Fecal what? Just learned something new!

[Victoria1234]

So I just found a pub med study from a year ago..... Open Original Shared Link. I only read the abstract and I'm still saying omg, they do what? Not sure how they do it though, was trying to eat dinner when I ran across it, lol. Ok yes, I'm actually 3 years old. Although it is fascinating it can supposedly cure refractory celiac disease.

Abstract

Treatment of refractory celiac disease type II (RCD II) and preventing the development of an enteropathy associated T-cell lymphoma in these patients is still difficult. In this case report, we describe a patient with RCD II who received fecal microbiota transfer as treatment for a recurrent Clostridium difficile infection, and remarkably showed a full recovery of duodenal villi and disappearance of celiac symptoms. This case suggests that altering the gut microbiota may hold promise in improving the clinical and histological consequences of celiac disease and/or RCD II.

[trents]

What do you mean by saying you are "actually 3 years old"?

[Celiac's Wifey]

 Well....my three year old is totally fascinated by poop, too, and also finds it totally funny.

She likes to rate whether or not her poop is 'de-cust-ing.' (disgusting) Oddly, this is a label only some poop gets.... I guess poop that cures celiac disease would be not de-cust-ing?

I remember reading about fecal transplants a few years ago (not in connection to celiac) and being horror/fascinated like the inappropriate slow drive down / rubbernecking down a highway where you can't help but look...

Just the idea that someone thought of the procedure....and then got medical approval to try it.... is totally bizarre/fascinating. Especially because in several specific serious diseases it seems to really work. (!)

Jonathan Swift would be proud.

(Anyone else remember how often he mentioned poop in Gulliver's Travels?)

[Victoria1234]

3 hours ago, Celiac's Wifey said:

Just the idea that someone thought of the procedure....and then got medical approval to try it....

I know, right!? It's crazy! 

I told my husband I want a fecal transplant from him as his insides are so much healthier than mine. He just gave me a look though. 

[Victoria1234]

7 hours ago, trents said:

What do you mean by saying you are "actually 3 years old"?

Well I guess I meant that my sense of humour is at a 3 year old's level. 

[trents]

5 hours ago, Victoria1234 said:

Well I guess I meant that my sense of humour is at a 3 year old's level. 

Ah, makes sense now. I was thinking that was a pretty articulate post for a  3 year old. 

I 'm thinking a turkey baster would work well for the transfer. People could probably do it at home.

[TexasJen]

Actually, I learned recently that there is a website that teaches people how to do it on their own at home.  I was so de-cust-ed!  I can't even imagine doing something that we know so little about (and is sort of gross) on your own.  But I am very curious about this and hope there is some research on it in the future.  Oh how I would love to eat a real hamburger again!

Thanks!

 

[trents]

But what doesn't make sense to me is that this procedure would seem to only transfer microbiota from and into the lower intestine whereas Celiac Disease involves the upper section of the intestine. Do you suppose they crawl up?

[cyclinglady]

11 minutes ago, trents said:

But what doesn't make sense to me is that this procedure would seem to only transfer microbiota from and into the lower intestine whereas Celiac Disease involves the upper section of the intestine. Do you suppose they crawl up?

There a very few bacteria located in the small intestine compared to the colon.  I do not get it either.  Neither do researchers.  This was attempted as a cure for C. diff.  And not a cure for celiac disease.  The patient had refractory celiac  type II which is really bad (rare too) and he probably did not have a lot to lose.  We do not know.   Maybe they were willing to try anything.  Not even sure this was done in the US where experimenting can be a legal nightmare.

This report,  published on PUB MED, was just a clinical report and not some huge research study.  Like the report that one kid finally got her celiac antibodies down by ditching her dental retainer.  Just "one" clinical report does not make it a scientific fact.  

No one knows what really causes autoimmune disease.  No one has a cure.  Lots of theories, but no definitive facts.  Let's face it, studying the GI tract is not glamorous.  Most likely the gut is way behind in research compared to other parts of the body.  

[trents]

Yeah, I think we need to see this kind of experimental therapy be repeated and vetted before people jump on the bandwagon and start ordering home kits.

[Victoria1234]

52 minutes ago, TexasJen said:

Actually, I learned recently that there is a website that teaches people how to do it on their own at home.  I was so de-cust-ed!  I can't even imagine doing something that we know so little about (and is sort of gross) on your own.  But I am very curious about this and hope there is some research on it in the future.  Oh how I would love to eat a real hamburger again!

Thanks!

 

It's very medieval sounding.

[Celiac's Wifey]

48 minutes ago, Victoria1234 said:

It's very medieval sounding.

This made me laugh.

Just picturing bleeding bowls, leeches, and people in funny hats insisting that transferring the fecal matter is a great idea....

On the other hand I once heard a fascinating podcast about a medieval monk's recipe/instruction set that when properly followed today creates an incredibly powerful antibiotic that can kill some resistant bacteria:

Open Original Shared Link

I think in the comments people fact checked different parts of it and took issue with some of the story telling, but I still found it interesting....so many things under the sun....

 

[Victoria1234]

24 minutes ago, Celiac's Wifey said:

This made me laugh.

Just picturing bleeding bowls, leeches, and people in funny hats insisting that transferring the fecal matter is a great idea....

On the other hand I once heard a fascinating podcast about a medieval monk's recipe/instruction set that when properly followed today creates an incredibly powerful antibiotic that can kill some resistant bacteria:

Open Original Shared Link

I think in the comments people fact checked different parts of it and took issue with some of the story telling, but I still found it interesting....so many things under the sun....

 

I LOVE radiolab! Thanks for the link!

[ravenwoodglass]

2 hours ago, TexasJen said:

Actually, I learned recently that there is a website that teaches people how to do it on their own at home.  I was so de-cust-ed!  I can't even imagine doing something that we know so little about (and is sort of gross) on your own.  But I am very curious about this and hope there is some research on it in the future.  Oh how I would love to eat a real hamburger again!

Thanks!

 

That could be very dangerous. When done in a hospital setting the fecal material has been treated to destroy anything that might be harmfull. They aren't just inserting raw feces.

It has, from what I read, had some success with folks with Cdiff.