Parasites

[AliB]

The thing is that a stool sample may be able to identify intestinal parasites if you are fortunate to be able to get that done and you happen to have passed any in the stool samples that are provided.

The greater problem arises when the parasites are living elsewhere in the body. If they are not in the intestines then there is unlikely to be any evidence of them in the stools. A blood test may pick up parasites in the blood, but if they are in the heart, or the lungs, or the liver, pancreas, gall-bladder, kidneys, bladder, joints, eyes, ears or even the brain, or anywhere else, then testing is highly unlikely to detect them.

The only possible indicator in some people may be if their Eosinophil levels are elevated, but again I suspect it all depends on where they are and what effect the little beggars are having on the body. If they are managing to live fairly quietly without causing too much in the way of inflammation then they could be there for years and we would never know!

By absorbing our vital nutrients and causing different forms of malabsorption as well as excreting toxins that can also be problematic they can affect us in many different ways - we just may be totally unaware that it is parasites that are behind it all.

I was thinking about Sir Steve Redgrave the UK Olympic rower. This fit, strong man suddenly developed Diabetes out of nowhere. Why the heck would that happen? Just maybe somewhere on his travels he picked up a parasite that has affected his Pancreas which has never been picked up or even investigated. Only a theory, but not impossible.

[Jestgar]

The greater problem arises when the parasites are living elsewhere in the body.

I would say the greatest problem is assuming you have a parasite because you "feel funny" and treating yourself haphazardly with stuff you get from the internet.

[Ms Jan]

Hi Jestgar,

I respect your position, even if I may respectfully disagree as to the overall question of how responsibly an individual can carry out self-diagnosis and self treatment as long as it is based on thorough research and analysis (with the ignorance and/or irresponsibility of quite some of the MD's, specialists and even some Med Professors as well as herbalists etc., I have encountered in my medical history, I'll definately never again put my life & health in other people's hands no matter how titled they may be without at least having my own brains in it too). And personally I do consider the internet a great source, as long as one knows how to double-check and verify information and how to weed out all the nonsense and commercial tricksters .... Most serious medical professionals have sites on the web too ...

Anyhow, my question is why this issue is so particularly pertinent for you and the other moderators when it comes to parasites?

I mean, sharing of information as concerns symptoms, possible remedies and loads of different herbs, diets and supplements take place within a lot of the other subject areas of this forum, also as concerns serious diseases such as candida, leaky gut, fibrom., arthritis, and even as concerns crippling mental diseases like depression, neuroticism, autism, paranoia etc. Are there any reasons - or previous bad experiences - why you feel particularly strongly about self treatment of parasites ?

Or is there something I have overlooked ...?

Jan

[Mtndog]

Ali- I'm sorry to hear about the financial/health position you and your husband are in. That is , I'm sure, incredibly difficult. What about your friend that became a homeopath?

You may have them. It is not an official accreditation, but rather an abbreviation for "Lyme Literate Medical Doctor." It refers to an accredited Medical Doctor who views Lyme Disease outside the parameters accepted by many of their colleagues in the medical profession. The term is usually used by patients with Lyme disease.

Thanks Peter! There are Lyme Literate doctors in the UK.

To the person who has something wiggling in your belly you should go asap to a medical doctor and take a stool sample so they can identify the beastie and then take the meds the doctor recommends to kill it. If you can feel it that means its HUGE!! and you probably have many of them in there which can ball up together and block off your intestines. No amount of herbs in the world can kill them for good. Only meds like Vermox and Flagyll and some others. I have taken the last two meds when I got hookworms and girhdia from my little poodle. My doctor said because I am a celiac I have a lowered immunity to fighting off parasites so this will be something I have to watch for the rest of my life. I was so sick with my infestation I cant imagine not doing what it takes to get rid of them but that is me I guess. Tapeworm larvae can get into your brain and other organs if left untreated and then some of them still might not die and have to be surgically removed. Agggg could you imagine. Please see a regular doctor and tell them to treat you. We have enough issues absorbing nutrition from food due to damage done by Celia than to let some worm or parasite come and take the rest of it from us. Dont you think?

I think this is GOOD advice!

[lizard00]

I think the problem when you start self-diagnosing parasites, specifically, is that you start using things that could potentially be dangerous to your body. It's one thing to tell someone to try the gluten-free diet, that won't hurt you in any way. People choose to not eat foods for various reasons. Different vitamins aren't necessarily going to hurt you, like b vitamins. Whatever your body doesn't use, it will pass through urine.

Herbs are not "baddies", but they are like any other medication. One shouldn't just take them. Herbs can be dangerous if not used properly, they are very potent substances. If there's a natural remedy, believe me, I'm all for it. BUT, if I buy them, I consult with the ND who sells them. Often, what she tells me is not in sync with what I've read.

The problem with medicine and the internet is that many things share the same symptoms. I can't tell you how many things I could've had based on my symptoms, and how many things I believed I had, including Lyme. I'm glad I didn't self treat. Sometimes, our accessiblity to so many things through the internet can be bad.

So, to answer the question: As mods, it's important because we want to make sure that the board's integrity remains. Diagnosing and self-diagnosing over the internet is a dangerous game. While advice is given regarding supplements and various things, it is generally coupled with "see your doctor". Many of us have been failed by medicine, but that doesn't mean I can shut it out. I know my body better than any doctor, but they have the ability to run tests that look inside my body, and this paints the whole picture.

[Jestgar]

I mean, sharing of information as concerns symptoms, possible remedies and loads of different herbs, diets and supplements take place within a lot of the other subject areas of this forum, also as concerns serious diseases such as candida, leaky gut, fibrom., arthritis, and even as concerns crippling mental diseases like depression, neuroticism, autism, paranoia etc. Are there any reasons - or previous bad experiences - why you feel particularly strongly about self treatment of parasites ?

Lizard put it very well.

There are a great many internet sites promoting expensive, (at best) worthless,or (at worst) dangerous products. Just because something isn't regulated doesn't mean it can't cause you harm.

[Ms Jan]

Thanks Lizard00,

I do agree that self diagnosis according to standard internet lists is an absolute no-go, and I also agree with regard to most of your other observations. Just felt that more dilligence was being applied on this subject rather than on other ones. But never mind, this is such a great board probably exactly because of this dilligence - so as long as our experiences can be shared, I'll be glad to do so extra cautiously.

And thanks Purple, for the links - they tally much with what else I know and have read on the subject. I'll return with a few other links when I have a little more time.

Jan

[Ms Jan]

How long do you guys wait in between taking the antifungals and probiotics? I have been drinking about 1/4 tsp of baking soda w/a pinch of salt in about 5 oz of water to help with alkalizing - every now and then i'll feel acidic (burning bum when pass gas and have bm) and i read on pecanbread that this helps to alkalize and it seems to be helping. Do parasites thrive on an acidic environment?

I haven't taken any medication for years - except antibiotics once for an infection - so I don't know about interactions with Grape fruit seed extracts. If there's any chance of an interaction it probably should be checked with the doctor and/or the provider of your medicine.

I start every day with ten drops of GSE in a glass of water. I also blend a peeled grapefruit with water, sometimes with a cucumber in it, and drink it as a pulpy juice - but this is more something I like as refreshment and cleansing rather than necessarily a part of the SCD for me.

Raw garlic has become almost a must for me - good I work at home! I simply eat it in finely chopped spoon fulls that I swallow with lots of water. And if sometimes it feels a little to strong, I take a spoon full of oil (coconut, virgin olive, or flaxseed). That helps with the smell as well.

Generally I take the antifungals/ antiparasitics before meals and the probiotics about an hour after the meal. But I'm not as careful with this as I maybe should be. I haven't felt too much of a difference in effect whichever way I do it, so I'm not quite sure what would work best. And I do believe that it might be an individual thing to work out depending on how your system reacts.

Jan

[Ms Jan]

I took the Goldenseal and Wormwood preps for about 10 days and have now switched to another prep containing black walnut and some Milk thistle capsules so am just monitoring to see if they make any difference. I feel that, although there seems to be some improvement, there is still more to come. I might just switch between the two lots for a few weeks and hopefully the two-pronged approach will do the trick.

Has anyone tried any drug treatments with any success? I would not discount them out of hand - I am just concerned about the distinct likelihood of drug resistance. Resistance is a real problem, as the issues with antibiotics has demonstrated and according to different reports it seems that parasitic resistance to drugs is on the increase too.

Hi Ali,

If you switch between two groups of herbs, make sure that there are equally strongly anti-parasitics in both - so that no eggs that hatch under a 'less strong regime' can survive. I switch around a bit with my own herbs, but mostly as concerns the dosage, and just depending on how my stomach sensitivity is.

I eventually got rid of the larva migrans I had in the leg about seven years ago with conventional drugs. However, first the Skin specialist who had dx it - (after five different doctors and lots of tests for two years had yielded no clues as to what it was making those strange patterns and itching like hell!!) - used a treatment of 'freeze burning' the skin, something that left the skin scarred but didn't kill the worm, even though she did two rounds of the treatment !

Then, through professionel medical internet sites I myself identified the drug (which I can't remember the name of just now), which was then prescribed to me by a tropical doctor. He kept insisting that the larva could only live for six months in a human, although I could show my records that it had been there for two years!! Anyhow, the first batch of drugs I took lowered the activity, but didn't stop it. So I had to have a second round that seemed to take care of it. The dr insisted that nothing would be left of it after this. Yet, from time to time I do get the same stingy itchy activity in the area, without the strong patterns of tracks though. But this activity has now been gone since a few days after I started my parasite regimen, so perhaps some little parasite was really left living in there.

I would have no problem doing a reliabe drug cure either. Would in fact love the simplicity and strength of it ... But since my MD has no idea what to do with my symptoms - not even the celiac that was dx by an american health practitioner - I think this time I'll try to manage with the herbs, and then if they don't work, I might get up my courage to dealing with the Medical system again.

I got diflucan and nystatin prescribed by an immunologist against candida at some point, and they worked perfectly, but the candida came back soon after I stopped taking the drugs - and the second time around their effect was much reduced. Which is why I turned to using natural cures against candida - and now against parasites.

Anyone having had any succesful or unsuccesful experiences with treatments, natural or drugs, against parasites?

Jan

[Scott Adams]

Hello Everyone,

I must point out that many experts do not recommend the use of Goldenseal and other herbs that boost the immune system in those who have autoimmune diseases, and this includes those with celiac disease. The reason for this is that those with autoimmune diseases tend to have overactive immune systems already, and stimulating them further could have unintended consequences. I've even seen warnings on supplements, for example melatonin, to this effect. I just thought I'd let you know as some of the supplements that you mention in this thread are in that category.

Take care,

Scott

[Lisa]

Looking for information on Melatonin, I came accross this information that I thought was interesting.

Open Original Shared Link

[purple]

Hello Everyone,

I must point out that many experts do not recommend the use of Goldenseal and other herbs that boost the immune system in those who have autoimmune diseases, and this includes those with celiac disease. The reason for this is that those with autoimmune diseases tend to have overactive immune systems already, and stimulating them further could have unintended consequences. I've even seen warnings on supplements, for example melatonin, to this effect. I just thought I'd let you know as some of the supplements that you mention in this thread are in that category.

Take care,

Scott

Thanks for watching out for us, we all appreciate it!

[ginnybean32]

Anyone having had any succesful or unsuccesful experiences with treatments, natural or drugs, against parasites?

Jan

[AliB]

Thanks Ginny for your input. I don't think too many of us are 'taken in' by Doctors but it is good to get feedback from someone 'in the hub' as it were.

One of 'Jestgar's' tag lines says "But then, in all honesty, if scientists don't play god, who will?" (God himself, the ultimate scientist???)

I would kind of reword that to a certain extent to "But then, in all honesty, if doctors can't help me, who can"?

When there are no tests available and no one else to trust then trial and error sometimes has to be the only way. If I don't keep trying to get better I might as well slit my wrists and be done with it.

It was me who discovered the gluten-intolerance. It was me who asked for the Celiac tests. It was me who realised I had Diabetes. It is me who, through a process of elimination and careful study has come to the realisation that parasites are very likely behind my health issues.

It was a Doctor who told me 30 years ago that there was nothing wrong with me I was just 'lazy'. It was a Doctor who gave me the wrong diabetic medication that made me rapidly gain the 35lbs I had tried so hard to lose. It was a Doctor who gave me Byetta which proved to be a load of rubbish and ruined my digestion big-time. It is Doctors who have absolutely no idea why I am fatigued all the time and cannot lose weight, or digest my food properly, or why I get this constant background thumping through my body, or why I am plagued with Candida (if they even recognised it), or why my hair is falling out everywhere (all of which can be explained by parasite - particularly Liver Fluke - activity). It was years-worth of Doctors who had plenty of opportunities to pick up my Mum's Celiac Disease but didn't do so until it was way too late and her body had fallen apart. It is Doctors who can barely give me five minutes of their time and who have the inability to do anything other than shove yet another useless drug at me.

Anyone can shout about the 'harm' that herbs can do - but somehow the real harm that drugs are doing every minute of every hour of every day is somehow swept under the carpet. That rotten, stinking 'expert' Doctor-prescribed Byetta did me far more harm than any herb I have ever 'self-medicated'!

Aspirin makes my stomach bleed. A friend of ours lost his memory and nearly died because of Statins. Furosemide gave my Mum kidney failure. The wrong insulin prescription killed her. Another friend is under Methotrexate for her Rheumatoid Arthritis with the very real threat of Cancer as a 'side-effect' hanging over her head. A Doctor admitted 'off the record' to another friend that it was the Arthritis medication that actually caused her Mum's death. Another friend has no immune system due to having been given antibiotics for 14 months (14 months!!!) when she was younger and is now susceptible to virtually everything she comes in contact with - it has also led to her having cancer in her mouth.

Whilst I know of many people who have been adversely affected by drugs, I do not know of one person who has been adversely affected by herbs.

Please stop banging away about the dangers of herbs. Enough now.

Can we just get back to the thread?

[AliB]

Jan - it is interesting that having stopped the Wormwood and Goldenseal, the whole body banging/thumping and stressed digestion thing I get has come back.

For a week it was hardly noticeable but I can feel it banging away now as I sit at the Computer. I need to get to bed in a minute (it's gone 1am) and I just know it is going to keep me awake. The fact that it improved so radically really has to suggest to me that I was on the right track. Nothing else has made that kind of difference. The diet has helped with a lot of things but that wasn't one of them, neither has the addition of various supplements I have tried made any impression on it.

The 'pins and needles' I kept getting in my left hand/arm was much better too - the little beggars are probably depleting my body of something necessary. The trouble with supplementation is that, as Natasha Campbell-McBride points out, if the problem really is caused by parasites and they are consuming vital nutrients then adding supplements to the diet only serves to make them stronger.

I picked up on some posts somewhere where quite a few were commenting that although they felt better initially when supplementing, the benefits didn't last, and then they would have to keep upping the dose regularly for it to have any effect. That was so Parasite driven. They were just feeding the little beggars!

Far better to kill them - then we would not need the supplements!

With the change of remedies I also have felt less 'movement' and that suggests that it may be prudent for me to get back on the Wormwood.

I am seriously thinking of getting some Humaworm sent over from the States. It seems to have a good track record. The course is a month long but they seem to feel that a long lower-level dosage is more effective than a short higher dose which may well be true.

[AliB]

Ali- I'm sorry to hear about the financial/health position you and your husband are in. That is , I'm sure, incredibly difficult. What about your friend that became a homeopath?

I don't have a clue where she is Beverly or whether she is even still practicing. I did an internet search for her some months back but couldn't find her. She may have remarried (she was single at the time) - I mean I am going back now well over 20 years and she was older than me so might have even retired. Or died.

Terry has not worked since 10th August 1983. Well, not for an employer although he has done home-based therapeutic work. He went to get up one Saturday morning to do some overtime (he was chief supervisor in a specialist furniture-making factory) and his back gave out. He was 41. Our daughter was 3, our son 8 months. He has been struggling with Osteo-arthritis, Spondylosis, Scoliosis, Fibromyalgia and Sciatica ever since.

So whilst we probably need health professionals more than many we can afford them less than most and the best the NHS can offer is free Ibruprofen tablets for him and insulin for me.

But we get by. Certainly going gluten-free has helped us both. He is a lot happier and the brain-fog is a thing of the past - as generally is the extreme irritability and frustration. I don't constantly have to give him directions when he is driving any more (or be riddled with anxiety) - he knows where he is going and his concentration is much improved. It's great!

But - if I am right about the parasites then it is almost certain that Terry would have them too. They may affect him differently to me but they would undoubtedly be there. I suspect that our kids would also be afflicted. They do say when kids have pinworms that the whole family needs to be treated. Why should any other parasites be any different? Pinworms give you clues of their presence - unfortunately many others are far more insidious.

[Jestgar]

Please stop banging away about the dangers of herbs. Enough now.

Actually the point is not the danger of herbs. The point is the danger of self diagnoses followed by self medication.

[purple]

Funny how wormwood means bitterness in Greek and poisonous or accursed in Hebrew

Reminds me of bitter herbs to give poison to those accursed beasties!

[Ms Jan]

Thanks Scott and Momma Goose for the interesting info.

And thanks to Ginny for an insider's view.

Here's a list of anti-parasitic herbs describing their effects/precautions (skip the commercials! - and do double-check everything):

Open Original Shared Link

Yes, Ali it's probably a good idea to stick with the wormwood for an extended period of time. Whatever I read, a long winded treatment is required when it comes to herbal treatment of systemic parasites. Interesting with the thumping gone, and then coming back. Sounds like you're definately on to something.

Humaworm sounds interesting indeed, I also heard about it from various sources. But I think for now I'll stick to the Paratrex I've started out with. It's an American product and recommended by the Finchley Clinic (UK) from where I've gotten other very useful products. And the combination of herbs seem to function well with my body. The funny welts I get have returned since I upped my dosage, but they are different now. Whereas they used to come out in patches of long rather wide lines in one area of the body at a time, now they come in numerous patches in different spots, with shorter and thinner lines. They still itch terribly, and still stay for a couple of hours, then disappear (which is why it's impossible to make a doctor's appointment to show them - but maybe I'll see if I can take a photo of them one day). I wonder if it isn't the treatment causing younger or smaller parasites out of the organs into the skin? Well, hopefully they'll all be dead by the time I'm through.

I have been kind of hyperactive lately, so considering Scott's comment on the Golden seal, I think I'll try to switch it with olive leaf extract, that I know my body tolerates well.

Yesterday, I suddenly realized that the larva migrans I had, first appeared in 2001, and was finally cured with drugs in the autumn of 2003 - and then I first fell sick with my debilitating headaches/vomiting in January 2004. And as part of the wrong treatment, I had gotten very strong cortizone creams for extended periods of time (totally ruins the skin!) - and which the tropical specialist later explained to me makes the larva explode in proliferations. He did guarantee me that it couldn't have gone beyond the skin and entered my blood/organs though, but so did he wrongly insist it could only live for 6 mhts. So wow, I now wonder if this could be what's behind the sudden break down of my system - I mean I was always fragile, but that total breakdown happened in January 2004. Think I must try to find out if any tests can be done to check this possibility ...

Jan

[AliB]

Funny how wormwood means bitterness in Greek and poisonous or accursed in Hebrew

Reminds me of bitter herbs to give poison to those accursed beasties!

As one of the bitterest substances known to Man it was used several times in the Bible in a figurative sense to represent the bitter effects of not following God's advice.

I am just glad that we get it in capsule form and that my stomach can't taste it! Isn't it amazing that my stomach has such a problem dealing with lovely tasty sweet sugary things yet can take the bitterest of stuff without batting an 'eyelid'!

[Ms Jan]

Yes, wormwood is a great bitter

Here are links to the US National Institute of Health:

Open Original Shared Link

and the Center for Diseases Control, Parasitic diseases department (also under the US Health Department):

Open Original Shared Link

On both you can search for studies, recommendations and Medical Journal Articles about parasites. Very specialized, but reliable 'conventional' information.

btw, Ali I think you're right about the parasites eating the vitamin supplements. When I was put on my first candida treatment by an immunologist, he told me to wait with the vitamin supplement that he also gave me, until one month into the candida treatment, since otherwise the candida would just grow stronger on the vit's. Guess the same thing would apply to parasites ...

Jan

[AliB]

.....and as part of the wrong treatment, I had gotten very strong cortizone creams for extended periods of time (totally ruins the skin!) - and which the tropical specialist later explained to me makes the larva explode in proliferations.

Jan

I wonder if the Byetta had the same effect for me. One of the prominent side-effects of taking it is stomach and digestive issues and that led to my digestion collapsing completely. Perhaps the Byetta also encourages parasites.....

That is the big problem with a lot of drugs - whilst the scientists may have some idea of why they help certain diseases (unfortunately they don't always even know that, only that it does work!), they rarely know what other effects these things are having elsewhere in the body.

[purple]

Well I started the attack 2 days ago. I saw a little non-wiggly beastie today, IDK about yesterday. I want to get a handle on this before they do damage.

Symptoms noticed-some tummy bubblies and then gas, noticed for 2 weeks.

I want to make that SCD yogurt as soon as I can get the stuff, our store is over an hour away so I only do shopping about every 3 weeks. My dd is bringing me Nancy's yogurt today (I am on page 34/106 of the SCD thread...yay!)

My sis has the foul breath and coated tongue. So she's next to battle, but she lives 2 hours from town. We are not celiac but my kids are gluten intolerant, maybe we are too..IDK.

Thanks for everyones input on here and on SCD thread!

What does everyone use for deworming their pets at home rather than the vet? W-mart stuff ok??

[Lisa]

Symptoms noticed-some tummy bubblies and then gas, noticed for 2 weeks.

Purple,

Are these the symptoms which you concluded were caused by parasites?

[purple]

Purple,

Are these the symptoms which you concluded were caused by parasites?

Yes, I never had the gassiness before plus passing the beasties. But I am not reasoning out gluten. No other symptoms...yet.

Forgot one...occasional tickly nose, sometimes a drip but only in my left nostril...weird. Celiac does not run in our family as far as I know. My side has always been extremely healthy. One grandpa and my dad died early from alcoholism. And 2 grandmas and my grandpa lived into their 90's in great health. Mom is in great health at 73.

I have been learning and watching. Everyones posts are very helpful. Thanks for your recent post about the herbs, I have always wanted a copy of that info.