Which Came First?

[user001]

I have been having issues with stomach pain and I haven't been able to pin down exactly why. Been doing food experimentation (elimination, adding etc) every day and im tired. I would really prefer to not go to the doctor, since I have already mentioned it to him twice and he has not bothered to look into it. 

 

Is arthritis caused by leaky gut or celiac? I apologize if this is a really basic question that Im supposed to know.

 

Also any info/links/etc that might be informative regarding leaky gut symptoms and how to treat with diet. I would like to know not only the foods and behaviors that can make it worse, but also how to make it better.

[GottaSki]

Hi there!

Trailing foods during the early months gluten-free is tough and honestly the results aren't very accurate because a healing digestive system can be upset by any food.

If you would like to try what works for many that have leaky gut or autoimmune symptoms that continue once gluten is successfully removed, I suggest reading up on foods that are high in lectin content.

The best thing while you plan any further dietary restrictions is eat whole foods, nothing processed and keep a food/symptom journal.

Hang in there

[user001]

I seem to have symptoms early in the day, 1-2 hours after eating breakfast. I have also considered that my stomach might just be angry at having food in it after being empty for 12 hours since dinner. I can eat the same meal for dinner, as i did for breakfast with no problems.

[user001]

I forgot to ask, which comes first? leaky gut or celiac? does one cause the other and same with arthritis, which causes arthritis?

[GottaSki]

I forgot to ask, which comes first? leaky gut or celiac? does one cause the other and same with arthritis, which causes arthritis?

It is kind of a 'chicken or egg' type question ... in my opinion. When I was initially diagnosed I firmly believed that the damage caused by celiac disease is what caused my other food intolerances and lingering autoimmune symptoms.

Five years later I have read quite a bit, spoken with several experts and now think I may have had another functional digestive disorder since birth that triggered the celiac gene....but have no way given where science is today to confirm which came first.

For most folks if their autoimmune symptoms resolve with the complete elimination of gluten....it would seem they had primary celiac disease that triggered the other AIs. For those of us that take years to improve, it would seem possible that another disorder was primary.

Again...all of this is my opinion and I welcome any additions that prove celiac is the primary disorder in health puzzles similar to mine.

[user001]

It's such a confusing thing and I have been unable to find answers. I do not know if I have leaky gut, I know I am still healing and Im just anxious to feel better and not have abdominal pain everyday. Someone suggested it was a gallbladder problem, but It is the wrong place completely, and is only triggered by eating in the morning. (pain follows 1-2 hrs later)

 

If i eat my meals in reverse, i still have the same pain 1-2 hours after my morning meal but not after my dinner meal, even if i have eggs for dinner instead.

[GottaSki]

I know three months seems like you have been gluten-free for a long time...reality is the damage can simply take time to heal.

Tell me more about this abdominal pain 1-2 hours after the morning meal, but not after other meals.

Is it every day regardless of what is eaten in the morning?

Are you taking digestive enzymes and good quality probiotic?

Have you tried starting the morning with a smoothie or protein shake to see if it is easier on your system?

Possibly TMI...but important part of the equation.....Are your bowels acting properly...neither big D or big C? Daily movements?

[user001]

I have not tried to drink a liquid breakfast yet. Maybe I will try that tomorrow and see if it helps.It has been happening every day since january. Always after a morning meal, I have always eaten as soon as I woke up so i tried waiting an hour or so to eat and that didn't help.  I take a probiotic called kyodophulis, the doctor said that was good, and didnt suggest anything else. I am wary to take anything additional because I don't want to mess with the one thing good i have going on now. Bowels seem to be acting properly. With the exception of the other day when I had a D incident, Things have been pretty ok. Normally no D or C for a couple months now. Usually I have a bm in the morning, usually twice (strange, just how its been since i stopped eating gluten) Then some days once at night. Generally 2-3 times per day, i feel like that is alot but I try to eat small meals and drink alot of water.  The pain doesn't seem to give me bowel problems, it just hurts really bad. I am really curious to see if replacing the meal with a protein shake will help. I have a nutribullet, would you suggest adding a banana to the shake?

[GottaSki]

Sounds like a plan.

Would also recommend digestive enzymes...they really are quite benign, but do help aid digestion....especially in the early days of healing.

Oh....when are you taking the probiotic...could it be causing the distress after the morning meal?

[user001]

In the past before gluten-free diet and diagnosis I had to take probiotics or I felt like I couldn't eat anything without feeling sick. So I really hadn't considered that they were causing a problem now. I think this morning, I actually took them when I started having the pain, not before.

[greenbeanie]

Are you having coffee, tea, juice, or anything else to drink in the morning that you don't drink at other times? Or taking the probiotic in the morning? If so, maybe try doing those things at another time of day, rather than with breakfast. Both coffee and tea made me sick for a while after eliminating gluten (and probably before too, though everything was messed up then so I didn't notice that in particular). I am fine with coffee now, but it took a while. If you're taking the probiotic in the am, it's also possible that that particular one just doesn't agree with you. I still feel really sick after taking some probiotics but am totally fine with others, and it took a while to figure out that it was the probiotic brand and not my breakfast that was causing problems.

Edited: Oh, just saw your probiotic response above - we must have been writing at the same time...

[user001]

I have cut out juice and tea and coffee, I thought they were all bothering me so I cut them out. The only thing I drink now is water.

[user001]

Also, how long did it take you to get coffee back? I love it dearly.

[greenbeanie]

I think it was maybe four or five months when a little coffee started seeming okay, but I forget exactly. My lactose intolerance pretty much disappeared in the tenth month, which was wonderful (and also made coffee more enjoyable!). I've now been gluten free for just over a year, and I can drink a full cup of coffee - or even two, once in a while - with no ill effects.

[user001]

I seem to tolerate some dairy pretty ok, but I try to limit it. I was very lactose intolerant as a child, when i started taking the probiotics they actually helped alot with that issue.

[StephanieL]

I believe the current THEORY is that you have a leaky gut which allows the gluten proteins though the gut wall and causing issues.  I believe that was what Dr. Fasano said when I saw him speaking a few years ago.

[GottaSki]

Yes, the damage caused with active celiac causes the small intestine to become permeable.

That is why folks that heal and go on to live happy healthy lives upon removing gluten likely had primary celiac as the cause of their "Leaky Gut".

For the folks like me that have minimal improvement or get worse after the strict removal of gluten...I believe that celiac may be secondary to some other, yet unknown, functional digestive disorder. There is ongoing research that I hope will provide answers to many of the questions I have. As of today, those answers are still speculative.

[user001]

Ok so I just wanted to update. About an hour and a half ago, I had my protein shake blended with a banana and water. It was super tasty but I really do enjoy a meal at breakfast.. *sigh* No problems as of yet, I also drank a glass of water with lime and another regular glass of water like usual. feeling ok, I will update later. My sis is taking me to a celiac safe place to celebrate my birthday today so that will be my first solid meal, i hope i dont have an issue.

 

Also I put some chicken bones in the slow cooker last night to make bone broth so I will have something to heal my gut and maybe add a little variety to my liquid breakfasts. 12 more hours it has to cook, and it smells so delicious.

[GottaSki]

Ok so I just wanted to update. About an hour and a half ago, I had my protein shake blended with a banana and water. It was super tasty but I really do enjoy a meal at breakfast.. *sigh* No problems as of yet, I also drank a glass of water with lime and another regular glass of water like usual. feeling ok, I will update later. My sis is taking me to a celiac safe place to celebrate my birthday today so that will be my first solid meal, i hope i dont have an issue.

 

Also I put some chicken bones in the slow cooker last night to make bone broth so I will have something to heal my gut and maybe add a little variety to my liquid breakfasts. 12 more hours it has to cook, and it smells so delicious.

 

That is good news....will cross what I got that you have a wonderful Birthday Meal, perhaps take digestive enzymes beforehand

 

Happy Birthday to you!!!!

[user001]

That is good news....will cross what I got that you have a wonderful Birthday Meal, perhaps take digestive enzymes beforehand

 

Happy Birthday to you!!!!

THANK YOU! This is actually the second time I had a chance to go someplace celiac friendly because it was my birthday! Lol I had friends up the other week because they couldnt make it up today. Stomach was good when I left at noon, then I ate like a pig because I knew all the food was safe and I'd be home before any stomach ache could set in. I had a turkey burger with mushrooms and 1 slice of swiss on an UDIs bun with 'grandmas fries' which have fried onions in them. It was pure gluttony really. Then we had rita's. If you are ever in Warren, NJ check out little shanty. I love that place.

 

Thanks for the liquid breakfast suggestion. It seems like my stomach is a bit angry and upset in the morning and just needs something easy to digest while it wakes up. I will try the same thing tomorrow and see how it goes.

[notme]

i still have problems in the morning, but usually settles down (finally!  after almost 4 years!) for the rest of the day.  i still have problems with citrus - LOVE mandarin oranges but they don't digest well.  i'm hoping to get them back in time.  i had to cut out many things for longer than i thought to allow my gut to heal.  it's getting better, but you have to remember that all that time you went undiagnosed, your gut was being damaged.  i don't know whether i ever had 'leaky gut', but i figure just the villi damage is enough to still have trouble for awhile, even off gluten.  hang in there, kiddo.  

 

oh, yeah, and i had to re-learn to 'pass gas' if you know what i mean.....  (because it used to be *not* just gas, lolz) 

 

i am going to nj on saturday  warren -  is that near hackettstown or further south?  (i think my aunt jeanne used to live there)    there is a wonderful place in hackettstown called 'mama's baci cafe' that is safe and dedicated.  ravioli.  need i say more lolz also the st. moritz in sparta has a gluten-free menu and my little sis is the office manager there, so she put the chef through a crash course (she made him read on here, too, haha) i am going to try it out sometime next week.

 

happy bday!  

[user001]

i still have problems in the morning, but usually settles down (finally!  after almost 4 years!) for the rest of the day.  i still have problems with citrus - LOVE mandarin oranges but they don't digest well.  i'm hoping to get them back in time.  i had to cut out many things for longer than i thought to allow my gut to heal.  it's getting better, but you have to remember that all that time you went undiagnosed, your gut was being damaged.  i don't know whether i ever had 'leaky gut', but i figure just the villi damage is enough to still have trouble for awhile, even off gluten.  hang in there, kiddo.  

 

oh, yeah, and i had to re-learn to 'pass gas' if you know what i mean.....  (because it used to be *not* just gas, lolz) 

 

i am going to nj on saturday  warren -  is that near hackettstown or further south?  (i think my aunt jeanne used to live there)    there is a wonderful place in hackettstown called 'mama's baci cafe' that is safe and dedicated.  ravioli.  need i say more lolz also the st. moritz in sparta has a gluten-free menu and my little sis is the office manager there, so she put the chef through a crash course (she made him read on here, too, haha) i am going to try it out sometime next week.

 

happy bday!  

I am actually from sussex county, hamburg, lafayette and newton. The moritz never struck me as a place that would be safe to eat. They might have new owners but they used to be old school, like you eat what i make and dont ask questions. I once asked a question about beef and pork cross contamination, you would have thought i had 2 heads. I actually used to love to eat at the pandan room in hacketstown, but not sure if its celiac safe, i really recommend it, they were always very accommodating.Hacketstown is warren county, this is the town of warren, maybe 45 mins south of hacketstown. If you love burgers and fries, its worth it! The kitchen isn't dedicated but they have separate fryers and prep areas, the owners nephew is celiac and he is very kind to me. Been there twice without any problems. The lemonade is delish too. lemons seem to be good to my tummy.

[user001]

Also passing gas, I had a few bouts with the not passing gas unless i was in the toilet. GLAD THATS OVER!

[notme]

I am actually from sussex county, hamburg, lafayette and newton. The moritz never struck me as a place that would be safe to eat. They might have new owners but they used to be old school, like you eat what i make and dont ask questions. I once asked a question about beef and pork cross contamination, you would have thought i had 2 heads. I actually used to love to eat at the pandan room in hacketstown, but not sure if its celiac safe, i really recommend it, they were always very accommodating.Hacketstown is warren county, this is the town of warren, maybe 45 mins south of hacketstown. If you love burgers and fries, its worth it! The kitchen isn't dedicated but they have separate fryers and prep areas, the owners nephew is celiac and he is very kind to me. Been there twice without any problems. The lemonade is delish too. lemons seem to be good to my tummy.

lolz - my husband is from (sussex, newton) hamburg <one of them there sussex county boys - he graduated from vo-tech  i grew up in newfoundland (graduated from west milford) we got married in blairstown but we have lived in andover, sparta, & wantage.  i was thinking i had an aunt that lived in the *town* of warren and it was a loooong ride from newfoundland, especially when you're a kid.  i'll have to keep that place in mind!  the name of it was 'the shack"  is that right?

 

yep, the st. moritz have new owners.  the old guy, arthur <and, yes, he was exactly like that!) finally died and they sold the place.  the new owners started saying they had gluten free meals and my sister threw a fit.  she told them:  you are going to make people sick.  so they changed things and got educated.  they now have a dedicated area in the kitchen for gluten free.  (don't worry i am going to quiz them to death lolz)  

[user001]

"Little shanty" it's pretty kid friendly too.

 

So strange to see someone from sussex county on here! It's a small county that was pretty sparsely populated till recent years. I live in New Brunswick now, not sure I'd survive eating out in sussex county. I don't even try when I visit.