Why Are You Looking For Doctors?

[debmidge]

I must be honest, I think the majority of doctors are ill prepared for making a celiac disease diagnosis, but I think most suffer from "I'm God" syndrome. I have to be honest; I can't be less than honest on this subject.

My husband has gone thru a personal h*ll for 26 years and went to about 7 doctors (3 GI's); not only to be misdiagnosed but eventually told his problem was all in his head, etc. If my husband would agree, I would institute law suits against the gastro group he went to in 1994 as I practically, unknowlingly gave that gastro the diagnosis on a silver platter and he rejected it. I've had to watch my husband deteriorate and helpless to do anything to help him. The contingent damage inflicted by these doctors affected our lives that go beyond the scope of these words. The ancillary problems that he has from celiac disease due to not being diagnosed properly all these years (and he had typical celiac disease symptoms all these years, which I understand should not be hard to diagnose) have made him physically and mentally ill.

So, chalk me up on the "I don't trust doctors" column.

To those who don't share this opinion, you probably are able to forgive and forget better than I can. But I do hope you can use the empathy you have for doctors and apply it to those who have been through the mill with physicians, who have dropped and started new with so many doctors that their heads spin.

[Guest nini]

Its best that you find a new doc if you not comfortable with this one. Get confrontail with your doc will likely do nothing but cause you agravation. JMO!

I found a new OB/GYN today! I talked to the nurses at the office and they seemed so nice and wonderful! This dr. is a woman, so I'm hoping I'll be more comfortable with her! And she's closer to my home. The other dr. I'd have to drive across town to go see.

[ianm]

My experience with doctors is that most of them are only in it for the money now. Being a doctor USED TO BE a noble calling but not anymore. It has become a way for drug companies to push pills that only mask the symptoms but never cure the disease. There are some good doctors that are truly interested in the welfare of thier patients but they are few and far between.

[debmidge]

None of the doctors my husband went to were pill pushers.

On the contrary over the years, I would ask them if they had something that could help him (hubby always wants me to go into office visit with him cause he gets nervous) and they replied no. As a matter of fact, first misdiagnosis was done by the Veteran's Administration Hopsital in East Orange, NJ. At this point he had just lost 30 lbs with nonstop diarrhea, gas, bloating, etc. He was looking nearly skeletal - like he was ill!!

That doctor, when hubby asked for more tests in 1977, was told by the gastro there, "You junkies are all the same. You only come here looking to get drugs!"

My husband replied, "I don't want drugs! What kind of a nut do you think I am asking for a GI series? I would be nuts to go through that just for drugs. " (back then I don't believe they had endoscopies, just barium upper GI and barium enema for lower GI, also back then a lot of the vets who lived around that hospital were on illegal drugs and I guess these doctors were tired of treating them for non-existent health problems as they did go there only for prescription pain killers and such. My hubby told Dr. he didn't want a prescription for anything, just do the tests).

After that, in 1978, he went to his first private gastro and got another misdiagnosis. And so on, and so on. And these were the years before drug companies had so many new drugs and before HMO's making stupid rules.

It's a lazy doctor who is in business just to prescribe pills. But even the ones who are stingy about prescribing can be in it for the money only...but these days what money? They are told by the HMO's how many patients they must see in a day, and the maximum money they can charge. It's any wonder that they do make money today. The drug companies, while they over inform about their products, don't force the doctor to prescribe. There's no financial benefit for the doctor to prescibe anything; they don't get a kickback. I think the doctors just don't want to spend the time researching and learning to be able to diagnose better, so then they rely on writing prescriptions when in doubt.

One of my husband's gastros, the one in 1994 had me in tears in his office. He was showing his superior knowledge to me and when I questionned him, he became gruff and wanted the visit to be over that moment. He's the one I'd like to sue because he put himself out as a Specialist in a highly prestigious medical group. I told him that it appears that my husband wasn't absorbing his calories, nutrients, fats etc. and he actually told me "No, it's nothing like that at all." and then wanted to end the visit. Little did I know that a disease like this really existed. He wouldn't even consider the possibility of this being the case.

So again, that combined with treatment of other family members and myself going through a tumor scare several years ago, I find that most doctors are not capable of diagnosing properly and rely on intimidation or bullying of their patients and probably are glad that the "hard" cases go somewhere else.

[jenvan]

Deb, interesting info. It hurts that your dh had to go through all that... There are a lot of issues with the current medical establishment in my mind, but one of them, as you touched upon, is too many patients! Some docs do make you feel like you are literally on an assembly line, just stopping by with barely enough time to go into your symptoms....

[floridanative]

Boy this is just the post I needed today. After taking two days to get new make-up and safe food to get us through Sat. when we'll really clean everything out, I am just mad as h*ll with the GI who actually called with my biopsy results Monday. Don't get me wrong - I'm glad I finally have an answer to what is wrong with me. BUT (this will take a while) the first GI I went to said I may have celiac disease and then made me have a colonoscopy first? Then he won't do the endo at the same time. Then when I set up my endo for Dec. with him, his asst. said something like the doc will do a biopsy IF he sees something. Well that scared me away from him after reading some of the posts here indicating having several endos without the doc taking actual biopsies for the lab to read.

On to doc #2. He is a hemotologist and this visit was really a vain attempt on my part to find some iron disorder that was the cause of my anemia. Well no such luck but that idiot asked a few questions and said he'd run a Celiac panel and we'd schudule the biopsy. Oh and what pray tell did he think about my anemia? Well I have it because I'm a woman. Keep taking iron pills and it will go away after manopause....in about 15-20 years. No thanks jerk! Oh and when he got my blood test results only the ttg was out of whack, just like on the first test. When I asked him on the phone what would cause that flagged result besides Celiac (it was noted ont the page he knew I had been faxed by HIS nurse that is was 99% SPECIFIC to Celaic disease) his response was - your test results are inconclusive but you don't have celiac disease and I'll PROVE it with the biopsy. Another NO THANKS to him!

Last but not least was doctor #3. He was recommended by someone (a Celiac) whose life he saved so I was extremely excited to get in to see him in late Dec. Well after extensive questions by his PA, he comes in, glances at her (PA) notes for about 3 seconds and then answers his cell phone when it rings. Nice! So I think he doesn't have good manners but he's still the answer to my prayers....he'll help me. He pushed really hard down on my stomach (why do they all do this anyway?), asked me if I had Celiac or stomach or colon cancers in my family. Nope - not that I know of. Let me go back and say when he first came in he said 'you were told that you could have celiac disease?' and I said yes by the first GI doc I saw. So then he looks at me and says 'I don't really know why are you here today, I'm sure you don't have celiac disease'. You don't have chronic *C* or *D* and you say you have not lost or gained any wt. I said, well the two other doctors I saw told me I needed a biopsy but I didn't trust either one of them to do it. Someone you helped referred me to you. He didn't even ask who which I thought rude. Anyway, he then said 'I really don't think you need the endoscopy' and I said I understood and I'd go back to one of the other docs who had already scheuled the test for me (I'd cancelled both of course) knowing full well this guy would figure that he as well make the $ if someone was going to. He then said it was probably a good idea to go ahead and do it just to make sure something else isn't wrong with me. So I had the test on 1-11 and I won't repeat about how HORRIBLE that was for me. I already posted elsewhere about that. Anyway, when this guy called Monday the only good part was making him eat crow. I said, how can you possibly tell me I have Celiac? You already told me you thought my anemia was gone....and that I couldn't have celiac disease for serveral reasons - I'm confused. His response was just what I expected. 'Well the test results don't lie and you have a classic case of Celaic Sprue'. He then asked if I wanted him to read the exact lab result text and I said yes. He took three samples and each one showed damaged villi, pretty extensive actually from what he read to me. Then he said to start the gluten-free diet and call his office in June to set my next biopsy for July. I say fine. Needless to say I will NOT be going back to him for anything else EVER! I agree with Vydorscope - we have the power to fire the bad doctors - plain and simple.

As soon as my pcp sends me my endoscopy report and it's in my hot little hands, I'm going to write doc #3 first. Just a little note to tell him that I don't appreciate him treating me like a hypochondriac AND that if I was not so strong willed, I would have just left his office in Dec., not had the biopsy anywhere and continued to get sick. Oh and of course I'll add that since he didn't put me to SLEEP during the test, I obviously will NOT be going back to him for further test or anything else.

My 2nd letter is to doc #2 and will include a copy of my positive results. Just so he knows that someone can look like me - normal wt., not really feeling all that bad but presenting with unexplained anemia, and still have Celiac disease. And women with very light cycles do NOT just get anemia out of the blue. Really -he's not even trying!

And to doc #1, I have to send a thank you note and explain that I didn't trust his staff's comments for him to do the endo. and that's why I cancelled the procedure with him. Maybe he needs to get them some more training so they don't scare off his patients. But mostly I'm going to thank him - I think he made me have the colonscopy first maybe for the extra $ but in fairness, had I had colon cancer, it was more important to find that before going on to look for sprue. In the end he was right and I think he should know that.

I doubt anyone had that time to read my short story which isn't very interesting but oh I feel so much better now.

[jenvan]

I read Dang girl! Glad that part of your 'journey' is over now! Eat crow indeed I have a similar story...no time to write it all here though. I was finally diagnosed by my hematologist (one of my favorite docs--really great)…who suggested the test but was very doubtful I had it. I definitely wanted tested, as I just had a friend get diagnosed. She was shocked when the results came back sky high. Another doc said ‘oh yeah, that makes sense. When someone has unresponsive IBS/constipation, I always test them for Celiac.’ What??! I had been ‘unresponsive’ for about a decade and a half Needless to say, when I meet a doc I don't trust or who does not listen to me etc, I find someone else.

[key]

I understand you guys have had some very bad experiences with doctors and I have met some idiots too! I have realized that you have to be your own advocate and the internet is wonderful for that. My husband is a physician though and all the sueing that goes on, well, I am surprised any of them go into medicine. If the person who hates doctors so much and compared them to guns, well, my advice would be to not go to a doctor at all! If you hate them that bad, well I hope you never need a hospital or a doctor!!!

Alot of them are doing their best and for those, I think they should be commended, not grouped into this doctor bashing! I love my ob/gyn (sorry), and my son's pediatrician. It is your job to find one that will listen and meet your needs! Skip the one's with the GOD complex and move on. My oldest son was born with a birth defect and his skull would have been VERY mishapen had he not had corrective surgery, well he is a beautiful little boy, thanks to some wonderful doctors that went to school for MANY years to help these kids that have cosmetic issues. I even had some write off the cost of their part in the surgery. DOn't group all doctors together and don't go back to the idiots!

Monica

[floridanative]

I would like to state that I do NOT think all doctors are bad. As a matter of fact, until I got sick with shingles at 40, I never had any problems with any of them. So in other words, when I was going once a year for an antibiotic for a sinus or upper resp. infection, I could not complain about the docs at all. But when I had a severe case of walking phneumonia (sp?) oh sorry that was when I was actually only 38, the doc told me 'I don't think anything is wrong with you but we can do a chest x-ray if you have time'. He could not look me in the eye when he came in the room a short while later to say I was so sick I was two days away from being hosptalized. My bout with shingles is posted elsewhere. Three visits in 12 days for proper dx - that should not happen to anyone. The pain I suffered from not getting the antiviral drugs faster caused me to think I was dying but my neuro told me 99% of his patients that had what I had (complications from non treated shingles) had thoughts of suicide. I didn't consider killing myself - just thought there was no way I was surviving whatever was wrong with me.

Everyone who has a doctor that's a close friend KNOWS that insurance companies are ruining medicine but so many of my doctors have been horrible, which just compounds the first problem. So you're right it IS our job to find good doctors but really - do you think it's too much to ask to find one good one say in visiting 3 instead of 20???!! I certainly don't! And let me also add that I live in a major city and I've seen docs all over town. There is just a whole lot of bad doctors out there period!

Glad you have had some good luck with them and I have two I love - my pcp (who by the way didn't even catch my anemia but should have) and my dermatologist - who did catch my anemia. The rest of them did my no favors whatsoever. It was me doing them the favor paying all those copayments for nothing! I used to also love my neuro but when I asked why I would get shingles at 40 he said we don't know. Not oh you could have another auto-immune disease - we should check for that. Now I'm told my shingles was cause by Celaic disease. Go figure!

[ebrbetty]

not all doctors are bad, but I do agree that nowadays most are in it for the money, they need a nicer car, bigger home, wife needs more expensive outfits, belong to the "right" club, keep up with the jone's etc..that means fitting in more patients in a shorter amount of time..you have to talk fast when they only give you a 15 minute appt. and the doctors running 10 mins late!

JMO

[Canadian Karen]

This thread kind of reminds of a few years ago when the Provincial Government here in Ontario made it "acceptable" to bash teachers and the government was in a dispute with them. It got to be such a daily occurence to bash the teachers that even the parents and, believe it or not, the CHILDREN, thought it perfectly okay to teacher bash. Poor hubby went through hell during that period. What hurt me the most was the fact that Terry is one of those "dedicated" ones, coaches all the sports teams, is there at the school every night until 5 or 6 pm. Sure, there were ones who didn't put in a minute more than they had to, but for those who dedicate so much time and heart to their jobs, the bashing really hurt and left lasting scars. It would have been so tempting for Terry to assume the position of "Well, if this is the way we get treated, why bother?", but thank God he didn't. Those kids who love those extra-curricular activities would have been the ultimate losers.

It is kind of the same thing with doctors. There are real duds out there. But there are also really, really dedicated, hard-working doctors who took an oath and live by it. When I moved out of the city of Toronto, about a 45 minute drive, it would have been so easy for me to switch doctors to make it more convenient. I wouldn't dream of it, my family doctor has invested YEARS in caring for me, has always been there for me and has on more than one occasion, whether it is regarding myself or my children, has told me that she trusts my instincts implicitly. She has learned so much about celiac disease because of me, and from me, she is always open and willing to accept reports, studies, etc. that I print out and bring to her. She does not take the "I know it all" attitude.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that "bashing", whether it be teacher, doctors, or any profession, can cause such a negative effect that ultimately, the care we are trying to improve will, instead, get worse.

Hugs.

Karen

[floridanative]

I agree with Canadian Karen's point. Not all doctors are bad. But most people don't stand up to the ones that are. Instead they come here to vent and say things they wish they could say to their docs. I would be on high blood pressure meds if this forum didn't allow me do to just that.

And for the record, I think teachers are the most undervalued, underpaid people in this country.

[skoki-mom]

I understand you guys have had some very bad experiences with doctors and I have met some idiots too! I have realized that you have to be your own advocate and the internet is wonderful for that. My husband is a physician though and all the sueing that goes on, well, I am surprised any of them go into medicine. If the person who hates doctors so much and compared them to guns, well, my advice would be to not go to a doctor at all! If you hate them that bad, well I hope you never need a hospital or a doctor!!!

Alot of them are doing their best and for those, I think they should be commended, not grouped into this doctor bashing! I love my ob/gyn (sorry), and my son's pediatrician. It is your job to find one that will listen and meet your needs! Skip the one's with the GOD complex and move on. My oldest son was born with a birth defect and his skull would have been VERY mishapen had he not had corrective surgery, well he is a beautiful little boy, thanks to some wonderful doctors that went to school for MANY years to help these kids that have cosmetic issues. I even had some write off the cost of their part in the surgery. DOn't group all doctors together and don't go back to the idiots!

Monica

Thanks for that Monica. I don't even know why I read these threads as it tends to get my dander up. I guess if being a doctor is so easy, I am wondering why all these dr-bashers are not just going into medicine themselves. I know a LOT of doctors. Some are great people and lousy drs. Some are incredibly gifted physicians but total jerks at the bedside. Most are genuinely caring people who train and work very hard to try to do their best for people. I always feel clumped into this money-hungry drug-happy uncaring group of health care professionals and it doesn't make me feel so good. I am truly disappointed to hear of the bad experiences so many have had. However, I know myself that I, and the physicians I work with every day, are doing our best to give the best care we can, with the current knowledge and technology we have, to every child we take care of. Drs and nurses save lives every day where I work, but we couldn't do it without the wonderful resources (yes, those would be drugs) that we are very lucky to have access to in this part of the world.

Stepping off my soapbox now.........

[key]

I understand that people have had bad experiences and believe me, I have met plenty arrogant doctors(some of them very good), but we can't group them all into one category. Also, if there weren't SO many lawsuits going on, it would be much easier and CHEAPER I might add to provide good healthcare.

I diagnosed my son with celiac. Even after I had seen a Peds GI and he first thing told me to quit breastfeeding. WEll that didn't help obviously and I was a bit sad I cut the breastfeeding short, because this doctor had recommended it. He actually got sicker. My point though, is that this man was on the road to finding out what was wrong with my son. He has to work alot of hours and see's all kinds of kids with GI problems, including kids with cancer. He told me that he doesn't even like to see some of these kids, because when their child ends up not making it, the parents lash out at the medical community and sue! It is just wrong. When a doctor goes into this trying to help people and then they get sued over everything. It would be one thing if they were willingly harming people on purpose, but I think that usually they are doing their best. WE have to realize, that celiac is just in more recent years become more recognized.

I have had two kids with problems since they were born. I just do my best to stay on top of what is out there. Traveled across the country to find the best doctor I could for my son's surgery and had to pay for the majority myself. I wanted him in good hands. So I can definitely relate to both sides.

I am also a nurse and see that side too. THere are alot of caring nurses and good docs.

Ok, I am done now.

Monica

[Canadian Karen]

You are so right about the nurses....

When my boys were born, they were born at 31 weeks gestation (9 weeks early) and both of them weighed 3 lbs. 12 oz. at birth. Thankfully, their lungs were strong and only Connor needed CPAP for a day. They still had to stay in the special care nursery until they gained weight. Without those nurses nudging me along, supporting me, showing me that these tiny little guys aren't really as fragile as they looked, and instilling confidence in myself that I could care for these two little, tiny babies that could fit into Terry's hand, I think I would have lost it. It takes a special kind of person to be a nurse. They were wonderful to me and to my little bundles.....

Karen

[CeliacMe]

If you had a doctor diagnose you in the first visit you are the huge minority. Most of us have been to the doctor for a long long time, suffering the whole way. Being treated like hypochondriacs. There is not as much doctor bashing as there should be on here or was at one time. Many of us have good reason to doctor bash and we are not just "venting our frustrations", at least I'm not. In fact, I really hate the buggers and with good reason.

I resent the generalizations that we are just "venting" our "frustrations" coming from someone who was "diagnosed on the first visit". Until you have suffered for 15 years of being sick, weak and ill, literally dying and starving to death, then you can talk. When you have had doctors belittle you and tell you that you are a "actress", "overreacting" or a "hypochondriac" while you are suffering and feeling dead inside, than you can talk. When you have had to miss an appointment becuase you are sick in the doctors office, violently ill in their office bathroom before they believe you, than you can talk.

If we come on here to "doctor bash" believe me, it is with good reason.

In all of the "pro doctor" posts, you all say how "gifted" or "intelligent" doctors are. Or how "it's not easy". It has nothing to do with how "smart" the doctors are, the fact is that many doctors do not keep up on current events, and many are so arrogant and set in their ways that it affects patient care negatively.

Doctors are the scum of the earth due to this arrogance and the fact that the instant you don't have what they think you have, instead of continuing to dig for an answer, they tell you that its all in your head, take some immodium and you're overreacting. True scientists dig for the truth, modern doctors do not.

ps

md = more drugs.

Did you ever think if doctors weren't so arrogant, than they wouldn't piss off people and make them want to sue?

I understand that people have had bad experiences and believe me, I have met plenty arrogant doctors(some of them very good), but we can't group them all into one category. Also, if there weren't SO many lawsuits going on, it would be much easier and CHEAPER I might add to provide good healthcare.

I diagnosed my son with celiac. Even after I had seen a Peds GI and he first thing told me to quit breastfeeding. WEll that didn't help obviously and I was a bit sad I cut the breastfeeding short, because this doctor had recommended it. He actually got sicker. My point though, is that this man was on the road to finding out what was wrong with my son. He has to work alot of hours and see's all kinds of kids with GI problems, including kids with cancer. He told me that he doesn't even like to see some of these kids, because when their child ends up not making it, the parents lash out at the medical community and sue! It is just wrong. When a doctor goes into this trying to help people and then they get sued over everything. It would be one thing if they were willingly harming people on purpose, but I think that usually they are doing their best. WE have to realize, that celiac is just in more recent years become more recognized.

I have had two kids with problems since they were born. I just do my best to stay on top of what is out there. Traveled across the country to find the best doctor I could for my son's surgery and had to pay for the majority myself. I wanted him in good hands. So I can definitely relate to both sides.

I am also a nurse and see that side too. THere are alot of caring nurses and good docs.

Ok, I am done now.

Monica

[debmidge]

I didn't start to mistrust doctors until AFTER the years of going from doctor to doctor (Yes, we were firing doctor after doctor, and still not getting a "keeper") for over two decades. A decade is 10 years.

With each new doctor I had hope that this would be the one to get it right. As mentioned the one in 1994 was very arrogant when I questionned him about the diagnosis. So how many doctors then should I go through and still stay Pollyanna-ish? Back in 1977 to whenever there was no internet where you could type in the word "celiac" and get many listings for it and at least have a reference point. Medicine was still mysterious - you couldn't even get copies of your health records. You went from doctor to doctor for 3rd, 4th and 5th opinions.

I've heard people complain about stuff as stupid as on one visit at a salon that their hair wasn't done right and they want to find a better hairstylist. Take that feeling and apply it to doctors and imagine the frustration. And health is more important than hair.

Yes, I doctor bash and I would expect if I had "attitude" at work and didn't do my job right I'd be "bashed" by my customers too. As someone in the insurance field, I have to say that it isn't the lawsuits that are driving their liability premiums high to the point where they can't practice any longer and making health care more expensive, because the legal system throws out the majority of the cases without merit before they get to court, it's the constant practice of "bad medicine" that getting them into trouble. I know as I read the loss (claims) reports after the cases are over.

Additionally, how many doctors do I have to visit from the phone book before I realize that most of them don't care about the well-being of their patients as much as they should be. (a few of these doctors were referrals from our other doctors, so we weren't exactly just skimming the yellow pages).

For those who are in the field of medicine, or related to a Dr., you probably are responding to this "doctor bashing" with a little bias as you know them in a different way, not as their patients.

For those who have great doctors and can't understand this, then perhaps our "venting" sounds mean. And that brings us to a good question: how many who feel that this negative input is foundless went misdiagnosed for over 10 years with terrible symptoms to the point of not being able to leave your homes, working, enjoying life, ravaging your body?

If you can't find the empathy for these ill people, at least don't cast doubt on their experiences and feelings. I think the expression is to "put yourself in the other person's shoes and walk his walk." These ill people have good reason to feel anger towards the medical community. And yes, if there's a doctor in particular that you shouldn't go to then that info should be shared as well. I'm not saying all doctors are inept, so far just all of the ones my husband went to (7). And yes, one of them I'd like to sue, if my husband was agreeable.

As for my husband, every trip to a new doctor gave him hope. Each ended in disappointment and so we moved onto the next one as soon as my husband summoned up the energy and courage to do so. At times, he just couldn't go through it again and had to wait until he was mentally up to it again. We cried a lot together about all of this and swallowed our disappointments time after time.

This lack of empathy on the part of many people (those who see both sides of this issue aren't included in this) on this board, which occurs from time to time, makes me not want to participate on these boards. And this attitude of criticizing the ill surprises me very much because I felt that if anyone understood it'd be the people on the board. It gives me that same feeling when a gluten person downplays the gluten free diet of a celiac. Go figure.

[Guest nini]

the whole "hypochondriac" label brings up another sore point with me and Dr.s

When I was a very small child, probably 4 or 5, the Dr. my mom took me to TOLD HER THAT I WAS JUST BEING A HYPOCHONDRIAC about the pain in my belly... FOR THE REST OF MY YOUNG LIFE up until dx at age 33, my mom sincerely believed that I was being a hypochondriac and NEVER took my symptoms seriously. Believe me I was not making this up. I was not making myself spend hours in the bathroom doubled over in pain with explosive diarrhea, I didn't enjoy spending many nights kneeling over the porcelain throne vomiting up my lungs...

I have a very good reason to be angry at Dr.s I am one of those that came very close to dying before getting an answer.

I must say though that the Dr. that finally dx'ed me, recognized it right away, on my very first visit with him he recognized it. Told me that it was NOT in my head.

After years of Dr.s sending me to psychiatrists because they thought it was all in my head, this was a relief...

I recognize their are some good Dr.s out there, but they are in the minority, and even the good ones get God complexes after a while.

I work outside the medical profession in a Chiropractors office, and the Chiropractor that I work for has a touch of this God Complex too... even though he's not of a medical bent, he's still a "Dr." and won't let you forget it.

[jenvan]

Interesting discussion...as has been said here by some...it depends on the doctor. Some are very poor, some are amazingly gifted and have a real care and desire to help their patients. I have experienced both.

Skoki--I think you have a good challenge here I don't consider myself a doctor basher (I don't think you were talking about me anyway)... I am actually exploring med school and nutrition school right now. And even if one doesn't enter the medical field, there are a host of other ways to influence it.

[VydorScope]

Anytime we single out a group of ppl and target them with hate, its wrong. Its wrong to say all ppl from the middle east are evil, its wrong to say all goverment empoloyees are lazy, its wrong to say all postal workers will shoot to kill, its wrong to say all Jews are cheap, its wrong to say all Poles are stupid, and its wrong to bash all that are doctors.

Its wrong to loose site of the fact that doctors are HUMAN and as such are imperfect, and futher more as HUMANS they will vary in degree of caring, and compency. Its called reall life.

I have very little patence for blind hatred such as is on display here.

[floridanative]

As usual Vincent makes a good point. I would like to add that I don't hate any doctors and my post was me bashing some of my doctors which I personally can do with hating them. Do I think I saw several unknowledgeable, uncaring and unhelpful ones? Of course. That's why I kept switching to another one (firing them) and that is what I'll continue to do when necessary. And in my opinion most doctors could learn a thing or 100 from their own nurses. Kudos to all the wonderful nurses out there. Only one I encountered was horrid to me but when I saw the other ladies in the office make faces behind her back I realized that she was not rude just to me which made me smile.

[Canadian Karen]

Nurse Ratched, eh?

Karen

[key]

Ok, well let me tell you about my experience with celiac. I am the one that posted the pros of some good doctors. Just to let you know, I have had symptoms since high school, Anemic,(thought I had leukemia)bloating, went to ER several times, no one diagnosed me. Granted, I didn't have the "classic celiac" symptoms you guys have had. Like I said though, they thought it was a rare disease until recently.

I could be angry and rant and rave and hate ALL doctors. NOtice I said ALL doctors. I have TWO children that were born with birth defects. TWO. SINce the birth of my first son 6.5 years ago(he had 3 serious surgeries on his head). I was very depressed and stressed over him for like 3 years straight. Not counting that I had undiagnosed celiac. THen my third child was born and he has something called Neurofibromatosis1 and celiac. It took them almost a year to figure out why he was sick and he would lay around miserable. SPitting up and vomiting. THe Neurofibromatosis1 is a scarey disease that he will have for life. Not correctable with diet. If I had known about celiac and followed the diet, maybe my children would all have been born without birth defects.

SO, don't go telling me I don't feel sorry for people that have been undiagnosed with this disease. I went to doctors for 15 years undiagnosed and called hypochondriac too. I on the other hand realize that some doctors are losers and some are doing there best. I agree in some cases that lawsuits are brought on my doctors cocky attitudes, but not every doctor will have a wonderful bedside manner. It just isn't in them, but some of the best doctors aren't as friendly as they should be.

I am done now. I just wanted you to know that I have to live with the consequences of undiagnoses of celiac for the rest of my life and my children's lives, but I choose to move on and not sit and play the blame game.

Monica

[Canadian Karen]

Monica,

My take on it is that if ANYONE had the right to vilify doctors, you do, as it very well may be that due to the undiagnosed celiac disease, you and your children now have to live the consequences with the rest of your lives. In your shoes, if I played the "what if" game, imagining a life far easier than what you have had it with your children, it would be easy to harbour blood boiling resentment at the doctors who missed diagnosing you with celiac disease.

That being said, the fact that you don't have that hatred in your heart, and you have reconciled yourself with the fact that they are only human, some crappy, some awesome, some hopelessly overworked (I will never understand why the medical establishment makes doctors work these totally unreasonable 24 hours shifts, talk about a mistake waiting to happen.........), shows me that you are an incredible human being who realizes that hatred kept inside of you can eat away at you and destroy your health even more than celiac already has done.

Kudos to you and your wonderful outlook. Oh, did I mention, I think your children are lucky to have you as a mother?

Hugs.

Karen

[key]

Karen,

Yeah, by the end of my post ,I thought maybe I should be angry!! LOL!! I am not. Like you said, it is worse for everyone for a person to harbor anger over something that isn't fixable anymore. Does no one any good.

INspite of my kids health problems, I feel VERY blessed. I have a wonderful husband and 3 handsome little boys. I am kind of partial, but they are wonderful and intelligent, despite their health issues they have had. All, so far has been a learning experience and I AM A stronger person. We live in an imperfect world and doctors aren't GOd. Maybe that is the problem. I do realize nothing I say is going to make anyone sit back and think, "hey, maybe I should be more positive and not harbor so much anger towards someone that was human".

I did see a post here about someone's mother having all kinds of surgeries and it sounded like they had never checked for celiac. It does make you wonder how some of these guys ever graduated from school. Maybe if I was sitting by the pot for 15 years, I would feel differently!

Vincent made a wonderful point.

Ok, I gotta go clean my house.

Monica