Problems With Processed...grains I Guess?

[IChaseFrisbees]

Has anyone else had problems wit things that have been -I don't know the exact way to say it- refined or something? Like, pasta made from rice hits my digestive system just like gluten does, and yesterday I ate some corn tortillas and completely safe corn tortilla chips and today I'm feeling the effects (there was little to no possibility of CC, i prepared all my meals myself yesterday, avoided wooden spoons and the whole deal.)

Could it be that something about the way rice is turned into noodles and corn is turned into tortillas makes it set my stomach off? Or what else could it be? My test results for other food allergies all came back negative, but I went off dairy when it seemed to be problematic, and I don't have any troubles eating plain rice, nor did I have troubles eating rice bread...

[dilettantesteph]

Sometimes during the grinding of the flour, or the forming of the noodles, or the packaging in the factory cross contamination can occur. Sometimes the package has marked on it: processed in a facility that also processes wheat. That warning is voluntary though, and there are times as with Lundberg chips where it is not marked on the package but on the web site.

[ang1e0251]

That sounds right to me. How long have you been gluten-free? I'm like you. My tortillas are good but the pasta always sits heavy. I don't remember reading it was from a mixed facilty but it could be. I've never had a problem with chips but others on the forum have. Have you tried different brands of pasta and reacted to it?

[lbd]

I found this interesting report on transglutaminase on Wikipedia and some other sources. As we know, one of the "look-fors" with gluten intolerance is antibodies to tissue transglutaminase. Apparently some manufacturers use transglutaminase to make foods stick together. I wonder if manufacturers of gluten-free pastas and other foods that need to be "stuck together" because they are lacking gluten, all use transglutaminase. Apparently it is not required to be listed as an ingredient. Food for thought:

Antibodies to tissue transglutaminase are found in coeliac disease and may play a role in the small bowel damage in response to dietary gliadin that characterises this condition.[3] In the related condition dermatitis herpetiformis, in which small bowel changes are often found and which responds to dietary exclusion of gliadin-containing wheat products, epidermal transglutaminase is the predominant autoantigen.[5]

Recent research indicates that sufferers from neurological diseases like Huntington's,[6] and Parkinson's[7] may have unusually high levels of one type of transglutaminase, tissue transglutaminase. It is hypothesized that tissue transglutaminase may be involved in the formation of the protein aggregates that causes Huntington's disease, although it is most likely not required.[8][3]

[edit]Industrial applications

Industrial transglutaminase is produced by Streptomyces mobaraensis fermentation in commercial quantities and is used in a variety of processes, including the production of processed meat and fish products. It can be used as a binding agent to improve the texture of protein-rich foods such as surimi or ham.[9]

Transglutaminase can be used in these applications:[citation needed]

Binding small chunks of meats into a big one ("portion control"), such as in sausages, hot dogs, restructured steaks

Improving the texture of low-grade meat such as so-called "PSE meat" (pale, soft, and exudative meat, whose characteristics are attributed to stress and a rapid postmortem pH decline)

Making milk and yogurt creamier

Making noodles firmer

Besides these mainstream uses, transglutaminase has been used to create some unusual foods. British chef Heston Blumenthal is credited with the introduction of "meat glue" into modern cooking. Wylie Dufresne, chef of New York's avant-garde restaurant wd~50, was introduced to transglutaminase by Blumenthal, and invented a "pasta" made by over 95% shrimps thanks to transglutaminase.[10]

[IChaseFrisbees]

Yeah, I've reacted to several brands of rice pasta.

That's very interesting about the transglutaminase, because a doctor told me to start taking that for intestinal health...

I just can't figure this out. What should I go off? Should I just abandon dairy, soy and corn? Are those the most likely foods to be offensive in addition to gluten?

[ang1e0251]

I think you have to take note of what doesn't sit well and avoid it. As you pointed out, rice is good, rice pasta isn't. And that's just how it is. If you surrender the need to know the "why" of it every time, you can ease a lot of stress over your food. I can't eat any fresh dairy yet I'm still ok with aged cheeses and a little butter. I used to be able to eat yogurt, but not now. I can't answer why corn tortillas sit well but corn pasta doesn't want to digest well. I like to know the why of things and I will continue research but I decided I wouldn't let myself obsess over it.

It is tempting to try and know the all of celiac disease. After all, many of us diagnosed ourselves with little or no help. It makes you think you can find the answer to anything. For me, that is just a burden. I have enough on my plate right now. I made a committment to myself to live the celiac disease life with as little stress as possible for now. In time, if my situation changes and I feel the freedom to look more extensively into the question of why and what, then I will. But till then, it's OK if I don't always know why.

Give yourself a break. Eat what gives you the good gut feeling, aviod what doesn't.

[IChaseFrisbees]

*Sigh* I guess you're right I'm frustrated endlessly by feeling bad without knowing why (before the diagnosis I was extremely depressed/furious at life because I thought I would never find out what was wrong with me) but I guess it'll take some of the stress out of my life to just keep a food diary and find out what works and what doesn't.

Thanks for the advice, that's very helpful.

[IChaseFrisbees]

Hey everybody, so a few more related questions.

1 If you have celiac, are you also supposed to avoid transglutaminase?

2 Eating gluten when you have a problem with it (such as before you're diagnosed) can lead to other food intolerances right? The most common ones being dairy, soy, corn, nightshades (correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.) Is there a way to find out what these side effects are? For instance, is there a test that will tell me I'm having problems with corn right now, even if I didn't used to? Would such a test be accurate?

3 Eating gluten stops your recovery for a while. Does eating dairy/corn/soy/anything else you might have developed a problem with damage your stomach like gluten does, or do you just get bad digestive symptoms? In other words will eating dairy right now stop me from recovering/continue to damage my stomach, ir will it just be uncomfortable?

[mftnchn]

There may be different opinions on these questions.

My allergist has told me that the most accurate allergy testing is elimination diet. Use the other testing as a guide only. Blood testing, skin testing, energetic testing are some of the options available. And yes the food intolerances can shift all the time. If you are one that develops intolerances easily, following a rotation diet is best.

I don't know about the transglutaminase.

There's another issue with grains and other starches. Villi damage may be significant enough that you are not making enzymes to digest carbs. This happened to me. I wasn't healing significantly on gluten-free plus SF (CF for 10 months too), but started making clear progress on the specific carbohydrate diet. I would have these ups and downs all the time, and couldn't clearly pinpoint specific foods. The doctor put me on it when fecal testing (twice) showed highly elevated sugar. Sugar and starch should be broken down to monosaccharide and absorbed high in the small intestine. So it was clear this process was not happening for me.

The SCD could also work pretty well for an elimination diet with a little modification.

[Amber M]

I think you have to take note of what doesn't sit well and avoid it. As you pointed out, rice is good, rice pasta isn't. And that's just how it is. If you surrender the need to know the "why" of it every time, you can ease a lot of stress over your food. I can't eat any fresh dairy yet I'm still ok with aged cheeses and a little butter. I used to be able to eat yogurt, but not now. I can't answer why corn tortillas sit well but corn pasta doesn't want to digest well. I like to know the why of things and I will continue research but I decided I wouldn't let myself obsess over it.

It is tempting to try and know the all of celiac disease. After all, many of us diagnosed ourselves with little or no help. It makes you think you can find the answer to anything. For me, that is just a burden. I have enough on my plate right now. I made a committment to myself to live the celiac disease life with as little stress as possible for now. In time, if my situation changes and I feel the freedom to look more extensively into the question of why and what, then I will. But till then, it's OK if I don't always know why.

Give yourself a break. Eat what gives you the good gut feeling, aviod what doesn't.

Angle, that was a really good answer. I needed to hear that! I have beat my brains (foggy) out trying to know "the all". I have done so much research that my ignorant doctors listen to me because they are so uninformed on this condition....but, I am so tired of it! I am going to heed your advice and just eat what sets well. I have also had great problems with other grains and many other things including processed gluten free meat (spam). It's just that when I feel the gluten symptoms when I know I haven't eaten gluten, I get so confused. It's just part of the learning about all of this on my own except for all of you helping. I think I will give myself a break and just eat whole foods all prepared by me! Thanks...

[Nancym]

My body doesn't really like grains either. I just avoid them.

[julirama723]

I think it's a matter of trial-and-elimination. You could start from scratch and do an elimination diet or the SCD, or just experiment with your foods for a while.

I can't eat corn products at all--I get the same symptoms as gluten gives me! It doesn't matter if it's corn chips, corn tortillas, cornmeal, etc. I get the same bloating, gas, cramping, and bathroom visits.

I also discovered that I'm lactose intolerant, and I CERTAINLY can't handle most fresh dairy (1 tbsp of sour cream did me in for the night, it was AWFUL) but seem to be able to tolerate small amounts of butter and cream.

I can't eat whole grain rice--it goes through me like glass and comes out totally undigested. For whatever reason, I seem to be able to tolerate rice flour, which was in the baking mix I used for Christmas cookies. Those gave me no problems whatsoever.

I'm still discovering new foods that I can't tolerate--I just figured out that I can't eat sweet potatoes! Prior to going gluten-free, I was aware of NONE of these problems. I think it's because the gluten was so LOUD, I couldn't "hear" any of these other foods above the deafening noise.