Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)

[pele]

Hi Guys,

I heard the same thing abotu the Welches grape juice on the Yahoo group-- The reply was as follows:

Thats what was posted back... What do we think?? Safe or not safe?

I don't know but I do know I had a bad reaction last summer to citric acid. I suspect my recent setback was due to lactic acid in the green olives. So if Welchs contains acid, it may be bothering me. I have already quit drinking it but plan to do a grape juice "challenge" next week. This is probably one of those things that depends on the individual.

I was more concerned about the concentrate because depending on the processing used, couldn't the fructose undergo some unpleasant changes?

All of this processing stuff disturbs me. I would rather drink water.

[pele]

Now that I am feeling better, I looked up lactic acid on the www and discovered that lactic acid used in food can be made from wheat. The green olives I ate were in a jar with an old label that had no allergy info. So I think I got glutened. Geesh.

I also have not had any Welch's Grape Juice in two days and low and behold, my mouth is no longer dry all evening. Hmm.

[pele]

Fresh greens are growing again. Tonight for dinner I had a mix of dandelion greens, kale and chard from the garden.

[AliB]

Fresh greens from your garden - yum. I really have to try and find some way to get some steps in so we can get up on top of the bank in our garden and make a veg patch up there somehow. It is such a waste of good ground.

You may well be right about the lactic, but it could perhaps also be because the olives were old and had maybe gone a bit rancid?

I was reading that one reason why olive oil is good is because it contains lipase which makes it more easily digestible (unless it is heated). None of the clear veg oils have that benefit.

I have started appraising the enzyme value of everything I eat now!

[rinne]

Fresh greens, yum. I love beet greens with garlic.

.....

I also have not had any Welch's Grape Juice in two days and low and behold, my mouth is no longer dry all evening. Hmm.

I wonder if it could be sulfites causing the dry mouth, grapes do get sprayed quite a lot with them I think.

I'm a water person myself, other than tea or coffee. I've never gotten into juice or pop.

[pele]

You may well be right about the lactic, but it could perhaps also be because the olives were old and had maybe gone a bit rancid?

I have started appraising the enzyme value of everything I eat now!

The jar was unopened and the olives were delicious, so I don't think they were spoiled. And I had gut inflammation that lasted for 10 days.

Do we need to eat raw foods to get enzymes?

[GermanMia]

Yes, we do; raw or fermented, but not cooked - more than 42 degrees Celsius and the enzymes are dead, I'm afraid.

[AliB]

We talk about certain foods being 'dead' or 'live' - that is in terms of their enzyme capacity. Even some of the raw foods may not have too much in the way of enzymes, especially if they have been produced through intensive farming on poor soil.

You are so fortunate to have access to good home-grown stuff. But anything live is better for us than anything 'dead'. Interestingly I soaked some almonds overnight and have been munching on those and although I can tolerate them to a certain extent when cooked, my digestion is much happier with them soaked as the sprouting process is started and the enzymes are 'fired up'!

I am just plodding my way through Sally Fallon's 'Nourishing Traditions' - it is amazing the amount of fermented food that our forbears used to eat, but which we have forgotten about.

I have just posted on another thread about carbs. I always felt that we don't need carbs in order to survive, and to a certain extent that is true - I would always pull up the example of the Inuit who eat very little if any carbs, yet are fit as a fiddle. What I hadn't twigged until now is that much of the food they eat is extremely enzyme-rich. Their putrid fermented fish and whale-meat is a staple part of their diet and it is that that gives them the energy and strength, and their bodies the ability to really utilise the nutrients they get from the food.

I am sitting here swigging water from a plastic bottle and thinking, why does it make my stomach feel yukky? Because, of course, it is dead. It probably has been filtered and rendered devoid of any organisms and enzymes - otherwise it would turn into algae soup. It is 'pure' water. So pure, there is little in it of benefit to my body apart from its hydratory qualities.

We are weak because we are lacking those little beauties. Amazing isn't it, with all the modern knowledge and understanding and technology that we have at our disposal, we have actually been going backwards! The less enzymes we consume, the sicker we get.

[pele]

. Their putrid fermented fish and whale-meat is a staple part of their diet and it is that that gives them the energy and strength, and their bodies the ability to really utilise the nutrients they get from the food.

Yuck! I saw a show on TV once about fermented fish that is considered a delicacy someplace (Iceland? Greenland?)

[GermanMia]

Sweden, I think. Hundred year old fish - the cans have to be opend under water - horrible thought

But there also are fermented fish products in far eastern cuisines, like fish sauce, which I really like (although I must admit that I *am* picky with those things...).

Normally the body is able to provide the brain with the glucose it needs without us eating carbs in any form; this is the way low carb or no carb diets work. This just hits the point which I've gotten to. I'm afraid I can't stick to a strict SCD because for some reason the gluconeogenesis in my body doesn't work at all - and as I cannot eat enough fruit and veggies, no honey and no dried fruit, I have to take in something that feeds some glucose into my system. Counting all the calories I take I come to about 2400 calories per day. My blood sugar is at about 70 except when I eat one orange and half banana - then it is 104 and I feel sick from the fructose - great. Either I'm sick from fructose or I feel like fainting. Now I decided to try some rice syrup which doesn't contain fructose but some oligosaccharides which balance the glucose.

[nmr]

I'm afraid I can't stick to a strict SCD because for some reason the gluconeogenesis in my body doesn't work at all - and as I cannot eat enough fruit and veggies, no honey and no dried fruit, I have to take in something that feeds some glucose into my system.

I am with you there - I am not sticking to strict SCD. I cannot tolerate nuts, fruits, (raw or dried), honey, coconut milk, and can tolerate a few veggies. If I eat anything high in free fructose or even fructans (i.e. asparagus), I have extreme fatigue, brain fog, ect. So, I have been starving all day. I never bothered to count calories, but it seemed to me like I was eating a lot of food, but then would be starving again in between meals and unable to work. I am eating oatmeal on occasion and it fills me up.

I know that a lot of fructmal people suggest taking glucose tablets (which I think are dextrose) to help with fructose absorption, but I am curious about the rice syrup. Has it had an impact? How are you using it?

[GermanMia]

I am with you there - I am not sticking to strict SCD. I cannot tolerate nuts, fruits, (raw or dried), honey, coconut milk, and can tolerate a few veggies. If I eat anything high in free fructose or even fructans (i.e. asparagus), I have extreme fatigue, brain fog, ect. So, I have been starving all day. I never bothered to count calories, but it seemed to me like I was eating a lot of food, but then would be starving again in between meals and unable to work. I am eating oatmeal on occasion and it fills me up.

I know that a lot of fructmal people suggest taking glucose tablets (which I think are dextrose) to help with fructose absorption, but I am curious about the rice syrup. Has it had an impact? How are you using it?

Well, actually the calories wouldn't bother me, either, but as I'm very skinny it is quite difficult to get people believe that I'm not faint because I'm anorectic and don't eat enough... I was just fed up with doctors suspecting I might be anorectic - the worst thing is that anorectic people deny that they are anorectic and don't eat enough, and they tend to lie about their actual calorie intake.

Plus if I want serious research I need data about my intake and the reactions, and I must admit that I had some moments when I started doubting myself whether I really eat enough because I still do feel hungry all the time.

As far as I know it's not really proven if the additional intake of glucose helps. In fact the resorption mostly is better when you have a 1 to 1 ratio of glucose and fructose because the glucose pushes the carrier systems for fructose. But unluckily it depends on how good your resorption generally is, what the reason for the malabsorption is etc. So it's not really possible to say something general.

The rice syrup - which consists of glucose, maltose and oligosaccharides - didn't seem to hurt. It's not overly sweet (less than honey) and I dumped a teaspoon full into my espresso. (Funny enough, coffee doesn't disturb me in the least) Tastes horrible, because I hate sweet things and especially sweet coffee, but it helped. One hour after lunch I started getting dizzy as usual, then I had this small espresso with syrup and I felt okay for the next two hours.

Sadly I can't have it with yoghurt, that would be nicer, I think, and it would be good for the blood sugar to combine it with some proteins and fat, but the espresso way was okay. Maybe it would be nice with tea, if one likes sweet tea. Many fructose intolerant people here use it as a sweet bread spread or as a sweetener to bake with.

Anyway I think it's not good to overdo it with this syrup because of the oligosaccharides. I know that I cannot handle them very well, so I try to keep it balanced. Maybe two teaspoons per day will be just all right for me.

[wschmucks]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to give an update. I am two and a half weeks into my SCD. I am not sure I am getting any better-- i guess the most i can say is that things are different. My constipation has not gone away and i have had to increase my laxatives-- but i am having random D (not sure if its from any of my medications or what it means). But then i will be very badly constipated for several days with little help of my laxatives....so im confused. I have stayed with the basic diet (meats, eggs, gelatin, yogurt, DCC in small amounts) and have added the pecan butter muffins, apples, paires, zuchinni, avaocados. I will say i was vegan for a year and recently started some meat-- so this diet is a huge change for my body.

I am taking enzymes, magnesiusm, Carlson's fish oil, miralax and amitiza+ an herbal laxative.

I had a chorns test with the barium done Monday which came back normal with the exception of my transit time-- usually it takes about 1-2 hrs for the liquid to travel through the intestines and it took me almost 4. So things arent moving through my intestines quickly enough-- which makes sense....NOW-- how to fix it!??? Any thoughts? I drink 75 ounces of water a day and exercise etc...I am thinking of starting to be more agressive with the veggies and making sure they are the main course of every meal-- maybe that will help? I'm just not sure the diet is for me.

[AliB]

Whitney, it took a good 6 - 8 weeks for my bowels to sort themselves out - I went through the whole gamut from extreme D to C and everything in between!

I suspect in some ways that it may take a little longer if you have C as your system is probably clogged and that may take a while to rectify.

It is still very early days and your body is going through a lot of changes. I have realised how fragile my digestion still is with this setback - I was doing pretty well, but it only took one thing and I am struggling again. I have to admit that as I have been getting better I have allowed non-SCD foods to creep in on more than a regular basis and may well have just kept a degree of damage going under the surface.

As I am sure I am low in enzymes, that too will not have given my body much power to heal. Apparently Enzymes like Protease help to heal so if we are low in them the body is not able to do that properly.

It took me a year to get to the stage where I could at last see the light at the end of the tunnel, but only a seemingly small thing to set me back so my gut is obviously still quite fragile. Ellen Cutler's assistant emailed me back to say that Ellen does not recommend Enzyme preparations containing HCL because it can aggravate a fragile or inflamed gut. She does recommend taking good broad spectrum Enzymes and extra Protease to assist healing so I have ordered some (without HCL) and hopefully will be ok with them.

All I can say Whitney is just try and hang in there and stick as tight as you can to the diet. As I said before although the D and the stomach pain went away quickly I was in limbo for several months before I really started to see a good improvement generally in both my health and my energy level.

Can you take freshly squeezed lemon juice? Apparently a tablespoon or so (about half a lemon) in a glass of cold or warm water first thing in the morning can help things along.

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[wschmucks]

Thanks for the encouragment-- its so hard when you are young have always been so healthy to all of a sudden plummet into 2 years of feeling awful and no one having answers. I just cant imagine another year of living like this and wish there was something I could do. I was just thinking how much more awful this would all be if there were no internet!!! I am going to continue the diet, because if i dont, and i dont get better i will not feel confident that I did everything I could. I am just so desperate at this point and wish there was a set plan for how to get on the road to recovery.

I will try to lemon-- right now i do the prune concentrate with OJ- hot with tea after wards. I will add the lemon as well.

I am going to add more veggies and start taking some anti-fungals in a few weeks. I wanted to ask about Chocoalte/ cocoa. I know its not allowed-- but i did see a recipe on this site that included it-- I think it was yours Ali. Do you guys eat any or use it in cooking (i REALLY miss chocolate).

[AliB]

Hmm, yes, chocolate, well, that's why I was saying not to stray from the diet like I have. I am sure that some can take a little very bitter choc with low sugar content at a later stage once they are well healed but at the start it is best avoided (mind you, I think the recipe was for raw chocolate not processed which may be marginally more tolerated - you can blame Naomi Devlin's 'Milk for the morning cake' blogspot for that one!).

It's funny, I have always preferred dark choc to milk, and when I do buy it I always get it as bitter as poss, but the other day I was eating a small bit and thought, why the heck to do I think I like this stuff? Do I really like it, or do I just think I do? I am sure that half the time it comes down to habit and programming!

When I was younger I sometimes would get this compulsion to buy and eat a choc bar. I would buy it and eat it, all the while knowing that doing so would make me feel sick. Guess what - I felt sick. Duh!

By the way I was 15 when my digestive issues, weight gain and general borderline Chronic Fatigue started - 37 years ago! Just be glad you have gotten to it as quickly as you have. It's no joke whether you are young or old - I actually have more energy now than I have ever had in 37 years - not a lot, but definitely better!

[chatycady]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to give an update. I am two and a half weeks into my SCD. I am not sure I am getting any better-- i guess the most i can say is that things are different. My constipation has not gone away and i have had to increase my laxatives-- but i am having random D (not sure if its from any of my medications or what it means). But then i will be very badly constipated for several days with little help of my laxatives....so im confused. I have stayed with the basic diet (meats, eggs, gelatin, yogurt, DCC in small amounts) and have added the pecan butter muffins, apples, paires, zuchinni, avaocados. I will say i was vegan for a year and recently started some meat-- so this diet is a huge change for my body.

I am taking enzymes, magnesiusm, Carlson's fish oil, miralax and amitiza+ an herbal laxative.

I had a chorns test with the barium done Monday which came back normal with the exception of my transit time-- usually it takes about 1-2 hrs for the liquid to travel through the intestines and it took me almost 4. So things arent moving through my intestines quickly enough-- which makes sense....NOW-- how to fix it!??? Any thoughts? I drink 75 ounces of water a day and exercise etc...I am thinking of starting to be more agressive with the veggies and making sure they are the main course of every meal-- maybe that will help? I'm just not sure the diet is for me.

How about upping magnesium supplements for a week or two? I used to take 1000mcg's in the morning and again at night. The other things you are taking are they SCD compliant? I'm scared of those type things as I seem to react to them. The herbal laxative? What's it made from?

Do you eat lots of celery? Just some ideas you may want to try. Hope you get the answer.

The diet worked wonders for me. I've started my 6th month and feel healthy. I think I can eat this way the rest of my life. I plan on planting a garden this year and grow my own tomatos, squash, etc. Can't wait to get started!

[pele]

. I was just thinking how much more awful this would all be if there were no internet!!!

Whitney you are right. I shoud have been diagnosed decades ago, but if I had, I would not have had any information source or support and might not have stayed on a gluten-free diet anyway.

For you right now I think the most important thing is to stay on a healing path. The basic principles of the SCD make a lot of sense, and the getting one's diet away from the "industrial food chain" makes even more sense. If your body says "more veggies" go for it.

Have you considered physical therapy? There are massage therapists and physical therapists out there who are converting their practices to doing healing work on the gluten-impaired. If you have a local support group or website you might be able to get a referral.

[julirama723]

I'm feeling a slight snag in my progress this morning...

Yesterday my fiance had to try on his suit for alterations and for a fitting, so I went with him, as I didn't want him to be driving alone in the dark. This happened in a bigger city quite some distance away, so we had to drive 1.5 hours there, and 1.5 hours back. He picked me up from work and away we went.

I ate a small package of peanuts as a snack, as that's all I had at work, and I was STARVING. I did feel my heart get a little wobbly after I ate them, which was scary.

I didn't want to stop and eat anywhere for dinner (I just do not trust restaurants, I WISH gluten were the only thing I had to look out for!) so we stopped at the supermarket instead. I bought veggies, but did not want to buy a huge jar of mayo (since I have 3 at home) so I bought some plain almonds instead. I ate the veggies and probably 2 oz. of the almonds. When I got home, I ate a pumpkin mock danish (which I eat quite regularly with no problems that I know of.)

I started to feel a little gross last night, my bladder hurt for some reason! I didn't sleep well either. When I woke up this morning, I had EXTREME abdominal pain, especially when I would bend over. I actually hobbled around for quite some time, debating whether or not to call in sick and go to the clinic. After about 10 minutes, it seemed to dissipate quite a bit, though I'm still achy and don't feel quite right.

Do you think this could be from the almonds (which I've not eaten in months) or something totally unrelated? When I had the skin prick test done in December, I came up as allergic to cashews, could this possibly mean I've got problems with a few or all tree nuts? Perhaps maybe I just ate too many too soon and they were a bit "rough" for my system to handle?

I've never had problems with any kind of nuts before, but as I well know, that doesn't really mean anything, since "new" intolerances are creeping up on me all the time...

[wschmucks]

How about upping magnesium supplements for a week or two? I used to take 1000mcg's in the morning and again at night. The other things you are taking are they SCD compliant? I'm scared of those type things as I seem to react to them. The herbal laxative? What's it made from?

Do you eat lots of celery? Just some ideas you may want to try. Hope you get the answer.

The diet worked wonders for me. I've started my 6th month and feel healthy. I think I can eat this way the rest of my life. I plan on planting a garden this year and grow my own tomatos, squash, etc. Can't wait to get started!

I havent been eating any cellary-- I'm alittle scared to introduce something so fiberous. Im trying to stay with things that I can basically turn to mush in my mouth before i swallow...should I try some cellary?

I have been taking magnesium but have had mixed results. I used to take it abotu a year ago and it helped a great deal for abotu 3 months...then stopped. Now when i take it i will have small ribbon like BM-- its very strange (and does not seem to keep me...un-constipated). But i was going to get some magnesium citrate pills and try those, as there are several different types of magnesium. I'll let you know!

The herbal laxatives i have been taking Dr Schulze formula 1. It has Cape Aloe (which is different than Aloe vera-- very little poly-sacride), Cascada sagrada and a few othet things. Yes i want to be off of them, infact they arent doing too much now-- whcih is a first, and kinda scares me. But they are the ONLY thing that has helped me. Before that NOTHING did, i would have to do water enemas every 3 days just to function. Not fun.

I'm seeing the Dr today and am not leaving without him at least giving me some sort of directions to follow. Also I am moving to France in 3 weeks for a year (to study), any ideas where i can research what types of juice i can buy there that is SCD compliant-- Ali I know you live in the UK...do they have similar brands?

[Ms Jan]

Also I am moving to France in 3 weeks for a year (to study), any ideas where i can research what types of juice i can buy there that is SCD compliant-- Ali I know you live in the UK...do they have similar brands?

[AliB]

Hi Whitney - I would say Jan's advice is probably better than mine - we may be a lot nearer France than you but it might as well be the other side of the World as far as produce is concerned.

Whilst the UK is way too ready to kow-tow to the EEC and the the red-tape of Brussels, France couldn't give a monkeys' so they will often sell good food on street corners. They have a plethora of beautiful street markets selling fresh home-grown produce, well certainly in the provinces, anyway, something we have little of here.

If you are going to Paris that might not be the same as it is far more cosmopolitan and up-market but as Jan said there are likely to be plenty of juice bars, etc. Personally I would suggest getting hold of a blender and making your own smoothies rather than drinking too much juice. Without the fiber of the whole fruit it is not so good for you - it is a pure sugar hit. I always say, who in their right mind would eat 12 oranges in one go? Yet they will drink 12 oranges-worth of juice in one glass - undiluted.

Once the fruit is juiced, within a couple of hours it has lost most of its enzyme strength and it is those that make the whole fruit so valuable, so, as one eminent being put it - chew your drink and drink your food! Make sure you get plenty of water too - l'eau, L'Evian.

It will be interesting to see how you get on over there - the French love their food, but although it is creeping in a bit here and there - the huge 'march

[chatycady]

I havent been eating any cellary-- I'm alittle scared to introduce something so fiberous. Im trying to stay with things that I can basically turn to mush in my mouth before i swallow...should I try some cellary?

I have been taking magnesium but have had mixed results. I used to take it abotu a year ago and it helped a great deal for abotu 3 months...then stopped. Now when i take it i will have small ribbon like BM-- its very strange (and does not seem to keep me...un-constipated). But i was going to get some magnesium citrate pills and try those, as there are several different types of magnesium. I'll let you know!

The herbal laxatives i have been taking Dr Schulze formula 1. It has Cape Aloe (which is different than Aloe vera-- very little poly-sacride), Cascada sagrada and a few othet things. Yes i want to be off of them, infact they arent doing too much now-- whcih is a first, and kinda scares me. But they are the ONLY thing that has helped me. Before that NOTHING did, i would have to do water enemas every 3 days just to function. Not fun.

I'm seeing the Dr today and am not leaving without him at least giving me some sort of directions to follow. Also I am moving to France in 3 weeks for a year (to study), any ideas where i can research what types of juice i can buy there that is SCD compliant-- Ali I know you live in the UK...do they have similar brands?

I would try a stick or two of celery. Or you can cook a stalk of celery first. It's suppose to keep a person regular. I can understand your apprehension! You know your body best.

Ribbons is not a good thing when it comes to BM's! I used to get horrible stomach cramps with ribbons.

How about hot water? My Aunt and Uncle drink it to help them with C.

[mftnchn]

I've been absent for awhile as I'm very very busy. No time to catch up with all the posts, sorry.

I've continued to have GI symptoms...on strict SCD since 7/08. From another forum I learned that the first year can be rough with a lot of healing crisis, so hang in there. Remember that it takes 1-2 years to heal the intestines (after we have removed all the things causing damage).

Magnesium causing "ribbons"--yes I have had that too, but it is inconsistent. I've learned it means intestinal spasm. Without the magnesium I get C though. Currently I am using Oxy Mag and finding it quite helpful. I also back off to the very basic easy to digest foods when this happens. Fiber has an opposite effect I have found for C when we don't have healthy intestines.

Another possible breakthrough for me is the discovery of a remaining parasite. I had a lot of cleansing naturally happen after going on SCD where I saw a lot of horrible things. That has stopped for several months. My doctor recently discovered a test that is much more accurate, tests for the DNA of parasites. (Metamatrix test). It picked up strongyloides, and my doctor thinks it could be the cause of my flares of symptoms. I'm just finishing the week of treatment, so I'll see if it makes a difference.

On another forum, a person who has been on SCD for 5 years told me she has found return of C associated with detox. I am noticing some connection there, too. So I am doing whatever I can to aid with detox, and I take enough Oxy-mag to ensure I can at least have one BM daily. I am quite mercury toxic, so good detox is crucial for me if I hope to get better.

[wschmucks]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the responses and interest in my move to France. I will be moving to Paris to get my MBA-- very exciting. I dont drink very much fruit juice at all, really only with my morning prune juice or in my Gelatin, but that was the only thing i was concerned about finding. Thanks for the help Ms Jan and Ali

My Dr visit went well-- he has ordred a bunch more blood tests, thyroid (which as been tested but not within the past 4 years), electrolyte, mineral levels, CBC, chest x-ray (i think because of weight fluctuation?), stool sample and he wants me to see a nerologist...ive been alittle dizzy, face tingles, and head aches (i think this is from the new diet though). Any ways--at least he knows how to run tests--LOL. So hopefully something will come back. Its nice that hes proactive.

mftnchn-- is the Oxy Magnesium SCD? I was going to switch types of magnesium to a citrate pill, I will look yours up and see whats in it.

Thanks for all the help. Hope everyone has a good Friday!