Cross-reactivity?

[jerseyangel]

I have that peanut butter thing, too. I'm ok with it as long as I don't have it too often--once or twice a week, with days in between.

[Guest BERNESES]

Interesting- I've been wondering if it has anything to do with the fat content (9because a gluten free diet is pretty low fat), sugar or just my wacky body interesting that other people experienced it too. I seem to do better with Maranatha peanut butter which, if I recaall correctly, just has nuts, honey and salt in it. i bought the kind you don't have to mix, but you do have to refrigerate it. It's SO tasty.

Rachel- I wanted to ask you a question about your eczema. I have it in my ear- at the entrance to the ear canal and before I went gluten-free I used to get horrid ear infections chronically. I haven't, knock on wood, had one infection since going gluten-free, but wheneverr I have a reaction my eczema gets really really bad. The entrance to the canal cracks open (it's really painful). anyway, have you noticed that other things make your eczema worse besides accidental glutening- like soy, quinoa, lactose? I can't figure out if anything else aggravates it but it's amazing how regularly my ears freak when I have a reaction.

Al- I made the mistake of having two glasses of wine with dinner last night (we had friends over) and I feel like absolute poop today. I know my tolerance is down because I hardly ever drink anymore but I think that I won't be imbibing again for awhile. Sometimes I'm OK, other times it's just not worth it. Yuck!

[Rachel--24]

Berneses,

I dont recall ever having excema before going gluten-free. It seems like I only get it from dairy....if anything else causes it I'm not aware of it. It always flares up when I eat dairy...its on my hands mainly and occasionally I get little dry patches on my face. I've had it for 2 months straight w/out eating dairy though so thats what kind of threw me off...until this week when I realized my supplements both have dairy in them.

I dont know if gluten would cause it too cuz I dont intentionally eat it and have never tested it. Since it was so bad for 2 months now I was thinking maybe it was from work...you know from the cold air in the dairy dept. Anyways I've worked in dairy many times in the past 16 years and never had dry skin on my hands before I got sick. Also I wear 2 pairs of gloves now and all the previous years I never wore gloves while working so it has to be the dairy that I'm eating causing it. It was happening while I was on disability too.

[mookie03]

Berneses,

that is my worst nightmare-- peanut butter is my biggest staple!!! (used to be a whole wheat bagel w/ pb, now just the pb!!) Please tell me that wont happen to me!

My thoughts on that are that sometimes if you overeat a food, ur body will not get enough balance. PB is great for protein and fat, but u need some variety in your diet so it shouldnt be the ONLY source of protein/fat. i think sometimes we fall into ruts and our body just asks us for something a little different

And also, i DEF react to certain foods only when i am glutened (even from CC)- just makes it all the more fun, a little guessing game!

[Guest BERNESES]

Mookie- It probably won't happen to you! really- I think I just overdid it because I felt so sick and it was really the only thing I craved....I figured I'd better just eat it because I wasn't eating anything else. I seem to be tolerating it now in small, rotated amounts.

[slpinsd]

I read on another website that CORN is involved in cross-reactivity? (soy, casein, corn, oats) The light is finally coming on! Before being diagnosed, I was reacting SEVERELY to High Fructose Corn Syrup- figured it was the sugar content, or the fructose. Well- I few times I got SEVERE reactions from Trader Joe's chicken taquitos (CORN tortillas)...........and just a side note----I put lots of CORN Oil and Canola Margarine in the the batch of cookies. No more corn for me!!!!!!!!!!

So I think it may be cross-reactivity after all. Is cross-reactivity something that gets better, or worse? Is it temporary, or permanent?

[Guest BERNESES]

So I think it may be cross-reactivity after all. Is cross-reactivity something that gets better, or worse? Is it temporary, or permanent?

I HATE high fructose corn syrup- it is so bad for you. I don't know the answer to your question, but I really hope it is something that gets better and is temporary. please, please, please.

[jerseyangel]

I was wondering about the corn syrup--I've been eating Whole Fruit Sorbet at night lately, and notice in the morning, uncomfortable cramping and not quite normal #2. I can't eat corn, but thought I could get away with the syrup. Does it give anyone else problems--aside from the fact that I know it's not the best thing for people anyway?

[Guest mvaught]

thank you thank you thank you fo rthis post. the cross- reactivity certainly explains a lot of gluten-like reactions in me too (when i know tha i am being careful). i was having some problems with tofu based "cheese" (because i have eliminated dairy), but other veggie cheese seems ok - the cross-reactivity that rachel mentioned explains in my case why i seem okay sometimes with such foods, but not others. i often find tht i can be okay with soy based things, but sometimes not - and when i am not - it seems like the concentration of it matters (soy milk will be fine on the same day tofu cheese isn't). i rarely react to corn (like taco shells), but sometimes, it seems that i do react. same with goat cheese - often it is okay (though for a little while it absolutely wasn't), but at times i react to it. that seems to have gotten better and better. i don't eat meat (only seafood), so i rely a lot on soy (though, i have also heard that soy is bad for thyroid, i do have hypothyroidism - however, i just can't seem to bring myself ot give up soy - since i don't eat meat) and when tolerable goat, buffalo, sheep cheeses. anyway, the cross-reactivity makes so much sense to me. so you all think that maybe it will get better in time - especially of i limit the frequency of my intake? anway, again - this post is extremely helpful and informative - thanks again!!

-michelle

[mookie03]

Michelle- thats exactly what i was going through w/ soy. I have occasional problems with it but not always and it seems to depend how much soy ive had and in what context so it seems like it could only be something like cross-reactivity (otherwise it would always affect me right?!) So i have had the same experience. I do think that it will get better after a while but i hope that is not just wishful thinking

My guess is that once your body gets adjusted to not getting gluten, it will stop trying to treat food like its gluten, i mean that would make sense right?! B/c i agree with you, now that i have had to give up dairy (at least temporarily), i could not give up soy too!

[Guest mvaught]

Stefi - makes sense to me. i guess we will find out, eh? go soy, my little cheese-like friend - lol. eating soy is great with the no dairy - especially since rice cheese has stuff like, milk protein in it (i mean, who eats rice cheese for fun? i never understood that). so, i have found that the Vegan (purple wrapper) and Veggy brand (yellow wrapper with green writing) sliced cheeses never bother me. The Veggy brand melts better and i think it tastes better too. It seems like the blocks of cheese are the ones that tend to bother me. Soymilk basically I find is okay (but then again, i don't drink it more than once a day - at most and even that i don't really do). i was having problems with basically everything i ate for a while even after gluten-free - but that is getting better. So, i think (and by think i mean hope), we are right and the cross-reactivity will just stop being a problem eventually. so, her eis the question - should we limit our intake so that our bodies get better in general and don't have to be affected from the cross-reactivity OR is it better to just eat as normal - put up with the pain so that our bodies can begin to recognize that it isn't gluten (more or less - which is better?) would not eating it at all (which i am not going to do - but theoretically), make the reaction worse because like gluten, it gets eliminated OR would it make it better sooner so that we can add it back eventually. does this question make sense? i think i am even confusing myself. anyway, what do you think - i have no idea.

-michelle

[slpinsd]

so, her eis the question - should we limit our intake so that our bodies get better in general and don't have to be affected from the cross-reactivity OR is it better to just eat as normal - put up with the pain so that our bodies can begin to recognize that it isn't gluten (more or less - which is better?) would not eating it at all (which i am not going to do - but theoretically), make the reaction worse because like gluten, it gets eliminated OR would it make it better sooner so that we can add it back eventually. does this question make sense? i think i am even confusing myself. anyway, what do you think - i have no idea.

-michelle

Ditto. That's my question, too. If the body is treating it "like gluten" could it also be damaging your intestines "like gluten", or is it just producing the symptoms without the damage?

[Guest BERNESES]

I know I read somewhere that to the best of my knowledge the only thing that can cause the damage that gluten causes is gluten and in some VERY rare cases, casein (the protein in dairy). I've been trying to figure out over the last month or so if I really am that sensitive to gluten or if there are other intolerances/cross reactivity going on. This is what I've figured out so far (No eating out and a I keep a really detailed food journal):

Lactose seems to be OK in limited amounts

Soy- same but depends on the context, actually bothers me more than lactose.

corn- fine

rice- fine

quinoa- haven't tried it again yet and I LOVE quinoa pasta.

But when I get glutened (i've got a touch of it today after hanging with my 2 year old niece who is the gluten queen) I pretty much try to stay really low key and just eat meat, veggies, etc. I don't think it would actually cause damage if you did, but it just doesn't make me feel good so it's not worth it.

I've also been trying food rotation (like not eating rice two days in a row, etc) and that seems to be helping too. I think, sad to say, that I'm starting to believe I really am THAT sensitive to gluten.

[Judyin Philly]

WOW where have I been that I missed this thread.

Thanks Rachel, for posting the link from the 'redman' thread #15.

I had never EVER heard of this 'cross-reactivity' but I guess it's been alluded too in posts before.

The #15 post from John on the other thread and this one seems to give me the answers to why I've had so much trouble in the 3rd month and now 10th month..can't even believe it's been that long

Almost a year...gracious....

the milk was harder for me too mookie and the peanut butter..oie...It really does make sense to rotate and not eat the same things every day..

the High Fructose I've wondered about in the gluten-free breads..OH SO MUCH TO LEARN. WHAT WOULD I DO WITHOUT YOU ALL.

JUDY IN PHILLY

[Rachel--24]

Personally, I think its best to avoid soy and dairy if you are still having lots of reactions to various foods. The reason is that even if these foods dont cause blunted villi they *are* a big factor when it comes to leaky gut. Gluten intolerance (with or w/out Celiac) can cause leaky gut and this doesnt necessarily heal itself just because we stop eating gluten. Other things can get in the way of healing and dairy, soy, eggs and corn can all keep the intestinal lining inflamed if you are intolerant to them. Leaky gut is the main cause of food sensitivities so if you keep developing more of them then your gut is still leaky and if you're gluten-free then something else is causing the inflammation to continue.

Open Original Shared Link

[Judyin Philly]

THANKS RACHEL, Gluten intolerance (with or w/out Celiac) can cause leaky gut and this doesnt necessarily heal itself just because we stop eating gluten THIS IS SCAREY WILL READ THE ARTICLE YOU SENT.

HAS THE DRS YOUR SEEING STILL BEEN HELPING YOU? I WONDERED HOW YOU WERE.

JUDY

[Guest mvaught]

Thanks Rachel - yes, how are you?

-Michelle

[mookie03]

I just try to listen to my body...i mean if it is treating soy and dairy like gluten, even to a lesser degree, it is probably best to avoid those things a bit. Although in my case, i generally will just avoid it for a week or so when im symptomatic and then eat them again when im feeling better. I know, thats probably not the best thing in the long run but it seems impossible to me right now to eliminate everything, especially heading into finals, etc.

Michelle- u raise some great questions, i wish i had some answers!!! But berneses, i do remember reading what you are talking about- that only gluten can cause that damage. i have no idea what that means in terms of leaky guy, though. Why is this so complicated?!

[Guest mvaught]

I just try to listen to my body...i mean if it is treating soy and dairy like gluten, even to a lesser degree, it is probably best to avoid those things a bit. Although in my case, i generally will just avoid it for a week or so when im symptomatic and then eat them again when im feeling better. I know, thats probably not the best thing in the long run but it seems impossible to me right now to eliminate everything, especially heading into finals, etc.

Michelle- u raise some great questions, i wish i had some answers!!! But berneses, i do remember reading what you are talking about- that only gluten can cause that damage. i have no idea what that means in terms of leaky guy, though. Why is this so complicated?!

hey stefi,

i am the same way - try to listen to my body. it think it is an acceptable method. it is how i figured out celiac. better than nothing, right? anyway, i am like you - i eat soy and then lay off (really it is only the soy cheese and yogurt that ever seem to bother me if at all...the soy milk is always ok - so as rachel suggested, it think it is a concentration thing). i don't do the dairy, but i have to limit goat cheese - which like the soy is often okay, then when i eat too much of it is not. i had a friend that had food allergies and her doctor actually made her do a rotation of foods that mildly bothered her (so she would for example be on corn for a week and off it for a week). in fact, over time, she was able to add back things more regularly and rotte things that used to bother her a great deal. i've seen a lot of people on the site that went off dairy and were able to add it back after a while (though sometimes a long while - and again, in moderation). so maybe we are on the right track.

-michelle

[Guest BERNESES]

rachel- You know what? You made an excellent point- as usual. Even though those foods don't cause damage, the leaky gut issue isn't going to get any better. I didn't even think of that!

[Judyin Philly]

Boy, i'm really slow at getting this..have read the thread 3 times and get more and more each time..maybe one day i'll get it in detail but THINK I have the major concept now..

question..what's quinoa pasta made of??? I just got some last week at the health food store..should i take it back and just keep the linited things i'm eating ...and not mix insomething new??

Comon sense says YES.. but then my peanut butter..first dairy now my p/b???

so just very it ..not everyday...mabye every 3 ???

I was like you rachel..drank milk 3-4 times a day loved and have always liked milk but always skimmed milk 0 fat...for over 20 years..

judy in philly

[mookie03]

Judy- no worries, i didnt give up my 5x/day peanut butter habit and you shouldnt have to either! Michelle- i think the food rotation thing is supposed to work well (i dont know the medical reasons for it but it seems to make sense)...I am getting ready to reintroduce lactose w/ lactaid (my self-test for lactose v. casein) but its hard to do b/c i have been feeling so good! Isnt it weird how i miss milk SO much but dont want to drink it b/c im scared?! i guess none of you will find that weird b/c thats the way i feel about gluten as well as im sure you do too...

[happygirl]

In terms of the research standpoint, the drug that Dr. Fasano is working on for Celiac would then in effect help others with leaky gut, right? (the drug helps to keep the "gates" closed)

[Judyin Philly]

In terms of the research standpoint, the drug that Dr. Fasano is working on for Celiac would then in effect help others with leaky gut, right? (the drug helps to keep the "gates" closed)

IS THAT THE ONE THAT STARTS WITH "z"

DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT LINK TO THIS DR IS...THINK IN THE

RADMAN POSTS.

JUDY IN PHILLY

[slpinsd]

Zonulin.......?