Rip Off

[Jo.R]

My 4 yr old hit her head and had to go to the ER for stitches (inch + long and all the way to the skull). She is fine, a little trooper. Well I got a $400 ER bill. I paid it and thought that was it. I just got a $485 bill from the ER doctor. The doctor is a separate bill. He cost more than the ER! It was the ER nurses that did all the work. In three hours the Dr. spent less than 15 min with my daughter. That's nearly $2000 dollars an hour. All he did was stitch her up and at that point she was numb enough I could have done it. Can this be contested or something?

[tarnalberry]

yep, the on-call docs (particularly something like surgery) are separate. ER's are extremely pricey. I doubt you can contest the need to pay the doctor, but perhaps insurance will be covering some of it or there can be some price negotiation? never hurts to ask.

[ravenwoodglass]

My 4 yr old hit her head and had to go to the ER for stitches (inch + long and all the way to the skull). She is fine, a little trooper. Well I got a $400 ER bill. I paid it and thought that was it. I just got a $485 bill from the ER doctor. The doctor is a separate bill. He cost more than the ER! It was the ER nurses that did all the work. In three hours the Dr. spent less than 15 min with my daughter. That's nearly $2000 dollars an hour. All he did was stitch her up and at that point she was numb enough I could have done it. Can this be contested or something?

If you are in bad financial circumstances talk to the hospital first and then the doctor. In the US no one can be turned away because of lack of ability to pay but they have to know you can't afford it to be able to get it lowered. It does seem like a lot, be thankful they didn't have an anesthesiologist on call to give her the numbing agent or he would be billing you too.

[gfp]

My 4 yr old hit her head and had to go to the ER for stitches (inch + long and all the way to the skull). She is fine, a little trooper. Well I got a $400 ER bill. I paid it and thought that was it. I just got a $485 bill from the ER doctor. The doctor is a separate bill. He cost more than the ER! It was the ER nurses that did all the work. In three hours the Dr. spent less than 15 min with my daughter. That's nearly $2000 dollars an hour. All he did was stitch her up and at that point she was numb enough I could have done it. Can this be contested or something?

I'm going to get slammed for this....

I'm not telling anyone to do this themselves but even though ER is free in the UK and France I just do my own stitches when I need them so long as they are a single layer....

In more complex situations you can need more than one layer of stiches so that some are internal and some external...

If this is the case then you can't do this at home... without severe risk of infection...

The last stitches a Dr. actually did on me are a real mess... I really could do better... so now I just do... finding the equipment is the hard part...

You need a combined liquid antispeptic that also removes dead flesh I use a Open Original Shared Link spray...

(You need to make sure your not trapping any dirt inside... !) and lots of boiled cooled water to get it really clean and a mercurochrome antiseptic after... if pain bothers you then you can get these with lidocaine hydrochloride included...

My Doctor and also a friend who is a vascualar surgeon both tell me I shouldn't do this and of course you shouldn't....

However both of them recognise I hate hospitals and it will either not get stitched (unless I'm really dying) or I suspect I have something embedded in the wound and tenetively say if I'm going to do my own then at least do it properly...

My current antiseptic was given to me from my GP when I said she can send me to a surgeon but I'm not going ....

(although that wasn't for stitches but a huge cyst {incidentally I beleive gluten related} I lanced myself but couldn't actually get to properly... in the end she just gave me antibiotics in case of infection and the anti-septic with lidocain and managed to get most of the fluid out herself) .. The funny thing was I hadn't gone to my GP for the cyst anyway... she just spotted it when I had to take my shirt off!!

So like I say... not to be tried at home... do as I say not as I do! But if you do decide to disregard medical advice (as I do) then do it right and make sure you have an up to date tetanus! And if it gets infected be ready for a real talking to from your Docter!

edits

be thankful they didn't have an anesthesiologist on call to give her the numbing agent or he would be billing you too.

Erm yeah.... I mean stiches are unpleasant but they don't really hurt as such... if your squeamish a local isn't really going to help since you still have to watch and if not its just something to put up with ... pumping in 20cc of local anaesthetic hurts as much as the actual stitches... inmost cases..

[confused]

They are expensive, we had to take my oldest to the Er last year cause he crashed on his bike and cut his leg really bad, he had to have external and internal stitches. After it was all said and done it was about 2000, the insurance did pick up some, but not all cause our insurance feels the Er charges to much here, so they wont pay for it all.

We had to make payment arrangements for a few months. But If you pay it in full they are supposed to give you 5 percent off, which we didnt know about til a few months ago when we were paying for all of the stomach test and Er visits to see what was wrong wtih him.

I know in colorado if you cant afford bills they are supposed to take 10 percent off, or if u dont have insurance, but dont know if that is everywhere.

paula

[Jo.R]

If you are in bad financial circumstances talk to the hospital first and then the doctor. In the US no one can be turned away because of lack of ability to pay but they have to know you can't afford it to be able to get it lowered. It does seem like a lot, be thankful they didn't have an anesthesiologist on call to give her the numbing agent or he would be billing you too.

We are a family on a budget, but we have a savings for things like this, so it isn't killing us financially. We have insurance, with meeting the deductible and our % we still have to pay most of it. Since we met her deductible this will be a good year to have her tested for Celiac.

gfp: if it were me or my husband we would not have gone to the ER. I probably wouldn't have gone if it was on another part of her body, I'd just use butterfly band-aids and take her to the doctor (which is covered 100%) on Monday. It being on her head, I felt she should be checked out right away.

[gfp]

We are a family on a budget, but we have a savings for things like this, so it isn't killing us financially. We have insurance, with meeting the deductible and our % we still have to pay most of it. Since we met her deductible this will be a good year to have her tested for Celiac.

gfp: if it were me or my husband we would not have gone to the ER. I probably wouldn't have gone if it was on another part of her body, I'd just use butterfly band-aids and take her to the doctor (which is covered 100%) on Monday. It being on her head, I felt she should be checked out right away.

Nope your probably right .. best not to mess with the head and have her checked for concussion or other damage...

Reminds me of my brother when we were kids... when he hit his head sledging into a wall ...

The scalp also had a lot pf potentail for bleeding A LOT....

On the whole ER is a rip off but then so is paying someone to remove the oil from your car and change a filter...

Sometimes you just have to be pragmatic and have some savings

At least right away probalby means nearly that... last ER I was in was in Italy and they forgot to give me anaesthetic before trying to dig out a bit of metal stuck through my fingernail....

Once again I could have done this myself... I did try and decided anaethetic would be better.... spent about 6 hrs in ER managed to get a shift change and the 2nd Dr. thought the 1st had anaesthetised my finger ... so just to cheer you up ...

Im there on an operating table with them sticking tweezers through my nail and digging about with a dictionary and phrase book trying to work out the conditional tens for anaesthetic...

Funny thing the nurse came for a follow-up tetanus and was concerned about it hurting...

I had to laugh... someone spent an hour digging about under my nail and she's worried a tetanus shot will hurt...

Wish I found her earlier... first person who spoke any English ...!

[TinkerbellSwt]

We just got slammed with a 1500.00 copay on synergis shots from my son from over a year ago. Apparently they are considered medical equipment? go figure, and we have to pay 10% of every shot.. each shot is about 1500.00, and they were pre cert, and no one told us we would have a copay.. I know we would have gotten the shots anyway.. but just another huge medical bill to add to Colins list.. now his birth and subsequent care is over 500,000.00. and we have copays and deductibles for all of it.. needless to say, I speak to more collection agencies and billing depts each month than I care to think about.. We just keep getting put on payment plans.. b/c we have insurance.. so no charity care.. if only we were made of money...

[dally099]

We just got slammed with a 1500.00 copay on synergis shots from my son from over a year ago. Apparently they are considered medical equipment? go figure, and we have to pay 10% of every shot.. each shot is about 1500.00, and they were pre cert, and no one told us we would have a copay.. I know we would have gotten the shots anyway.. but just another huge medical bill to add to Colins list.. now his birth and subsequent care is over 500,000.00. and we have copays and deductibles for all of it.. needless to say, I speak to more collection agencies and billing depts each month than I care to think about.. We just keep getting put on payment plans.. b/c we have insurance.. so no charity care.. if only we were made of money...

wow, i know im going to get slammed for this, but why would anyone want to live in a country where health care isnt paid for? and why would any one reelect a presidant who dosnet even pretend to care? dont get me wrong canada is by no stretch perfect, we have horrible race relations here as well, and people who collect welfare their whole lives at the cost of tax payers, but when i need stitches or had allergic reactions that brought me to the hospital over xmas i never even hesitated about going. i cant imagine and my heart goes out to those who struggle trying to pay off medical bills, and for those who have to learn how to do stitches on themselves to save the cost of a trip to the ER.

[corinne]

Funny story to maybe lighten things up. When I was 20 and naive, I went to a waterski training camp in Montana. I was a Canadian resident at the time. My parents tried to talk me into buying health travel insurance, but of course you're invincible at that age and I refused to spend the money. Three days into the camp, I wiped out and got hit over the head with the fin of the waterski. The coach was going to drive me into the ER for stitches, but the estimated bill would be $1200 and I had to admit that I had no insurance and didn't have that much money. So he talked to his neighbour who is vet and his neighbour stitched up my head in trade for a case of beer. The vet did a great job; nice tight stitches and no scar. I guess a human was a lot easier to stitch.

[Jo.R]

That's too funny! I'm just so upset that the doctor bill was so high compared to the hospital bill. The hospital provided the space, the needed supplies, the two great nurses who did most of the work, spent the most time, and was great with my little girl. The doctor checked her eyes and stitched her up, maybe 15 min.

By the way gfp, are you accident prone, or are you into extreme living?

[Byte Me]

We just keep getting put on payment plans.. b/c we have insurance.. so no charity care.. if only we were made of money...

I am not sure if this is the case in every state, but it may be...the minimum to pay without going to collections in the state I live is $5.00 per month...that is exactly what I have been paying the so-called doctor who diagnosed me with "just IBS" a year ago. It has not and will not go to collections as long as I keep up payment. $6,000+ bill @ $5/mo...it's almost fun paying it that way

[brizzo]

Welcome to America!!! This is a perfect example of the rich get richer and the poor get poorer! We actually have one of the worst health care systems in the civilized world (financially speaking). Even celiac disease in Europe is WELL known and restraunts are very well educated on food preperation technique. I am a paramedic on an ambulance and it currently costs $380 to ride in one, in my locale. And if your insurance deems your ambulance ride not a medical necessity, YOU get footed with the bill! And medical necessity to insurance companies means life or limb! I work in healthcare, and I am screaming ; American healthcare sucks! (done venting)

[gfp]

wow, i know im going to get slammed for this, but why would anyone want to live in a country where health care isnt paid for? and why would any one reelect a presidant who dosnet even pretend to care? dont get me wrong canada is by no stretch perfect, we have horrible race relations here as well, and people who collect welfare their whole lives at the cost of tax payers, but when i need stitches or had allergic reactions that brought me to the hospital over xmas i never even hesitated about going. i cant imagine and my heart goes out to those who struggle trying to pay off medical bills, and for those who have to learn how to do stitches on themselves to save the cost of a trip to the ER.

Erm... I was thinking along the same lines, just in a different way....

I was sorta thinking I'm slamming Italy's ER for a 6-7 hour wait on something non critical but at least it was free...

I do have to say though last time I was in AB healthcare it was with a friend and a genuine emergency and until I released the heavy bandaging put on by the medics and he bled all over the floor...

The ER dr. in Bannf managed to wash the wound out and do 3 layers of stitches which subsequently became infected and he had to go to the foothills hosp. everyday for IV antibiotics... though it was free.

I suddenly felt a bit guilty reading the posts of TinkerbellSwt and others...

and why would any one reelect a presidant who dosnet even pretend to care?

Same reason he doesn't care....

If you have a good job and great insurance its not so easy to pretend to yourself everyone has the same chance...

Many people go through life without expensive medical bills... then you read TinkerbellSwt and others... and think wow.. its just an "accident" at birth..

For many years even though the UK system is not so bad I had company paid medical insurance for 100% and never used the public healthcare. I think there is also a huge and not incorrect perception that the US public healthcare system is inefficient.

The healthcare costs per capita are similar to France and almost 2x the UK...

The UK system isn't great... you can easily die on a waiting list and antything considered non life threatening is increasingly difficult to get...and even then med's are restricted based on cost.

The UK for instance won't pay for many cancer treatments that just extend the life of a terminal patient or impriove quality of life for that time because the funds are limited...

France has unlimited medical cover .. it just works completely differently...

The public health system is mainly privately owned... and forms a basis of the private medical system.. That is you can't opt out 100% .. private insurance tops up what isn't covered because its not critical...

My gluten-free just got her new glasses for about $500 (Armani) and renewed her disposable contacts.. she can get FREE glasses and free hard contacts on the public system so they just take the price off for what the state considers and the rest is charged to the insurance..

Anything critical is covered 100% regardless of cost... If I do say so myself it works very very well.

I do know a lot of rich French people though who resent paying for others... in exactly the same way... They figure why should I pay tax because this guy was born with a congenital heart condition ... Also just because of the nature of the peope I know, many spend a large part of their lives abroad on private healthcare ... and resent paying tax for a healthcare system they are not using.

So partly l I think if the US public healthcare actualy worked much better more people would be happier about paying for it... but it will never be everyone.

[ravenwoodglass]

wow, i know im going to get slammed for this, but why would anyone want to live in a country where health care isnt paid for? and why would any one reelect a presidant who dosnet even pretend to care?

How about because we have no choice if we are not rich enough to move. And the people did not reelect this jerk, the politicians did. Computer ballots with no paper trail, hmmmmmmm

Medicine in the US is profit driven, there is no profit to diagnosing us because then we don't develop all the autoimmune disease and cancers that keep that profit margin up. I expect as more folks realize that they are effected by gluten prices will continue to go higher to make up for all the folks like me that no longer contribute thousands of dollars a year to their kitty. Prediagnosis just for copays alone for doctor visits, specialists, and scripts for toxic drugs we paid over 17 grand a year..just for me. Now we are 'lucky' if we hit the deductable.

[gfp]

Medicine in the US is profit driven, there is no profit to diagnosing us because then we don't develop all the autoimmune disease and cancers that keep that profit margin up. I expect as more folks realize that they are effected by gluten prices will continue to go higher to make up for all the folks like me that no longer contribute thousands of dollars a year to their kitty. Prediagnosis just for copays alone for doctor visits, specialists, and scripts for toxic drugs we paid over 17 grand a year..just for me. Now we are 'lucky' if we hit the deductable.

I think that summarises the differences...

If you have public healthcare then the state has to consider the costs of treating you for complications.

However its not perfect since the complications of many things are longer term than the presently elected govt. setting the budgets. In some ways a private insurance should be more interested but the flaw in that is they might just raise premiums until you can't afford or people change job and go onto another scheme....not to mention how do you pay the premiums once you retire?

[TinkerbellSwt]

When my son was transferred to a different hospital when he was born, the ambulance ride was $5000.00! thankfully our deductibles were already in place so that was fully covered. I had good insurance at the time Colin was born, however, his fathers insurance didnt kick in until July of the year he was born.. so we got stuck with my deductibles 750.00 each.. not so bad... and like someone said earlier.. as long as I pay a minimum amount every month, no collections. They try to tell me 60.00 a month and such on the bigger copays now, I no longer have that insurance, I am on permanent disability and get Medicare.. yeah, talk about bad coverage.. they tell me 60.00 a month and I laugh at them, literally. I tell them where would they like me to get that kind of money every month? I am on Social Security Disability.. that mean fixed income buddy.. I actually paid 10.00 a month!

[Kyalesyin]

All this just makes me glad to live in the UK. We're both students living on literally pennies, so I have no idea how we'd have funded the appendectomy I had last week.

Sadly though, when its not an emergency [and sometimes, even when it is,] you get what you pay for. Everything is underfunded, so the service really is second hand and second best. I got rushed into hospital by ambulance with my gut exploding, and then still had to wait four hours to see a doctor. When my grandmother's heart went, they thought she was an old drunk and left her on a trolley without even doing tests. Luckily, my mother was able to come up and yell at them or it could have been a lot worse.

To be honest, I think I'd prefer to have to pay for my healthcare- at least there is a chance of getting a decent quality of service.

[Jo.R]

I do have to say, I am not ready to hand my health care over to the government, they run everything else so well. I don't know what it is like in Canada and the UK, but in America there are far too many people who's purpose in life is to drain the system. If we had national health care our ERs would be clogged with people who have colds and hang overs and want their nails cut. We already see that with people who have health care that only require a co-pay. I would rather pay for the stupid doctor who didn't do much, than to have had to wait hours on hours for my kid to be treated because of leaches on the system. I also like having a say in how, when, and by who I get treated. My big beef isn't with having to pay my deductible, it's that the doctor cost more than the ER.

[Tim-n-VA]

wow, i know im going to get slammed for this, but why would anyone want to live in a country where health care isnt paid for?

Despite the problems, since 1980 there have been 60 people awarded at least a share of the Nobel prize in medicine and 36 were from the US. Second place was the UK with 9.

That profit motive leads to innovation that the rest of the world uses.

[brizzo]

Interesting fact... #1 contributer to the Bush campaign; Pfizer

[tarnalberry]

One thing I don't like about public health care (of all the varieties I know about) is that you can't pick your own doctor at any time and self refer.

I'm a scientist, and I have enough of a medical background that I'm relatively well educated when it comes to my health. When I was having knee problems, I knew my GP - great though she was - wasn't the person to see. So I got a recommendation from her office staff (not knowing where else to look at the time) and made an appointment on my own. He sucked from a technical perspective (headed over to the medical library, researched what he said, and found he was about 10 years behind on his treatment), so I looked for a second opinion by finding a reference off of my insurance and making an appointment. The second guy was horrid on bedside manner to the point where I couldn't work well with him, so I looked for a third doctor who could help and got a recommendation (the same one) from two coworkers, and made an appointment on my own. He was a winner - big time. It took about three weeks to do all that, partially because I was busy at work and couldn't spare more time.

I did much the same for my back and feet.

I would have had to go through a lot more testing, a lot more time, and a lot more pain before I could have gotten to physical therapy. I wouldn't have gotten the extensive physical therapy I did - especially for a back problem that the doctor had a difficult time identifying without input from the PT, despite the fact that he was actually a pretty good doctor.

I pay for it - my deductible isn't too bad, but I have regular co-pays and I pay into the plan every month. But medical care isn't cheap, and the value to me to have that flexibility and that service is valuable, and hence worth paying for.