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Yenni

So How Does "the World" Look Upon Enterolab?

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I am curious if you guys know how other doctors/"the world" look upon EnetroLab. I haven't seen EnteroLab getting mentioned in any books I have read or any articles.

Seems many doctors do not honor their results either.

Do you guys have any impression of this?

Thoughts?


One Celiac gene and one gluten intolerance gene (HLA-DQ 2,1).

Grain free, casein free, soy/legume free + a bunch of allergies I have had since I was a child (stone fruits, nuts..carrots)

Following the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, but no nuts, legumes or casein.

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I think the testing is just new and Dr. Fine's research is not yet published, so docs are skeptical. The current technology is decades old ... but the medical bureacracy is slow to change to something more effective. The current technology lets many of us down. My primary care doc thought it looked good and mentioned using it in the future since the blood test let me down (I was gluten-free at the time of the blood test). He saw the change in me from going gluten-free.


gluten-free 12/05

diagnosed with Lyme Disease 12/06

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Dr. Fine is mentioned in Dangerous Grains.

Other than that....what Carla said.

He's not published his work yet. Some doctors do accept his tests though.


Andrea

Enterolab positive results only June 06:
Me HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0201; HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0301; Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 2,3 (subtype 2, 7)
Husband HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0201; HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0302; Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 2,3 (subtype 2,8)



The whole family has been soy free since February, gluten free since June 2006.

The whole family went back to a gluten diet October 2011.  We never had official testing done and I decided to give gluten a go again.  At this point I've decided to work on making some gluten free things again, though healthwise everyone seems to be fine.  The decision to add gluten back in was also made based on other things I'd read about the 2nd sequence of genes.  It is my belief that we had a gluten intolerance, but thanks to things I've learned here, I know more what to keep an eye on.  If you have a confirmed case of celiac, please don't go back to gluten, it's a lifelong lifestyle change.

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Makes me think of the 2 Australian doctors who found the Helicobacter and said they caused Ulcers in the stomach. The world laughed at them for 10 years, then they got the Nobel prize. ;)

Maybe EnteroLab/Dr Fine will end up that way..

;)

Dr. Fine is mentioned in Dangerous Grains.

Other than that....what Carla said.

He's not published his work yet. Some doctors do accept his tests though.

I saw that he was mentioned in the back as a author to a book, but not EnteroLab itself/the work there. maybe I missed it.


One Celiac gene and one gluten intolerance gene (HLA-DQ 2,1).

Grain free, casein free, soy/legume free + a bunch of allergies I have had since I was a child (stone fruits, nuts..carrots)

Following the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, but no nuts, legumes or casein.

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i can tell you that i come from a family of doctors, and each one of them thinks it's hoooey. They do believe strongly however in evidence of improvement on the diet, so if enterolab is what it takes to get one to commit to the diet, then that's something.


Diagnosed through Enterolab (9.27.06)

Antigliadin IgA 164 (Normal Range <10 Units)

Antitissue Transglutaminase IgA 75 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

Quantitative Microscopic Fat Score 874 Units (Normal Range <300 Units)

Fecal anti-casein (cow’s milk) IgA antibody 73 Units (Normal Range <10 Units)

HLA-DQ 2,1 (Subtype 2,5)

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I think there's a two-fold problem with Enterolab - the medical profession is slow to change and accept new things, and Dr. Fine is trying to promote a business. He hasn't published studies or information on his particular process, so the doctors are skeptical, and I think part of his reason is a desire to keep his business going as well as possible (my cynical mind expects he's waiting on patents :P). The same approach of stool testing is being researched in Italy, actually, and looks promising, so I expect it's going to end up going well, but it'll take a while.


Tiffany aka "Have I Mentioned Chocolate Lately?"

Inconclusive Blood Tests, Positive Dietary Results, No Endoscopy

G.F. - September 2003; C.F. - July 2004

Hiker, Yoga Teacher, Engineer, Painter, Be-er of Me

Bellevue, WA

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I think there's a two-fold problem with Enterolab - the medical profession is slow to change and accept new things, and Dr. Fine is trying to promote a business. He hasn't published studies or information on his particular process, so the doctors are skeptical, and I think part of his reason is a desire to keep his business going as well as possible (my cynical mind expects he's waiting on patents :P). The same approach of stool testing is being researched in Italy, actually, and looks promising, so I expect it's going to end up going well, but it'll take a while.

Aren't they working on a blood test there too? One that is done in the finger. I thought I read that somewhere..

I sure hope it will not end up being a "fiasco" with EnteroLab..


One Celiac gene and one gluten intolerance gene (HLA-DQ 2,1).

Grain free, casein free, soy/legume free + a bunch of allergies I have had since I was a child (stone fruits, nuts..carrots)

Following the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, but no nuts, legumes or casein.

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Can anyone explain why doctors think Enterolab is "bogus?" Did anyone's doctor explain why they think it is a scam? I have heard that everyone creates antibodies in their stool so everyone would therefore test positive. I am just curious if doctors are explaining why they disagree with it. I would hope that Dr. Fine would not be doing what he does solely to scam people and make money. But even if he is, most people who test through Enterolab probably have Celiac anyhow and need the validation. I don't think the lab is hurting anyone, but I am still curious about the specifics as to why doctors say it is a scam.

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So they even say it is a scam huh? :blink:

I have to say it would have felt better if I would have gotten diagnosed through the "golden standard". For some reason my mind distrusts the EnteroLab stuff some with the way other doctors seem to not like it.

I know there are a lot of bad doctors out there though.

Also the fact that I seem to not get all that better.. Hmm..


One Celiac gene and one gluten intolerance gene (HLA-DQ 2,1).

Grain free, casein free, soy/legume free + a bunch of allergies I have had since I was a child (stone fruits, nuts..carrots)

Following the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, but no nuts, legumes or casein.

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So they even say it is a scam huh? :blink:

I have to say it would have felt better if I would have gotten diagnosed through the "golden standard". For some reason my mind distrusts the EnteroLab stuff some with the way other doctors seem to not like it.

I know there are a lot of bad doctors out there though.

Also the fact that I seem to not get all that better.. Hmm..

I see you were diagnosed in October of this year. It takes time to get better! I am still struggling, 10 months gluten-free! But I am improving.

Keep giving the diet a chance. Most docs do accept dietary response.


gluten-free 12/05

diagnosed with Lyme Disease 12/06

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what do the sub-types mean?


Christine

15 year old twins with celiac, diagnosed dec. 2005

11 year old daughter with celiac diagnosed dec 2005

17 year old son with celiac gene

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I see you were diagnosed in October of this year. It takes time to get better! I am still struggling, 10 months gluten-free! But I am improving.

Keep giving the diet a chance. Most docs do accept dietary response.

I went Gluten free in May. My heart burn changed a lot, but I cross contaminated myself LOTS I am sure. I still ate soy too (had a 9 on EnteroLab I believe I do not do well on it).

Seems June was good for me..but now I am just as bad as I was this spring. I don't get it.

It makes me wounder. I have had two blood tests that has been negative in the past.

I am not gonna quit or anything, it just makes me feel a little uneasy.


One Celiac gene and one gluten intolerance gene (HLA-DQ 2,1).

Grain free, casein free, soy/legume free + a bunch of allergies I have had since I was a child (stone fruits, nuts..carrots)

Following the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, but no nuts, legumes or casein.

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I went Gluten free in May. My heart burn changed a lot, but I cross contaminated myself LOTS I am sure. I still ate soy too (had a 9 on EnteroLab I believe I do not do well on it).

Seems June was good for me..but now I am just as bad as I was this spring. I don't get it.

It makes me wounder. I have had two blood tests that has been negative in the past.

I am not gonna quit or anything, it just makes me feel a little uneasy.

I got better when I first got off gluten and casein, then I got worse again. I also suffer from adrenal fatigue, so I'm healing from that, too. What my doc has explained is that when the body has energy to heal, then it heals. So, you will have good times and bad because healing takes energy. Just as you didn't get sick all at once, rather you felt good, then bad, then good again until you felt bad more than good, you will cycle in much the same way until you feel good more than bad, then good all the time. It amazes me how long this takes to heal from. Now I'm starting to understand why they say the average healing time is 2 years!


gluten-free 12/05

diagnosed with Lyme Disease 12/06

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I got better when I first got off gluten and casein, then I got worse again. I also suffer from adrenal fatigue, so I'm healing from that, too. What my doc has explained is that when the body has energy to heal, then it heals. So, you will have good times and bad because healing takes energy. Just as you didn't get sick all at once, rather you felt good, then bad, then good again until you felt bad more than good, you will cycle in much the same way until you feel good more than bad, then good all the time. It amazes me how long this takes to heal from. Now I'm starting to understand why they say the average healing time is 2 years!

Thank you Carla, I need to hear this. :P

I was burnt out 4 years ago. Stress at work and my stomach was starting to get really bad before it happened too. I have been tired for years it seems.

How do you get well from Adrenal Fatigue?

(getting off topic here a little- I'd love to hear more thoughts/ideas on EnteroLab)


One Celiac gene and one gluten intolerance gene (HLA-DQ 2,1).

Grain free, casein free, soy/legume free + a bunch of allergies I have had since I was a child (stone fruits, nuts..carrots)

Following the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, but no nuts, legumes or casein.

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Thank you Carla, I need to hear this. :P

I was burnt out 4 years ago. Stress at work and my stomach was starting to get really bad before it happened too. I have been tired for years it seems.

How do you get well from Adrenal Fatigue?

(getting off topic here a little- I'd love to hear more thoughts/ideas on EnteroLab)

I read a book called Tired of Being Tired by Jesse Lynn Hanley, M.D. It was really good and outlined a plan to heal from adrenal fatigue. I am going to a doctor who also practices holistic medicine, so is working with me to overcome it as well. You can learn a lot from googling adrenal fatigue and adrenal bunout, but the book gets into much more detail.

Lots of rest is important, several small meals eating whole foods featuring protein at every meal, more rest, lower stress, more rest ;) , no sugar, no alcohol, no caffeine, no processed foods, bed by 10, sleep in if you can, light exercise. It actually makes gluten-free seem easy!!! After a couple months of this, plus I've been having acupuncture (that's how desperate I was ... and it seems to help), and far-infrared sauna daily, I am starting to get better. The doctor says it takes a year.

I think most of us who are ill actually have it ... sometimes going gluten-free is enough to get better and the adrenals will heal themselves, but some of us need a little more than that. I had gotten to the point where I couldn't get out of bed much. Now I have good days and bad days.


gluten-free 12/05

diagnosed with Lyme Disease 12/06

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As a career scientist (not in medicine) I'll make a few comments addressing why doctors generally do not feel any requirement to justify not agreeing with something. Hope this doesn't sound too pedantic.

Most of what we call progress in the last couple of centuries has been made based on use of the "scientific method". This method is based on having observable evidence for any proposed new claim. Equally important is to publish this experiemental data along with the experiemental method that was used and then have other independent scientists repeat the experiment and get the same result. If these independent observers find the same evidence, then the claim is considered valid until proven otherwise. Until this sequence of events is complete one does not have to explain why one doesn't believe in the claim since it has no validity anyway.

The benefit of this approach is many fold, not the least of which to prevent a claim from being accepted as valid based on possible experiemental errors (such as happened a few years ago with the Utah professors who claimed to have discovered how to perform "cold fusion" - they published but no one could repeat their experiment and get their result) or worse, based on fraud (such as the Korean genetic scientist who claimed a few months ago to have developed a way to create stem cells - his data was exposed to be fraudulent and he was fired in disgrace). Both such events happen more often than one might think.

For people trained to routinely use this scientific method, there are several red flags regarding new unsubstantiated claims; one is the claimant not publicizing the experimental procedure and evidence so other independent persons can try to repeat it to confirm if it's valid. I believe Dr Fine falls into this category. If he really has valid experimental evidence, then the delay is very suspicious. I tend to lean toward tarnalberry's comments elsewhere in this thread.

In the case of the researchers who won the Nobel prize for discovering that stomach ulcers are usually caused by a bacteria, they did publish their results and methodology - it just took forever before any other independent researcher took them seriously enough to go to the effort to repeat the experiments. This is an unfortunate possible outcome due to normal human inertia, but quite a different situation than when someone claims something without publishing the experimental methodology and evidence.

Hopfully some may find this explanation, limited as it is, helpful and that I didn't bore too many.

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You did not bore me. I though it was very interesting. I agree with what you said and also with Tarnelberry. It does sometimes come down to money. Dr. Fine might be the real thing. And if he is waiting for patents, then they take time. But, if that is the reason he has not published then it is a shame as people may be suffering needlessly waiting for a diagnosis, because they cannot afford Enterolabs (sp) and their insurance won't pay for it.


"Throw yourself a pity-party and you'll be the only guest." - Earlene Fowler

Diag. Celiac Disease by positive blood test 2/03/2004

Allergies - corn, soy, casein, egg whites and wheat

Morphia Scleroderma

Osteoarthritis

Hypothyroid and Hperthyroid

Essential Tremors

Asthma

Migraines

Fibromyalgia - diag. in 1978 when they called it Fibrositis

PAD Peripheral Artery Disease

Angina and Atrial Fibrillation

Gluten Ataxia

Vitiligo

Scoliosis of the spine (caused by malabsorption and it is horribly painful) This would be enough reason for someone to go gluten free.

Ocular Myastenia Gravis

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nevadan----that was excellent info---thanks.

carla----how do they diagnose adrenal fatigue? my cousin has been sick for years and her family says that is what is wrong with her.


Christine

15 year old twins with celiac, diagnosed dec. 2005

11 year old daughter with celiac diagnosed dec 2005

17 year old son with celiac gene

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nevadan----that was excellent info---thanks.

carla----how do they diagnose adrenal fatigue? my cousin has been sick for years and her family says that is what is wrong with her.

Conventional medicine does not recognize it. To them, if you do not have adrenal failure, there is no problem. I was diagnosed by hair analysis, which, much like Enterlab is not widely accepted yet. It actually told me many things that I already knew, so I think it was pretty accurate, at least for me. This is the place I was tested http://www.arltma.com/index.html. They gave me a detailed explanation of the results and of their recommendations for regaining health.

Also, the book I mentioned has a questionnaire in it that is very detailed. With the "cure" for it being something that would benefit literally everyone, it's not like it would be a problem to get a probable diagnosis from a book.


gluten-free 12/05

diagnosed with Lyme Disease 12/06

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Another reason many doctors do not accept Enterolab, according to my doctor, is that if you test the general population who don't have symptoms, 30% of them will test positive for gluten intolerance. That seems too high for most to think is valid. I found my doctor by asking Enterolab for a doctor in my area. He does use Enterolab when the blood tests are negative but he is suspicious of celiac. I hear that his wife is a celiac so he is a GI doctor but also personally familiar with celiac.


Karen

gluten free 4/06

casein free 7/06

DQ1, DQ8

Daughter (11) gluten free 5/06, casein free 6/06

Daughter (9) gluten free 3/06, casein free 7/06, soy free, trying peanut free

vegetarian

gluten lite on and off since 1999

All dx'ed by Enterolab

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what do you mean by suspicious of celiac?


Christine

15 year old twins with celiac, diagnosed dec. 2005

11 year old daughter with celiac diagnosed dec 2005

17 year old son with celiac gene

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I read a book called Tired of Being Tired by Jesse Lynn Hanley, M.D. It was really good and outlined a plan to heal from adrenal fatigue. I am going to a doctor who also practices holistic medicine, so is working with me to overcome it as well. You can learn a lot from googling adrenal fatigue and adrenal bunout, but the book gets into much more detail.

Lots of rest is important, several small meals eating whole foods featuring protein at every meal, more rest, lower stress, more rest ;) , no sugar, no alcohol, no caffeine, no processed foods, bed by 10, sleep in if you can, light exercise. It actually makes gluten-free seem easy!!! After a couple months of this, plus I've been having acupuncture (that's how desperate I was ... and it seems to help), and far-infrared sauna daily, I am starting to get better. The doctor says it takes a year.

I think most of us who are ill actually have it ... sometimes going gluten-free is enough to get better and the adrenals will heal themselves, but some of us need a little more than that. I had gotten to the point where I couldn't get out of bed much. Now I have good days and bad days.

That is actually how I live. Hehe. That is a good thing anyways. I don't work and I take it easy most of the time. Eat often, sleep lots. So at leat that is something I have got going for me.

I got better after my burn out by have a feeling I kinda got it again with getting sicker and sicker.

Thanks!

Oh and I did a search on that stuff/book you mentioned (I think It was last week-you mentioned it to me in another thread). Seems I can have that. I meant to ask how to get better earlier.

I totally agree about the part wher you gradually get worse and worse with better times inbetween and then the bad just takes over more and more.

Funny, I used to be a very healthy peron. I didn't even get colds much. Then after the burn out and this stupid stomach I get everything. :(

As a career scientist (not in medicine) I'll make a few comments addressing why doctors generally do not feel any requirement to justify not agreeing with something. Hope this doesn't sound too pedantic.

Most of what we call progress in the last couple of centuries has been made based on use of the "scientific method". This method is based on having observable evidence for any proposed new claim. Equally important is to publish this experiemental data along with the experiemental method that was used and then have other independent scientists repeat the experiment and get the same result. If these independent observers find the same evidence, then the claim is considered valid until proven otherwise. Until this sequence of events is complete one does not have to explain why one doesn't believe in the claim since it has no validity anyway.

The benefit of this approach is many fold, not the least of which to prevent a claim from being accepted as valid based on possible experiemental errors (such as happened a few years ago with the Utah professors who claimed to have discovered how to perform "cold fusion" - they published but no one could repeat their experiment and get their result) or worse, based on fraud (such as the Korean genetic scientist who claimed a few months ago to have developed a way to create stem cells - his data was exposed to be fraudulent and he was fired in disgrace). Both such events happen more often than one might think.

For people trained to routinely use this scientific method, there are several red flags regarding new unsubstantiated claims; one is the claimant not publicizing the experimental procedure and evidence so other independent persons can try to repeat it to confirm if it's valid. I believe Dr Fine falls into this category. If he really has valid experimental evidence, then the delay is very suspicious. I tend to lean toward tarnalberry's comments elsewhere in this thread.

In the case of the researchers who won the Nobel prize for discovering that stomach ulcers are usually caused by a bacteria, they did publish their results and methodology - it just took forever before any other independent researcher took them seriously enough to go to the effort to repeat the experiments. This is an unfortunate possible outcome due to normal human inertia, but quite a different situation than when someone claims something without publishing the experimental methodology and evidence.

Hopfully some may find this explanation, limited as it is, helpful and that I didn't bore too many.

Interesting. I didn't mean to really compair EnteroLab with the Autralian doctors. I just thought of it.

So now we should all just wait for people in Italy to do their thing.. ;)


One Celiac gene and one gluten intolerance gene (HLA-DQ 2,1).

Grain free, casein free, soy/legume free + a bunch of allergies I have had since I was a child (stone fruits, nuts..carrots)

Following the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, but no nuts, legumes or casein.

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Maybe more of us who have used Enterolab need to encourage Dr. Fine to provide more "proof" of his methods. There could be lawsuits involved if he is completely scamming us. Maybe he needs some added pressure. I have heard that he has Celiac himself so I cannot imagine that he would set up a fradulent lab. But it would be helpful to have more answers. I wonder if anyone overseas is investigating his methods?

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Guest Kathy Ann

I might be wrong, but I thought Dr. Fine's lab along with his foundation were both non-profit. I was given the impression that Dr. Fine was doing his research from a humanitarian perspective. I certainly wouldn't blame him for desiring to honestly benefit financially from all of his efforts, but I'm pretty sure I either read that or was told that.

And realizing how much of a disruptive technology his discoveries might be to a lot of people, perhaps he is proceeding slowly to make very sure he has covered all the bases. Sometimes great researchers honestly try to procure patents before publishing in order to protect their discoveries from unscrupulous people who would use them improperly. I don't know Dr. Fine at all. But he sure strikes me as honorable much more than he does a careless scoundrel.

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I don't believe Dr. Fine is scamming anybody. He has set his cut off limits at a point where people have reported feeling better going gluten free. I, personally, believe that he has found other genes that cause damage and respond to the gluten free diet. Who knows, someday, maybe they'll be labeled as celiac genes as well.


Andrea

Enterolab positive results only June 06:
Me HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0201; HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0301; Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 2,3 (subtype 2, 7)
Husband HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 1 0201; HLA-DQB1 Molecular analysis, Allele 2 0302; Serologic equivalent: HLA-DQ 2,3 (subtype 2,8)



The whole family has been soy free since February, gluten free since June 2006.

The whole family went back to a gluten diet October 2011.  We never had official testing done and I decided to give gluten a go again.  At this point I've decided to work on making some gluten free things again, though healthwise everyone seems to be fine.  The decision to add gluten back in was also made based on other things I'd read about the 2nd sequence of genes.  It is my belief that we had a gluten intolerance, but thanks to things I've learned here, I know more what to keep an eye on.  If you have a confirmed case of celiac, please don't go back to gluten, it's a lifelong lifestyle change.

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