What's The Deal With Soy?

[mythreesuns]

I have read some people say that soy is poison, but for someone who can't have gluten and can't have milk, for crying out loud what's left!? LOL

I wouldn't even begin to know how to stay away from soy.

[ravenwoodglass]

I have read some people say that soy is poison, but for someone who can't have gluten and can't have milk, for crying out loud what's left!? LOL

I wouldn't even begin to know how to stay away from soy.

Hi, for right now you may want to read the posts about it but I wouldn't even try to eliminate it until you have been gluten-free for a little while. If after a couple of months gluten-free/CF you are still having troubles then maybe consider eliminating soy and see if it helps. Many of us have troubles with soy, and there is some conflicting research out there about the effects of eating large amounts. For right now just cruise the posts and the net for info on it but IMHO you should spend awhile dealing with gluten-free/CF. You don't want to end up too overwhelmed. There are lots of folks who know more about soy than me and I am sure they will come on and perhaps give more detail. As for me I don't avoid soy, but I don't consume large amounts of it either.

[ms-sillyak-screwed]

Try GOATS MILK.

[Mia H]

Do you not drink milk because of the lactose or the casein?

I'm intolerant to the casein and goats milk also has casein.

I like almond milk, the original tastes like regular milk in cereal and cooking. For butter I used ghee which is clarified butter, has no lactose or casein in it. I buy it at the natural food store.

For ice cream I eat ben & jerry's sorbet.

For me my hair has been falling out so I am trying to go without soy and see if that helps. It was in my shampoo even.

I agree with others, get a handle on the gluten/milk thing first, worry about soy when you're up for it.

Mia

[gfp]

I agree with others, get a handle on the gluten/milk thing first, worry about soy when you're up for it.

Mia

Well the other way is cut out everything right at the beginning and then slowly introduce?

I think summer is perhaps the easiest time to do this if you decide.

One reason is that the casein allergy and lactose intolerance can both be exasperated by the gluten and damaged villi and many people find they can add limited amounts back after a while.

I'm not rabidly anti-soy but I definately watch it... Far too many people with one auto immune response seem to trigger others. My mother has almost identical glutening symptoms as myself (not surprising really) but she reacts really badly to soy. She spent (or more accurately wasted) a year of her life in misery after starting eating soy in any quantity (before this she was a vcery occiasional soy sauce person but not TSP or other soy products...

It took her a year to be REALLY gluten-free as well so its hard to tell but she now tolerates the small amount of soy in some of her meds.

[IrishKelly]

Does anybody know what is in soy (like maybe a protein?) that people cannot tolerate?

[ms-sillyak-screwed]

It contain nitrogen-fixing bacteria

sounds like poison to me

I'm intolerant to the casein and goats milk also has casein.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

I'm a little suprised my doc recomended GOATS MILK. As a infant I couldn't drink cows milk but I could drink goats milk. I wonder why? And the book 'Dangerous Grains' says people who can't tollerate dairy can drink goats milk, it has a different makeup.

I also found something else. This lady is very helpful and I have read her book.

Open Original Shared Link

[jnclelland]

It contain nitrogen-fixing bacteria

sounds like poison to me

Nitrogen-fixing bacteria are actually a very important part of the ecosystem. "Nitrogen-fixing" refers to the fact that nitrogen in the air is in the form of an inert gas, and these bacteria have the ability to "fix" it with other atoms to form ammonia and nitrate, which are necessary for plant growth.

I don't know off the top of my head whether or not these are something that you'd want to be eating, but I wouldn't just write them off as poison.

Jeanne

[Mia H]

I'm a little suprised my doc recomended GOATS MILK. As a infant I couldn't drink cows milk but I could drink goats milk. I wonder why? And the book 'Dangerous Grains' says people who can't tollerate dairy can drink goats milk, it has a different makeup.

I also found something else. This lady is very helpful and I have read her book.

Open Original Shared Link

[mythreesuns]

Do you not drink milk because of the lactose or the casein?

I'm intolerant to the casein and goats milk also has casein.

I like almond milk, the original tastes like regular milk in cereal and cooking. For butter I used ghee which is clarified butter, has no lactose or casein in it. I buy it at the natural food store.

For ice cream I eat ben & jerry's sorbet.

For me my hair has been falling out so I am trying to go without soy and see if that helps. It was in my shampoo even.

I agree with others, get a handle on the gluten/milk thing first, worry about soy when you're up for it.

Mia

I believe it's the casein. When I tried to eliminate just the Lactose I only got limited results. I have a head full of hair, so if soy IS affecting me, it's not in that department! LOL

Well the other way is cut out everything right at the beginning and then slowly introduce?

I think summer is perhaps the easiest time to do this if you decide.

One reason is that the casein allergy and lactose intolerance can both be exasperated by the gluten and damaged villi and many people find they can add limited amounts back after a while.

I'm not rabidly anti-soy but I definately watch it... Far too many people with one auto immune response seem to trigger others. My mother has almost identical glutening symptoms as myself (not surprising really) but she reacts really badly to soy. She spent (or more accurately wasted) a year of her life in misery after starting eating soy in any quantity (before this she was a vcery occiasional soy sauce person but not TSP or other soy products...

It took her a year to be REALLY gluten-free as well so its hard to tell but she now tolerates the small amount of soy in some of her meds.

I actually started this whole journey by eliminating lactose, then added milk, then gluten. I really don't know if I could handle giving up any more right now! LOL

Well the other way is cut out everything right at the beginning and then slowly introduce?

I think summer is perhaps the easiest time to do this if you decide.

One reason is that the casein allergy and lactose intolerance can both be exasperated by the gluten and damaged villi and many people find they can add limited amounts back after a while.

I'm not rabidly anti-soy but I definately watch it... Far too many people with one auto immune response seem to trigger others. My mother has almost identical glutening symptoms as myself (not surprising really) but she reacts really badly to soy. She spent (or more accurately wasted) a year of her life in misery after starting eating soy in any quantity (before this she was a vcery occiasional soy sauce person but not TSP or other soy products...

It took her a year to be REALLY gluten-free as well so its hard to tell but she now tolerates the small amount of soy in some of her meds.

What kind of response did she have to it? What should I look out for?

I really don't think I'm having a reaction to it, but the only thing I do know is that my arthritis didn't rear it's ugly head until I went milk-free (and started injestion a lot more soy) but that seems like a pretty quick turn-around to me. Also, my migraines virtually DISAPPEARED after eliminating casein (and thus starting on the soy), so I don't know what to think.

[gfp]

I believe it's the casein. When I tried to eliminate just the Lactose I only got limited results. I have a head full of hair, so if soy IS affecting me, it's not in that department! LOL

I actually started this whole journey by eliminating lactose, then added milk, then gluten. I really don't know if I could handle giving up any more right now! LOL

What kind of response did she have to it? What should I look out for?

That's the problem, D, indigestion ... pretty much the same as celiac disease.

I really don't think I'm having a reaction to it, but the only thing I do know is that my arthritis didn't rear it's ugly head until I went milk-free (and started injestion a lot more soy) but that seems like a pretty quick turn-around to me. Also, my migraines virtually DISAPPEARED after eliminating casein (and thus starting on the soy), so I don't know what to think.

I know its like a minefield.

Like I say I'm not rabidly anti-soy, I just minimise it.

The point is loads of stuff has soy and I don't want to have to cope with eliminating it altogether at a later date through provoking something now.

I'm a little suprised my doc recomended GOATS MILK. As a infant I couldn't drink cows milk but I could drink goats milk. I wonder why?

People have been drinking goat/sheep milk for a lot longer than cows milk. Goat/sheep milk has been around since man was a hunter gatherer ... cows milk is mainly only a dietry item for the last 10,000 yrs.

[eKatherine]

People have been drinking goat/sheep milk for a lot longer than cows milk. Goat/sheep milk has been around since man was a hunter gatherer ... cows milk is mainly only a dietry item for the last 10,000 yrs.

According to Dogtorj, cow's milk has only become a major component in the diet in the past 500 years, with the arrival of mass dairy businesses. Previously people mostly kept goats and sheep, which were more manageable.

I find that goat cheese is fine. I hate the taste of goat's milk, so I don't use it. Sheep's milk cheese give me the same casein reaction as cow's milk.

Different protein. Goat milk protein forms a softer curd (the term given to the protein clumps that are formed by the action of your stomach acid on the protein), which makes the protein more easily and rapidly digestible. Theoretically, this more rapid transit through the stomach could be an advantage to infants and children who regurgitate cow's milk easily. Goat's milk may also have advantages when it comes to allergies. Goat's milk contains only trace amounts of an allergenic casein protein, alpha-S1, found in cow's milk. Goat's milk casein is more similar to human milk, yet cow's milk and goat's milk contain similar levels of the other allergenic protein, beta lactoglobulin. Scientific studies have not found a decreased incidence of allergy with goat's milk, but here is another situation where mothers' observations and scientific studies are at odds with one another. Some mothers are certain that their child tolerates goat's milk better than cow's milk, and mothers are more sensitive to children's reactions than scientific studies.

Open Original Shared Link

Ovine vs. Bovine

Sheep's milk offers distinct nutritional benefits, containing 75 percent more protein than cow's milk and almost twice as much calcium, along with plenty of zinc, vitamin E, and vitamin C. Granted, sheep milk has a higher fat content, which gives it a creamy flavor. But this fat is more easily digested than the fat in cow's milk, making it an option for those with cow's milk allergies. With almost twice as many milk solids as cow's milk and high levels of casein, sheep milk yields twice as much cheese from fluid milk in a shorter amount of time. Most sheep's milk is used in cheese making, and popular cheeses include feta, asiago, ricotta, and Pecorina romano.

Open Original Shared Link

Wow, no wonder I react to small amounts of sheep's milk cheese. Byebye romano for good!

It looks like the dairy allergy or intolerance is a complex thing.

[gfp]

According to Dogtorj, cow's milk has only become a major component in the diet in the past 500 years, with the arrival of mass dairy businesses. Previously people mostly kept goats and sheep, which were more manageable.

I find that goat cheese is fine. I hate the taste of goat's milk, so I don't use it. Sheep's milk cheese give me the same casein reaction as cow's milk.

It looks like the dairy allergy or intolerance is a complex thing.

Open Original Shared Link

Yes I was giving the maximum lee-way since some cultures did or at least archaelogical evidence points that they did. Inparticualr the pre-dravidian peoples of the Indus valley...

With the exception of stilton and Parmigiano Reggiano there are really very few cheeses worth the name made from cows milk depending if you count buffalo as cow IMHO.

Also neither do goat or cheese products require pasturisation against TB and cheeses made from them contain many pro-biotics when not pasturised.

p.s. If you have never had real Parmigiano Reggiano it is nothing resembling the "copies" made in the US.

[eKatherine]

Yes I was giving the maximum lee-way since some cultures did or at least archaelogical evidence points that they did. Inparticualr the pre-dravidian peoples of the Indus valley...

With the exception of stilton and Parmigiano Reggiano there are really very few cheeses worth the name made from cows milk depending if you count buffalo as cow IMHO.

Also neither do goat or cheese products require pasturisation against TB and cheeses made from them contain many pro-biotics when not pasturised.

p.s. If you have never had real Parmigiano Reggiano it is nothing resembling the "copies" made in the US.

I'd have to disagree with you. There are many types of cow's milk cheese I used to enjoy. It's just a matter of personal taste if you only have found two that you like.

But in any case, no cow's milk cheese is in my future, including Parmagiano Reggiano.

[elye]

Back to the soy for a sec--I have been reading and abiding by everything Dr. Joseph Mercola has said for years now (www.mercola.com). He warns everybody to stay completely away from UNFERMENTED soy, which is the common stuff--tofu, food additives, TVP. But FERMENTED soy (tempeh, miso) is in fact very beneficial for your health, as all properly fermented foods are. Interesting...I haven't bothered to search out the fermented products as they are tougher to find and I'm still kind of new to all this. But Dr. Mercola is worth reading on all of this (you should hear what he has to say about GLUTEN)!

[gfp]

I'd have to disagree with you. There are many types of cow's milk cheese I used to enjoy. It's just a matter of personal taste if you only have found two that you like.

For me it was largely a backwards process. When I decided to reduce cow milk products I actually realised that most of the ones I actually REALLY liked were sheep or goats.

It might just be personal taste....but it might also be a bit of the body knowing what's good and bad?

I have to be really strict with myself over cheese in any event because I can't afford the calories so I started thinking, if I'm only having a small amount infrequently I should just buy what I really like regardless of cost.

When I did this I just found that nearly all the cheeses I really loved were sheep and goat and the odd buffalo but most of the chesses I could take or leave were cow. Like you point out cow cheese is a pretty new affair and most of the cheeses I like pre-date the dominance of cow milk.

But in any case, no cow's milk cheese is in my future, including Parmagiano Reggiano.

[mythreesuns]

Well, I'm staying away from gluten and casein...and that's about all I can handle right now! LOL

I'm still pretty new to all of this, so I'll have to see how it goes as I'm off the gluten longer and longer.

Thanks, guys!