Antigunals & Probiotics For Candida

[Patty55]

I am wondering if anyone has experienced abdominal pain from either probiotics or natural antifungals. I have been taking probiotics for months and an antifungal, Caprylic Acid, for a week. I have had to cut down and finally quit both because of this pain. I have been trying to follow the SCD diet, and it IS hard.

Just wondering if this could be a die-off sign or just a sign that I can't take as much of either product as I have been. If it continues I shall be forced to face the cruel MD and request an H. Pylori test.

Thanks for your help again!

[MELINE]

When you are treating candida new intolerances usually appear. Are you sure that your pain is from the antifungals and the probiotics? You have to keep a food diary and see what trigers your pain. Maybe you are eating something that doesn't agree with your body.

Of course it could just be dying off...But first you have to make sure that food you are eating is ok with your stomach. Even if it was before you started the diet, now it may not be.

To tell you the truth I did not have abdominal pain at all and I am on my second month. The diet is extremely hard, and now the gluten free diet seems soooooo easy to me....I just wanna go back to that..

[RiceGuy]

I don't think there should be severe pain of any sort. Perhaps a bit of mild discomfort, like feeling a little off, maybe even slight nausea, but this shouldn't last long. What are the other ingredients in the supplements you're taking?

Might there be any newly introduced foods in your diet?

[Patty55]

Thanks for your advice. If anything I am eating less of anything! Just sticking to the same salads and meat for main meals, more veggies and the one or two fruits that are allowed. I have pain when I'm hungry and after I've eaten a meal. Nothing has changed in the way of eating, except that I am doing less of it. I have lost 5 lbs. since starting the diet. I really need to go shopping and find something filling to snack on.

I have skipped both the probiotics and antifungals today. Feeling less occurrences of pain, but things are not as quiet down there as they have been for the past 4 months. i am planning to start back on them but slowly this time. Really don't think this could be an ulcer since it's a bit lower in the abdomen.

Well, thanks for the advice! It helps me know what's normal.

[RiceGuy]

The usual advice when taking caprylic acid or other candida killers is to start slowly. Apparently because the die-off can mean a lot of toxins getting released all at once, and can make you sick until the body disposes of them. So perhaps that's what's happening.

When you start again, please let us know how it goes, either way.

BTW, which fruits are said to be ok while on the diet?

[AliB]

Fruits are ok on the diet in the mostpart although they need to be somewhat restricted if you are battling Candida.

Some find that even on the SCD they have to restrict nut flours, honey and most fruits, and even the yogurt for a while until they can get the Candida more controlled.

Bacteria like L. Acidophilus and L.Bulgaricus etc., are good at helping fight the Candida and I wonder if sometimes there can be a bit of a war going on down there between the baddies and the goodies!

What other ingredients are in the Probios Patty? Is there anything in there like soy for instance, that could be aggravating your stomach?

You might find it useful to post this on the SCD thread in the 'Other Food Intolerances' section as others who are following the diet may well have come across this problem. Although I am on the SCD I have been ok generally. I do get some pain and backache sometimes in my upper middle back and stomach area, but have not necessarily equated it with probios. It usually happens if I have eaten something 'illegal' and I don't always cope with nuts very well.

It could be down to something as simple as the Candida going into a pre-die-off frenzy before it pops its clogs, or you may have something like H. Pylori that is reacting against the supplements.

My H. Pylori test came back negative but apparently the blood test can often throw up a false negative. Apparently the breath test is more accurate. Might ask for that one myself.

I have had a very bloated and sore stomach this evening with backache but have been chucking stuff at myself to try and get the upper hand on the Candida and for a 'clear-out', with magnesium, vitamin C and Goldenseal/Echinacea. It looked as if I was going down with a cold earlier but I feel a bit better now. Stomach is still uncomfortable but the backache is gone.

I think is it difficult to tell sometimes what is triggering what and maybe we just have to hang in there and hope it is just a passing phase.

How long have you been on the SCD, and how bad are your health and digestive issues, Patty?

[Patty55]

The usual advice when taking caprylic acid or other candida killers is to start slowly. Apparently because the die-off can mean a lot of toxins getting released all at once, and can make you sick until the body disposes of them. So perhaps that's what's happening.

When you start again, please let us know how it goes, either way.

BTW, which fruits are said to be ok while on the diet?

Thanks for your concern!

I should have known to start the antifungal slowly but had been on probiotics for so long and so much I just went with the instructions on the caprylic bottle- 3 twice a day. I believe the culprit was the original probiotic I had taken for two yrs once a day. I was waiting for my next delivery of the probiotic I had been on recently, Theralac, and so started right out taking more than usual of the original for a week. They contained:

Bifidobacterium bifidum, lactis, and breve plus Lactobacillus paracasei, plantarum, and salivarius. Also Streptococcus thermophilus. A few of these are in the Theralac too.

I have started back, SLOWLY, on the Theralac and Caprylic because I immediately noticed the old bloating and general activity in my gut yesterday. What a learning process! Also, while I confess I have not purchased the book yet, I did find a short copy of foods allowed on the SCD on the forum which included blueberries, apples and grapefruit. These have not bothered me. I only had pain after lunch and dinner, which were simple meat and veggie dishes.

Anyway, felt great today, so at least I am comfortable with no H. PYlori. Now just nned to figure out how fast to progress on everything else!

[Patty55]

Fruits are ok on the diet in the mostpart although they need to be somewhat restricted if you are battling Candida.

Some find that even on the SCD they have to restrict nut flours, honey and most fruits, and even the yogurt for a while until they can get the Candida more controlled.

Bacteria like L. Acidophilus and L.Bulgaricus etc., are good at helping fight the Candida and I wonder if sometimes there can be a bit of a war going on down there between the baddies and the goodies!

What other ingredients are in the Probios Patty? Is there anything in there like soy for instance, that could be aggravating your stomach?

You might find it useful to post this on the SCD thread in the 'Other Food Intolerances' section as others who are following the diet may well have come across this problem. Although I am on the SCD I have been ok generally. I do get some pain and backache sometimes in my upper middle back and stomach area, but have not necessarily equated it with probios. It usually happens if I have eaten something 'illegal' and I don't always cope with nuts very well.

It could be down to something as simple as the Candida going into a pre-die-off frenzy before it pops its clogs, or you may have something like H. Pylori that is reacting against the supplements.

Ali,

i appreciate your help. It is useful to know that sometimes there is a good process going on (like die-off) or that this particular pain is maybe the result of too much probiotics of one kind or the other. No Soy mentioned on either bottle. I tryto stay clear of soy in everything.

My biggest problem, short of boredom, is vinegar. Funny, no cravings for sugar, but I would kill for some vinegar and am not being totally compliant in this area. Give me mustard, ketshup and more mustard! I have changed my nut selection to almonds and pecans, since I read that cashews are not good. I must really buy this book to eat correctly since I am backtracking somewhere. I have been on a gradually slimmed down version of the SCD for 3 or 4 months. Lately I cut out as much carbs, which only included my corn tortilla and rice, as possible as I was blowing up with everything. This even while increasing my probiotics!

Felt much better today but I will not be taking any chances with increasing carbs, etc. until I see the book.

Not sure what would help others on the SCD thread except to say don't go headlong into products. Until I get the whole diet down I am not much of a resource.

I will keep you updated. Am also looking into finding organic coconut at our local Whole Foods chain. I have an antique yoghurt maker I couldn't bear to part with but have lost the directions so I don't know what or how much of a starter to use. I am looking for that info on the forum. Anything to satisfy my hunger!

My H. Pylori test came back negative but apparently the blood test can often throw up a false negative. Apparently the breath test is more accurate. Might ask for that one myself.

I have had a very bloated and sore stomach this evening with backache but have been chucking stuff at myself to try and get the upper hand on the Candida and for a 'clear-out', with magnesium, vitamin C and Goldenseal/Echinacea. It looked as if I was going down with a cold earlier but I feel a bit better now. Stomach is still uncomfortable but the backache is gone.

I think is it difficult to tell sometimes what is triggering what and maybe we just have to hang in there and hope it is just a passing phase.

How long have you been on the SCD, and how bad are your health and digestive issues, Patty?

[AliB]

I don't know if you have looked at them Patty, but the BTVC website 'breaking the vicious cycle' and 'Pecanbread' site are two of the best resources for SCD information.

The BTVC site has a comprehensive listing of the 'legal/illegal' foods and loads of other stuff. Pecanbread, although aimed mainly for kids with Autism, also carries a lot of info that is useful for anyone with other health issues that are on or wish to try the SCD.

You are very welcome to join the SCD thread on here - we are all muddling through together and it is good to know that you have that support - both moral and practical.

I have also started on the same section, a thread for testimonials and experiences of the SCD. It is encouraging to see how other are, and have progressed on the diet.

[veggienft]

If you want to battle candida stop eating sweets. Fruits are sweets. They taste sweet because they contain fructose, the worst form of sweets, especially for someone with celiac and candidiasis. Most celiacs have dietary fructose malabsorption (DFM).

Fructose is a complex sugar which must be broken into simple sugars. Undigested fructose stays in the small intestine of people with DFM. It grows bacteria and candida fungus.

I can't diagnose your pain, but candidiasis could cause it. If you want to get rid of candida, stop eating fruit.

Simple.

..

[AliB]

Whilst fruit should be limited on a Candida diet, I think we have to be clear about the difference between the fructose in sweets and the fructose in fruit.

Commercial fructose is refined and processed. Fructose in fruit is not. In sweets it is pure refined carbohydrate with no value. In fruit it is accompanied by a host of different elements that support the body, give us energy, cleanse, and feed the cells.

Fruit contains essential nutrients and enzymes that support the digestive process. Fruit is 'live' food. Refined fructose is 'dead' food of no nutritional value to the body. The fiber in fruit helps to prevent the sugars being absorbed too rapidly. The sugars in sweets/candy have no buffers and are absorbed very rapidly into the bloodstream - often much faster than the liver can cope with.

I cannot cope with refined sugars. But I can cope with fruit. Despite the Candida I have more energy when I eat fruit and vegetables than any other food, particularly starches and grains.

When I started on the SCD my digestion was so poor that I could cope with little in the way of fruit, but as my digestive tract has started to heal I can now tolerate quite a few different fruits. I am aiming to eat as much natural unprocessed food as possible.

Green smoothies made with fruit and vegetables are very easily digestible and I can cope with them well. I also have better energy during the time my system is digesting them because it is not under stress and draining the energy from the rest of my body like it does with other foods.