High Gliadin levels

[May2000]

  On 8/10/2023 at 8:03 PM, knitty kitty said:

Sluggish DNA?  

Hmmm, sluggish DNA makes me think of mitochondria because they are busy replicating DNA.  Mitochondria don't work well when there's a deficiency in Thiamine Vitamin B 1.  Without sufficient thiamine, the mitochondria can become dysfunctional.  

A person can roll along with subclinical vitamin deficiencies.  Symptoms can wax and wane mysteriously depending on the amount of vitamins they get from their diet.  But a shift in diet or stress can tip the balance into outright deficiencies.  

Thiamine is the B vitamin that can become depleted in as little as three days.  Thiamine deficiency symptoms can be localized in the digestive system, called Gastrointestinal Beriberi.  

I had Gastrointestinal Beriberi.  The symptoms are very similar to Celiac Disease.  Bloating, digestive problems, etc.  I knew I was not getting gluten in my diet, and finally realized, as my symptoms worsened, that it was Thiamine deficiency.  

Here's an article from NIH...

Gastrointestinal beriberi: a forme fruste of Wernicke’s encephalopathy?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6040496/

And another.... (alcohol prevents the absorption of nutrients similar to CeD)...

Gastrointestinal Beriberi and Wernicke's Encephalopathy Triggered by One Session of Heavy Drinking

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6739701/

And...see if your symptoms are similar...

Thiamine deficiency disorders: a clinical perspective

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8451766/

 

Since Thiamine is safe and nontoxic even in high doses, I tried Thiamine supplementation at high doses and had health improvements within the hour.  I was very deficient.  Most people get improvement within days.  Several months of supplementing with high dose Thiamine found me feeling better than I had for years.  It takes about that long to start replacing nonfunctional mitochondria.

Of course, it's usual to have deficiencies across the board, so I was taking a B Complex supplement, too, since the eight B vitamins all need each other to work properly.  Thiamine needs magnesium to make important enzymes, so I took magnesium glycinate.  I took Thiamine Hydrochloride, and Benfotiamine (another form of thiamine that helps heal the digestive system).

My doctors had been totally clueless.  They had said I was just making stuff up because they couldn't find anything wrong.  I'd had nutrition and microbiology classes at university, and, by Grace, the pieces of the puzzle began to fit together.

High dose Thiamine is worth a try, if only to rule it out. 

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Your knowledge is impressive and I’m going to read what you wrote a couple of times. It sounds like you are on the right path- but they said I have a mutation in my MTFHFR gene. One of the issues of this is reduced enzyme function to convert upstream folate into methylfolate but I was not clear on the sluggish DNA part of things which is why I need to read what you wrote a couple of times. Interesting how you knew that sluggish DNA has a direct nexus to vitamin B’s. 

[May2000]

  On 8/10/2023 at 8:03 PM, knitty kitty said:

Sluggish DNA?  

Hmmm, sluggish DNA makes me think of mitochondria because they are busy replicating DNA.  Mitochondria don't work well when there's a deficiency in Thiamine Vitamin B 1.  Without sufficient thiamine, the mitochondria can become dysfunctional.  

A person can roll along with subclinical vitamin deficiencies.  Symptoms can wax and wane mysteriously depending on the amount of vitamins they get from their diet.  But a shift in diet or stress can tip the balance into outright deficiencies.  

Thiamine is the B vitamin that can become depleted in as little as three days.  Thiamine deficiency symptoms can be localized in the digestive system, called Gastrointestinal Beriberi.  

I had Gastrointestinal Beriberi.  The symptoms are very similar to Celiac Disease.  Bloating, digestive problems, etc.  I knew I was not getting gluten in my diet, and finally realized, as my symptoms worsened, that it was Thiamine deficiency.  

Here's an article from NIH...

Gastrointestinal beriberi: a forme fruste of Wernicke’s encephalopathy?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6040496/

And another.... (alcohol prevents the absorption of nutrients similar to CeD)...

Gastrointestinal Beriberi and Wernicke's Encephalopathy Triggered by One Session of Heavy Drinking

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6739701/

And...see if your symptoms are similar...

Thiamine deficiency disorders: a clinical perspective

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8451766/

 

Since Thiamine is safe and nontoxic even in high doses, I tried Thiamine supplementation at high doses and had health improvements within the hour.  I was very deficient.  Most people get improvement within days.  Several months of supplementing with high dose Thiamine found me feeling better than I had for years.  It takes about that long to start replacing nonfunctional mitochondria.

Of course, it's usual to have deficiencies across the board, so I was taking a B Complex supplement, too, since the eight B vitamins all need each other to work properly.  Thiamine needs magnesium to make important enzymes, so I took magnesium glycinate.  I took Thiamine Hydrochloride, and Benfotiamine (another form of thiamine that helps heal the digestive system).

My doctors had been totally clueless.  They had said I was just making stuff up because they couldn't find anything wrong.  I'd had nutrition and microbiology classes at university, and, by Grace, the pieces of the puzzle began to fit together.

High dose Thiamine is worth a try, if only to rule it out. 

Expand Quote  

 

  On 8/10/2023 at 8:03 PM, knitty kitty said:

Sluggish DNA?  

Hmmm, sluggish DNA makes me think of mitochondria because they are busy replicating DNA.  Mitochondria don't work well when there's a deficiency in Thiamine Vitamin B 1.  Without sufficient thiamine, the mitochondria can become dysfunctional.  

A person can roll along with subclinical vitamin deficiencies.  Symptoms can wax and wane mysteriously depending on the amount of vitamins they get from their diet.  But a shift in diet or stress can tip the balance into outright deficiencies.  

Thiamine is the B vitamin that can become depleted in as little as three days.  Thiamine deficiency symptoms can be localized in the digestive system, called Gastrointestinal Beriberi.  

I had Gastrointestinal Beriberi.  The symptoms are very similar to Celiac Disease.  Bloating, digestive problems, etc.  I knew I was not getting gluten in my diet, and finally realized, as my symptoms worsened, that it was Thiamine deficiency.  

Here's an article from NIH...

Gastrointestinal beriberi: a forme fruste of Wernicke’s encephalopathy?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6040496/

And another.... (alcohol prevents the absorption of nutrients similar to CeD)...

Gastrointestinal Beriberi and Wernicke's Encephalopathy Triggered by One Session of Heavy Drinking

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6739701/

And...see if your symptoms are similar...

Thiamine deficiency disorders: a clinical perspective

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8451766/

 

Since Thiamine is safe and nontoxic even in high doses, I tried Thiamine supplementation at high doses and had health improvements within the hour.  I was very deficient.  Most people get improvement within days.  Several months of supplementing with high dose Thiamine found me feeling better than I had for years.  It takes about that long to start replacing nonfunctional mitochondria.

Of course, it's usual to have deficiencies across the board, so I was taking a B Complex supplement, too, since the eight B vitamins all need each other to work properly.  Thiamine needs magnesium to make important enzymes, so I took magnesium glycinate.  I took Thiamine Hydrochloride, and Benfotiamine (another form of thiamine that helps heal the digestive system).

My doctors had been totally clueless.  They had said I was just making stuff up because they couldn't find anything wrong.  I'd had nutrition and microbiology classes at university, and, by Grace, the pieces of the puzzle began to fit together.

High dose Thiamine is worth a try, if only to rule it out. 

Expand Quote  

[May2000]

  On 8/10/2023 at 9:05 PM, Wheatwacked said:

80% of the mitochondrial membrane is Choline. No choline, no new mitochondria, less health.  Less than 10% of us eat enough choline containing foods (primary source liver, eggs, beefsteak).  Choline is needed to digest fats (floating, off color, smelly poop). It makes up most of the bile salts, reduces homocysteine (cardiovascular inflammation), makes up acetlycholine (brain fog).

Add choline to the B's and D.

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That’s very interesting. I will look into supplements. 

[knitty kitty]

Yes, the MTHFR genetic mutation is common with Celiac Disease.  

Methylated forms of vitamins are the activated forms of some of the B vitamins.  Methylfolate, methyl Cobalamine, P5P form of Pyridoxine.  The activated forms of these vitamins are ready for the body to use.  

Definitely MTHFR mutation can affect mitochondrial health.

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/PrimaryMitochondrialDisorders-HealthProfessional/

And...

The Roles of Mitochondrial Folate Metabolism in Supporting Mitochondrial DNA Synthesis, Oxidative Phosphorylation, and Cellular Function

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7584446/

And...

Folate and DNA Methylation: A Review of Molecular Mechanisms and the Evidence for Folate's Role

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3262611/

Yes, the B vitamins all work together.  Yes, my vitamins are the methylated forms.  

Edited August 11, 2023 by knitty kitty
Typo

[Wheatwacked]

  On 8/10/2023 at 11:49 PM, May2000 said:

reduced enzyme function to convert upstream folate into methylfolate

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There are 3 paths to methylate homocysteine to methionine. The best known is B12 and Folate.  The second is vitamin B6. The third and mostly disregarded is Choline.  Increasing choline reduces the need for folate.  Folate and Choline also help prevent embryonic neural tube defects.  Fortified foods have added folic acid for this reason.  gluten-free foods are not required to be fortified.

[knitty kitty]

Dr. Derrick Lonsdale, published on NIH, has done much research on mitochondria and thiamine.  He and Dr. Chandler Marrs have interesting articles on Dr. Marrs' website.

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/mitochondria-need-nutrients/

[Rogol72]

  On 8/11/2023 at 12:47 AM, knitty kitty said:

Yes, the MTHFR genetic mutation is common with Celiac Disease.  

Methylated forms of vitamins are the activated forms of some of the B vitamins.  Methylfolate, methyl Cobalamine, P5P form of Pyridoxine.  The activated forms of these vitamins are ready for the body to use.  

Definitely MTHFR mutation can affect mitochondrial health.

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/PrimaryMitochondrialDisorders-HealthProfessional/

And...

The Roles of Mitochondrial Folate Metabolism in Supporting Mitochondrial DNA Synthesis, Oxidative Phosphorylation, and Cellular Function

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7584446/

And...

Folate and DNA Methylation: A Review of Molecular Mechanisms and the Evidence for Folate's Role

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3262611/

Yes, the B vitamins all work together.  Yes, my vitamins are the methylated forms.  

Expand Quote  

Is there any danger of becoming over methylated? Should we cycle on an off Methyl B Vitamins from time to time? I've read that over methylation can cause symptoms such a irritability, anxiousness, crabby.

[knitty kitty]

Over methylated symptoms sound like other vitamin deficiencies may be incurred when the methylated forms of B12 and methylfolate deplete other B vitamins necessary in different processes.  

I found this article very interesting.  It discusses thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide and methylation, and how thiamine supplementation can reveal a methylation problem.

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/paradoxical-reactions-ttfd-methylation-connection/

[May2000]

  On 8/11/2023 at 8:27 AM, knitty kitty said:

Over methylated symptoms sound like other vitamin deficiencies may be incurred when the methylated forms of B12 and methylfolate deplete other B vitamins necessary in different processes.  

I found this article very interesting.  It discusses thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide and methylation, and how thiamine supplementation can reveal a methylation problem.

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/paradoxical-reactions-ttfd-methylation-connection/

Expand Quote  

I’m such a layman on the topic so I’m not sure I fully understand, but good to keep in mi d.