Depression And Bipolar.

[jknnej]

I just have to say that it absolutely infuriates me to read a post suggesting people with depression "exercise more." First of all, we've tried that. Secondly, it doesn't work for everyone.

There are many types of depression. Sometimes people get depression spurred from a traumatic experience in their life that they must recover from (divorce, death of a loved one, loss of job, etc.) Those types of depression probably would benefit a great deal from exercise.

But there are also those who are acutely and clinically depressed. Or, people who have bipolar or schizophreniz which causes depression. You can't be serious in suggesting these people "exercise" as the answer.

I myself tried exercise, meditation, therary, diet changes, and everything under the SUN to rid myself of the depression for at least 6 months. NONE of it worked. I wouldn't take meds because of people like the ones who are posting here, making people who need medicine feel guilty or that they are simply not "strong enough" to get over it themselves. That is ludicrous.

Furthermore, I think it is irresponsible and reprehensible to post such advice over the internet to someone you have never met, even despite what they may say about themselves. Who knows how much of it is true? You could be advising someone very impressionable. You don't know the workings of their daily lives. The only person who should advise someone to take meds or not take meds is the doctor who treats the human being. I'm sorry but it really ticks me off and I will keep saying that.

[Jnkmnky]

[Guest BERNESES]

Whoa! Take a deep breath everybody. We're all entitled to our opinions and there's no need to attack each other. What we're on this thread to do is help Nikki, not throw our own beliefs in each other's faces. Let's keep this on track for her- remember- she's the one that's in need of help.

[Jnkmnky]

[jerseyangel]

Maybe take a deep breath and re-read Jnkmnky's original post--to me, it looked like she had come across some information she thought would be helpful, and added her own experience with the issue in question. Isn't that what we do here all the time?

[Canadian Karen]

I think the whole nation has already debated this when Tom Cruise let his thoughts on this be known.

Any advice given on here should be taken with the understanding that there is a disclaimer that it is only "advice", and ultimately, the two people who should be making decisions as to whether medication is needed or not is you and your doctor.

There are arguments and studies to support both sides of this topic. Personally, myself, have been a long time user of Prozac as the research I have done not only on anti-depressant medication, but my own family history, strongly indicates a lack of seratonin in our brains, perhaps due to genetics. Prozac works for me, in fact gave me my life back. Exercise may have the exact same affect on others. Bottom line is treatment is individualized and all options should be put on the table, but any attempt to push an option off the table because you don't believe in it, in my opinion, would not be right.

Have a great day!

Karen

[Jnkmnky]

[nettiebeads]

I believe the article I posted suggested a COMBINATION of therapies...

I agree - a combination would probably be very helpful. However, I would almost bet that the article was edited for space because it just said depression. It didn't state if it was the blues, hard-core intractable depression, also known as dythymia (what I have) or somewhere inbetween. I wouldn't doubt that excersize and the gluten-free diet might alleviate some of the problems nikki's husband is having, but his sounds like a very serious case that needs medical intervention. What's so fun is that while we know when we are PHYSICALLY ill, the brain can't really recognize when IT is ill. Zoloft was a godsend for me and I sure cannot fault anyone for trying anything reasonable to get his/her life back to some level of normallacy.

And please, everyone, let's watch the tone. Remember, there are lurkers on this board who need help and have questions and I sure don't want anyone scared off for any reason.

[nikki-uk]

First of all I'd like to thank you all for your comments.

Thought it was about time I let you all know how he is now.

Things have calmed down alot-he finally doesn't seem 'manic' anymore.

He's sleeping (without sleeping tabs)and his 'agitation' seems to have died down.

We have an appt to see my hubbies Psychiatrist next week.I've written out a list of questions/queries,and will make him (sorry,her) aware of my concerns that it's 'bi-polar'-not just depression.

We also received an appt for me and hubbie to go to Psycotherapy(counselling).

My husband has many issues to deal with from his past(crap chidhood,crap roll models etc)

Maybe that can help with his paranoia.He needs to turn round his idea that 'all' women are liars and cheats & if you trust them,they hurt you.

Anyway,we soldier on!

He says he does feel some improvement but still gets overcome by paranoid thoughts(always about me being unfaithful)but it's not as often or as bad as before.

He also recognises that when he voices his thoughts-they sound ridiculous.

Maybe the doc will adjust the drugs-but I'm adamant he stays on the anti-psychotics for the time being.I'm convinced they are keeping his demons at bay.

The other day,hubbie got glutened-which seemed to trigger an anxiety attack in him.

He was sweating ,heart racing,-he said he felt like he was 'vibrating' inside.

Does anyone else get these?

Ok,as for the exersize-well I'm a big fan of exercise keeping the depression at bay,and always encourage hubbie to get out & get active at least once a day.

However,IMO,it's gonna take more than exercise to get him out of this hole!

I would never contemplate him coming off meds yet.

But thanks for all your comments,-I value your opinions

So thanks again guys,you've been a great help!

Karen,I love your new avatar,very apt!!

(Don't you just wish you could retreat into your shell every time the going get's tough!)

Keep you posted-Nikki x

[jerseyangel]

Hi Nikki--I am glad to hear that your husband is doing better. It sounds like such a difficult situation for you both--your strength is amazing. To answer the question about gluten reaction, I get anxiety and heart palpitations and my hands and feet sweat when I have a reaction. They tend to linger on even after the digestive stuff goes away. I hope he continues to make good progress.

[Canadian Karen]

Hi Nikki,

Your hubby is blessed to have you and your inner strength. You are an inspiration! It's refreshing to see there are still people out there who take marriage vows and the "for better or for worse" part of them literally.

Hugs!

Karen

[Lisa]

Karen, got another shell for me.

[Lisa]

I can e-mail one over to you if you need it........

Karen

We all want you to come out now. It's safe.

[Rusla]

I am going to put Bipolar out there in terms that people can understand. Bipolar is the majority many cases genetic. It can miss generations or not. Not everyone in the family has to have it either. To say if you exercise you will be cured of bipolar depression is like saying if you exercise you can cure yourself of Celiac disease also.

When a person is in chemical depression it has gone beyond the point of exercise. If they are depressed and it has not reached the chemical depression then there is a chance for exercise to help.

jnkmky...who reported to you for what? That message was rather cryptic.

[Guest BERNESES]

Nikki- I am SO glad that your hubby is doing better. You are and must have been an amazing source of support for him. That is so helpful.

Coming from the point of view of someone who has suffered a severe depression in my twenties (my doctor said I was the most severely depressed person he ever treated that didn't need to be hospitalized- very scary!), exercise is key. I walked every day during that depressive episode (along with meditating, doing yoga and journaling) but the only thing that got me over it was the meds. Sorry, but it's true. Without the meds, I shudder to think what would have happened to me. Couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, lost twenty pouinds in two months (hey- that sounds like last year when I started showing symptoms of Celiac's!). Excercise, journaling and meditating, I believe, helped me recover faster (because exercise produces endorphins and those are brain chemicals) but it was not enough.

Nikki- Make sure you write down what you notice about his behavior as he gets on the meds and tell the doctor. The fact that he has the ability to recognize his thoughts as illogical is HUGE. Wishing you all the best. ((((Hugs))))), Beverly

[jknnej]

Wow, I obviously illicited a strong response from Jnkmnky. I don't feel I was nasty at all in my post; only honest. And I didn't call you reprehensible; I said giving medical advice to people you don't know is reprehensible unless you're a doctor. And I think it is. To me what you said is akin to telling a cancer patient who needs chemo to try medicinal herbs. Still, I didn't call you a name. And I wasn't trying to engage anyone in a battle here. I was simply trying to warn people who read posts to watch out for the advice and to plead to posters that even though it is just an internet website, we are responsible for what we preach.

There is no need to be so defensive; obviously your intent in telling me to exercise when you already knew my opinion on it was to immaturely bait me into an argument. Well, I'm not going there because arguing with you is not why I wrote that post.

I stand by what I said and all I will say is, readers read with caution. Don't take advice from strangers on your medical conditions.

[Guest BERNESES]

And i think you're right. I'm glad to see theis thread is getting back to what it was supposed to do.

[Rachel--24]

Prozac works for me, in fact gave me my life back. Exercise may have the exact same affect on others. Bottom line is treatment is individualized and all options should be put on the table, but any attempt to push an option off the table because you don't believe in it, in my opinion, would not be right.

This is true. What works for some may not work for others. In my case I was severely depressed. I knew that whatever was causing my physical pain was also the cause of my mood swings and depression. Intuitavely I knew that drugs were not the answer for me but no doctor would listen. Drugs were pushed at me until finally I gave in and tried Prozac. I gave it 2 months and not a single change except total loss of sex drive, which was "barely there" before the pills. Doctors wanted to prescribe Wellbutrin on top of the Prozac...I said NO WAY. I think the Prozac actually worsened the situation and I was talking and thinking about suicide constantly. I didnt trust myself anymore and noone was listening when I repeated over and over that something was causing this behavior and no drug was gonna "fix" it.

When I made dietary changes the improvement was quick and dramatic. I was happy, I had energy and I was finally *able* to excersize (previously I had been too tired for anything physical). Having the energy to do things productive made all the difference. I worked in my yard all summer and was happy. Sunlight also improved my symptoms. The depression is gone except for a handful of bad days in the past 9 months.

I was perscribed another antidepressant just days before I changed my diet...EVERYONE was pushing me to take it due to my suicidal rantings. When I went to fill the perscription the doctor had forgotton to list quantity of pills so the pharmasist was unable to fill my scrip w/out getting ahold of the doc.

It was 2 days later that I changed my diet and like I said....improvement was dramatic. If I had gotten that prescription filled and then started the diet noone would have believed it was the diet change alone making the difference. I would have been forced to take a drug unnecessarily.

Now EVERY person who SO wanted me on antidepressants is thankful for that one prescription error and for my own determination to do what was right for ME.

Although I wasnt delusional (well maybe a tiny bit) I was severely depressed to the point that it was recommended I be checked into a mental hospital for observation and if not that...I was not to be left alone.

I take no mediaction of any kind and my mental state has returned to normal. I realize that some people here feel that drugs are necessary in extreme cases...I think that I am proof that sometimes the opposite is true. I think drugs (if they had worked) would have masked my symptoms and prevented me from identifying the true cause of my illness.

In some cases drugs are necessary. For me....I choose to live w/out them unless I have no other option.

[jknnej]

It is always amazing to me to hear how dramatically people got better after going gluten free. That is so awesome. My stomach aches got dramatically better so in one sense I understand it.

Oddly enough the effect the gluten-free diet had on my body was the reverse. I got depressed after going gluten-free. I wish someone in the medical field would do a study on what gluten withdrawl does to the body.

You know, if exercise worked for my depression I'd be cured in a minute. I do yoga, I run, I ski, I waterski, I lift weights, etc. all on a regular basis (3-5 times a week for the workouts). I waterski every weekend in the summer and ski every two weeks or so in the winter. I always have since I was a teenager (I'm 29 now). So unfortuantely for me adding exercise didn't work; I was already doing it and continuing to do so didn't change my state of mind. I was doing a LOT of exercise, even taking my dog running 3 miles a night. If anything, maybe I did too MUCH exercise! LOL

My other problem was anxiety. I had it so bad I would not leave the house during the summer. I would try, then go out and get so physically sick I had to come home. I had so many physical symptoms my doctor was tired of seeing me (rapid heartrate, dizziness, nausea, low blood pressure). So I went to another doctor. I told the second doctor that the first doctor had wanted me to take an anti-depressant. The second doctor agreed. First I tried natural anti-depressants, like Gaba and 5-HTP. Unfortunately those didn't change anything, either. I also tried therapy and meditation. I loved it, but it didn't change anything for my state of mind.

I finally caved and started the meds (the lowest dose you can take of Effexor). Since then I have had no physical symptoms of anxiety and no depression. I plan on stopping them in about 5 months. The doctor asked me to try them for a year as the effect isn't always immediate. I knew when I started that I wouldn't take them forever; that was never the plan. Hopefully it will all work out when I stop them.

[Rachel--24]

It is always amazing to me to hear how dramatically people got better after going gluten free. That is so awesome.

Although gluten had alot to do with it....I dont attribute the whole thing to just removal of gluten. I also have problems with processed foods and all the junk in them (food dyes, additives, perservatives, etc.) Those things have a dramatic affect on my mood and behavior as well. Its a bummer because I love junk.

I have something else going on besides gluten intolerance so until I get all the answers I just eat a healthy organic diet and it works.

[Guest BERNESES]

rachel-24- That is an encouraging story for sure! It's so important to listen to your own body and you did and you were right. When I was first diagnosed with depression (1989) SSRI's like Prozac weren't even on the market so I took an old-school anti-depressant. I have no idea what was known about Celiac's in 1989 but if someone had suggested to me that I try going gluten-free first, I would have done it in a second. But no one even thought to check me out physically.

Now that I've been gluten-free for almost a year I've needed to decrease my meds which I think is really hopeful! We'll see where this all ends up. I wonder what would have happened if I had stopped eating gluten 17 years ago!

[stemanndemon]

Dear Rusla,

I have a history of bipolar disorder but haven't had a manic episode since 1985. I went on the Candida diet in 1987 and was on it for a little over four years. But I felt bad every time I tried to get off of that diet, which is MOSTLY gluten-free. I have struggled with the same exact symptoms that your husband struggles with! I lost a wonderful fiance because of my accusations that he was cheating on me. I would have temper tantrums, too. Finally, I became homeless for two and a half years and it was then that I discovered my gluten intolerance. It is not enough just to avoid the gluten. Your husband needs to supplement with vitamins and minerals and work on rebalancing his intestinal flora. I would like you to consider this excellent vitamin/mineral product: "EMPowerplus" by the Canadian non-profit company called "True Hope". Go to Open Original Shared Link and read the testimonies of completely recovered formerly bipolar people! It is a fallacy that one is stuck with a mental illness for life!!!! He may have mineral or vitamin deficiencies, he may have other food allergies or chemical sensitivities, he may have a borderline thyroid disorder, he may be hypoglycemic.... the list goes on and on.

Also take a look at the recovery testimonials at this site: Open Original Shared Link

It's hard to live with someone who's manic, neurotic and/or psychotic, but hang on! That's not the real him. I am doing very very well these days and my ADD and dyslexia are almost gone, too! I'm finishing up college while working about 30 hours a week but I'm not "driven" in that anxious way that you describe. That is part of a distant past for me.

There is hope!!!

[eleep]

I've just posted on some related stuff in the thread about anxiety -- one thing I said there that I think really relates here is that brain chemistry can change over time in response to long-term, un-dealt with anxiety, depression, etc.... -- that is, anxiety and depression that aren't managed earlier on (perhaps through lifestyle changes, perhaps through medication) can develop into more persistant, difficult-to-treat disorders that require medication.

I don't know how bipolar disorder fits into this exactly -- my mother was diagnosed as bipolar (although she was put on Prozac at the end of her life -- which is a no no for someone who's bipolar -- and she didn't have any of the mania associated with bipolars on SSRI's). I do know that bipolar disorder is often initially triggered by stressful life circimstances -- so people with bipolar disease in their families would do well to find ways of managing anxiety and depression early on.