Omg...i Might Be On To Something

[AndreaB]

Well, I do like to be informed. It's a matter of wading through everything and trying to figure out who's telling the truth. That's what I hate.

Ignorance is bliss sometimes though isn't it.

I did find a dentist in eastern washington that does cavitat's which is a special imaging that they use to detect cavitations. He also does extractions so I may just go to him for that part of what I need to have done. I asked about his other prices to. Hopefully I'll hear back tomorrow. I emailed him.

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Here's a link to root canals and cancer for anyone interested.

Open Original Shared Link

I know my doctor has told me they have been implicated in women with breast cancer as well.

There is another good site which I think Rachel already linked.....tuberose.

"Eye-opening" doesn't quite say it all...

[Rachel--24]

Okay...I made a decision after reading this stuff....even though I didnt want to read it.

Root canals is not a problem for me...amalgams are out. I need to detox but before I go through months of it I gotta look into everything.

My head is very toxic....dunno why but something is making it a breeding ground for Lyme and other bugs.

Cavitations...this is a new one for me. However....it could apply to me. I keep seeing mention of the wisdom teeth....breeding ground for bacteria...cavitations...Lyme.....this area can be very toxic with or without the wisdom teeth in place....etc.

Sooo...I got my 4 wisdom teeth pulled as a teenager. I would bet money on infection here. I think I cannot ignore this after what I've read over the past two days.

Re wisdom teeth: If the site was not cleaned out well years ago when your wisdom teeth were removed, you will find a million Lyme critters and associates in there. The same disaster if it was cleaned out recently and it was not done right - it is the playground for all the microbes of all kinds.

Even existing wisdom teeth (and surrounding area) that are still in your mouth can be home

to these bugs.

Apparantly theres only a handful of LLMD's qualified for identifying and treating it. Its HARD to diagnose. You gotta get the x-rays to one of these guys and if the infection is there...they know how to find it.

I think I know where I wanna go...

I feel like there is ALOT of significance here. My Lyme is only in my head and theres gotta be a reason for that.

This would be the most likely area of infection....it would explain alot. Remember Dr. Amy found all of the stress was in my head...ALL of it. From the shoulders up.

Kidneys and Liver also...but that would be from the toxins...no doubt.

I'm gonna get this looked at before I do all the chelation...it might be the most important piece that I've missed thus far. It cant hurt to look into it...it could only hurt to ignore it.

There is pain and swelling in this area since the onset of symptoms.

I read that a 38 year old women became ill after having a root canal. It turned out her underlying cause was cavitations where the wisom teeth were pulled at age 12. A breeding ground for bacteria...the toxins from the root canal must have pushed her immune system too far.

It could be the case for me???

Scott posted this on LymeNET awhile back....

This is from Dr. K.....saying that there are 3 categories of patients that he sees...

20% do not have Bb

50% have Bb but Bb or co-infections are NOT the cause of their symptoms

30% have Bb and co-infections that are the cause of their symptoms.

I'm almost certain I'm in that 50% range. Its there....but not the cause of my sickness.

Then there is this post...

All I can add here is that I have watched Dr. K. in action for many years. If he said 50% of the patients he treats and has treated over the years have Bb, but Bb or co-infections are not the cause of their symptoms, he is putting it at the very low end.

When I listen to him in person and in a private setting, the number is much, much higher. Since he basically treats only chronic disease, literally everyone that walks in turns up with Lyme along with others as below.

I have yet to run into or meet any patient with a chronic disease who does not have Bb and co-infections that either show up right away or show up after they have been treated for a variety of other toxic infections, such as mycoplasma, herpes 6, Trichomonade, chlamydia pneu, toxoplasmosis, rickettsia, leptospirose, mutated strep, tuberculose, shiggella, lamblia and others.

Parasites. Ususally, and that is the most common, it starts with chemical and heavy metal toxicity, followed in short order by dental infections that eventually cause the cavitations (holes in jawbone). The latest toxicity that he finds in more and moare patients recently is plastics!!!!!!!!!! Avoid them!

It is difficult to distinguish between all these different infections; in order to decide who opened the door for which one. It is possible that borrelia open the door to the immune system which are then followed by a variety of opportunistic infections. Often the secondary infections are diagnosed, but the borrelia is overlooked. It could be the other way around.

I dont know what opened the door for what in my case but I'm getting the x-rays and getting this ruled in or out. My bet is this is where my Lyme is living.

If this area is riddled with infection...and it gets cleaned out....no doubt my body is gonna detox a whole better...my immune system is gonna be a whole lot stronger and the pain is gonna be a whole lot less.

This stuff doesnt seem to come to me for no good reason.....so far it seems like everything comes to me because its a piece of the puzzle. Weird....but true.

Thanks to all who brought up more of the dental issues and pushed me into this direction.

If nothing comes of it at least I'll end up pretty knowledgeable about dental infections.

[AndreaB]

Rachel,

In that quote do you know if it was plastics, like tupperware, etc. or was it referring to the composites.

The dentist I found in eastern washington knows about cavitations.

I have a dentist on the list my doctor gave me that you can send xrays to and he'll tell you whether you have cavitations. I can pm it to you if you are interested. I think checking this out would be a good thing.

I would suspect between my wisdom teeth removal, amalgams and root canal that the ball has started rolling. I'm determined to take care of what I can which won't be nearly enough, but it'll be a start.

[NoGluGirl]

Dear Rachel,

Get this! My mother, who has triglycerides and cholesterol levels in the 300s and high BP says she does not think I have Lyme, Babesia, or Celiac. As you can tell by her record, she knows so much about health. Did I mention she has diarrhea everyday unless she takes Levsin, Levinex, Promethazine, and Ammodium AD liquid stuff? Talk about BS.

She really makes me angry! God I want to strangle her! Some people are so lucky murder is both a crime and a sin! I told her, every time I listened to her or Dad about my health, that ended up bad. She told me I did not have gallbladder disease, too! If I would have listened to her, I would have ended up with that thing rupturing inside me, and God knows what else!

Sincerely,

NoGluGirl

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Fascinating info on cavitations. Rachel.

Okay, I know this is too simplistic--but what about those antibacterial dental rinses? Wouldn't they kill microorganisms in the mouth? Or would they just make a select few of them stronger?

[miamia]

Andrea....I read the link you posted.

I had read about the testing on rabbits in one of the posts on LymeNET.

I just cant believe I never knew any of this stuff was so toxic or harmful. It blows my mind.

On the one hand I sort of feel fortunate to be learning...so that I'm informed and dont end up causing more harm to myself down the road.

And then on the other hand I just want to put my hands over my ears and eyes and just walk around going "La -la-la-la-la-la-......I cant hear you...I cant see you....La-la-la-la"

Yeah...I just wanna block it all out and go back to normal when I didnt know anything and I wasnt sick...and I could eat all kinds of garbage...and I was just a normal fast food eating citizen who'd never heard of a neurotoxin.

Anyone else??

Rachel-

I feel this way alot!!!! I wish sometimes someone could suck the knowledge out of me. I was always healthy before I got sick. I ate well but now I look at the ingredients and I know what everything means and I wonder if it is really "healthy" I am happy with some of the stuff of learned but I think I know alittle too much. It is hard not to become a hypochondriac with all the stuff we know now.

[Rachel--24]

Okay, I know this is too simplistic--but what about those antibacterial dental rinses? Wouldn't they kill microorganisms in the mouth? Or would they just make a select few of them stronger?

Alison...antibacterial rinse wont work for a cavitation. I'm pretty sure the infection is in the bone with cavitations....the infections would have to be surgically removed I think. The cavitations can be there...but not necessarily pain...just chronic illness.

I think if I have cavitations they most likely started seriously affecting my health when I had the dental work done which exposed me to alot of mercury.

Andrea...in the post it was plastics in dentistry which they were referring to.

[Rachel--24]

Interesting...

Lyme Disease and Bartonella affect the jaw very strongly, especially the first molar area. These are accompanied by viral and fungal infections, because microorganisms live in colonies. You try to wipe out one with abx, the other one takes their place. It is a merry-go-round - not very merry for the patient that has to suffer through all this.

The doctor who helped us get well states readily that he has not seen a Lyme patient with a healthy first molar. Open your mouth - first molar defective - next stop - Lyme infection.

The surgeon that removed my cavitations stressed that the procedure would not cure Lyme. However, riding the body of the hugh toxic load, along with a detoxing regimen, will greatly aid one in the ability to overcome this disease.

In some patients improvement has been remarkable

This just makes alot of sense for me because I know that I have alot of imflammation in my head....I know I have fungal colonies here (candida) as well as Lyme, Babesia and other bacteria.

Andrea I already found the Dr. I want to send my X-rays to.....he's highly recommended for this...and not far from me (driving distance). There's two top recomendations and the other guy is in New York. So I'll take the one who's near me.

I'm gonna try to contact his office today.

[dlp252]

Okay, I'm finding the discussion on cavitations interesting. I've read a little bit about it on the mercury boards, but somehow didn't associate it with my situation, but reading some of the stuff posted here, now I'm not so sure. I also had all my wisdom teeth out when I was a teenager. I don't remember that being a turning point or anything, but then, I'm not sure I would have because I didn't pay attention to much back then, lol. At least now I TRY to keep a shabby little journal for my health.

Anyway, with those on top of the two root canals and given the fact that many of my symptoms are in my head as well, I wouldn't be surprised if these were contributing factors. I'm confused about this...

If the site was not cleaned out well years ago when your wisdom teeth were removed, you will find a million Lyme critters and associates in there.

Is that in people who are ALREADY infected with Lyme at the time of the removal? Or are they saying something else?

I think the Valerian may be the trouble. I know it gave me difficulty. The morning supplements should not be a problem. However, the 5-HTP could be the source. My father said it could do that, too. He used to work for an herbal company. Anyway, those are two possibilities.

I just started taking the 5-HTP, but it certainly could be contributing, lol.

And then on the other hand I just want to put my hands over my ears and eyes and just walk around going "La -la-la-la-la-la-......I cant hear you...I cant see you....La-la-la-la"

...

Anyone else??

Oh yes...I feel like this a lot these days.

Well, I do like to be informed. It's a matter of wading through everything and trying to figure out who's telling the truth. That's what I hate.

Me too. It's really hard to know what true sometimes, but after seeing some improvement over the last few months I think I'm getting a clearer picture though. It doesn't sometimes stop me from doubting either though.

Apparantly theres only a handful of LLMD's qualified for identifying and treating it. Its HARD to diagnose. You gotta get the x-rays to one of these guys and if the infection is there...they know how to find it.

I think I know where I wanna go...

Sometime in the future I MAY be asking for this one too. I can't rule out the dental issues. I've had dental issues my entire life. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a big factor for me as well.

Scott posted this on LymeNET awhile back....

This is from Dr. K.....saying that there are 3 categories of patients that he sees...

20% do not have Bb

50% have Bb but Bb or co-infections are NOT the cause of their symptoms

30% have Bb and co-infections that are the cause of their symptoms.

I'm wondering if that puts me in the 30%...according to Scott, my main problem was the lyme?????? definitely He said he saw metals, but they seemed to be taken care of by the chlorella and other supplements. He said candida didn't seem to be a big stressor, probably because I've been doing the diet and starving the little guys out and using some natural anti fungals. Thyroid was my major organ affected and that was due to lyme??? I'm just dumbfounded by this whole saga, lol.

This stuff doesnt seem to come to me for no good reason.....so far it seems like everything comes to me because its a piece of the puzzle. Weird....but true.

This is sort of how I feel about my whole life. Even when bad things happen, it usually turns out that something good comes from it or it leads to something good.

[CarlaB]

WTH??

I did not know this about Doxy....you cant take it during the summer??

With doxy, NO sun at all. I thought that tetracycline was okay in the sun. I know there are "cyclines" that are okay in the sun.

Thank you for all the happy birthdays!

[CarlaB]

I was reading some lymenet posts over the weekend and read a post that reminded me of what you said regarding your lyme situation... saw the name was sixgoofykids and the location was ohio so I'm assuming that's you, right?

That's me.

I'm not posting/reading much there anymore .... I realized that it wasn't helping me, only getting me down .... there are so many there who never seem to get better ... that gets me down .... it was a help at first, but this thread is more supportive/hopeful.

Oh, and those are four of my goofy kids in my avatar!

[CarlaB]

Cavitations is interesting. I had my wisdom teeth out AFTER my first bout with Lyme symptoms. It was that summer that the Lyme symptoms went away. I got a lot of rest, lost weight that I had gained, exercised a lot, got lots of sun, spent time lots of time with a guy/friend-only (I had a bad broken heart before that) ... that's all I did and the symptoms went away. So, I don't *think* that cavitations are an issue for me. At least I hope not!

All my molars have fillings. They all had amalgams in it until I had them removed. So, I guess they're all bad. One in the back will require a cap next time it needs replacing because it's so bad ... are caps a problem? I would get a porcelain one.

[AndreaB]

Andrea...in the post it was plastics in dentistry which they were referring to.

I'm assuming that would include the sealants they use now as well as composites?

I don't know what composites are made from.

Given amalgams or composites I would think the composites would be better for you. Seems like trading one evil for a lesser evil.

The doctor in eastern Washington does compatability testing, so that's another plus for him.

Carla,

You could always have xrays taken and send them into someone who can try to read them. From what I've heard it's difficult but not impossible.

[Rachel--24]

I'm confused about this...

Is that in people who are ALREADY infected with Lyme at the time of the removal? Or are they saying something else?

No you dont have to already have Lyme at the time that teeth are extracted and cavitations start forming.

Lyme and (the other critters) can find their way into the places which are most desireable for them. Basically the weakened and most toxic areas of your body. So in my case...if I have cavitations....especially where the wisdom teeth were...I think it was just an inviting place for Lyme to hang out.

I read that Lyme likes the jaw area...ALOT. I'm assuming its because this is a toxic area for alot of people...mercury vapors from amalgams tend to settle into the jaw tissue. Then you've got root canals, bacteria, etc. Where theres mercury theres always gonna be some "unwanted guests".

I think the jaw area sort of gets ignored alot.....but it really is a place where infections can settle in and affect virtually any area of your body.

You dont necessarily have to feel pain in the jaw...it can just become a systemic illness. Its not the infections themselves that cause disease....its the toxins they produce. The toxins make the body totally acidic...and unhealthy and we get chronic illness.

I'm wondering if that puts me in the 30%...according to Scott, my main problem was the lyme?????? definitely He said he saw metals, but they seemed to be taken care of by the chlorella and other supplements. He said candida didn't seem to be a big stressor, probably because I've been doing the diet and starving the little guys out and using some natural anti fungals. Thyroid was my major organ affected and that was due to lyme??? I'm just dumbfounded by this whole saga, lol.

The thing with ART is that the stuff that shows up are obviously putting alot of stress on your system...and its showing that. Ususally one session will not show *everything* that is going on....its something you do repeatedly and as layers are removed...others tend to reveal themselves.

Everything that showed up in my sessions is not gonna be the end of it...other things are gonna show up for sure. Thats how it works....with chronic illness the stuff piles on top of each other...one infection leads to another..etc. They dont all reveal themselves at once. Sometimes Lyme wont show up for a person until alot of other layers have been addressed...and then there is Lyme.

Thats my understanding of ART...it works in layers.

I would probably die from shock if I dont have cavitations.

Current Use of Term

[dlp252]

Man....I am so nervous about this.

I don't blame you, it's scarey stuff!!! I wouldn't be surprised if I've got this going on too. I had my first root canal in 1996...that's the area in my jaw that really hurts when it acts up. I mentioned both to my old dentist and to Dr. A that there is pain in the gum when I floss...this isn't the normal gum pain when you don't take care of your teeth, it's different and weird and its in the gum, not the root and I'm wondering now if that root canal isn't starting to fail and cause problems.

Then there's the stupid wisdom teeth which were extracted sometime in the late 60s or early 70s and am POSITIVE they didn't know or care about anything like this back then.

[AndreaB]

With some fancy footwork we may be able to swing me getting everything done by the dentist in eastern WA. He's a biological dentist and has been removing amalgams safely for 28 years. I didn't ask about his protocol as he's a biological dentist and I figured they were on the up and up with procedures.

If I have cavitations I don't know how much that would be and it would be above what I've already guessed so I may have to pick and choose what I have done.

I've made an appointment for the end of August so we'll know more in 6 months.

Rachel,

Cavitations sound scary and I would think I have them as well but haven't had the "straw that broke the camels back" so to speak.

[AndreaB]

Then there's the stupid wisdom teeth which were extracted sometime in the late 60s or early 70s and am POSITIVE they didn't know or care about anything like this back then.

I wouldn't think that was something they were concerned with either. Doesn't appear that they are today either.

[dlp252]

No you dont have to already have Lyme at the time that teeth are extracted and cavitations start forming.

Lyme and (the other critters) can find their way into the places which are most desireable for them. Basically the weakened and most toxic areas of your body. So in my case...if I have cavitations....especially where the wisdom teeth were...I think it was just an inviting place for Lyme to hang out.

Oh, and I just want to say in advance (or I guess in this case after the fact, lol) that I'm sorry if I am being clueless...thanks for always answering me with patience and tack. I just feel like my brain isn't working right now.

I've made an appointment for the end of August so we'll know more in 6 months.

Oh yay...something exciting to look forward too. Who'd a thought we all could get so excited about going to the dentist. (or is it just me )

[CarlaB]

TMJ pain is another symptom of Lyme ... I guess this explains why. Now, my TMJ problems are because I had a terrible bite, part of my bone is worn away, but I'm sure the Lyme didn't help at all and took advantage of the situation making it worse.

Fortunately, all the TMJ work I've had over the past two years has fixed it. We're still working on my teeth, but they seem to be starting to come together better. I'll have to zoom in on myself in the avatar picture ... my teeth look SO different from when we started! So does the whole lower part of my face.

I'll ask my LLMD about cavitations. I'm hoping that since I had Lyme issues before the wisdom teeth were pulled, and in fact, my Lyme symptoms went away soon after they were pulled, that I don't have a problem with them. Especially since my symptoms went away for several years after they were pulled.

[AndreaB]

Oh yay...something exciting to look forward too. Who'd a thought we all could get so excited about going to the dentist. (or is it just me )

I get excited about everyone's appointments as well.

This one for me is taking care of my amalgams which is something my doctor had written down for me to take care of.

[AndreaB]

TMJ pain is another symptom of Lyme ... I guess this explains why. Now, my TMJ is because I had a terrible bite, part of my bone is worn away, but I'm sure the Lyme didn't help at all and took advantage of the situation making it worse.

I don't know about TMJ. Could that be part to do with cavitations? Maybe your doctor would know.

[CarlaB]

I don't know about TMJ. Could that be part to do with cavitations? Maybe your doctor would know.

Mine was a structural problem due to a bad bite. But I don't think it's a coincidence that the pain finally started bothering me enough to go to the trouble to fix it at the same time my Lyme symptoms started appearing.

TMJ problems are a symptom of Lyme, I would guess because of the tendency of bacteria to live in the jaw.

[diamondheart]

Just popping in to say hi. Been a little preoccupied with reading novels and other stuff. Other stuff: just had my IUIs today and yesterday. I'm feeling very positive about it as the timing was very good. I'm going to be a nervous wreck the next two weeks before we find out the results. If you don't know what an IUI is, you'll just have to google it .

Digestive wise, I had PPP (practically perfect poop). The only thing I'm doing for my digestion right now is eating the home brewed kefir, also referred to as milk beer! It's good stuff for the gut, I'm convinced!

Hasta, Claire

[Rachel--24]

Seems like pieces are starting to really come together for me today....

Except I couldnt get through to the Dr.'s Ofice...the one I wanna send my x-rays to.

Anyways...cavitations seem very likely given the amount of toxicity I've experienced and also the fact that it feels like an infection.

It really does...there is always imflammation in my head....my glands are always swollen. No matter what I eat...or dont eat...no matter what ...that imflammation persists.....like it would if I had an infection.

Then I read this....it was an article about whether to remove amalgams first...or address cavitations first.

Another consideration in amalgam removal with someone who may have cavitations is the effect it could have on the microbial population of the oral cavity.

While I