Jump to content
  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.




  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):



    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):


  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

Gluten Free Beer - The Enzymatic Hydrolyzation Process Problem


Jason Dyer

Recommended Posts

Jason Dyer Newbie

I recently saw an article on Celiac.com (paid, I believe) about a great gluten-free beer that uses an enzymatic hydrolyzation process to reduce gluten below 20 parts per million (ppm), but I was unable to leave comments. That prompted me to craft this post.

The article claimed that barley-based beers that use enzymes to break the gluten protein chain result in a final product with a dramatically reduced gluten content, at least as can be presently measured using the R5 Competitive ELISA test. That sounds great, doesn't it? So, why the post?

I have celiac disease, I'm a former home brewer, and I have collaborated with several craft brewers on gluten-free batches using barley. That's far from being a master brewer or a gastroenterologist—full disclosure—but I've been studying this topic for the better part of 20 years and testing many beers on my biome, and here's what I've learned.

If you are gluten intolerant, these enzyme beers (as I call them) are great. If you are a celiac like me, you are STILL rolling the dice with these beers in two important ways.

First, they all have a slightly metallic finish, which I believe has to do with the enzymes because they all taste that way to me. I'm not here to bash any brands trying to serve our community legitimately. So, I won't name names, but if you are reading anything on this site, you likely know the ones that are out there. Second, and more importantly, while these enzyme processes DO cleave the gluten proteins into smaller chains, they DO NOT remove them. It makes the proteins smaller and, as the theory goes, that makes them easier to pass through the gut. It also conveniently makes them harder to detect using the R5 Competitive ELISA test. Do you believe that means the enzyme beers are safer?

Almost every celiac I have spoken to has told me the same thing. You may get one enzyme beer that does not trigger symptoms, but the next one you pull sends you to the bathroom. Again, you are rolling the dice with enzyme beers. 

You say, what about the sorghum, rice, corn, and buckwheat beers? Well, as a brewing product, they are awesome. Some great brewers are doing creative things using these grains to make some amazing alternatives. Kudos to them and THANK YOU. However, the mouthfeel is not the same. If you have ever known barley-based beer, you can taste the difference. Some are bitter. Some are a little skunky. Some are stale. Some are so buried in flavors or hops that you can't taste anything else at all. And hey, maybe that's ok. The world of beer has gone practically crazy with hops, fruit, and other additives to win over younger drinkers who did not grow up seeing beer as the thing to drink. Gluten free brewers are not immune to trends in market preferences. 

But, what am I saying?

There are alternative methods that taste great and are safe, but enzyme beers are not among them. Don't believe the marketing. My own body tells me so, and so does what I have learned from numerous experts about the process of enzymatic hydrolyzation. Again, I'm not a master brewer, chemist, doctor, or lab tech, but I've done a ton of research and can speak from personal experience.

My pitch: if you are a brewer or know a brewer who wants to invest in gluten-free barley-based brewing, contact me. There is a way forward that is not about alternate grains or enzymes. Honestly though, I found traditional brewers to be too distracted by their gluten-rich business to allocate consistent resources to what is a dietary requirement and preference of 20-30% of American consumers. Does adding my pitch here mean this post is all about finding a brewer to work with? No. I hate to see enzyme marketing without a fuller understanding of what happens with the protein, test, and celiacs. I know new celiacs will use this site and others, looking for a beer option, and will end up sick. And, if I've learned anything in the past 20 years, traditional brewers don't want to tackle the gluten-free market. So, my pitch is merely the longshot, last ditch effort of a beer-loving celiac. I don't expect anyone to contact me. I hope that the readers of this post will look at the enzyme beers with more caution than their marketing provides. 

 


Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):



Scott Adams Grand Master

I can testify that Daura does not have a "metallic" taste, or any off taste at all--it's an outstanding beer. I have celiac disease and don't have issues with Daura, but do agree that gluten reduced beers are not for everyone.

I also started back in the mid-90's brewing gluten-free beer, so do know a lot about how they do this--AN-PEP enzymes like those in Clarex have been shown in studies to break down gluten (this does not instill any off tastes that I have ever detected), and modern filtration processes further remove remnants of gluten. 

There are also studies that show some regular beers have extremely low gluten content, even if they do not use such enzymes. Some of our users with celiac disease have reported drinking regular beers for years without any issues or elevated antibody tests or villi damage, but others have discovered that they cannot tolerate the same beers, or any gluten reduced beers. There are plenty 100% gluten-free beers that use alternative grains for those with celiac disease who prefer to avoid reduced gluten beers.

trents Grand Master

Jason, I have a bone to pick with your terminology. There is "gluten intolerance" which I believe is synonymous with celiac disease and then there is "gluten sensitivity" which comes from Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity or NCGS for short. It is true, however, that there is still a lot of inconsistency in the use of these terms.

Jason Dyer Newbie

Thanks, Scott and Trents.

Scott, tastes vary of course. The metallic taste may just be me. As to the filtration efficacy, I can only add that the micron level to remove a smaller protein chain must be pretty tight. What about the impact of hydrolization on the R5 test? I've been told it presents a challenge.

Trents, thanks for the clarification. I did not draw this distinction, but can. I honestly didn't perceive the nuance. 

Appreciate the feedback from you both. 

trents Grand Master

I'm wondering if this is the same issue some celiacs have with distilled liquors. The complete gluten molecule is too large and heavy to to travel up with the vapor but if their are gluten fragments created by the heat, they may not be and the immune systems of some celiacs still recognize it as gluten. I have no scientific proof for this, just a thought because we have so many forum contributors who still react to these "gluten removed" products.

Jason Dyer Newbie

Trents,

It's a good question. The experts I have spoken to have told me the distillation process does remove the offensive proteins. Again, I'm not the expert on that. I'm only reporting. I don't have any issue with distilled spirits that don't have any additives.

That said, maybe there is something else at play here? Good question for the forum. 

Scott Adams Grand Master
20 hours ago, trents said:

Jason, I have a bone to pick with your terminology. There is "gluten intolerance" which I believe is synonymous with celiac disease and then there is "gluten sensitivity" which comes from Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity or NCGS for short. It is true, however, that there is still a lot of inconsistency in the use of these terms.

Actually, gluten intolerance and celiac disease are not the same. Celiac disease is an autoimmune disorder triggered by gluten, while gluten intolerance is a broader term that can include Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity (NCGS). NCGS involves gluten-related symptoms without the autoimmune or allergic response seen in celiac disease. The terms are often used inconsistently, which can cause confusion.


Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):



Scott Adams Grand Master

For those with celiac disease we know that there is a huge range in sensitivity, for example we've had many members here who report that even smelling wheat bread cooking in a bakery, for example a bakery in a supermarket, triggers an immediate gluten reaction that can last days or longer. Is there science to back this up--not that I've seen. Does this mean that it can't happen? Since it does seem to happen to some people, I can't say that there isn't something real happening to these folks. 

Similarly there seems to be celiacs who can drink even regular beers, many of which have detectable gluten at under 20ppm, without issues, and many drink gluten reduced beers made from barley on a daily basis without issues, and without elevated antibodies or damaged villi. I also know that some celiacs report getting very sick from a single sip of gluten reduced beer. To be on the safe side it's probably best to stick with a naturally gluten-free beer, however, many of them lack the real beer taste, thus, some celiacs cheat on their diets and just drink regular beer. In this case I think having a choice is important, and drinking a gluten reduced option would be better than regular beer. 

Scott Adams Grand Master

PS - Many new celiacs report that they can go gluten-free, with the exception of giving up beer. That seems to be a bridge too far from many celiacs, and may be why nearly 20% cheat on their diets:

 

Jason Dyer Newbie

Wow. I mean, I REALLY don't want to give up beer, but I NEVER cheat. I get caught (glutenized in my vernacular), but I never cheat. I didn't even know that was a thing...

trents Grand Master
1 hour ago, Scott Adams said:

Actually, gluten intolerance and celiac disease are not the same. Celiac disease is an autoimmune disorder triggered by gluten, while gluten intolerance is a broader term that can include Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity (NCGS). NCGS involves gluten-related symptoms without the autoimmune or allergic response seen in celiac disease. The terms are often used inconsistently, which can cause confusion.

Scott, I know full well that celiac disease is an autoimmune disorder and gluten sensitivity is not. And I agree that there is inconsistency in the use of the terms. But my contention is that "gluten intolerance" should not be used of NCGS since "gluten sensitivity" is actually found in the gluten disorder known as Non Celiac Gluten Sensitivity and, therefore, "gluten intolerance" should be reserved as a common/nonmedical equivalent for celiac disease. It also seems to me that "intolerance" implies something more severe than does "sensitive". And it just seems to me that, though there is still a lot of inconsistency in the use of these terms, there is a movement toward using "gluten intolerant" to refer to celiac disease rather than NCGS. But that is just my opinion and perhaps, to be honest, a bit of a personal crusade. Actually, we would all be better off if we quit using the those informal terms "intolerance" and "sensitivity" and just speak of celiac disease and NCGS.

Scott Adams Grand Master

As I mentioned, gluten intolerance encompasses more than just those with celiac disease, and in the past was used more like the term "gluten sensitivity" is used today.

  • 6 months later...
Russ H Community Regular

Rather than create a new thread, I thought I would post to this one as it is on topic. The paper linked below is quite comprehensive regarding the state of knowledge of the safety of hydrolysed barley gluten. The final section gives a good summary.

Barley based gluten free beer – A blessing or an uncontrollable risk?

Quote

7. Challenges ahead

Based on current knowledge it is difficult to assess whether barley-based gluten-free beer is safe for consumers with coeliac disease.

As CD4+ T cells are considered the drivers of immunopathology of coeliac disease, a comprehensive definition of the epitopes recognised by these gluten-specific CD4+ T cells will be essential. Not all T-cell epitopes have been defined as yet, and further identification of T-cell epitopes in barley will be important for proper assessment of beers. Assessing safety of peptides found in gluten-reduced beers just by homology with published gluten T-cell epitopes, as some current sequence databases do, may be misleading (see section 6).

There are analytical challenges to control and monitor the production of gluten-free beer. While there is a controversy whether antibodies and immunoassays give reliable quantitative assessment of gluten content, it remains a fact that many antibody assays target sequences which are not T-cell epitopes, and no antibody assay targets all immunotoxic gluten T-cell epitopes or total gluten. The antibody-based immunoassays provide useful information though, not least because they provide quantitative assessments. The main problem is to relate the information obtained from such assays to the in vivo toxicity of beer. Ideally, recommendations as to whether beers are safe to coeliac disease patients will require some sort of in vivo toxicity assessment. Clinical feeding studies with small-bowel histology is considered the best approach to establish adverse clinical effects. Current gluten limits were estimated from a clinical feeding study with small-bowel biopsies using whole gluten (Catassi et al., 2007). In beer, there are short peptides which likely are handled by the gut digestive system different from whole gluten in a food matrix. It will be important to conduct feeding studies of coeliac disease patients with analytically characterised protein/peptide extracts of beer.

In summary, analysts are at present aiming to be very accurate in quantifying gluten in gluten free beer, yet there is uncertainty about the clinical relevance of the degraded proteins. We recommend future progress will require.

1.In vivo toxicity assessments of the degraded proteins in coeliac disease patients;

2.Development of standardised gluten-free production strategies to minimise variability in resulting gluten fragments and guidance aimed at producers and authorities on how to control the outcome;

3.Development of appropriate RMs and calibrators based on (1) and (2).

 

trents Grand Master

So, as I understand this, there is uncertainty as to how much the gluten protein has to be degraded before it is safe and doesn't cause a reaction. There is also uncertainty as to how consistently hydrolysis processes degrade the gluten protein and there may be considerable variability from one processing setting to another. I suspect this also is a problem with other "gluten free" products made from wheat starch such as certain pizza brands.

Russ H Community Regular

Yes, that seems to be the gist.

Quantifying residues in fermented foods and drinks seems to be difficult. There are no tests for total gluten, just immunoassays, which generally detect a single epitope. There are estimated to be approximately 50 sequences that evoke a T-cell response of which nearly half are unknown and have no test.

Gluten fragments remain that bind to IgA and IgG in vitro but this does not necessarily make them immunotoxic. Also, the fragments are "drastically reduced" by gastrodudenal digestion.

PEP enzyme cannot cleave all proline sites and there is a large variation in the amount of residual gluten in gluten reduced beers.

I.e. the safety of gluten reduced beer is uncertain.

 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):



  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      131,857
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748

    LowellFrancis
    Newest Member
    LowellFrancis
    Joined

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):


  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121.4k
    • Total Posts
      1m

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):





  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):



  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • Rogol72
      Some interesting articles regarding the use of Zinc Carnosine to help heal gastric ulcers, gastritis and intestinal permeability. I would consult a medical professional about it's use. https://www.nature.com/articles/ncpgasthep0778 https://www.rupahealth.com/post/clinical-applications-of-zinc-carnosine---evidence-review https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7146259/ https://www.fallbrookmedicalcenter.com/zinc-l-carnosine-benefits-dosage-and-safety/
    • Jillian83
      He is. Which makes everything even more difficult. I’m not a believer in “staying for the kids” but I have nowhere to go and it’s not just me, it’s me plus my babies. We live in a beautiful place, lots of land in the country and me and the kids love the place we’ve called home for their entire lives. But Im seeing that he’ll never change, that my kids deserve a happy healthy Momma, and that staying in this as is will be the early death of me. Then I look at the scars covering my entire body…this disease and the chronic stress I’ve been enduring for years that tell me I’m no longer beautiful and no one will ever look at me with interest again. I try self care, try to give myself grace so I can just start loving myself enough to gain strength but the slightest sparkle in my eye and skip in my step attracts his wrath and it all comes crashing ten fold. Life is just absolutely railing me from every single direction leaving me wanting to wave that white flag bc I don’t feel like there’s much hope no matter what happens. 
    • trents
    • Jillian83
      Hi, I was recently diagnosed with Celiac and dermatitis herpetiformis after years of suffering without answers. I lost my mind. I lost my job. I lost so much time. I lost Me. Conventional doctors are opulent come near me and the one who did sat across the room, misdiagnosed me, pumped me full of steroids which collapsed my entire hip for 6 months. So without answers I began my holistic journey. Fast forward a couple of years and still struggling with a mysterious whole body itchy, crawling “skin hell”, perfect teeth now deteriorating, thick hair now thinning rapidly and no more than a day or 2 at most relief….An acquaintance opened up a functional medicine practice. Cash only, I found a way. Within a month tests clearly showing my off the charts gluten allergy/sensitivity as well as the depletion of vital nutrients due to leaky gut and intestinal damage. dermatitis herpetiformis was more than likely what I was experiencing with my skin. I was happy. I thought this is easy, eat healthy Whole Foods, follow the diet restrictions and I finally get to heal and feel confident and like myself again very soon! 😔 Supplements are very pricey but I got them and began my healing. Which leads to the other major issue: not working, stay at home Mom of young kids, entirely financially dependent on my man of 7 plus years. He’s never been supportive of anything I’ve ever done or been thru. He controls everything. I’m not given much money ever at a time and when he does leave money it’s only enough to possibly get gas. His excuse is that I’ll spend it on other things. So my “allowance” is inconsistent and has conditions. He withholds money from me as punishment for anything he wants. Since being diagnosed, he’s gained a new control tactic to use as punishment. He now is in control of when I get to eat. He asked for proof of my diagnosis and diet bc he said I made it up just to be able to eat expensive organic foods. Then after I sent him my file from my doctor he then said she wasn’t a real doctor. 😡. I go days upon days starving, sometimes breaking down and eating things I shouldn’t bc I’m so sick then I pay horribly while he gets annoyed and angry bc I’m not keeping up with all the duties I’m supposed to be doing. His abuse turns full on when I’m down and it’s in these desperate times when I need his support and care the most that I’m punished with silence, being starved, ignored, belittled. He will create more of a mess just bc I’m unable to get up and clean so that when I am better, I’m so overwhelmed with chores to catch up that the stress causes me to go right back into a flare from hell and the cycle repeats. I’m punished for being sick. I’m belittled for starving and asking for healthy clean water. I’m purposely left out of his life. He won’t even tell me he’s going to the grocery or to get dinner bc he doesn’t want me to ask him for anything. I have no one. I have nothing. Im not better. My supplements ran out and I desperately need Vitamin D3 and a methylated B complex at the very minimal just to function….he stares at me blankly…no, a slight smirk, no words. He’s happiest when im miserable and I am miserable.  this is so long and im condensing as much as I can but this situation is so complicated and disgusting. And it’s currently my life. The “IT” girl, the healthy, beautiful, perfect skin, perfect teeth, thick and curly locks for days, creative and talented IT girl….now I won’t even leave this house bc Im ashamed of what this has dont to my body, my skin. Im disgusted. The stress is keeping me from healing and I think he knows that and that’s why he continues to keep me in that state. He doesn’t want me confident or successful. He doesn’t want me healed and healthy bc then how would he put the blame of all his problems on me? This journey has been hell and I’ve been in Hell before. I’ve been killed by an ex, I’ve been raped, robbed, held hostage, abused beyond nightmares but the cruelty I’ve experienced from him bc of this disease is the coldest I’ve ever experienced. I’ve wanted to give up. Starving and in tears, desperate…I found a local food pantry in our small town so I reached out just saying I had Celiac and was on hard times. This woman is blessing me daily with prepared gluten free meals, donations, educational info, people who know this disease and how they manage life and the blessings just keep coming. But it’s overwhelming and I feel like I don’t deserve it at all. He just glared and I know he’s going to sabotage it somehow. I don’t even know what to do anymore. I’m so broken and just want peace and healing. 
    • cristiana
      @Colleen H   I am just curious,  when you were tested for coeliac disease, did the doctors find out if you had any deficiencies? Sometimes muscle pain can be caused by certain deficiencies, for example, magnesium, vitamin D, calcium, and potassium.   Might be worth looking into having some more tests.  Pins and needles can be neuropathy, again caused by deficiencies, such as iron and B12,  which can be reversed if these deficiencies are addressed. In the UK where I live we are usually only tested for iron, B12 and vitamin D deficiencies at diagnosis.   I was very iron anemic and supplementation made a big difference.  B12 was low normal, but in other countries the UK's low normal would be considered a deficiency.  My vitamin D was low normal, and I've been supplementing ever since (when I remember to take it!) My pins and needles definitely started to improve when my known deficiencies were addressed.  My nutritionist also gave me a broad spectrum supplement which really helped, because I suspect I wasn't just deficient in what I mention above but in many other vitamins and minerals.  But a word of warning, don't take iron unless blood tests reveal you actually need it, and if you are taking it your levels must be regularly monitored because too much can make you ill.  (And if you are currently taking iron, that might actually be making your stomach sore - it did mine, so my GP changed my iron supplementation to a gentler form, ferrous gluconate). Lastly, have you been trying to take anything to lessen the pain in your gut?  I get a sore stomach periodically, usually when I've had too much rich food, or when I have had to take an aspirin or certain antibiotics, or after glutening.  When this happens, I take for just a few days a small daily dose of OTC omeprazole.  I also follow a reflux or gastritis diet. There are lots online but the common denominators to these diets is you need to cut out caffeine, alcohol, rich, spicy, acidic food etc and eat small regularly spaced meals.   When I get a sore stomach, I also find it helpful to drink lots of water.  I also find hot water with a few slices of ginger very soothing to sip, or camomile tea.  A wedge pillow at night is good for reflux. Also,  best not to eat a meal 2-3 hours before going to bed. If the stomach pain is getting worse, though, it would be wise to see the doctor again. I hope some of this helps. Cristiana    
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

NOTICE: This site places This site places cookies on your device (Cookie settings). on your device. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use, and Privacy Policy.