Odd (oppositional Defiance Disorder)

[Fiddle-Faddle]

I've noticed a couple of posts on this issue, and thought I'd throw the question out there in case any of you have come up with research, or links, or if you just have your own observations to share!

Thanks!

[dreamindarlin]

Well my son was diagnosed about 2 years ago. I'm not sure if it is related to Celiac's or not. We are still unsure if our son even has Celiac's. But I'm intrested to see what others have to say.....

[momofboys05]

I've noticed a couple of posts on this issue, and thought I'd throw the question out there in case any of you have come up with research, or links, or if you just have your own observations to share!

Thanks!

What is oppositional defiance disorder? Where can i get info on it? My son is going in for a biospy on thursday to check for celiac disease.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

What is oppositional defiance disorder? Where can i get info on it? My son is going in for a biospy on thursday to check for celiac disease.

Oppositional Defiance Disorder seems to be an official diagnosis of a neuro/mental condition that results in an abnormal state of constant defiance and hostility.

I do think that doctors, especially psychiatrists, are awfully quick to paste labels that result in medication--and psych medications rarely address the cause of the symptoms; instead they mask the symptoms, so the cause is still there.

So I think it is perfectly possible that most diagnosed cases of oppositional defiance have their root causes in environment and food intolerances. And I bet a study on whether these children were breastfed or formula-fed would be fascinating, especially in the light of recent information about tainted milk from China--as melamine causes neuro problems.

In fact, I knew a little boy who was diagnosed with depression AND ODD; he had practically NO physical exercise or outside time whatsoever. He spent every afternoon playing Gameboy. When I spoke with his mother and suggested exercise and fresh air (I'm SO old-fashioned ), she said, "Oh, but we have him signed up for golf lessons once a week!"

And his father is a doctor.

Anyway, this is from the Mayo Clinic:

*****************************

Oppositional Defiance Disorder

Symptoms

It may be tough at times to recognize the difference between a strong-willed or emotional child and one with oppositional defiant disorder. Certainly there's a range between the normal independence-seeking behavior of children and oppositional defiant disorder. It's normal to exhibit oppositional behaviors at certain stages of a child's development.

However, your child's issue may be oppositional defiant disorder if your child's oppositional behaviors:

* Are persistent

* Have lasted at least six months

* Are clearly disruptive to the family and home or school environment

The following are behaviors associated with ODD:

* Negativity

* Defiance

* Disobedience

* Hostility directed toward authority figures

These behaviors might cause your child to regularly and consistently show these symptoms:

* Frequent temper tantrums

* Argumentativeness with adults

* Refusal to comply with adult requests or rules

* Deliberate annoyance of other people

* Blaming others for mistakes or misbehavior

* Acting touchy and easily annoyed

* Anger and resentment

* Spiteful or vindictive behavior

* Aggressiveness toward peers

* Difficulty maintaining friendships

* Academic problems

Related mental health issues

Oppositional defiant disorder often occurs along with other behavioral or mental health problems such as attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), anxiety or depression. The symptoms of ODD may be difficult to distinguish from those of other behavioral or mental health problems.

It's important to diagnose and treat any co-occurring illnesses because they can create or worsen irritability and defiance if left untreated. Additionally, it's important to identify and treat any related substance abuse and dependence. Substance abuse and dependence in children or adolescents is often associated with irritability and changes in the child or adolescent's usual personality.

Causes

There's no clear cause underpinning oppositional defiant disorder. (2) Contributing causes may include:

* The child's inherent temperament

* The family's response to the child's style

* A genetic component that when coupled with certain environmental conditions

[Fiddle-Faddle]

I just wanted to add that many people on this board have posted about their children's behavior, describing behavior that sounds just like the description above (but with no diagnosis or label attached to it), and they have reported that the problems miraculously disappeared on the gluten-free diet.

This is anecdotal evidence,not "scientific research." But I consider anecdotal evidence to have a lot of weight when there are no products (i.e., DRUGS) being studied or pushed, as most drug studies are funded by the pharmaceutical industry, who have everything ($$) to gain from reporting that their drug works.

I read in Discover magazine that it is common practice to have patients in a study who request to stop taking their drug because of severe adverse side effects--and these patients are reported on the study as non-compliant. Their adverse side effects are never listed, because they didn't complete the study.

The same article reported that the makers of Lipitor reported as successful the outcome of patients who DIED during the study, because their cholesterol was lowered to acceptable levels.

So I am VERY wary of any drug these days, and doubly wary of psych drugs for children. Remember, there are NO long-term studies on pediatric use of psych drugs--and, if the only studies are funded by the companies who make them, even the short-term studies might be questionable.

[RiceGuy]

I just wanted to add that many people on this board have posted about their children's behavior, describing behavior that sounds just like the description above (but with no diagnosis or label attached to it), and they have reported that the problems miraculously disappeared on the gluten-free diet.

This is anecdotal evidence,not "scientific research." But I consider anecdotal evidence to have a lot of weight when there are no products (i.e., DRUGS) being studied or pushed, as most drug studies are funded by the pharmaceutical industry, who have everything ($$) to gain from reporting that their drug works.

I read in Discover magazine that it is common practice to have patients in a study who request to stop taking their drug because of severe adverse side effects--and these patients are reported on the study as non-compliant. Their adverse side effects are never listed, because they didn't complete the study.

The same article reported that the makers of Lipitor reported as successful the outcome of patients who DIED during the study, because their cholesterol was lowered to acceptable levels.

So I am VERY wary of any drug these days, and doubly wary of psych drugs for children. Remember, there are NO long-term studies on pediatric use of psych drugs--and, if the only studies are funded by the companies who make them, even the short-term studies might be questionable.

I whole-heartily agree. But if we speak too loudly, "they" might say we're ODD too.

Besides gluten, there are things like artificial sweeteners, food dyes, MSG, pesticides, GMO crops...the list seems to get longer every time I look at it. But these are very real factors which should also be checked out. And of course, other food intolerances need to e considered as well, such as dairy, soy, corn, eggs, nuts, peanuts, and a few others I'm probably not thinking of ATM.

Oh, and do consider also the possibility of a candida overgrowth. I can speak from experience, that candida most certainly can cause all sorts of strange behavioral problems.

[nikki-uk]

Oppositional Defiance Disorder

Symptoms

It may be tough at times to recognize the difference between a strong-willed or emotional child and one with oppositional defiant disorder. Certainly there's a range between the normal independence-seeking behavior of children and oppositional defiant disorder. It's normal to exhibit oppositional behaviors at certain stages of a child's development.

However, your child's issue may be oppositional defiant disorder if your child's oppositional behaviors:

* Are persistent

* Have lasted at least six months

* Are clearly disruptive to the family and home or school environment

The following are behaviors associated with ODD:

* Negativity

* Defiance

* Disobedience

* Hostility directed toward authority figures

These behaviors might cause your child to regularly and consistently show these symptoms:

* Frequent temper tantrums

* Argumentativeness with adults

* Refusal to comply with adult requests or rules

* Deliberate annoyance of other people

* Blaming others for mistakes or misbehavior

* Acting touchy and easily annoyed

* Anger and resentment

* Spiteful or vindictive behavior

* Aggressiveness toward peers

* Difficulty maintaining friendships

* Academic problems

WOW!

I've got one of those!!....didn't know there was a name for it!!

[Lizz7711]

Besides gluten, there are things like artificial sweeteners, food dyes, MSG, pesticides, GMO crops...the list seems to get longer every time I look at it. But these are very real factors which should also be checked out. And of course, other food intolerances need to e considered as well, such as dairy, soy, corn, eggs, nuts, peanuts, and a few others I'm probably not thinking of ATM.

Oh, and do consider also the possibility of a candida overgrowth. I can speak from experience, that candida most certainly can cause all sorts of strange behavioral problems.

I can say from my experience with my 9 year old daughter that absolutely ODD is related (or can be ) to celiac/gluten intolerance.

A year ago my daughter's behavior at home was so bad, rages, opposition, destructive tendencies, perseveration etc, that I started looking up mental conditions online, found ODD< and said, wow that is my daughter. I was thinking I was going to have to find a shrink. But then I found a website called feingold dot org and they had information that many food additives can cause such behavior...so I put her on a no food dyes, no MSG diet...and her behavior improved a bit. About a month later I went to a seminar on celiac disease and got her tested by enterolab after talking to the presenter. She was positive for gluten/dairy/soy/egg sensitivity. I got tested, and I was positive too. I also had a blood test which was positive. Anyway, we went on the Gluten-free Casein-free diet, and after a couple months she was a new girl.

It's now been 9 months, and I can always tell when she's had either gluten or food dyes because within an hour her behavior will revert right back to the crazy days...only difference is it won't last quite as long...and since I know what's going on, I don't usually get angry but rather just focus on getting her brain back by giving her vitamins/magnesium etc. Gluten causes the most significant behavioral issues with her. The others cause problems because with a leaky gut, all kinds of molecules get into the blood stream and cross the blood brain barrier, causing behavior issues. For myself, I also get quite irritable with gluten, and have multiple chemical sensitivity.

I do think she also has candida overgrowth and potentially high mercury load from me (it passes to the fetus) which may be underlying the gluten issue.

I recommend anyone with kids with ADD, ADHD, OCD, ODD, depression etc. to try the gluten-free diet, but also they have to avoid the food dyes, additives, MSG, and aspartame or they will not see as much improvement. Alot of people go gluten-free, but still eat crappy food and drink diet sodas etc. All chewing gum has aspartame these days, and MSG is hidden everywhere...one food that is high in natural glutamate that affects my daughter alot is parmesan cheese..also nutritional yeast, which alot of vegans use. With food dyes, yellow#5,6 and red#40 seem the worst, but we avoid all of them and I buy her organic gummy worms from whole foods and let her have chocolate more often instead of candy.

hope this helps!

Liz

[Lizz7711]

And I bet a study on whether these children were breastfed or formula-fed would be fascinating, especially in the light of recent information about tainted milk from China--as melamine causes neuro problems.

In fact, I knew a little boy who was diagnosed with depression AND ODD; he had practically NO physical exercise or outside time whatsoever.

My daughter had to have half formula right from the get-go because I had problems with my milk...after 5 months she wasn't breast feeding at all. BUT, she had digestive issues from the moment of birth (constipation). I think her intestines probably got damaged in utero becuase I had to take an anti nausea medication for 7 months of the pregnancy just to be able to function, and it caused me constipation, so it probably did to her as well...leading to leaky gut and consequent food sensitivities...combined with mercury load and my celiac disease (as yet undiagnosed), and then vaccines on top of that...and there you go! What hope do kids have, LOL.

By the way, my daughter is VERY active, runs around like crazy so exercise or lack of is not a factor in her case.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Fascinating, Liz--I was on Phenergan for my second 2 pregnancies because complications from the hyperemesis almost caused me to lose my first child. However, I begged the doctor to let me take as little as possible, and ended up taking about 1/4 of a pill once a day. Any more than that, and I was unconscious and couldn't function!

In retrospect, I am convinced that gluten was the source of my hyperemesis, as I kept trying to eat those stupid crackers (not knowing I had an intolerance to gluten).

With the first baby, I also had pre-eclampsia, and they gave me magnesium sulfate to prevent seizures--and didn't tell me it inhibits milk production. So I pumped every 3 hours for 5 days and nights before I got a drop of colostrum, which meant that #1 son had formula for those 5 days. After the colostrum came in, though, I threw away the formula; I had to nurse him every hour and a half for 8 months, though. Then he dropped back to every 2-3 hours.

And all my kids had reactions to vaccines. It wasn't until #3 that we knew enough to turn down some vaccines, and delay others. Live and learn....

[April in KC]

My oldest son was very rage-filled prior to going gluten-free. He would rage and then feel awful afterwards. We're talking about a 3-1/2 year old...a 4-1/2 year old. He made threats. When he was sad afterwards, he was deeply depressed. He talked about "wanting to go back into God's tummy" at age 3. It practically broke our hearts. We prayed a lot, and we sought professional help. One of the answers to prayer was getting him diagnosed with Celiac.

He's not the same kid now.

I wish there a way to get the message out to psychiatrists and parents... look for Celiac Disease in these kids. Maybe it isn't all of them, but what a blessing for some who can be helped.

[DanaDee]

I don't know that it's related to Celiac, that the two dieseses are co-morbid of each other, but I can see where an undiaged kid may get the diag of ODD if the child were on gluten and reacting to it.

My daughter, now 3, she she gets gluten in her system, it's like a switch get flipped on and she flips out. She goes from the sweetest kid who hums when she colors, and gives randon hugs and kisses, to full out out of control. I am sitting here with 3 very bad bite marks from an accidental glutening over the weekend. ( my own fault, I am new to the diet, I let something get by me) She bite me 3 times, and scratched my face. Once the gluten worked it's way out of her system ( she get's a rash and diareaha as well), she was back to sweet mary sunshine, the perfect little 3 year old princess.

I can see 100% how ODD diag could happen.