme called elastase. I am now working on getting some tests done locally to assess pancreatic function in my son, in case he might need supplementing. Elastase plays part in connective tissue disorders, inc varicose veins, stretchmarks, aneurysms etc. I am also at this moment in time looking into homeopathy to revive the vital force that deals with connective tissue.

Going back to copper, I am reluctant to supplement, as copper can be toxic and I suspect that my son does have some unchelated copper in his liver/tissue from pre-gluten days, so we try and concentrate on good diet for the time being. I have also read that high level of copper in hair is caused by coper toxicity, where body tries to remove it that way if the liver is overloaded or unable to chelate it internally (I think it was in Ellen Grant's book). It all seems to point to enzyme deficiencies - and I am sure there must be other enzymes that are affected too.

Does anyone else have any thoughts/discoveries to add?

[Rayoohoo]

Meg44 I am writing a book with publisher contract on Natural Healing Kitchen Pharmacy An Apple A day, and high serum levels is a well know sign of copper deficiency strangely enough the body is trying to mobilize copper for repair. Your daughter should get 2 to 4 mg of copper a day irrespective of what analysis she has and this 2 to 4 mg simply does not occur in the industrial American diet. Also she should take as much vitamin C as she can tolerate this will strengthen vein and arteries also. It is hard to say how much everybody is different 2000 mg and if and cut down if not tolerated.

[Rayoohoo]

Hi Meg

I know this thread is quite old now, but I would like to add my recent discovery on this subject.

My son (age 15, gluten sensittive with neurological symptoms that have receded in the last 2 years of being gluten free) had some bloods done recently to check how his deficiencies have improved. Some have, but we discovered that his free copper is deficient and he is low in ceruloplasmin (copper-based enzyme).

In the last year or so he developed stretch marks on his upper arms and thighs, which I have now discovered are not only connected to copper deficiency but also pancreatic enzymes deficiency! I wouldn't have connected the stretch marks to pancreas myself, but when I accumulate a stash of queries, I write to our gluten sensitivity consultant (Dr H in UK), who replied saying that some of his gluten sensitive patients have a deficiency of a pancreatic enzyme called elastase. I am now working on getting some tests done locally to assess pancreatic function in my son, in case he might need supplementing. Elastase plays part in connective tissue disorders, inc varicose veins, stretchmarks, aneurysms etc. I am also at this moment in time looking into homeopathy to revive the vital force that deals with connective tissue.

Going back to copper, I am reluctant to supplement, as copper can be toxic and I suspect that my son does have some unchelated copper in his liver/tissue from pre-gluten days, so we try and concentrate on good diet for the time being. I have also read that high level of copper in hair is caused by coper toxicity, where body tries to remove it that way if the liver is overloaded or unable to chelate it internally (I think it was in Ellen Grant's book). It all seems to point to enzyme deficiencies - and I am sure there must be other enzymes that are affected too.

Does anyone else have any thoughts/discoveries to add?

[Rayoohoo]

Hi Meg

I know this thread is quite old now, but I would like to add my recent discovery on this subject.

My son (age 15, gluten sensittive with neurological symptoms that have receded in the last 2 years of being gluten free) had some bloods done recently to check how his deficiencies have improved. Some have, but we discovered that his free copper is deficient and he is low in ceruloplasmin (copper-based enzyme).

In the last year or so he developed stretch marks on his upper arms and thighs, which I have now discovered are not only connected to copper deficiency but also pancreatic enzymes deficiency! I wouldn't have connected the stretch marks to pancreas myself, but when I accumulate a stash of queries, I write to our gluten sensitivity consultant (Dr H in UK), who replied saying that some of his gluten sensitive patients have a deficiency of a pancreatic enzyme called elastase. I am now working on getting some tests done locally to assess pancreatic function in my son, in case he might need supplementing. Elastase plays part in connective tissue disorders, inc varicose veins, stretchmarks, aneurysms etc. I am also at this moment in time looking into homeopathy to revive the vital force that deals with connective tissue.

Going back to copper, I am reluctant to supplement, as copper can be toxic and I suspect that my son does have some unchelated copper in his liver/tissue from pre-gluten days, so we try and concentrate on good diet for the time being. I have also read that high level of copper in hair is caused by coper toxicity, where body tries to remove it that way if the liver is overloaded or unable to chelate it internally (I think it was in Ellen Grant's book). It all seems to point to enzyme deficiencies - and I am sure there must be other enzymes that are affected too.

Does anyone else have any thoughts/discoveries to add?

[Rayoohoo]

Surreygirl there is an overwhelming shortage ov coppe in the western diet, go google Dr John Sorenson and you will see dozens of scientific references showing that high copper blood serum content is an indication of copper deficiency, the body is trying to mobilize copper to send it to the diseased site.

[Lisa]

Meg44 I am writing a book with publisher contract on Natural Healing Kitchen Pharmacy An Apple A day, and high serum levels is a well know sign of copper deficiency strangely enough the body is trying to mobilize copper for repair. Your daughter should get 2 to 4 mg of copper a day irrespective of what analysis she has and this 2 to 4 mg simply does not occur in the industrial American diet. Also she should take as much vitamin C as she can tolerate this will strengthen vein and arteries also. It is hard to say how much everybody is different 2000 mg and if and cut down if not tolerated.

Sound professional medical advise should not be substituted.

[bittykitty]

This first tell tale sign my body isn't getting what it needs is the varicose veins in my legs get worse.Now I know for sure how to clear it up.Thank you so much for this thread.