Oxalates And Nightshades

[Flor]

G'morning everyone! It's so great to be able to read about everyone else's experiences.

It's not so easy doing this LOD alone, so it's really helpful to feel part of a larger group even if we're not all in one place!

I'm going to post this calcium-magnesium question over at the yahoo group and see what Susan says about it.

Here's an interesting exchange from over there this morning -- some of you might find the entire thread that this came from worth looking at, as well as doing as Susan suggests and looking through the archives for "dumping":

"Re: [Trying_Low_Oxalates] Re: wide range of neurological disorders with celiac disease

Cynthia,

This does sound like "dumping" to me, and the timing is just right. Please

do a search of the archives on "dumping" and I think you will be reassured

that nothing so far is unusual! Oxalates do get into synovial fluid and

joints and can cause pain. I don't know where he might have been stashing

away oxalates on previous diet, but THIS diet tends to moblize body stores.

You might find that taking VSL#3 or another probiotic and arginine will

decrease negative symptoms.

Best wishes and may you see some new wows soon instead of ows!

Susan

At 08:47 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:

>Diane,

>

>Thanks for your encouragement to stick with LOD, although we are just

>starting. Congratulations, too.

>

>However, since May, we've had my son off almost all fruit, (per BED for

>yeast) and since starting with giving him more fruit from the LOD OK

>fruits lists, he's been experiencing more temper tantrums (not really

>common for him), and a red anus, which he said was an "ow ow," AND runny

>stools. SO...we decreased his fruit intake again, and he became

>constipated, (not uncommon for him) saying his "tummy hurt," and finally

>he went BM a couple times over the last two days.

>

>NOW, this is new: also over the last couple of days, he keeps pointing to

>his outer thighs, and saying "ow ows," and also saying "knees hurt." Is

>this sort of scenario typical for starting the diet? I'm wondering if this

>latest leg pain is part of oxalate dumping that I've read about on this

>list. ?? Or maybe it's part of his pronated feet hurting hips and knees?

>I've removed his almonds/almond milk and blueberries that he was eating

>almost daily. It's been about a week or so.

>

>Thanks,

>Cynthia"

Back to my words: So, I'm just over two weeks into the LOD. I would say the first week was by far the hardest. I haven't had diarrhea once since I started it, though I wouldn't call my poops normal yet either. They are always yellow (which I assume is bile showing through absent dark colors in the food I eat?). And still terrible intermittent gas -- maybe broccoli is the problem? There are so few vegetables we can eat!

The shin burning was pretty bad for about five days but now seems to be backing off. Foot and hip pain worse some days. And pimples out of nowhere.

So it still feels like my body is getting bad stuff out.

I've only done a few days on the VSL3 so can't say much about that yet. Their material says one might start to notice improvement on it in a week but full benefit in three weeks.

I think overall my energy is getting better, which feels huge.

More soon!

Florence

[Flor]

I just wanted to add, now two and a half weeks into the LOD that I really am feeling better! I don't want to make pronouncements too early, but this is the first time since I got sick over two years ago that I have felt this good.

I continue to be VERY hopeful about all this!

By the way, I seem to be tolerating the VSL3 just fine (now I'm wondering if my problem with the previous probiotics I took was just that I was eating everything else wrong.)

Best to you all,

Florence

[jerseyangel]

I just wanted to add, now two and a half weeks into the LOD that I really am feeling better! I don't want to make pronouncements too early, but this is the first time since I got sick over two years ago that I have felt this good.

I continue to be VERY hopeful about all this!

By the way, I seem to be tolerating the VSL3 just fine (now I'm wondering if my problem with the previous probiotics I took was just that I was eating everything else wrong.)

Best to you all,

Florence

That's such great news, Florence!

The VSL3--I'll have to look into that. I've reacted strongly to every probiotic I've tried. Does that have any dairy at all?

I'm also doing well on low-oxalate. I haven't omitted them completely, but try to stick smaller amounts of the moderate oxalate group and avoid, as much as possible, foods from the high group. The calcium is helping a lot, I believe--and the achiness I was having when I started it has subsided.

I had a reaction fron some gluten CC over the weekend, and the resulting D was minimal. The worst of the reaction was over after about a day and a half. I still feel like it's affecting me, but I can function just fine and I'm not as anxious as I normally would be at this point.

How's everyone else doing?

[Flor]

Patti,

Glad to hear you're feeling pretty well too! It sounds like maybe a little more resilient to the gluten trouble too!

I ate Thai food out last night -- the first "out" food I've had since the LOD. It was just rice noodles and broccoli, but in the old days, just the different spices would have made me sick and given me D the next day. And I feel fine this morning.

If you go to www.vsl3.com I think they have FAQs that explain about the dairy. What I remember is that they use dairy to cultivate the probiotics but then remove the dairy afterwards. They can't claim it is entirely dairy free because there might be trace amounts left, but they call it non-dairy maybe? Or vice versa? Anyway, I put about a tablespoon of cow milk in my one cup of tea a day, so I figure whatever "trace" is left in the VSL3 isn't going to be significant enough for me.

I look forward to hearing how others are doing too!

Florence

[Judyin Philly]

Hi all

Patti and Florence..........happy to hear your update.

I'm doing so much better since doing the caltrate.

I just posted this on the Urine thread some one posted as this is my issue so wanted to post here too (please forgive me) but didn't want anyone on the LOD thread to miss it and so anxious to hear any and all thoughts you have.

THIS WAS MY POST FROM URINE THREAD TODAY

hi so glad this was posted......................

Since being gluten-free 2 1/1 years and now soy dairy casein tapioca free.........nightshades and low oxalate diet.......wowow................I'll taking caltrate at each meal but............while 'd' gone and stools formed (ALMOST 100% OF THE TIME) .........................the urine always feels..............'warm' while passing and warm sensation in the bladder area

I know WEIRD...........but it's always with me.....................not UTI as i know what that feels like too so....................any ideas--------------

My gut says...............I'm passing oxalates in the urine as in 'dumping' as the LOD people call it.

It's a slight uncomfortable but not painful so wondering............going to put in the oxalate thread too.........just want to cover my bases here as trying to spend less time on computer.

can't wait to hear from you all.

hugs Judy.

PS saw the DH issue............I've had spots of itchy areas before the LOD.......and lots of 'white creamy' yeast like stuff in v outer area but not now..............some crystals like white residue.............but yes to original question i did have that too before.

[rinne]

Judy, I just had an appointment today with a doctor to go over my neurotransmitter tests, and she was asking me about calcium and magnesium. I told her I've been taking them separately (as in separate supplements), but at the same time. She told me they actually sort of cancel each other out in a way and she wants me to take my calcium in the morning and the magnesium in the evening. Still a recommended 2:1 ratio, but said I should try calcium in the morning. If you can't tolerate them together maybe taking them separately will work for you.

Donna, I am going to try that. Thanks.

I am way behind on this thread but have continued with the LOD for the past two weeks, night sweats and then hot flashes during the day seem to be the main consequences although I have also had pain in my right big toe. I know menopause is a factor in this and then I also wonder about babesia but I am inclined to think it is much more related to the LOD because the intensity tripled with the LOD.

Okay, back to discover what Rachel's scientificness was.

[AndreaB]

The VSL3--I'll have to look into that. I've reacted strongly to every probiotic I've tried. Does that have any dairy at all?

Hi Patti! I've been following my friends on this thread, although I'm not on the LOD.

My doctor has Mitch, Seth and I on PB8. We didn't test well for the goat probiotic we have (thankfully the other 2 can have that) and we're both sensitive to dairy. It doesn't say dairy free but we do ok with it. If you haven't tried it yet, maybe you could.

[jerseyangel]

Hi Patti! I've been following my friends on this thread, although I'm not on the LOD.

My doctor has Mitch, Seth and I on PB8. We didn't test well for the goat probiotic we have (thankfully the other 2 can have that) and we're both sensitive to dairy. It doesn't say dairy free but we do ok with it. If you haven't tried it yet, maybe you could.

Hi Andrea!

Thanks for the tip on PB8. I shall look into that, too. It think a probiotic would be a good thing for me, it's just a matter of finding the right one.

Glad you are posting/reading here You don't have to be LOD to pop in--you're always welcome

[Judyin Philly]

hi andrea so good to see you

Renni........look back on here and see all the people with pain in big toe.......patti one i think

please both of you keep coming back

we need all you guys to help us here

j

[jerseyangel]

I am inclined to think it is much more related to the LOD because the intensity tripled with the LOD.

It does seem like more than coincidence. I am definately dealing with menopause, having gone through it surgically in January. Up until the LOD and the calcium, I was only bothered by hot flashes at night. Lately, I've had some "warm" surges (not quite hot flashes) during the day. This of course could be hormonal, but the timing makes me think.

The toe pain seems to be a common thread among a lot of us. Mine got better after going gluten-free, but my thumb joint (which is a reoccuring problem) got worse once I started LOD/calcium. It became hot, red, swolen, painful and hard to bend.

This thumb situation coinsided with achy, flu-like symptoms that tended to come and go in a cycle.

[Rachel--24]

How's everyone else doing?

Patti....I'm eating a TON of chocolate!

Ok....so I guess you were probably asking about the LOD.

Most of the foods bother me but I'm not sure its all oxalate related because I can eat certain things but they have to be "just right". For example I cannot normally eat chocolate without having problems....but found this one brand of chips that I can eat plenty of.

Its kind of like what happened with me and that one brand of ice cream.

I cant eat Enjoy Life chocolate chips or Tropical Source or any of the other chocolates I've tried. I found these organic ones...gluten-free/CF but not as far as CC goes. Anyways...I've eaten enough of them to know for sure they arent causing oxalate problems.

I think its mostly the stuff that is high oxalate as well as molds that cause me the most problems.

I am getting some symptoms from the chocolate though...I never have problems with sleep until I started eating the chocolate. So now I'm pretty hyper everyday and waking up at night feeling wide awake and sometimes feeling some heart palps.

Me thinks its caffeine.

I'm *highly* sensitive to caffeine since I got sick and lets just say I havent exactly been conservative with these chocolate chips.

[jerseyangel]

Patti....I'm eating a TON of chocolate!

Me thinks its caffeine.

Me thinks you are correct on that Lots of chocolate is bound to add up to a buzz.

It's funny--I also have to stick to specific brands and types of foods. I think it's because of CC, though.

I'm thinking that maybe since you have such a severe problem with the molds and the very high oxalates that the foods with a lesser amount don't register (yet)?

A bit like how gluten made me unaware of all my other sensitivites until it was removed and I healed somewhat. I don't know--I was just thinking (frightening )

[jerseyangel]

Judy and everyone,

I came across this bit of info about calcium carbonate and oxalates. It's not much, but it reinforces my opinion that the carbonate binds with the oxalates as well as the citrate.

The carbonate just works so well for me--as well as moving the oxalates out, it prevents D (since I'm prone to it). I know Judy's in that same boat.

Open Original Shared Link

[AndreaB]

The toe pain seems to be a common thread among a lot of us. Mine got better after going gluten-free, but my thumb joint (which is a reoccuring problem) got worse once I started LOD/calcium. It became hot, red, swolen, painful and hard to bend.

T has complained a couple times about her thumb being hot. She still sucks her thumb though, especially at night. I'll have to keep this in mind among the other things she's dealing with, if it gets to be more troublesome.

I'm *highly* sensitive to caffeine since I got sick and lets just say I havent exactly been conservative with these chocolate chips.

Are you conservative with anything you eat?

[jerseyangel]

T has complained a couple times about her thumb being hot.

Interesting....yea, I'd definately keep an eye on that. I wonder if it has to do with her detoxing--or has she had it all along?

[AndreaB]

Interesting....yea, I'd definately keep an eye on that. I wonder if it has to do with her detoxing--or has she had it all along?

Nope, it's been recent. I'm hoping it's detoxing as well. We've been hitting that pretty hard.

[bluejeangirl]

I came across this bit of info about calcium carbonate and oxalates. It's not much, but it reinforces my opinion that the carbonate binds with the oxalates as well as the citrate

.

This is nice to know since I still haven't changed my calcium. I wanted to wait until I was done with what I'm taking. Its made up of calcium lactate and carbonate.

Anyway, I went from reducing my carbs to eating alot of them. I broke out my rice flours and started baking away. I mixed tapioca flour in there too because I don't that has oxalates in it, gosh that flour is void of everything but I used it for texture more than anything. I think I needed a seritonin boost. Slept pretty good ever since. Oh I made corn bread too. For some reason I just craved the taste some sort of grain thing that I could spread butter on.

So I was hitting the med. oxalates more than I should but I haven't went over to the highs yet. I know the high ones bother me without even wondering about that. Although those chocolate chips Rachel's talking about sounds pretty good. Did anyone watch Oprah yesterday? Jessica Seinfeld makes puree's out of all her veggies and then hids them in foods like maybe spinach in brownies in order for her kids to eat them. Hows that for a high ox food. Spinach brownies. I can feel the crystals forming.

I've been feeling just O.K. Pain still in knees and elbows and I'm pretty slow in the mornings. I got real gassy over the weekend not colon gas but right in my stomach and pushing up kind. I don't know what that was about other then the night before we went out to eat at a mexican resturant and I could of been c.c.'d. I'm realizing now I had a couple scoops of refried beans. That could of been it....just think that little amount.

Gail

[jerseyangel]

Gail,

I had that same stomach gas for most of last week. I don't believe that I was CC or ate anything I was intolerant to. (I was CC'd over this past weekend, but this gas feeling was last week)

It bordered on nausea, but I had a sense that it was gas and that if it would just move, I'd feel better. Since it was a different thing than I usually get--and it happened after the achiness began to subside, I think it may have been more dumping of oxalates. Hard to be sure, though.

I didn't think too much of it at the time, but now that I see that you had something similar, maybe it is connected....

[jerseyangel]

Nope, it's been recent. I'm hoping it's detoxing as well. We've been hitting that pretty hard.

Then I'll bet it is detoxing--

[Flor]

Just FYI you guys, I was googling around about biotin deficiency because I was curious what the causes and symptoms were, now that I'm taking the supplement.

Here's a decent link, but there are longer articles out there as well in the med journals:

Open Original Shared Link

A couple of interesting things:

1. They don't know a lot about biotin compared with other vitamins

2. It is manufactured by the intestinal flora (unless of course yours happens to be messed up)

3. Antibiotics are one major cause of biotin deficiency

4. Deficiency symptoms include FUNGAL infections (which they say often clear up independently after the deficiency has been addressed; depression; skin problems; thinning hair; and various kinds of muscle and nerve pain

Hmmmm.......

[Judyin Philly]

GREAT INFO FOLKS........THANKS

JUST HAD TO POST THIS

Tuesday, October 09, 2007

Gluten-Free Pantry Says They're Nut-Free

Now this is some great news for those of us with nut-allergies and who are gluten-free. The dry mix products of Gluten-Free Pantry [NOT GUTINO] are peanut and tree-nut free! Really!

At the last food fair I attended I met the head of marketing for Glutino, Eric who

[Rachel--24]

4. Deficiency symptoms include FUNGAL infections (which they say often clear up independently after the deficiency has been addressed; depression; skin problems; thinning hair; and various kinds of muscle and nerve pain

Hmmmm.......

Personally, I think it all comes down to the fungus.....and not really the other way around. I could be wrong but thats what makes sense to me.

Things are going wrong in the body to make someone become susceptible to fungal issues. I dont think its as simple as a vitamin deficiency...but that doesnt mean that supplementaion wont help the body deal with the infections.

Also fungal infections themselves are known to cause or contribute to *many* deficiencies in the body.

The body is very complex and these issues become very intertwined. I've never seen a simple solution to these problems but definately there are ways to make big improvements in how we feel day to day.

I know I posted about alot of stuff related to the fungal issues. I lost track of what I posted in this particular thread though.

There was some info directly related to yeast and biotin....I think if I posted it anywhere it would probably be in this thread....maybe a few pages ago.

Anyways, when I came across that info. I started taking high potency biotin daily (5 mg's).....to see what kind of affect it would have. I will have to look at my previous posts to see how many days I've been on it.

I think I can report significant improvement but I'm not 100% positive that I can link it the biotin....as I'm doing so many other things. I do *feel* that the biotin has helped.

Even if the biotin is helping I dont feel in any way that it is a "cure" for my fungal issues. However, I will gladly take anything that is helping the situation. The less fungus....the less stress on my immune system and excretory organs. So...I'LL TAKE IT!!

I dont know if this is related to the biotin but (and some of you will know how significant this is)....today is the 2nd day that I have eaten *regular* food with my coworkers and had absolutely NO reactions.

My boss makes a special salsa to celebrate certain accomplishments at work. Everyone LOVES her salsa...so its always a big treat for everyone but me (who has never had any).

She doesnt usually want me eating any of the food or treats they have but yesterday she wanted me to try just ONE bite...so I could at least see what it tastes like.

Usually I would react immediately to something like this...all kinds of non-organic ingredients (loaded with sulfur foods)...spices, avocados, etc. Pretty much every ingredient I would normally react to seperately....let alone all together...and tortilla chips are totally off limits.

Anyway...I didnt react to the first chip...or the 5th....or the 10th...and then there was just no stopping me.

Well...ok my boss got mad cuz she said only ONE chip...so I did stop...eventually.

Nothing ever happened to me! The *only* thing to happen was that my ears turned bright red cuz the salsa was fiery hot (habanero peppers). I'm pretty sure that would have happened to me even when I was healthy.

So today I told her I never got any symptoms AT ALL...and to celebrate she made more salsa (but much more mild and my ears were fine).

So I sat there with everyone else...like a normal person....and ate a ton of chips and salsa.

Regular Mission tortilla chips with salsa....can you believe it??!!

I felt really normal because for the first time I was indulging without feeling any of the weird symptoms.

Everyone was pretty amazed by the whole thing....I think someone even took a picture of me eating.

I heard one girl say really softly..."Woah....shes eating...that is sooooo cool."

I looked over at her and she just had this look of awe on her face. Thats when I realized how COOL it really was.

Heck....I have no idea if it will last....or if it was just some kind of fluke....but it SURE was FUN.

[Rachel--24]

Are you conservative with anything you eat?

Ummmm...good point Andrea.

[Judyin Philly]

OMG RACHEL...........THIS IS THE BEST NEWS FROM YOU IN SO LONG.

I'M JUST THRILLED FOR YOU

YOU MUST BE 'SO OVER THE MOON' WHAT EVER THE HELL THAT MEANS..........

1. I think I can report significant improvement but I'm not 100% positive that I can link it the biotin....as I'm doing so many other things. I do *feel* that the biotin has helped.

2. Even if the biotin is helping I dont feel in any way that it is a "cure" for my fungal issues. However, I will gladly take anything that is helping the situation. The less fungus....the less stress on my immune system and excretory organs. So...I'LL TAKE IT!!

3. I dont know if this is related to the biotin but (and some of you will know how significant this is)....today is the 2nd day that I have eaten *regular* food with my coworkers and had absolutely NO reactions.

4. So I sat there with everyone else...like a normal person....and ate a ton of chips and salsa.

5. I felt really normal because for the first time I was indulging without feeling any of the weird symptoms. Everyone was pretty amazed by the whole thing....I think someone even took a picture of me eating.

Heck....I have no idea if it will last....or if it was just some kind of fluke....but it SURE was FUN.

LET'S HEAR IT FOR RACHEL EATING AND HAVING FUN

LOVE YOU ALL

JUDY YES IT'S ALMOST 4:00 AM

[jerseyangel]

So I sat there with everyone else...like a normal person....

That pretty much says it all. I've been having more and more moments like that--not as much related to foods as just being able to participate in things that others would take for granted.

That's so great, Rachel--and I so hope it wasn't just a fluke

YES IT'S ALMOST 4:00 AM

What the heck were you doing up at 4AM?

As time is going on with my LOD trial, I take back what I said previously about the nightshades being more of a problem for me.

The initial achyness and the other symptoms I've been having, I think I mistook for nightshade reactions. I believe at this point that they were/are oxalate-related.

I've tried adding potato and tomato (sauce) in since the reacton cycle (dumping) has slowed down and have been fine with them. While I still don't think I want to over do on them like I had been doing, I will use tham on a rotating basis for some more variety.

I guess I'm still a work in progress