Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)

[fig girl]

Hi Fig Girl,

Wonderful - yes, these small discoveries of progress are so encouraging.

I tried the SCD yoghurt only once, like two months ago. Loved it, but got the worst brainfog in a long time. So I haven't ventured into it again. Same when I have tried to taste any of the SCD legal cheeses. Think dairy is often the culprit for non-gluten brainfogs. I therefore stay away from dairy altogether. (Hope that it'll change one day as I particularly miss the cheeses!). Maybe if you do the yoghurt from cocnut milk, it won't give you brainfog.

I think I need to increase my intake of probiotics, and will do so when I get back to the US in a month and can order the SCD legal ones. Are you taking any probiotic capsules, or relying solely on probiotic foods?

Jan

Hi Jan,

I think i need to increase my intake of probiotics also. I'm taking probiotic capsules (pure encapsulations lactobacillus acidophilus) and i take one in the morning about 30 min. before breakfast and one before bed. I think i'm getting more gas pain and bloating though since stopping the yogurt because i used to eat some yogurt at every meal. I haven't made any probiotic foods yet but plan to use carrots first....hopefully this weekend. Maybe i need to take another probiotic capsule before lunch. I want to try the yogurt w/coconut milk but i tried coconut flour a while back and it didn't agree. Maybe i'll try coconut oil first to test because Ali had mentioned that should be easiest to digest. I love coconut so it'd be great if i can eat it in the future. I miss cheese too .

Michelle

[Ms Jan]

Yesterday afternoon, I went to the hospital for an ultrasound scan. Had to fast before going, and at some point I realized how good I was feeling. No food or fluids, not even water, for four hours and I was feeling better than in a long time, and most amazingly, my mind was crystal clear and calm. WOW, made me wish I'd never have to eat again Really, seriously, I haven't felt so good in years. Well, eventually I felt faint and had to eat and drink something last night, and almost immediately - even though I had only apple sauce, cucumber and some almonds as well as water - my body and brains started feeling stressed again. And these are my safest foods !! Wish I could just stop eating altogether

Well, I try to look at it positively: there must be some way to taking advantage of this unexpected discovery of my system ... Has anyone experienced the same thing?

Michelle,

Coconut oil is great if you can digest it. I ate a lot of it in the beginning of the diet, now I feel as if my oil deposits have been refuelled, so I just cook in it occasionally.

[pele]

Rhoger1

You asked about legal canned foods on the SCD. I don't think a list exists. Elaine mentions in her book which she thought were okay and which were not, but unfortunately her decisions were based on information and brands available 30-40 years ago.

She says in the book Breaking the Vicious Cycle:

canned fish in oil or water--legal

all canned or jarred vegetables are illegal, but somewhere else it says home canned are okay if canned without sugar or starch.

canned or jarred fruits which state "packed in own juice" are allowed, others are not.

canned tomato juice allowed. V-8 and tomato juice mixes not allowed. Tomato sauce, paste, puree not allowed.

canned pineapple or grape juice without added sugar allowed. Canned apple juice not allowed.. Boxed juice not allowed.

Elaine, of course, is not longer alive to comment, but I have seen it stated that in order for a product that is canned to be considered SCD legal, the company that makes it must be willing to send out a letter (not an email) stating the product conatins no illegal ingredients.

I hope this helps.

[mftnchn]

Jan, I can sympathize. At times I do feel better when not eating and not taking any meds or supplements. Not always though. From your list, the almonds would be the hardest to digest. After my recent experience testing almonds and having a major reaction, I'm sensitive to that information

When my children were small, we lived in an area where viral stomach infections were common. Both my kids had it once and ended up on IV's. The pediatrician explained that the inflammation was so high that it was best to give the stomach and intestines a complete rest, so nothing by mouth. I can't remember how long, at least a full day. So this might explain some of what you experience.

My doctor also suggested juicing as a way to "fast." I got the impression to do it once a week or two, though I don't think he distinctly said. I don't have a juicer so having tried that, but I'd like to. If you can get a lot of the benefits of the food without the fiber or any need for the body to break down the food, it seems like it would be a "rest" for the system.

BTW, I am quite sure that my recent three + months of symptoms are due to the change in formulation of my thyroid medication. I'm very anxious to get to the USA so I can switch. I can't function taking this med. What I don't know yet is if the worsening of my digestion and increased intolerance for foods is due to this as well. Its a good lesson again for celiacs--we can't assume something that has been okay in the past hasn't changed, and should periodically check.

So I second what Pele said, foods may change over time, so the foods Elaine researched may not be same as they are now. So it is good to do our own research, and share current info with one another.

[mysecretcurse]

What do you guys think about following this diet using kimchi for probiotics vs making the yogurt? Kimchi is easy to buy pre-made in most stores, is gluten free, and might be a good alternative for those who either cant stomach dairy or just don't have time or a place to make the yogurt like me. I see some of you were talking about fermented cabbage on here and that is basically all kimchi is. It definitely has good probiotics, it helped me a lot in getting my gut back in shape after I came down with dystentary.

P.S. For some reason probiotic supplements constipate me badly. I have no idea why. I've tried multiple brands.. even gluten free ones. I have a hard time with a lot of supplements, gluten free or not. For some reason the only supplement I seem to be able to stomach very well is flax seed oil.

[mftnchn]

Open Original Shared Link

This is Elaine's post about kimchi, hopefully this will help you.

I do the cabbage juice, as it is much easier on my system to not have all the fiber. I have C typically, so the prevailing wisdom would be that I need more fiber. But I have found the opposite to be true.

Sounds like there could be a common "inert" ingredient in the various supplements that upsets you. Do you have the same problem with many foods?

[Ms Jan]

Sherry,

Thanks. Yes, I think it might be a good idea to do brief fasts to let my esophagus and intestines rest. So far I did the opposite, constantly munching on something in order not to have the large fluctuations in my blood sugar that I get when having actual meals just three times a day. But I must try to find a way of 'fasting' perhaps half days without getting the energy fluctuations. Am convinced now that it would be good for my guts.

Mysecretcurse,

I normally never have C, but certain probiotics do exactly that to me. Have no idea why, but it feels as if all those good bacteria ingest or 'drive out' the fluids from the intestines. I've found that powdered and rather simple probiotics with not too many bacteria strains work best for me (threelac fx, but I don't thinkg it's SCD legal) - without the added effect of C ... But everyone is different, so I don't know if this could work for you.

[AliB]

I found that when I was doing the odd day here and there on just fruit and veggie smoothies my digestion seemed to be much happier. I do add quite a lot of water to them so that would help too but the easier a food is to digest the more comfortable I am.

I have got out of the habit of having the smoothies and it is one I really ought to get back into.

I picked up a book in a charity shop (thrift shop) the other day called 'Detox Yourself' by Jane Scrivener and have just finished reading through that. She suggests things like finishing your shower or bath with a minute of cold water to stimulate the lymph system, skin brushing, self-massage, breathing techniques, magnesium baths (epsom salts) and aromatherapy and half an hour of exercise every day to help the body detoxify.

The food is also similar to the SCD - her comment is 'if it doesn't look like it was just picked, dug up or caught then don't eat it - it's not detox!'. Her list is just based around fruit, veg, nuts, some pulses, seeds, sheep or goats milk and cheese, fish, oils and a few rice cakes.

So detoxing is what I am focusing on at the moment. The 'sewage' tongue, swelling lymph glands, and other things all suggest to me that I am very toxic and for some reason my body just can't dispose of them very well so anything I can do to help the situation has to be of benefit.

Definitely fish is one protein I can cope with relatively well - although my digestion is now coping better with meat and poultry, fish is the easiest so there may be sense in some of her suggestions.

[fig girl]

I've cut way back on dairy since starting to use the fermented cabbage juice for probiotic food.

Unfortunately I still have enough various symptoms from various causes that it is truly hard to discern a mild reaction from something. I haven't noticed improvement cutting back dairy or problems adding it back in except once or twice mild bloating after the yogurt. But even that is suspect because I bloated on safe foods earlier that day too. So for now I'll keep using small amounts. I was 10 months totally DF when I first went gluten-free, so its not like I haven't tried it.

By the way everyone, the cabbage juice is easier to make than the yogurt. No temps to monitor. Just wash the cabbage, tear up into the blender add the water and blend, add a little of your previous batch of juice, and let it sit. 24 hours later, strain it, throw away the cabbage and make your new batch.

Hi Sherry,

How much cabbage do you use and is your water at room temperature? Also, how much probiotic did you use - 1/th tsp for 1 quart jar? I followed the recipe on pecanbread last night and shredded up some carrots and filled up a quart mason jar about 3/4 full with them and dissolved about an 1/8th of a tsp of GI prohealth probiotic powder that i use for my yogurt into about a cup of water (the water wasn't room temp. - it came out of my refrigerator which is not real cold but cool and it's filtered). I didn't think about it needing to maybe be room temp. until after i'd made it. I then poured the 1 cup of water w/probiotic into the jar and then filled it with more filtered water to the top. It says to let it sit for 2-3 days and then strain the juice off and drink and then add more water. It says i can do that for up to 2 wks. I hope it's correct! Thanks!

Michelle

[fig girl]

Hi Sherry,

How much cabbage do you use and is your water at room temperature? Also, how much probiotic did you use - 1/8th tsp for 1 quart jar? I followed the recipe on pecanbread last night and shredded up some carrots and filled up a quart mason jar about 3/4 full with them and dissolved about an 1/8th of a tsp of GI prohealth probiotic powder that i use for my yogurt into about a cup of water (the water wasn't room temp. - it came out of my refrigerator which is not real cold but cool and it's filtered). I didn't think about it needing to maybe be room temp. until after i'd made it. I then poured the 1 cup of water w/probiotic into the jar and then filled it with more filtered water to the top. It says to let it sit for 2-3 days and then strain the juice off and drink and then add more water. It says i can do that for up to 2 wks. I hope it's correct! Thanks!

Michelle

I corrected the 1/8th tsp of probiotic above, sorry about that!

[fig girl]

I've been thinking that my system needs a break also. I haven't felt real well this week and my stomach has been sore when i wake up most days and i've had some gas pain throughout the day (possibly from stopping the yogurt 3 times a day). I took a probiotic capsule 3 times yesterday but my stomach felt the same this morning.

I agree with you Jan, i feel like i need to take a day or 1/2 a day and just drink water. I was going to maybe try it today or at least just juice but i got really hungry. I have a juicer so maybe tomorrow i'll try just juicing. Next weekend would be a good time to try it for Sat. and then Sun. i'll be only on clear liquids for my colonoscopy and endoscopy on Monday. I've read it's easier on you if you can do the liquid diet for 2 days before the procedure instead of 1 day before. I don't know that i'll be able to go that long though without eating solid food. I get a headache if i don't eat but maybe if i juice enough and make enough veggie smoothies i'll be ok.

Ali - i think i'll make some of the veggie smoothies that you've mentioned - maybe i'll try a banana, some avocado, romaine lettuce and water.

[mysecretcurse]

I liked what she had to say about kimchi, thanks for the link! I just went out and bought two jars. Yummm!

And yeah, I have problems with certain foods, and I don't know why. WIth some of the things, I assume it's just other intolerances, for example aside from gluten, I can't have chickpeas. Don't know why. I don't do well with dairy either but I CAN eat dairy once in awhile without totally dying, I just wont feel too hot for a bit, but with chickpeas, nope, it's just as nasty a reaction as with gluten (sick for weeks, skin breakouts, etc). I also seem to have some sort of reaction to psyllium husks (the 100% certified gluten free kind).

One of you guys asked if I was still having problems and if that was why I was considering SCD.. and yes, it's so odd, because I seem to becoming MORE sensitive now than ever, to new things! I don't know if I always was sensitive to these things and just didn't notice it because it was buried under the hellish reaction from the gluten, and if now that I feel so much better I simply notice it more... or if I am developing new sensitivities all together. I KNOW dairy did not seem to cause me these problems last year. Same with the psyllium husks, I used to take them every day. I don't get it.

I think I am going to try doing just chicken, fruit, eggs, veggies and the kimchi for the next couple days.

[pele]

just didn't notice it because it was buried under the hellish reaction from the gluten, and if now that I feel so much better I simply notice it more...

I think you nailed it.

As far as kimchi--every recipe I have seen calls for sugar, so make sure you read the label. I make my own with honey. It's very easy.

There is also kombucha, a probiotic product that I like, but I have never seen an official SCD comment on it. It is fermented mushroom tea.

[mysecretcurse]

Ah yeah it does have some sugar I think. I'll still eat it because I'm not really sugar free or fully following the diet anyway but it's a bad suggestion for people strictly following the diet I guess. Sorry hehe. And yes, I really want to try kombucha too! I've heard really good things about it.

[YoloGx]

I just found this thread through looking up Ali (hi by the way!)--and am glad to see such a lively group. I have been eating sort of a cross between scd diet and paleo diet with my own modifications. I eat squash these days for carbohydrates--and avoid potatoes, yams etc. as well as all grains. I am allergic to all nuts (though sunflower seeds are completely OK) and am also allergic to eggs and so far do not tolerate cheese. I also avoid all fruit except lemons due to a candida or fungal response. I have the same itchy, flaky skin in my ears and nethers after eating tomatoes. I do occasionally have powdered carob which I sweeten with stevia. I can't have it more than once a week however without candida or fungal symptoms. I looked it up recently and discovered carob does have some kind of sugar in it--it is the biblical St. John's Bread. I am now reading about the scd diet in Gottschall's book and am waiting for my yogurt which should be ready tomorrow night. I wonder if/when my diet can broaden through the use of gradually expanding the use of fermented foods. Has that happened for anyone here? Historically I have been very sensitive to anything fermented except for plain yogurt.

Bea

[mftnchn]

My secretcurse,

I think what you describe is not an uncommon experience for celiacs. SCD has helped a lot of folks. I'm not seeing a particular theme in the sensitivities you mentioned, so am not sure what to suggest.

However, it could be useful to do a trial off all the sugars and starches, that's what could be throwing you off.

With your trial these couple of days, my suggestion would be to choose really soft and easy to digest veggies, and stick to ripe bananas if you can. Just in terms of food easy to digest for your initial trial.

[mftnchn]

Bea, welcome! Its nice to see you here.

Open Original Shared Link

I'm wondering if saccharomycesboulardii might be of particular help to you?

Sherry

[mftnchn]

Hi Sherry,

How much cabbage do you use and is your water at room temperature? Also, how much probiotic did you use - 1/th tsp for 1 quart jar? I followed the recipe on pecanbread last night and shredded up some carrots and filled up a quart mason jar about 3/4 full with them and dissolved about an 1/8th of a tsp of GI prohealth probiotic powder that i use for my yogurt into about a cup of water (the water wasn't room temp. - it came out of my refrigerator which is not real cold but cool and it's filtered). I didn't think about it needing to maybe be room temp. until after i'd made it. I then poured the 1 cup of water w/probiotic into the jar and then filled it with more filtered water to the top. It says to let it sit for 2-3 days and then strain the juice off and drink and then add more water. It says i can do that for up to 2 wks. I hope it's correct! Thanks!

Michelle

Michelle, I do 3 cups of cabbage and 1 3/4 C of water, blend it well, add 1/4 C of my last batch of juice. I put it in a quart jar at room temperature for 24 hours. Then I strain out the juice and discard the pulp. I do a fresh batch of cabbage every day. It fills my quart jar to 1-2 inches from the top. You are supposed to have at least an inch at the top.

The first time you have to let it set for 3 days. I did add acidophilus to the first batch, but I later realized my acidophilus is now no good (it won't make yogurt). The recipe says you don't have to add any starter, as cabbage naturally has acidophilus.

Bea, I have been increasingly sensitive (not sure why) but I am tolerating this quite well. No fiber is one reason, I think.

[pele]

Hi Bea

Welcome to the thread. I'm sorry you are not able to eat nuts or fruits. When I started the SCD 16 months ago I still had digestive symptoms from my gluten-eating days, despite over a year of gluten-free eating. I could eat some fruit and small amounts of nuts. Now I can eat larger quantities, and have gone overboard on the fruit eating a few times recently, especially blueberries. I think my digestive system reacted pretty much as a "normal" one would.

Eliminating processed foods seems to be a key here, along with eliminating the sugars and starches. It just takes time. It sounds like you are already well on the way.

[pele]

Ah yeah it does have some sugar I think. I'll still eat it because I'm not really sugar free or fully following the diet anyway but it's a bad suggestion for people strictly following the diet I guess. Sorry hehe. And yes, I really want to try kombucha too! I've heard really good things about it.

I agree with Sherry. You are here, you are thinking about it. Eliminate the rice and sugar. You might find that life is easier w/o the sugar addiction. And you might discover that rice is not the friend you think it is.

[lonewolf]

I just finished reading Breaking the Vicious Cycle and am getting geared up to start the SCD with my son. We're going on vacation for a week, so I'll be doing a bit more research and recipe gathering and then start when we get back next weekend. I've been experimenting with recipes so we aren't caught off guard. So far, so good.

I made a batch of cookies (ground pecans and almonds, honey, egg, cinnamon and baking soda) and they were devoured. I also made a pan of "blondies" with almond butter, pecan butter (homemade), honey, eggs and baking soda. Suprisingly, they tasted different. The cookies were a bit better, but everyone chowed on the blondies even while they were saying, "these need more sweetener". Even my family members who aren't gluten-free and won't be doing SCD liked them.

I know it will be several weeks or maybe months before we should eat things like cookies and blondies, but I thought if I tried a recipe and had success we would have something to look forward to once we dive in. I made some chicken soup to put in the freezer so we'll have something to eat on the first day without much trouble.

Once I get back I'd love to join in here and get some tips. At first I was dreading the thought of doing this, but now I'm excited and hopeful that it will help my son's ulcerative colitis. Looking forward to all the good info I know I'll get here!

[mftnchn]

Liz, that's just great. Hopefully what we've learned will be helpful to you and your son ( and all of you) will see some great progress.

[celiac-wife]

Hi AliB,

Have you tried eliminating soy also? My husband has intolerances to gluten and dairy and most of all to soy.

Take care,

Cindy

[AliB]

Hi Cindy - I think I do react to soy a bit - certainly I used to buy a chocolate soy milk drink from LIDL here in the UK which was pretty yummy but I quickly dropped that because I used to fill up very rapidly with mucous.

Because I tend to eat mostly natural foods there is very little in the way of soy that I am likely to have apart from an occasional square of very bitter choc which contains a small amount of soy lecithin.

I am not aware of getting any reaction to that, or the chocolate. I do feel as though the toxins are starting to abate a bit - I am trying to drink more water too as that is something I have never been very good at - I am sure my body has interpreted thirst as hunger over the years.

Plain water, especially when cold does tend to make me feel bloated and maybe that is why I have never been an avid water drinker too, but I am ok with herb teas. I try and drink at least one parsley, or parsley and nettle tea (made from the raw herbs) per day as that helps the body divest toxins through the urinary tract.

[AliB]

Hi Bea, good to have you 'on board' the thread.

If you have been following the thread over the last few pages you will see that one thing we have been discussing is the Liver's role in our health. Certainly I feel that the Liver, and its inability to deal with toxins plays a big part in our health.

It struck me the other day that although all of us who post on the thread come from very different walks of life, backgrounds, even health issues, our food intolerances often follow a very similar path.

We all obviously have the intolerance to gluten or we wouldn't be here, but many of us suffer with intolerances to other carbs and a few extraneous foods on the side. Some of us a slim or even skinny, others have weight problems, even obesity but we are all linked by the intolerances.

What is the key? I know Rachel used to bang on about mercury and I certainly feel that it may well be a contributor, but what else? We are all exposed, here in the West, to a multiplicity of toxins, many of which we have no control over.

Although ours has not been subjected to it many have had fluoride added to their drinking water. Every day thousands of gallons of detergents and chemicals are poured down drains to end up being recycled into the water. We are exposed to chemicals in our food, water and even our air. Maybe an odd one or two here and there the body would be able to cope with but collectively?

The Liver is the powerhouse of toxin conversion and disposal. Like many things, if it is continuously exposed to it all just maybe it gets to the point where it starts to struggle. Processes don't work so well.

I look at things like teenage acne and think - is that the body being unable to deal with all the rubbish that teenagers typically throw at it? The skin is the biggest organ of the body.

I have a friend who used to get Cystitis very often. Eventually she found that certain things were affecting her. She had to stop doing the beautiful china restoration work because she couldn't cope with the paints, glazes and glues. Not too long after that she developed Chronic Fatigue - so bad that she has spent the last five years in a living prison, bedridden, unable to communicate with anyone but her immediate family (it is fortuitous that she has no children as it would have been a nightmare for them), and then only in monosyllables, unable to watch TV, listen to music, read.......horrendous.

She is just starting to emerge from her prison. She can now speak with others for a short time, make little cards for friends, have a brief foray around the village on her mobility scooter. I, along with her husband and others have researched and investigated and struggled to find things that might help her.

I keep coming back to toxins. The Cystitis may well have been her body struggling to dispose of toxins. The reaction to the glazes and other things was almost certainly due to her liver being unable to deal with the chemicals and I suspect that in the end her body just had to virtually shut down whilst it tried to deal with it all.

I have never been into chemicals in a big way but I think that is because I am aware that my body doesn't cope with them very well. I rarely wear make-up, I just use soap and water and don't bother with moisturizers (coconut oil is great for that), and am just trying to reduce my toxic load as much as I can including the food.

It's weird. Why did I have a compunction to wind down the windows and inhale great lungfuls of gas fumes when my Dad went for a refill? I loved the smell! Kids seem to be very attracted to 'sniffing' chemicals. Yet what untold damage is it doing to them?