Vinegar Clarification Please...

[wifeofceliac]

I have been under the impression that one with celiac cannot consume regular vinegar. Apple Cider vinegar is the only acceptable one. I've read postings from members here, and I've read that celiacs have had restaurant dressings and we all know that they have regular vinegar in them. There are special salad dressings available online or in health food stores that make theirs with ACV, but if I'm having my husband whose the celiac avoid vinegar needlessly I'd like to know. Question? Is regular vinegar ok for celiacs?

Thank you...

Dana

[lovegrov]

The only vinegars you need to avoid are malt vinegar and some flavored vinegar (for example Heinz makes an apple cider FLAVORED vinegar that isn't gluten-free -- their regular apple cider vinegar is gluten-free).

Regular or distilled vinegar is gluten-free because of the distilling process (and because hardly any is ever made from wheat anyway).

richard

[tarnalberry]

I agree with Richard. The distillation process does not allow a molecule as large (and hence, as heavy) as gluten to make it to the final stage. Any vinegar that does not have a non-distilled ingredient added after the distillation process is fine for celiacs. Some people may not tolerate vinegar all that well for other reasons (including pH), and some people opt to avoid it anyway, but no, regular distilled vinegar does not contain gluten.

(Besides apple cider vinegar, white and red wine vinegars and real balsamico are not made from grains anyway.)

[wifeofceliac]

Dear Richard and Tiffany:

Thank you soooo much for this clarification. My husband will be extremely relieved, he's been eating dry salads for about 2 years now!

[tarnalberry]

Well, if regular vinegar bothers him (for non-gluten reasons) there always real balsamic, wine vinegar, and cider vinegar (cider vinegar, actually, is very versatile in a number of different types of salad dressings). Additionally, some people are bothered by the acidity in vinegar, and you can try mashing up avocado and using that as a dressing (something I did on my shrimp salad the other night) - tasty. :-)

[Guest ~wAvE WeT sAnD~]

White (distilled )vinegar is the only kind that Celiacs need to avoid. Balsamic, cider, red wine, and rice wine vinegar are gluten-free.

Label Tip from the CSA (Celiac Sprue Association): if you find a product that has only "vinegar" listed, find the manufacturer's location on the label. If the product is made in the US, it is cider vinegar. A lot of European products use white vinegar in their products. Haha I'm not saying it's ok to be xenophobic and avoid foreign products, but this is just a helpful hint that has been tremendously beneficial. If the label says "distilled vinegar", AVOID that particular food/beverage/condiment at all costs.

As I always tell people, check with the manufacturer to make sure it is indeed cider vinegar in the product. Better safe than sorry--I'm not an expert, but I hope this helps!

Sincerely,

[tarnalberry]

though, not all of us believe you have to avoid white (distilled) vinegar.

(did any of you do distillation in chem lab? if you're having trouble believing it, you might try digging out an old chemistry textbook.)

[burdee]

The latest edition of the GlutenFreeLiving Magazine had a great article about "So Many Ingredients, So Much Misunderstanding" which discussed the 'distilled vinegar' debate. Their 'take' was:

"Vinegar should have never been raised as a danger in the first place. Had the person or group that first said vinegar might contain gluten simply looked in the Compliance Policy Guide from the FDA, they would have discovered that 'distilled vinegar' is made from 'acetous fermentation of dilute distilled alcohol' ... Had they contacted a scientist to ask if gluten protein might carry over into the distillate, they would have learned that would not be possible."

During my local celiac support group meeting tonight, several people adamantly complained about vinegar containing gluten. So I read that article. Those same group members accused the writer of the article of making arrogant claims. I'd call that projection. Anyway a lively discussion ensued.

If anyone would like to read the article, it's on page 23 of Vol.9, No.2 of Gluten Free Living Magazine.

BURDEE

[lovegrov]

If you're avoding distilled vinegar at all costs then you're avoiding a lot of good things needlessly. First, every scientist who has weighed in says the distilling makes the product gluten-free even if it comes from wheat. All the major dietician asscoiations agre and so do the major celiac organizations (although CSA sort of qualifies their agreement; but then CSA is wrong about a lot of things). The same is true for liquor. You CAN drink liquor made from wheat.

Second, even if you don't believe that or you want to be VERY cautious, something like 95-98 percent of distilled vinegar made in the U.S. comes from something other than wheat. Call the company and ask the source of the vinegar.

richard

[kabowman]

I agree with everyone - use vinegar since it should be gluten-free except for those noted above - that said, I am one of those people that cannot use any vinegar. I have tried ALL of them (I think). If he has a similar problem, you can squeeze fresh lemons with black pepper on a salad and it gives it a nice zest - and you can order that out.

-Kate

[Guest ~wAvE WeT sAnD~]

Interesting...I was going on the information that I had gathered shortly after my diagnosis. I wish that my Gastro or someone else had informed me that distilled vinegar isn't always distilled with wheat.

Tiffany, I don't have a chemistry backround, so I'll take your word for it

The main reason that I avoid distilled vinegar is because every product that induced my vomiting when I had symptoms had that particular ingredient listed on the label.

Thank you for the info!

[lovegrov]

Some people do just have a problem with distilled vinegar -- or any kind of vinegar.

richard

[veggf]

Hi,

I was told or read (but I can't remeber where) that there had been some cross contamination in some factories after the distilation process and that was why Celiacs shouldn't consume, white distilled vinegar. But as I said I can't remember the source for this info, so interpert it how you wish.

At any rate I think it is great that we can all exchange the info that we know and make our own personal decision.

Take Care!

[Sharon C.]

How come one one of the celiac websites with lists for safe foods and lists for unsafe, have vinegar and vinegar containing products on the unsafe foodlist if it is proven that it's safe? I just don't get it. For unsafe, they had all Claussen brand pickles, they had sour cream on there, they had all these foods that are on other website's safe lists.

It is pretty scary to me not to know what I can and what I can't feed my son, especially because no one in the Celiac community can seem to agree on anything. Also, it makes me wonder why these lists are compiled by regular people who seem to be guessing instead of strong medical facts. I don't know what's right or wrong anymore. With all these lists saying different htings, how do I know what list is RIGHT?

[lovegrov]

I don't know which lists you're looking at. I might be able to help more specifically if you'd tell us which ones you're looking at.

Pretty much everybody who counts now agrees on the distilled vinegar thing. The American and Canadian dietician associations, all of the major celiac organizations (although CSA still sort of gives a little warning), and all the celiac experts I'm aware of. If you're cruising around the Internet there's an awful lot of outdated information out there. Heck, hospitals hand out outdated information. Mine told me to avoid things like guar gum and annatto.

If the web site you're talking about has all sour cream and all vinegar containing products as unsafe, I'd quit using that site. Virtually all (if not all) sour creams are gluten-free and almost no vinegar is even made from wheat.

richard

[Sharon C.]

Hi Richard-

Here's the site: Open Original Shared Link

When you read their lists, it contains a lot of food on the safe lists of other sites. Also, I called Coca Cola today (because of the caramel coloring) and they said their cola is safe according to the codex standard, meaning 2 millionth or something percent which is below the number most celiacs react to, bla bla bla. Between this Codex list, and this other list, and these lists, I don't know what to do.

My son is 8 years old and he has been terribly underweight for years and doctors just kept telling me he was fine. Well, he's not. Now I know he has celiac disease and I need to get some weight on this kid as fast as possible. I want to give him a great variety to eat, but I find myself second guessing many things because some say they are safe and some say they are not. I just don't know. Maybe I should hurry up and order that $30 book available on the association website.

[Sharon C.]

Also, it helps if I add that I am referring to the list of foods that are "no longer on the gluten-free list."

It includes claussen pickles, breakstone's sour cream, etc. If they are wrong on those two items, how can I trust the rest of the list. I am just feeling discocuraged.

[Guest gillian502]

I never eat a single thing without first calling the company directly. If they cannot guarantee me of their product's gluten-free status, I won't eat it or drink it, it's that simple. It's a pain in the butt, but it's what must be done for me to have any peace of mind. I use internet lists and information as a "jumping off" point, in other words, these lists give me some ideas, and I check the products myself from there. Then once I get comfortable with a product, I'll do a re-check every 3 months or so. I'll do that if its vinegar, sour cream, everything, even though I know those are low-risk items.

[lovegrov]

Sharon,

I know this list. This is an EXTREMELY old list. If you look at one of the links its says updated in 2001. In addition, some things were put down as no longer gluten-free out of needless paranoia. Discard this list. Do not use it.

Codex is a European thing, don't worry about it. And don't worry about Coke. It's gluten-free, but the company has recently gotten paranoid and is now giuving out CYA statements.

Unless a new one has just come out, the $30 book from CSA is also a year or more old.

As someone else said, you need to use lists as a guideline and then check things out for yourself. However, here are a couple of other things.

Here's yet another list (or lists). After each item in parentheses you'll find a date. Pay attention to it because that's when the item was last checked. If it says 00/00/0000, that means it hasn't been checked in a long time.

Open Original Shared Link

Also, here is a list of some companies that either clearly list wheat or clearly list ANY gluten in the ingredients. This means you don't have to call or guess. If it isn't listed, it isn't there. There are actually more companies than this but these are the ones I have.

Balance

Baskin Robbins

Ben & Jerry

Betty Crocker

Blue Bunny

Butterball *lists wheat only

Breyers

Campbells

Cascadian Farms

Celestial Seasonings

ConAgra *lists wheat only

Country Crock

Edy's

General Mills

Good Humor

Green Giant

Hellman's

Hershey

Hormel

Hungry Jack

Kozy Shack

Kraft

Martha White

McCormick

Nabisco

Nestle

Old El Paso

Ortega

Pillsbury

Popsicle

Post

Progresso

Russell Stover

Sunny Delight

T Marzetti

Tyson

Unilever

Wishbone

Yoplait

Zatarain's

richard

[Sharon C.]

That DOES help.

I am feeling the need for a notebook here- I have a funny feeling I will be having a big fat notebook stuffed with notes. I need something I can take to the store with me. I'm going to need to organize this.

Thanks again.

[tom]

While we're on the vinegar subject, i've wanted to buy the little jars of marinated artichokes, but they ALL seem to be from Spain and list just "vinegar". Needless to say, i haven't bought them.

The way i figure it, it has 2 strikes against it, one of course that it's not distilled, tho it may be from corn for all we know, but also that it's not North American so the rules and customs are unknown to me. I've seen many times that the most questionable ingreds use the footnote "fine in N.A.". (maltodextrin, dextrose, etc.)

So i know the easy answer is to find one that says distilled but for all i know the precise definition of distilled vinegar over there allows them to mix some undistilled to correct the acidity. But what i suppose would help me most is to hear from someone who knows a brand that they use, while being pretty sensitive to gluten.

Other than that, any and all comments on the above are appreciated, and that includes a good recipe for home-marinating some chokes !

[lovegrov]

"Vinegar" is almost without exception distilled, and when it isn't, it's not made from wheat, or at least that's wat the Vienagr Insttute seems to say. I guess you could call them and ask. Here's the three types of vinegars according to them.

Malt vinegar, made by the two-fold fermentation of barley malt or other cereals where starch has been converted to maltose.

Sugar vinegar, made by the two-fold fermentation of solutions of sugar syrup or molasses.

Spirit or distilled vinegar, made by the acetic fermentation of dilute distilled alcohol.

The only vinegar I ever worry about is malt vinegar.

richard

[tom]

Ya but i'm not sure if the Spanish manufacturers are paying attention to what the Vinegar Institute "seems to say".

The Vinegar Institute is an international trade association representing the vast majority of vinegar manufacturers and bottlers in the United States, as well as producers in Australia, Brazil, Canada, Germany, Italy, Japan, Panama, Sri Lanka, and South Korea.

I'm sure it's probably fine. But the risk/reward ratio prevents me from just trying the artichokes. Sure, i'd like them a lot but the thought of potentially ingesting any gluten, no matter how little, plays on my greatest fear. Even if my pre-gluten-free hell is a thousand steps away, I won't allow a single step in that direction. And i do know that i'm often overly cautious perhaps to the point of complete irrationality. I actually still have to fight off starting to sob at just the thought of any potential digression back to the pre-gluten-free state of mind and body.

Any sensitive celiacs out there eating marinated artichokes that come in the little jars ?

[lovegrov]

I'm not trying to tell you to eat the artichokes or even to claim they are gluten-free. And it really doesn't matter in the least whether Spain listens to the Vinegar Institute. The passage I quoted simply shows the ways vinegar is made. I VERY seriously doubt that Spain has magically come up with a different way of doing it.

richard

[tom]

Oops i didn't mean for mine to have the tone it now looks to have. Sorry.