Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)

[mftnchn]

Cindy, soy not allowed on SCD so most of us here are avoiding that. I knew soy was a problem before starting SCD, too.

[pickles]

Hi all,

This is my first post but I've read the whole thread top to bottom. Thanks so much for sharing your insights. This is a great resource.

I am hoping someone may be able to recommend a doctor in Seattle. I've been to Bastyr, the Tahoma Clinic, IBS treatment center, Swedish and the Polyclinic. So far my medical care has been haphazard, disorganized or just ignorant about digestive issues. 3+ years in and no diagnosis. Some doctors were good, and likable as people etc. but didn't really have the time to figure out what was going on. I have followed all advice to letter with little luck and been met with confusion, skepticism, and frustration from these doctors. After zillions of tests (gallons of labs, Colonoscopy, MRI, Ultrasound) my credit card is smoldering wreckage. After 4 months on the SCD diet (no dairy/nuts/fruit other than berries are tolerated so far)I am still struggling with constipation(no D ever), poor energy/ memory/ concentration/ dizziness/ visual changes/ low weight (6'4" 150 lbs). Thankfully headaches, fibromyalgia, heart palpitations, joint pain, night sweats have improved. Cause for celebration! I'm still struggling though and I don't know what else I can do.

Most recently I went to a naturopathic digestive specialist who gave me stock advice, asked me if I'd heard of quinoa and after a couple of visits still hasn't incorporated the fact that the SCD diet is only thing aside from nutrient IVs that has improved any of my symptoms at all. Hasn't even considered it to be a clue. I've already prompted him to check into it. Nobody seems to have the time or inclination to get to the bottom of this or even make a formal diagnosis. They want me to get better their way. I need an expert/medical detective that is organized enough to remember who I am and give me a call back if, for example, their supplements give me a sunburn-like rash (unlike the Tahoma Clinic). Any ideas?

Sorry for the rant. Maybe some of you can relate? Thanks so much for reading this and for everyone's posts on this forum.

-P

ps.. I'm thinking about giving this place a try:

Open Original Shared Link

[pele]

Hi Pickles

I am VERY impressed that you've read the whole thread. I've read it, too but it took me a year and a half!

I don't know any doctors in Seattle, but I can identify with the quinoa scenerio. I went to a nurse practitioner who told me that I should be eating millet or buckwheat because there are nutrients in grains that are necessary for human health. Hmm, and how, then, did the human race survive for a couple million years without grain?

I assume that out of all those tests, someone has checked your endocrine system? Your symptoms sound like those of malfunctioning pituitary, thyroid and/or adrenals.

[mftnchn]

Hi Pickles, welcome. Wow! The WHOLE thread!! LOL

4 months on SCD is still a bit early in one sense. The first year can be still a bit rocky with flares and improvements kind of unstable, I'm told by people who have been on this for awhile for various GI problems.

My doctor is in Portland and is very good however, is only taking new pediatric (autistic) patients. I totally can relate to most of the doctors not being helpful.

Have you been tested for lyme disease through Igenex? The joint pain and night sweats, fibro, energy, memory, dizziness, concentration, visual changes all stand out to me. It also can cause GI problems. If not, or if the test was done by a different lab, there's a blog that has lots of info and patient cases that could be worth reading. www.lymemd.blogspot.com

In terms of remaining symptoms, what have you tried for constipation? My tendency is also that direction. I take oxy-mag, a form of magnesium. The other thing is cutting back on fiber as my system doesn't handle it--which is a principle of SCD of course. Berries are higher in fiber. I'm wondering if you have done the intro and very soft foods approach for your first 4 months?

[pickles]

Hi Pickles

I am VERY impressed that you've read the whole thread. I've read it, too but it took me a year and a half!

I don't know any doctors in Seattle, but I can identify with the quinoa scenerio. I went to a nurse practitioner who told me that I should be eating millet or buckwheat because there are nutrients in grains that are necessary for human health. Hmm, and how, then, did the human race survive for a couple million years without grain?

I assume that out of all those tests, someone has checked your endocrine system? Your symptoms sound like those of malfunctioning pituitary, thyroid and/or adrenals.

Hi Pele,

you might not be as impressed if you knew how much of it I remember. Ha.

Good thoughts... I checked out fine at the endocrinologist though. I'm contemplating the Heildleberg stomach acid test. I've taken Betaine HCL for perioods of time and I can't tell if it's doing anything or not. Thanks so much for the reply!

-P

[pickles]

Hi Pickles, welcome. Wow! The WHOLE thread!! LOL

4 months on SCD is still a bit early in one sense. The first year can be still a bit rocky with flares and improvements kind of unstable, I'm told by people who have been on this for awhile for various GI problems.

My doctor is in Portland and is very good however, is only taking new pediatric (autistic) patients. I totally can relate to most of the doctors not being helpful.

Have you been tested for lyme disease through Igenex? The joint pain and night sweats, fibro, energy, memory, dizziness, concentration, visual changes all stand out to me. It also can cause GI problems. If not, or if the test was done by a different lab, there's a blog that has lots of info and patient cases that could be worth reading. www.lymemd.blogspot.com

In terms of remaining symptoms, what have you tried for constipation? My tendency is also that direction. I take oxy-mag, a form of magnesium. The other thing is cutting back on fiber as my system doesn't handle it--which is a principle of SCD of course. Berries are higher in fiber. I'm wondering if you have done the intro and very soft foods approach for your first 4 months?

Hi mftnchn,

Nope on the lyme disease test, I will check into it though. I've taken magnesium stearate but didn't notice a difference.

One of the main obstacles for me has been that I didn't have any immediate food symptoms, no diarrhea, flare ups, alarm bells. Just feeling bad all the time. It's made the process feel like playing darts in the dark. Just guessing, doctors just guessing as well. That is starting to change as some of the symptoms have faded. Now if I eat apple sauce or some nut flour or eggs, I get a little something to go on. So I'm weeding those things out and trying them again occasionally. Cutting out the berries is a good idea. I don't get symptoms from them but they may be causing problems. It's confusing. Before starting the diet I wasn't constipated.

I might do the intro diet again as I'm sure I could have done a better job of it and the soft foods. I can't do eggs, goat milk, nuts, fruit, gelatin. I've been cutting out honey to see how that goes. I was making yogurt out of coconut milk but I stopped that because it started giving me symptoms as well. I'm being very strict and on a really minimal diet. It makes me wonder if I am on the right track sometimes. In Breaking the Vicious Cycle another kind of bacteria was mentioned that the SCD diet wouldn't help. I need to look that up and get tested.

Thanks for all the great suggestions!

-P

[mftnchn]

I know you are really restricted, but you might give Elaine's protocol for constipation a look. Its posted somewhere on www.pecanbread.com as I recall.

What are you doing for probiotics? That's really important. I've cut back on yogurt recently and am using fermented cabbage juice, which is actually quite palatable. Adequate probiotic may help with C.

Magnesium comes in many forms and some may work better than others. The intestine needs magesium in order to contract. Some people are low in magnesium. In my case, lyme uses a lot of magnesium, or causes magnesium wasting or some such. I tend to be quite low, and on gluten-free initially had to use huge doses of Mag to help with C. I was able to gradually cut that back. On SCD this problem has come and gone, although overall much better. Vitamin C can help too and isn't dangerous in high doses--you can go up to bowel tolerance.

One final thing I discovered is that parasites cause C. The best test currently out there according to my doctor is by Metametrix. It checks for their DNA. SCD cleared out a lot of these, I know because I saw some (most are not visible though). TMI, sorry. However, I had one nasty remaining parasite that I have had 2 rounds of treatment for so far. Celiacs (and lyme patients) are among those more susceptible to parasites.

[YoloGx]

Hi everybody,

I am discovering the 24 hour yogurt is really helping both me and my room-mate ("G"). We have been on a kind of a combined paleo/scd diet for roughly 8 months--after being off gluten for some time previously-- now besides being off all grains we are also off fruit and all sugars due to candida overgrowth plus nuts, potatoes/tomatoes etc. due to various sensitivities. We have been using a variety of squashes as our main carbohydrate instead of grains (we avoid yams and sweet potatoes now too). We often eat vegetables like they were apples and G has taken to making cucumber, summer squash and whatever leafy green whisked up in a blender. It seems to be giving him a lot of extra energy! Am thinking of trying it out too!

This scd diet meanwhile looks a little more forgiving than what we have been on given the yogurt, fruit and honey. So far I seem more able to tolerate a small amount of fruit than I was before (i.e., like none at all!!). The 24 hour fermented yogurt already seems to settle my abdomen and give me more energy and digestive ability--ditto for G.

Its been hard for G to stay on the diet we have had when he's stressed and he has a history of going on minor binges as a comfort even though it usually messes him up--so I am hoping this new comparatively less restrictive diet will work better for him too as well as being more tasty for me. Though he still stays off gluten G will eat sugary things once a week or so and also often eats too much oily stuff like too much guacamole and/or too much tahini. He craves oil, yet it seems to get too him when its out of proportion and then he has to go off most oils for a while or he is in pain (intestinal and joint pain as well as brain fog), ditto with anything that can produce candida overgrowth or for a while while he's recuperating from re-sensitizing himself, uncooked roughage.

As far as the yogurt goes I just mixed up a gallon of the yogurt as per instructions and then set it in my old fashioned gas stove. The single pilot light seems to make it warm enough without making it too hot. I used to make yogurt in my cooler by putting hottish warm water in it as a bath for the yogurt containers--though I never had it sit for 24 hours before. I suppose I could change the water every 10 hours or so and it would still be effective. A single light bulb seems like a good alternative too either in an electric oven or a cooler or whatever. Even a cardboard box would do covered with a towel to hold in the heat--like I used to for chicks.

Am thinking next time I will experiment by using whole milk. Up til now however I could only handle the nonfat milk so we will see. I look forward to trying out the fermented cabbage too.

Ali--you mentioned the liver. I agree it often gets distressed, esp. with celiac etc. I still use herbs pretty regularly which helps me and G a lot. I take herbs for the liver like dandelion or milk thistle quite often--and also either yellow dock root or Oregon grape root which are good for the intestines. I also often take either cleavers or echinacea--both of which help out the lymphatic system. I don't take the the detox herbs all the time, since that would be too much. However I do use them fairly regularly. Ten days on and a week off is what is usually suggested. I often just do 3 days on and 2 or 3 days off--and switch off the herbs from each other (i.e. dandelion for a while, then alternately the milk thistle. The milk thistle however has to be taken in caps whereas the other roots can be made into a brew I stew on the stove for 20 to 30 minutes. I often add a little powdered licorice root too and then the leafy herbs at the end after I turn the heat off. I let it sit and after its cooled I often put it in the fridge. I usually make it strong and then dilute it when it goes to drinking it)

G uses a lot of slippery elm and marshmallow root (we often make a gruel of it) to soothe down and heal inflammation, esp,. after he has gone on a sugar/carb/ too much oil binge--and yes he is hypoglycemic and has to take care so he won't get diabetes.

I do take slippery elm etc. too if I am not feeling well or am under a lot of stress or somehow got CC'd. There are times when it just seems right to take slippery elm or marshmallow root caps regularly.

As said, I am hoping that with this diet G will feel less like eating in such an unbalanced way and I too can have things that are more tasty. I look forward to finding the dry cottage cheese curd and trying to make some kind of dessert with it. I can't do the almond meal however since am allergic as is G. I was reading about the yogurt from an old article Ali put up and saw it could be made into a variety of things, even a type of cheese in itself if drained and aged enough. The cool thing between now and back in the fifties is that we now know about stevia and can make sweets without the sugar or the weird chemical sugar substitutes!

Pickles inspired me to read a bunch of the past missives on this thread, although I haven't gotten through them all! And yes, it is a great resource! It is so cool that the thread is preserved. You all have some very intelligent things that have been said and shared.

I noticed so far that with the scd diet there seems to be less distress from CC expressed than elsewhere on these boards--perhaps from not eating out so much if at all?? Or perhaps the scd diet is such that it helps alleviate more of the symptoms?? I am thinking the yogurt and fermented cabbage juice etc. helps a lot with either possibility. What do you all think--am I close? Or maybe its just that most of those who finally do the scd diet have already gone through the early growing pains of not eating gluten for a while and now, without grains, don't even take the chance to go there with the whole CC issue very much??

Bea

[mftnchn]

I am discovering the 24 hour yogurt is really helping both me and my room-mate ("G").

This scd diet meanwhile looks a little more forgiving than what we have been on given the yogurt, fruit and honey. So far I seem more able to tolerate a small amount of fruit than I was before (i.e., like none at all!!). The 24 hour fermented yogurt already seems to settle my abdomen and give me more energy and digestive ability--ditto for G.

Its been hard for G to stay on the diet ...

G uses a lot of slippery elm and marshmallow root (we often make a gruel of it) to soothe down and heal inflammation, esp,.

I do take slippery elm etc. too if I am not feeling well or am under a lot of stress or somehow got CC'd. There are times when it just seems right to take slippery elm or marshmallow root caps regularly.

I noticed so far that with the scd diet there seems to be less distress from CC expressed than elsewhere on these boards--perhaps from not eating out so much if at all?? Or perhaps the scd diet is such that it helps alleviate more of the symptoms?? I am thinking the yogurt and fermented cabbage juice etc. helps a lot with either possibility. What do you all think--am I close? Or maybe its just that most of those who finally do the scd diet have already gone through the early growing pains of not eating gluten for a while and now, without grains, don't even take the chance to go there with the whole CC issue very much??

Bea, that's great news about the yogurt! The 24 hr process removes the lactose which may be a factor in your tolerance. I'm wondering if rather than a strict candida problem, you've had a general imbalance in the gut flora.

Some of the herbs you mention are mucilaginous which are contraindicated on SCD. Seems like you know yourself and the herbs well, just a heads up. Stevia and all the sweeteners except saccharin are also contraindicated. I think you can use a tiny amount once a week.

With honey, Elaine didn't recommend eliminating it entirely as I recall, if there is a candida problem. She said to cut back. The thing about honey is that because it is a monosaccharide, it should be absorbed high in the small intestines. The problem as I understand it with sugar is that due to damage in the gut, we don't break it down and absorb it, so it goes right down to the lower intestine where it causes havoc with the gut flora.

Dripped yogurt is quite good. For a dessert, my favorite was a decadent cheesecake. I made yogurt from half and half, and dripped it. That takes the place of the cream cheese. Honey for sweetener. Almonds for making the crust but it would be fine with no crust. I cut up fresh strawberries, boiled a few with honey until it was thick. Put the "sauce" on the cheescake and added some more fresh strawberries. I think you said no eggs, but for a treat you might try to find duck eggs. Chicken and duck eggs are different so you might tolerate one and not the other. They are expensive in the USA though. (Not bad here, though--its what I use). Yogurt makes great smoothies as well. Perhaps you will both do well enough on SCD that you can "plan" a weekly foray into a sweet like this. Makes it easier.

In terms of CC, I believe that we have eliminated much of the sources for this because we don't hardly use prepared foods, most of which are not SCD safe. Using whole foods, we don't have to worry so much. Also SCD gives a different explanation for continuing symptoms than CC. I still check on things, for example, I'm careful what almonds, vanilla, dried fruit I buy, etc. But not just for gluten, for starches and sugars as well.

Sherry

[YoloGx]

Bea, that's great news about the yogurt! The 24 hr process removes the lactose which may be a factor in your tolerance. I'm wondering if rather than a strict candida problem, you've had a general imbalance in the gut flora.

Some of the herbs you mention are mucilaginous which are contraindicated on SCD. Seems like you know yourself and the herbs well, just a heads up. Stevia and all the sweeteners except saccharin are also contraindicated. I think you can use a tiny amount once a week.

With honey, Elaine didn't recommend eliminating it entirely as I recall, if there is a candida problem. She said to cut back. The thing about honey is that because it is a monosaccharide, it should be absorbed high in the small intestines. The problem as I understand it with sugar is that due to damage in the gut, we don't break it down and absorb it, so it goes right down to the lower intestine where it causes havoc with the gut flora.

Dripped yogurt is quite good. For a dessert, my favorite was a decadent cheesecake. I made yogurt from half and half, and dripped it. That takes the place of the cream cheese. Honey for sweetener. Almonds for making the crust but it would be fine with no crust. I cut up fresh strawberries, boiled a few with honey until it was thick. Put the "sauce" on the cheescake and added some more fresh strawberries. I think you said no eggs, but for a treat you might try to find duck eggs. Chicken and duck eggs are different so you might tolerate one and not the other. They are expensive in the USA though. (Not bad here, though--its what I use). Yogurt makes great smoothies as well. Perhaps you will both do well enough on SCD that you can "plan" a weekly foray into a sweet like this. Makes it easier.

In terms of CC, I believe that we have eliminated much of the sources for this because we don't hardly use prepared foods, most of which are not SCD safe. Using whole foods, we don't have to worry so much. Also SCD gives a different explanation for continuing symptoms than CC. I still check on things, for example, I'm careful what almonds, vanilla, dried fruit I buy, etc. But not just for gluten, for starches and sugars as well.

Sherry

Hi Sherry! Its nice to hear from you.

As far as the candida overgrowth etc. business goes, the judge is still out. Although I didn't get as much flaking and inflammation I still got a distended abdomen after eating a small peach. Nevertheless that was a big improvement. I hate to think what would happen if I actually ate honey. It may be good for scd in general--however I am pretty certain it would feed the yeast. Of course I could be wrong. At some point when I feel brave I will try the honey out and probably the famed bananas(which at least til now I haven't tolerated). For the meantime I am happy to have the improved yogurt!

Meanwhile I looked up stevia--and found no adverse effects reported from it despite some skewed studies in the US in the past indicating a derivative of it was mutagenic. Turns out those studies were mostly false and probably promoted by the sugar industry. It isn't a sugar -- it just tastes sweet. Its actually helpful for improving one's blood sugar balance according to some studies and South American herbal lore. In Japan stevia accounts for 40% of their "sugar" intake. I actually have a couple of plants out in my garden. They are part of the sunflower family apparently. See the Wikipedia on it here: Open Original Shared Link If there actually is proof that the sunflower family is off the scd list I am in trouble since sunflower seeds are my only "nut-like" substance I eat--and I do eat quite a bit of them.

The duck eggs idea (vs chicken eggs) is a good one, thank you! I should check that out sometime when I go to a Farmers Market.

Meanwhile, I'd love to hear how the scd diet has helped you out!

Bea

[Ms Jan]

Hi Bea,

I can't digest honey of any kind. I have now been on the SCD for 6 mths, and I've tried at various intervals, but I always react badly. Don't know if it's the candida acting out, or simply that I'm intolerant to honey. In any case, it has been no problem to do the SCD without honey, only that I miss out on all the delicious treats which can be made with honey. I have problems also with sweet fruits like pears and most apples etc.

Grape fruits can work very well, since they are not sweet at all. I blend one with lots of water every morning, and it gives a wonderful pulpy juice that I then drink over a couple of hours. Feel it helps cleanse my system and give some energy.

I think all of us have had to adapt the SCD to our own systems - like, in addition to honey I can't digest dairy, eggs and any of the nut flours (even though I can have whole nuts) as well as meats beyond a little chicken. It makes my diet rather simple, but I also feel that exactly that simplicity helps me heal.

Good luck!

Jan

[mftnchn]

Bea, I haven't researched stevia so I'm only mentioning that I think it is on the not okay list. Usually that means Elaine researched the composition and found it to be too high a ratio of the wrong kind of starch, or too much dissaccharide. But I can't remember; it's probably mentioned on one of the web sites. Sometimes she says its not okay but the explanation of why is so complex she doesn't try to explain. Of course, now she is no longer with us and so we have to continue to look for our own research.

I agree with you, Jan, each of us has to adjust this to our particular system. That's also a premise of the diet--eat what you tolerate well and avoid what you don't and try it again later.

Bea, it seems you have made rapid progress on the yogurt, so perhaps you will tolerate more foods quickly.

In my situation, on SCD I had an initial clearly positive shift in energy, a major cleansing effect with visible parasites (a whole clump one time---so very gross) sorry TMI there. Over a week or 10 days, lots of shifts in BM, then settled into the most normal I had ever been. However, progress didn't hold steady, but has been up and down, though I am convinced this has helped me way more than 15 months GFCFSF did. I also lost quite a bit of weight that was inflammation related. Currently I have had a setback related to the new version of Armour thyroid that has had me quite ill for almost 4 months along with much worsening GI. I am hoping the GI will improve now that I'm off that medicine (and will never ever try it again, believe me!) and shifting to a new brand, but don't know for sure what will happen. Like others here, I have a few safe foods, and the list has shrunk over the past 4 months. I have a lot else going on, so relying solely on a dietary approach hasn't been enough for me. I'm still seeking answers. Thanks for asking

[fig girl]

Michelle, I do 3 cups of cabbage and 1 3/4 C of water, blend it well, add 1/4 C of my last batch of juice. I put it in a quart jar at room temperature for 24 hours. Then I strain out the juice and discard the pulp. I do a fresh batch of cabbage every day. It fills my quart jar to 1-2 inches from the top. You are supposed to have at least an inch at the top.

The first time you have to let it set for 3 days. I did add acidophilus to the first batch, but I later realized my acidophilus is now no good (it won't make yogurt). The recipe says you don't have to add any starter, as cabbage naturally has acidophilus.

Bea, I have been increasingly sensitive (not sure why) but I am tolerating this quite well. No fiber is one reason, I think.

Thanks Sherry! I think i see the recipe you use on pecanbread - i used Aquaman's recipe, well i think someone had posted an SCD version of his recipe on there. I used carrots and the juice didn't taste bad! I forgot to dilute it with water my first time drinking it though but i didn't drink that much. I'm diluting it now and drink some after breakfast and after dinner. I've been having gas and pain but having more bm's! After i have a bm the gas and pain seems to subside so i wonder if it's just my gut flora adjusting? The improved bm's may be also partly from stopping the goat yogurt - sorry tmi, but my bm's are less in volume and are firmer after stopping the yogurt. If i remember correctly the SCD goat yogurt still has some casein in it but it's changed after the 24 hr fermenting and if i'm intolerant to it and it still has some in it then that's probably my problem with it - i'm guessing. Oh and no brain fog with the fermented carrots like i got with the goat yogurt.

I'm going to try and find some organic cabbage and hopefully make it with that soon to see if that'll cause less gas but hopefully it's just the killing of the bad beasties going on and will settle down soon!

[fig girl]

Hi to all the newbies....Pickles, Lonewolf and Bea! I hope i'm not missing anyone. Welcome!

This is a wonderful group and everyone is so helpful! I'm at work right now so can't post much but wanted to say a quick Hi. It's been slow progress for me on the diet but not long after starting the SCD i could tell my body was responding well. I'm still very limited - no eggs, dairy, nuts, squash, honey - basically the only things i'm eating is chicken, fish, bison, beef, well cooked carrots, green beans, asparagus, and broccoli, romaine lettuce, ripe banana, avocado, olive oil, sea salt and black pepper. Good luck and i hope you find the diet really helps you!

Michelle

[fig girl]

Hi Bea,

I can't digest honey of any kind. I have now been on the SCD for 6 mths, and I've tried at various intervals, but I always react badly. Don't know if it's the candida acting out, or simply that I'm intolerant to honey. In any case, it has been no problem to do the SCD without honey, only that I miss out on all the delicious treats which can be made with honey. I have problems also with sweet fruits like pears and most apples etc.

Grape fruits can work very well, since they are not sweet at all. I blend one with lots of water every morning, and it gives a wonderful pulpy juice that I then drink over a couple of hours. Feel it helps cleanse my system and give some energy.

I think all of us have had to adapt the SCD to our own systems - like, in addition to honey I can't digest dairy, eggs and any of the nut flours (even though I can have whole nuts) as well as meats beyond a little chicken. It makes my diet rather simple, but I also feel that exactly that simplicity helps me heal.

Good luck!

Jan

Hi Jan,

Just wanted to mention - yesterday morning i juiced a pear and diluted it with a lot of water and drank it after i ate my breakfast but it seemed to increase my gas and pain. The fermented carrots have been causing that too but i could tell the pears weren't good for me - i had burning bum which i guess is a candida flair up symptom for me it seems or an intolerance maybe. I wanted to put a little in my jello for this weekend's prep for my colonoscopy on Monday. I made a little Knox gelatin with just water and had a little bit last week and it seemed to do ok. Hmm, maybe i'll try using grape fruits. Thanks!

Michelle

[Ms Jan]

Hi Michelle,

Glad if the grape fruits can work for you as well. And it might be that the carrots are too sweet for your system. I have problems with them too, particularly if cooked. Recently, I have been able to eat a small one here and there, but only if raw and if a non-sweet kind.

I'm not doing the fermented foods. Probably should, but I can't get myself into it, and the yogurt doesn't agree with me. So I just stick with powdered or capsule probiotics, and hope they do the job ....

Jan

[mftnchn]

Jan I've had the same reaction for a long time about fermented foods. However, to my big surprise, I find the cabbage juice quite palatable, it is especially easy to handle when diluted.

Michelle, that's great news. Seems to me that a shift in the gut motility could take a bit of time to settle. I'm going to further explore the differences between using yogurt and just the cabbage juice, but for now I think I'll not worry too much about it until I get my thyroid problem under control, and my KPU testing completed. I do think the cabbage juice is easier to digest. I like the idea of the yogurt helping to carry the probiotic well into the gut, though.

I did retry some almonds, not as much though. So far, I have had the same response as my last challenge.

Have any of you tried the Sacchromyes Bouldari (sp?) that is available from GIProHealth? I recall that maybe it was Shay who found that extremely helpful. She's not been here for a long time, unfortunately.

[AliB]

Hi All.

I have been reading about the connection between Leptin levels and Insulin resistance and it is pretty interesting.

Leptin is not something that most people, including Doctors are aware of simply because there is no pill for it! There has been quite a bit of research done on it however.

Diabetics, particularly type II's appear to have not only insulin-resistance but also Leptin-resistance and it seems that Leptin is the major player. It can also affect other things including thyroid, inflammation, etc.

It does seem to be affected by the amount of carbs we generally consume in the 'Western' diet, but also the constant need to snack. Because we don't start our lives with a properly balanced diet - throwing the routine into a carb-fuelled yo-yo blood sugar/insulin process, Leptin, like insulin eventually becomes unstable and starts to throw the whole thing out of gear.

Getting the insulin stable is as much to do with getting the Leptin stable as anything else it seems. And the way to do that is yes, to cut down on carbs, particularly processed ones, but also to facilitate the fat-burning process properly by eating at the right time and not snacking, by getting good sleep - during sleep is a crucial fat-burning time, and by exercising at the right time.

One of my problems for years has been an overwhelming urge to snack in the evenings, but I have been trying this, particularly not eating again after having my dinner by 7pm and by the time I go to bed my blood sugar is sitting quite happily and stably at around 5 which is in normal range. Any snacking in the evening, even if I have had insulin seems to whop it up - then it is high in the morning too.

If we snack in the evening the body is using carbs or protein for fuel and is not triggered into the fat-burning mode.

Here, I think maybe Byron Richards can explain it far better than I can...........

Open Original Shared Link ... sulin.html

One interesting thing although I have only been following the protocol for a few days, usually I wake up with no appetite and rarely eat much before lunch, this morning I awoke with a proper hunger response and went down and did myself a couple of scrambled eggs. So it does make a difference.

I have been reading several articles and pieces of research on the net, I have Byron Richards book and am just awaiting Ron Rosedale's book too.

PS. Another point Byron Richards makes is something I twigged recently with myself - if the body is toxic, weight loss won't happen because fat is a toxin store. It won't release the toxins if they have nowhere to go so getting the elimination process working better is an important part of the weight-loss procedure.

Byetta, the drug I was given for Diabetes that triggered my digestive collapse 'forced' my body to lose weight, and fairly rapidly, but my body became very toxic because it couldn't get rid of it fast enough and I became quite ill. Funnily enough I was talking to someone from Diabetes UK yesterday who said that he knows a woman who uses Byetta and she became very ill for a while on it although she is still taking it. I wonder if she became very toxic too......

[YoloGx]

Ali, that is very interesting about Leptin. When I get a little more time I will read the article you referenced us with, probably tonight.

So Ali, please help me with this Stevia controversy. I don't see anywhere that it really could be a problem with the scd diet however Sherry said it was on the illegal list. It has glycosides but no sugars. Here's info on a drug info site: Open Original Shared Link

I do appreciate Sherry's heads up however with not using various things like marshmallow root etc. I had no idea it could cause problems since indeed it does seem to help in the short term. I never knowingly experienced increased candida overgrowth with it or slippery elm. However I am willing to try going without things like it just to see if it really does help. The chemical actions make sense given that there are starches and sugars present--though it also makes sense that it would help block the leaky gut problem and soothe the gut membranes. Slippery elm in particular.

I'd much rather be able to eat ripe bananas than slippery elm or even pectin etc. if you get my drift so I hope Elaine G is right!

Bea

[YoloGx]

Here's what Elaine's Knowledge Base says about stevia: Stevia

Elaine writes:

Stevia belongs to a family called Terpenoids. According to my book called The Organic Constitutents of Higher Plants by Trevor Robinson, 2nd edition, page 158, "This class of glycosides (terpenoids) often have physiological effects on mammals and microorganisms." Perhaps the affect is good, perhaps it is bad; I don't know, but its molecular structure resembles a steroid. It is not SCD

[AliB]

I imagine that Elaine was probably going with what she knew at the time and erring on the side of caution. Personally I think that we all have to settle in to what we feel is right for our own body.

Some people cope perfectly well with the 'legal' yogurt for instance, others don't. Some find that they need to completely eliminate honey for some time but can introduce it later, others don't cope with nuts - its an individual thing at the end of the day.

Sometimes we persevere with apparently legal foods although they don't seem to sit well with us and then really all we are doing is prolonging the healing process. Sometimes we may have a little illegal food and be ok with it, or we have it anyway whether we should or not (me and the chocolate!) and know really that it is prolonging the healing!

Some may wonder why Elaine supported the use of honey which is calorie-rich but not Stevia, which isn't. Honey, and especially raw honey contains a wealth of enzymes and nutrients and is a virtually complete food in its own right - a valuable tool for the benefit of those who suffer with malabsorption due to gut damage and a great help with its antibiotic and healing support properties. The benefits of Stevia, if indeed there are any, seem very low in comparison.

Personally, although I have a little honey occasionally, because I need to keep my blood sugar relatively low because of the Diabetes, I tend not to bother about sweetness. I do have about one square of 85% bitter chocolate most days (nibbled very slowly!), and an occasional hot chocolate with coconut milk, but other than that generally the only sweetness I have comes directly from the fruit and veg.

I also think that you will find, especially if you ensure that you are eating a very good supply of fresh veg, and particularly raw if you can cope with it, and a little fruit here and there, that the biggest impact on your Candida issues will be the removal of grains and starches from your diet. Undigested carbs are their biggest food source - take that away and they have no choice but to die back.

When I look back at the walking 'fungus factory' that I was 18 months ago, to the virtually non-existent evidence of the little beasties now, I can see what a long way I have come.

The debilitating IBS, the raging restless legs, the itchy scalp, thrush, athlete's foot and other very visible and annoying external indications of systemic Candida are all but gone, I sleep much better (when I go to bed early enough!), I have reigned in the carbs and my blood sugar is much more stable so I have been able to reduce my insulin considerably, I no longer need blood pressure tablets, I have lost three stone in weight (still more to go but I am well on the way), I have more energy and am more motivated (except when I don't go to bed early enough!), my digestion is way better than it was 18 months ago when I could hardly eat anything, and Diabetic neuropathy is a thing of the past. Oh, and I realised the other day that my ears aren't ringing any more.

As an exercise I made a list of all my ailments I could think of when I started the diet, both serious and trivial. There were 31 things on the list. There are only 3 now that are unchanged and they are almost certainly connected to the toxin issue, of the other 28 all are improved, most by more than 80%, and some are completely eradicated.

This diet has been a real gem.

(Can't help wondering if I might have got here quicker without the chocolate though........)

[mftnchn]

Yolo, I agree with Ali in terms of it coming down to what works for each. My sense is that with your immediate improvement on yogurt you may be able to introduce things more quickly than some of us, at least I am hopeful for you!

For me the crux of the matter about stevia is what is the chemical composition and can my very compromised digestive system handle it (while it may be totally fine for someone with a healed gut). I haven't done the research required for myself to consider it. My only additional thought for you to consider is to try going without and then challenging it.

Ali, I agree about listening to what our bodies tell us regarding whether a food is good for us or not. Its hard when the body is sending many conflicting messages though!

For all who are still dealing with bloating:

Has anyone ever tried something like this? Open Original Shared Link

Its simple and can be homemade easily to be SCD compliant. I'm going to try it over the next couple of days and see if it helps.

Sherry

[Ms Jan]

Ali,

It's great to hear of your progress . Your mention of chocolate made me think of my own 'healing culprit' which I know is my intakte of coffee and tea. Even though I've managed to cut back, and only have organic coffee as well as only green teas, I still know I get too much caffeine and probably a lot of other stuff that's difficult for my guts to deal with. But yes, with all the restrictions I guess we all weigh the pro's and cons when we transgress .... This being said, I'll still try to find better herbal infusion replacements.

And thanks for the link about leptins. Interesting. Could explain the problem I've found with my constant munching on/ drinking of something. Being neither over- nor underweight, I just thought my way of eating worked perfectly well. And since I always get exhausted if I have a big meal after not having eaten for more than 3 hours, I had simply settled into this constant munching mode. But now I'll try and change it and see what happens.

Sherry,

thanks, I might get up my courage and try the fermented cabbage one of these days ....

Yolo,

You might find that once you cut back on sweet tastes, your body will also stop craving it. And then, fruits or apple sauce will make up great treats.

[YoloGx]

Hi Ali and all--I wasn't able to connect to the the url you (Ali) suggested:

"If we snack in the evening the body is using carbs or protein for fuel and is not triggered into the fat-burning mode.

Here, I think maybe Byron Richards can explain it far better than I can...........

Open Original Shared Link ... sulin.html"

The leptin issue sounds interesting. It makes sense not to eat so late and follow more natural body rythms. Of course this is very hard for some of us.

I have great difficulty falling asleep early unless I really am very overworked and about to fall over. I have a history of not only problems with celiac and a degraded nervous system but also old injuries to my sacrum area and L-5 vetebrae just above the sacrum which then exacerbates the sciatic nerve etc. which in turn can aggravate my kidneys. Exercise thus is key as is diet to avoid any swelling; if my body is swollen then it makes my nights a misery with leg twitching etc. The co-enzyme b vitamins have helped immensely as does diet but I have also had to do more with this exercise thing. Recently I got a modified pilates machine which is really great at helping to strengthen that whole core area as well as the neck, legs and arms.. That plus walking and doing yoga and piriformis stretches has been crucial.

Ali and Sherry, thanks for understanding about the stevia thing. It is true I will likely cut back as fruit becomes more of an option. Until now my only fruit was lemon--which I made into lemon aide with water and stevia. I'd like to try out the honey sometime--but am cautious since in the past it acted so very similarly to sugar with the yeasty beasties. I would love to find I am wrong about that. Meanwhile stevia has not shown itself to be harmful. Certainly it is a better alternative than what Elaine suggested (saccharin).

I think it possible I could make seemingly quicker progress than some with this scd diet since I already have been on a modified paleo diet with parts of it like the scd diet since January or February (I have used squash as my main carbohydrate source and have eaten plain yogurt regularly--it just wasn't 24 hour yogurt!!). I also have regularly detoxed with various herbs for years and have stayed away from all sugars (except it seems from the mucilaginous herbs!). I don't do caffeine or chocolate since both really mess me up--(i.e., makes it so I can't sleep, have to urinate every half hour, makes my heart beat too fast, get migraines etc.)..

I have had carob drinks however fairly regularly (once or twice a week--with the stevia of course!) which is apparently on the scd illegal list. I looked it up and discovered carob has sugar in it -- its other name is St. John's Bread.

Jan I agree--I'll be less likely to need stevia as much now that I can have some ripe banana with the 24 hour yogurt. I look forward to trying grapes out sometime when I am feeling brave--something I haven't tolerated for years!

The effects of this whole dysbiosis thing is truly amazing! I recall getting worse as far as the yeastie beastie skin condition went after taking 2 courses of antibiotics first from a tick bite roughly 5 years ago and then a bacterial infection a year ago that progressed from my lungs to my kidneys after I got CC'd several times in the first months when I went entirely trace gluten free. I took pro-biotics and yogurt as well as a variety of anti fungal herbal remedies religiously but obviously it wasn't enough... Am now still using cats claw and oregano oil as well as enterically coated garlic--all gluten-free. I have a feeling that with this scd diet I won't need as many herbs or supplements.

I wonder if its wise for me to imagine that eventually I will be able to tolerate eggs again like it now appears that Ali does. Traditionally eggs have given me migraines. Ditto with peanut butter which usually makes me weird and really spacey in the head. Anyone here dealt with the migraine issue? Or should I ask, is there anyone here who hasn't (lol!)?

Bea

[Ms Jan]

Bea,

I'm heavy on the migraines ... in fact, debilitating headaches together with vomiting and brainfog have been my main symptoms. strangely I have no other digestive issues (something that always causes confusion for medical dr's). any sweets except for fresh fruits - it takes just half a teaspoon of honey or even less - and I'm down with a headache. And I can't do peanutbutter either. don't know why. and I don't dare try eggs yet, so I don't know what effect they might have on me by now.

Watch your reactions if you try bananas together with the yoghurt. Sometimes the mixing of very different foods can give symptoms you might not get if you were eating each food on its own (it's to do with the different enzymes required for breaking down different foods).