Jump to content
  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.




  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):



    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):


  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

sweethome

Recommended Posts

sweethome Newbie

Hello,

 

I'd love a little advice/information from people who probably know more about this than I do. Sorry for the slightly long post...

 

I am 32 and female. The only real health problem I have had is endometriosis, which was diagnosed and treated in 2002 and I have had no real problems with since. I am generally very healthy.

 

Last year, in May 2014, in began having some abdominal tenderness just above my belly button if the area was pressed (usually by my toddler's rather enthusiastic hugs!) and left-sided discomfort (waist level) at my back sort of radiating round to the side. I also felt quite full after eating only a little. My GP ordered an ultrasound, which was normal, and a whole range of blood tests, also all normal.

 

Things continued and in September, my GP ordered a coeliac screen which came back positive. My tTGA was 15.3 (normal range 0-6.9) and endomysial antibodies were positive. At the end of November I had an endoscopy and biopsy (4 samples were taken), which came back negative for coeliac disease.

 

In December I started experiencing problems with upper abdominal bloating and also constipation (sorry if tmi, but I could actually go four or five times a day, but just a couple of very tiny little pellets). I also began feeling lightheaded after eating and, with the exception of feeling hungry, felt so much better if I didn't eat or drink at all. So my GP repeated the coeliac screen to see if the first test was an anomaly. This time my tTGA was 35.7 (normal range 0-6.9) and endomysial antibodies were positive.

 

My gastroenterologist (who discharged me back to my GP after the normal biopsy) said I categorically do not have coeliac disease because of the negative biopsy and to continue as normal (with no guidance as to what was causing or would help my current symptoms). My GP agrees that I don't have coeliac disease.

 

So, my question: is there anything else that can cause a positive result on a tTGA blood test other than coeliac disease? My GP and the gastroenterologist both said false positives can occur.

 

My GP suggested I trial a gluten-free diet, but I'm concerned this is a very strict diet and unneccesary if I don't have coeliac disease and will delay/prevent an accurate diagnosis if I do. I have a two year old son, so if I do have coeliac diease, I understand he should be tested?

 

I don't know where to go with this now. Prior to all this starting last year, I had never even heard of coeliac disease. I also don't know if these blood tests are clouding the issue of what is actually causing my symptoms if they really are just false positives...

 

I would really appreciate any advice or insight... Many thanks in advance!


Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):



kareng Grand Master

Your Celiac blood antibodies are going up.  Sounds like you have Celiac.  The GI just missed the damage when he biospied.

 

Open Original Shared Link

 

"if I have a positive blood test and a negative biopsy does that mean I have non-celiac gluten sensitivity?

This is not necessarily true. It may be that the biopsy was done or read incorrectly or that there’s not yet enough damage in the small intestine to diagnose celiac disease (which is often defined as being a “potential celiac”). Please continue to work with a medical professional to eliminate celiac disease before pursuing another diagnosis."

 

 

 

Open Original Shared Link

 

 

"Yes, blood work can be falsely positive, as can any test in medicine, especially at low titers. However, it may be that the biopsy was done or read incorrectly or that there’s not yet enough damage in the small intestine to diagnose celiac disease. A second opinion at a celiac center can help clarify a diagnosis.

False positives vary between the tests and also between the populations considered. For instance, tTG is falsely positive in about 2-3% of people in general, but in about 20% of those with Type 1 Diabetes or other autoimmune conditions. EMA, on the other hand, has basicallyno false positives.

You could consider a Open Original Shared Link and Open Original Shared Link to assist with your diagnosis. In certain cases these can provide a strong enough indication to diagnose the disease when in conjunction with a positive response to a gluten-free diet."

 

Search
MycasMommy Enthusiast

If you do decide to do a trial run off of gluten, it will take a few months, at least, to get it all 100% perfect. You may notice relief right away though. Your small intestine is HUGE and the damage may have just been undetected.  That your GP and GI do not KNOW this is a warning sign that they do not know very much about celiac considering your blood work went UP and was twice positive, but they are still blaming the blood work for being inaccurate.  Anyway, if it were me, I would either find a new GI or as I am doing for my kid, going to a "fancy" doctor who deals with it as a specialization. Its out of pocket and worth it. People see having to go gluten free as some sort of horrible death sentence. It really isnt.  It is a change. If it makes you feel better, it is also worth it.  Also, it can cause fertility problems. If you already have endometriosis and are looking forward to another child someday, you will want to get it under control now.  You need no ones permission to go gluten free but it really is better to have a proper diagnoses BEFORE you do.

sunny2012 Rookie

The blood test was supposed to eliminate the need for biopsy except in very rare cases. I was on the research to find an faster, more accurate, and less invasive method to diagnose Celiac. The biopsy can easily miss this disease for many reasons including biopsying places with no damage and taking biopsies incorrectly. 

I am not sure where the disconnect is with training physicians to understand the dangers of missing a Celiac diagnosis save perhaps they still believe it is no big deal just because it is controlled thru diet and they figure that is no big deal.

 

It is a struggle to function on a gluten free diet. I had to stop eating out with friends who choose to consume the pre-meal bread while talking. I have found recognizable pieces of bread in my drink. NO telling how much of it ends up in my plate.

 

If you shop around the outside of the grocery store and cook from scratch, it will be much easier.

Cthompson638 Newbie

I'm in a similar situation. My TTGA levels were low positive in my blood test but the GI has said that if there is no damage in my biopsies then I do not have Celiacs. She said it could just indicate gluten sensitivity, however from doing some research I have read that gluten sensitivity alone does not cause these antibodies to be produced.

Cara in Boston Enthusiast

A negative biopsy only means damage was not found, not that it was not there.  The biopsy can only confirm a celiac diagnosis, not rule it out.  If you have symptoms and a positive blood test, the "final test" would be to try the diet.  If your symptoms resolve (and your blood returns to normal) you can be 100% sure.

 

It is much more likely that your biopsy was falsely negative than your blood test falsely positive.

nvsmom Community Regular

A low positive tTG IgA (not double or quadruple the normal upper limits like yours was) can be caused by thyroiditis, diabetes, liver disease, crohn's, colitis, or a serious infection.  Those causes only happen in about 5% of all positive results.  A false positive tTG IgA is not common; a positive result is caused by celiac disease 95% of the time.

 

The EMA IgA only gives a positive result for celiac disease.  I have never, in three years of researching celiac disease and being on this board, seen a false positive EMA IgA test.  They are specific to celiac disease 98-100% of the time.  Also, the EMA IgA tends to detect more advanced disease. After the tTG IgA has started to create problems, the EMA IgA appears and attempts to wipe out the upper layer of the intestines with the intention of killing off whatever is causing the problem.  

 

A positive EMA IgA in addition to a positive tTG IgA is celiac disease - that is how I was diagnosed.

 

See this report (pages 8-12) on the details of testing: Open Original Shared Link

 

The endoscopic biopsy has a sensitivity that can be as low as 80%.  That means it can miss up to 20% of celiacs, or 1 in 5.  I agree with the others that you are a celiac and the biopsy missed the damage, and because your small intestine has the surface area of a tennis court, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.

 

Also, those tests will not indicate non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS).  The tTG and EMA tests are NEVER both positive in someone with NCGS.  Ever. It is barely possible that someone with NCGS has diabetes, thyroiditis, or some other problem that would cause a slightly elevated tTG IgA, but if it is accompanied by celiac disease symptoms then it's celiac disease.  As somone around here once said, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

 

Best wishes.


Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):



MycasMommy Enthusiast

A low positive tTG IgA (not double or quadruple the normal upper limits like yours was) can be caused by thyroiditis, diabetes, liver disease, crohn's, colitis, or a serious infection.  Those causes only happen in about 5% of all positive results.  A false positive tTG IgA is not common; a positive result is caused by celiac disease 95% of the time.

 

The EMA IgA only gives a positive result for celiac disease.  I have never, in three years of researching celiac disease and being on this board, seen a false positive EMA IgA test.  They are specific to celiac disease 98-100% of the time.  Also, the EMA IgA tends to detect more advanced disease. After the tTG IgA has started to create problems, the EMA IgA appears and attempts to wipe out the upper layer of the intestines with the intention of killing off whatever is causing the problem.  

 

A positive EMA IgA in addition to a positive tTG IgA is celiac disease - that is how I was diagnosed.

 

See this report (pages 8-12) on the details of testing: Open Original Shared Link

 

The endoscopic biopsy has a sensitivity that can be as low as 80%.  That means it can miss up to 20% of celiacs, or 1 in 5.  I agree with the others that you are a celiac and the biopsy missed the damage, and because your small intestine has the surface area of a tennis court, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.

 

Also, those tests will not indicate non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS).  The tTG and EMA tests are NEVER both positive in someone with NCGS.  Ever. It is barely possible that someone with NCGS has diabetes, thyroiditis, or some other problem that would cause a slightly elevated tTG IgA, but if it is accompanied by celiac disease symptoms then it's celiac disease.  As somone around here once said, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

 

Best wishes.

 

 

How many thumbs up can I give this?  Not enough!

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Celiac.com:
    Join eNewsletter
    Donate

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):
    Celiac.com Sponsor (A17):





    Celiac.com Sponsors (A17-M):




  • Recent Activity

    1. - trents replied to SamAlvi's topic in Celiac Disease Pre-Diagnosis, Testing & Symptoms
      5

      High TTG-IgG and Normal TTG-IgA

    2. - SamAlvi replied to SamAlvi's topic in Celiac Disease Pre-Diagnosis, Testing & Symptoms
      5

      High TTG-IgG and Normal TTG-IgA

    3. - Jsingh replied to lizzie42's topic in Post Diagnosis, Recovery & Treatment of Celiac Disease
      1

      Son's legs shaking

    4. - lizzie42 posted a topic in Post Diagnosis, Recovery & Treatment of Celiac Disease
      1

      Son's legs shaking

    5. - trents replied to Paulaannefthimiou's topic in Gluten-Free Foods, Products, Shopping & Medications
      1

      Bob red mill gluten free oats

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      132,868
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748

    yooperjb
    Newest Member
    yooperjb
    Joined
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121.5k
    • Total Posts
      1m
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):
  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • trents
      Currently, there are no tests for NCGS. Celiac disease must first be ruled out and we do have testing for celiac disease. There are two primary test modalities for diagnosing celiac disease. One involves checking for antibodies in the blood. For the person with celiac disease, when gluten is ingested, it produces an autoimmune response in the lining of the small bowel which generates specific kinds of antibodies. Some people are IGA deficient and such that the IGA antibody tests done for celiac disease will have skewed results and cannot be trusted. In that case, there are IGG tests that can be ordered though, they aren't quite as specific for celiac disease as the IGA tests. But the possibility of IGA deficiency is why a "total IGA" test should always be ordered along with the TTG-IGA. The other modality is an endoscopy (scoping of the upper GI track) with a biopsy of the small bowel lining. The aforementioned autoimmune response produces inflammation in the small bowel lining which, over time, damages the structure of the lining. The biopsy is sent to a lab and microscopically analyzed for signs of this damage. If the damage is severe enough, it can often be spotted during the scoping itself. The endoscopy/biopsy is used as confirmation when the antibody results are positive, since there is a small chance that elevated antibody test scores can be caused by things other than celiac disease, particularly when the antibody test numbers are not particularly high. If the antibody test numbers are 10x normal or higher, physicians will sometimes declare an official diagnosis of celiac disease without an endoscopy/biopsy, particularly in the U.K. Some practitioners use stool tests to detect celiac disease but this modality is not widely recognized in the medical community as valid. Both celiac testing modalities outlined above require that you have been consuming generous amounts of gluten for weeks/months ahead of time. Many people make the mistake of experimenting with the gluten free diet or even reducing their gluten intake prior to testing. By doing so, they invalidate the testing because antibodies stop being produced, disappear from the blood and the lining of the small bowel begins to heal. So, then they are stuck in no man's land, wondering if they have celiac disease or NCGS. To resume gluten consumption, i.e., to undertake a "gluten challenge" is out of the question because their reaction to gluten is so strong that it would endanger their health. The lining of the small bowel is the place where all of the nutrition in the food we consume is absorbed. This lining is made up of billions of microscopically tiny fingerlike projections that create a tremendous nutrient absorption surface area. The inflammation caused by celiac disease wears down these fingers and greatly reduces the surface area needed for nutrient absorption. Thus, people with celiac disease often develop iron deficiency anemia and a host of other vitamin and mineral deficiencies. It is likely that many more people who have issues with gluten suffer from NCGS than from celiac disease. We actually know much more about the mechanism of celiac disease than we do about NCGS but some experts believe NCGS can transition into celiac disease.
    • SamAlvi
      Thank you for the clarification and for taking the time to explain the terminology so clearly. I really appreciate your insight, especially the distinction between celiac disease and NCGS and how anemia can point more toward celiac. This was very helpful for me.
    • Jsingh
      Hi,  My 7 year daughter has complained of this in the past, which I thought were part of her glutening symptom, but more recently I have come to figure out it's part of her histamine overload symptom. This one symptom was part of her broader profile, which included irritability, extreme hunger, confusion, post-nasal drip. You might want to look up "histamine intolerance". I wish I had known of this at the time of her diagnosis, life would have been much easier.  I hope you are able to figure out. 
    • lizzie42
      My 5yo was diagnosed with celiac last year by being tested after his sister was diagnosed. We are very strict on the gluten-free diet, but unsure what his reactions are as he was diagnosed without many symptoms other than low ferritin.  He had a school party where his teacher made gluten-free gingerbread men. I almost said no because she made it in her kitchen but I thought it would be ok.  Next day and for a few after his behavior is awful. Hitting, rude, disrespectful. Mainly he kept saying his legs were shaking. Is this a gluten exposure symptom that anyone else gets? Also the bad behavior? 
    • trents
      Not necessarily. The "Gluten Free" label means not more than 20ppm of gluten in the product which is often not enough for super sensitive celiacs. You would need to be looking for "Certified Gluten Free" (GFCO endorsed) which means no more than 10ppm of gluten. Having said that, "Gluten Free" doesn't mean that there will necessarily be more gluten than "Certified Gluten" in any given batch run. It just means there could be. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

NOTICE: This site places This site places cookies on your device (Cookie settings). on your device. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use, and Privacy Policy.