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Help With Cd Link To Schizophrenia

PsyDbound

By PsyDbound
in Related Issues & Disorders

Recommended Posts

PsyDbound Newbie
PsyDbound
Posted

I am currently doing reserch on gut permibility and shizophrenia.I don't quite understand the celular process after penetration of the mucosa. I would appriciate any help in getting a clear picture of the transition from anti-gliden to abnormality of the t-cell and the brain connection. Please keep in mind that I am Psych trained and not medical.

Thanks for you time,

Christina

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MySuicidalTurtle Enthusiast
MySuicidalTurtle
Posted

I hate to seem daft, but I think you would get more help by explaining what you need in other words.

PsyDbound Newbie
PsyDbound
Posted
  • Author

Sorry, my bad. Im just having a hard time with the physiology of celiac disease after it has damaged the villi. I know that malabsorbtion is a problem but I don't understand what is being tranfered past the gut wall to the t-cells and what they have to do with schizophrenia. I am sorry if this isn't clear but I really dont understand it myself. Also, if I have misunderstood the whole villi breaking part please correct me.

Thanks,

Christina

Carriefaith Enthusiast
Carriefaith
Posted

I have read in the book Wheat Free Worry free: The Art of Happy, Healthy Gluten-Free Living by Danna Korn that celiac and schizophrenia may be related. I believe that there is a section in the book on this topic.

MySuicidalTurtle Enthusiast
MySuicidalTurtle
Posted

I never thought about the two being connected but I can see how they could be, along with other disorders. Very interesting stuff.

FaithInScienceToo Contributor
FaithInScienceToo
Posted

Quick reply...

Here is a link for a the discussion of this topic - There are numerous references contained in it - perhaps there is something there for you?

Open Original Shared Link

Good luck,

Gina

PsyDbound Newbie
PsyDbound
Posted
  • Author

Thanks for the info, its great and coincides with what I have been researching. I think I may need to confer with a physiologist because I still don't understand what happens on a cellular level. Is seems quite confusing.

Thanks again,

Christina

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Maggie1956 Rookie
Maggie1956
Posted

Hmmmm, very interesting. <_< My sister is a schizophrenic, and she also has trouble in her gut. She recently tested negative to celiac, but I still think she may be gluten intolerant. I'm not sure how accurate the test was either.

Give us an update when you find out more.

mommida Enthusiast
mommida
Posted

Have you looked into the studies that show calcifications of the brain in Celiac patients?

  • 2 weeks later...
Guest BellyTimber
Guest BellyTimber
Posted

As a parallel to this may I suggest Paul Shattock, Paul Whiteley and Dawn Savery who have published the following titles about their work at the Autism Research Unit, School of Health Sciences, University of Sunderland, Sunderland, SR2 7EE, U.K.:

- Autism as a metabolic disorder: guidelines for gluten and casein free dietary intervention

- Autism as a metabolic disorder

- Guidelines for the implementation of a gluten and/or casein free diet with people with autism or associated spectrum disorders

I would be surprised if you didn't find the biochemistry mentioned in these of some interest.

Let us know how you get on - we'll try to follow your terminology!

Michael

Ruth UK Newbie
Ruth UK
Posted

Michael,

I am honestly NOT stalking you. It's just that it's great to have someone from the UK here who is obviously very well read! May I be cheeky enough to enquire what your profession is? (Obviously, don't reply to this if you don't wish to.)

I may have already mentioned this in another post to you, but my lad has ADHD, Asperger's Syndrome and dyspraxia, and in connection with this I would agree with you that the work taking place at the ARU is VERY interesting. My son tested +ve on their tests for 'gluten and casein insensitivity'.

No doubt will speak to you again:)

LUAP Newbie
LUAP
Posted

THE ANSWER FOR THE GUT PERMEABILITY IS GIVEN BY DOUG KAUFMANN IN THE FUNGUS LINK.

I HAVE'NT READ ANYWHERE THAT THERE WAS ABNORMALITY WITH T CELLS...T CELLS ARE PRESENT WHEN SOMETHING DANGEROUS IS PRESENT...

LET TALK ABOUT GLIADIN (MEMBER OF THE GLUTEN GROUP).

THE PEPTID THEORY SAYS THAT THE PROBLEM WITH GLUTEN IS THE SIZE OF THE PROTEIN. THE VERY LONG AMINO ACID CHAIN. RESEARCH ARE CONDUCT ON ENZYMES THAT COULD HELP BREAK THAT HEAVY AMINO ACID CHAIN.

THE PROBLEM WITH THE LONG CHAIN...THE LONGEST IT IS, THE MORE THERE IS GLUTAMIC ACID.

GLUTAMINE, MSG, GLUTAMIC ACID...NATURALY PRESENT IN FOOD. GRAINS CONTAINS ALOT OF IT, ALONG WITH TOMATOES, BEETS, AND OTHERS.

REFERS TO THE BOOK: EXCITOTOXINS, THE TASTE THAT KILLS.

IN THOSES 2 BOOKS, YOU HAVE ALL THE ANSWER YOU NEED...IN MY OPINION.

PAUL

PsyDbound Newbie
PsyDbound
Posted
  • Author

Thank you so much for all of your help and support. I am now completing my research and will post a link to my findings. Again, you have all been so helpful.

FYI I have a Mom, 3 sisters and a brother all with celiac disease (thats out of 12 kids and not all have been tested yet). After writing this research I am convinced testing for celiac disease should be universially accepted and preformed before age five.

Thanks,

Christina

PsyDbound Newbie
PsyDbound
Posted
  • Author

I finished my research and would be happy to e-mail my findings and refrences. Below is a link to a very significant study by William Eaton for the British Medical Journal.

Thanks again for all the great ideas!

Christina

Open Original Shared Link

Guest BellyTimber
Guest BellyTimber
Posted

Ruth

Didn't think you were.

Not working in any related field.

Over the decades my body has talked to me bit by bit about neurology and metabolism leading me to other sources of information. The spirit leading through the body. Making better sense of my life history (so far).

I get little pieces or batches of thoughts together & can express them all in one but the general skill of information organising comes very difficult to me, a kind of dyslexia I think. My having hyperfocussed on words since an early age and excellent spelling and handwriting masked that to "experts"!

Despite so much of my life being behind me fortunately I still have my life ahead of me in some tantalisingly unknown ways...

Michael

:P

Guest BellyTimber
Guest BellyTimber
Posted

Paul,

The various causes and effects of diseases are like one of those gangs that put forward a different "suspect" every time one goes to pursue ones "enquiries" among them.

(probably not a good metaphor)

Regards

Michael

judy05 Apprentice
judy05
Posted

Michael,

When you mentioned "dyslexia" a little "bell" went off in my head. In preparing for

my thyroidectomy my endo doc gave me a book to read about endocrine diseases in which the author, a doctor from New York City, explained about a syndrome, group of diseases, which seem to occur in many individuals. It seems when one organ fails, such as the pancreas, diabetes occur. This in turn leads to another endocrine failure, such as thyroiditis or Grave's disease. His point was that these diseases are all related. Some other related diseases were Celiac, Dyslexia, and

prematurely gray hair?? I wish I could remember the title or the author, I lent it to

someone and never got it back. It seems to be true because my family has each

examples of each one of these.

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      Thanks again for the detailed explanation. Just to clarify, I actually did have my initial tests done while I was still consuming gluten. I stopped eating gluten only after those tests were completed, and it has now been about 70 days since I went gluten-free. I understand the limitations around diagnosing NCGS and the importance of antibody testing and biopsy for celiac disease. Unfortunately, where I live, access to comprehensive testing (including total IgA and endoscopy with biopsy) is limited, which makes things more complicated. Your explanation about small-bowel damage, nutrient absorption, and iron-deficiency anemia still aligns closely with my history, and it’s been very helpful in understanding what may be going on. I don't wanna get Endoscopy and I can't start eating Gluten again because it's hurt really with severe diarrhea.  I appreciate you taking the time to share such detailed and informative guidance. Thank you so much for this detailed and thoughtful response. I really appreciate you pointing out the relationship between anemia and antibody patterns, and how the high DGP IgG still supports celiac disease in my case. A gluten challenge isn’t something I feel safe attempting due to how severe my reactions were, so your suggestion about genetic testing makes a lot of sense. I’ll look into whether HLA testing is available where I live and discuss it with my doctor. I also appreciate you mentioning gastrointestinal beriberi and thiamine deficiency. This isn’t something any of my doctors have discussed with me, and given my symptoms and nutritional history, it’s definitely worth raising with them. I’ll also ask about correcting deficiencies more comprehensively, including B vitamins alongside iron. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and taking the time to help. I’ll update the forum as I make progress.
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      Blood tests for thiamine are unreliable.  The nutrients from your food get absorbed into the bloodstream and travel around the body.  So, a steak dinner can falsely raise thiamine blood levels in the following days.  Besides, thiamine is utilized inside cells where stores of thiamine are impossible to measure. A better test to ask for is the Erythrocyte Transketolace Activity test.  But even that test has been questioned as to accuracy.  It is expensive and takes time to do.   Because of the discrepancies with thiamine tests and urgency with correcting thiamine deficiency, the World Health Organization recommends giving thiamine for several weeks and looking for health improvement.  Thiamine is water soluble, safe and nontoxic even in high doses.   Many doctors are not given sufficient education in nutrition and deficiency symptoms, and may not be familiar with how often they occur in Celiac disease.  B12 and Vitamin D can be stored for as long as a year in the liver, so not having deficiencies in these two vitamins is not a good indicator of the status of the other seven water soluble B vitamins.  It is possible to have deficiency symptoms BEFORE there's changes in the blood levels.   Ask your doctor about Benfotiamine, a form of thiamine that is better absorbed than Thiamine Mononitrate.  Thiamine Mononitrate is used in many vitamins because it is shelf-stable, a form of thiamine that won't break down sitting around on a store shelf.  This form is difficult for the body to turn into a usable form.  Only thirty percent is absorbed in the intestine, and less is actually used.   Thiamine interacts with all of the other B vitamins, so they should all be supplemented together.  Magnesium is needed to make life sustaining enzymes with thiamine, so a magnesium supplement should be added if magnesium levels are low.   Thiamine is water soluble, safe and nontoxic even in high doses.  There's no harm in trying.
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      Thank you! That's helpful. My kids eat very little processed food. Tons of fruit, vegetables, cheese, eggs and occasional red meat. We do a lot of rice and bean bowls, stir fry, etc.  Do you think with all the fruits and vegetables they need a vitamin supplement? I feel like their diet is pretty healthy and balanced with very limited processed food. The only processed food they eat regularly is a bowl of Cheerios here and there.  Could shaking legs be a symptom of just a one-time gluten exposure? I guess there's no way to know for sure if they're getting absolutely zero exposure because they do go to school a couple times a week. We do homeschool but my son does a shared school 2x a week and my daughter does a morning Pre-K 3 x a week.  At home our entire house is strictly gluten free and it is extremely rare for us to eat out. If we eat at someone else's house I usually just bring their food. When we have play dates we bring all the snacks, etc. I try to be really careful since they're still growing. They also, of course, catch kids viruses all the time so I  want to make sure I know whether they're just sick or they've had gluten. It can be pretty confusing when they're pretty young to even be explaining their symptoms! 
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