Soaps, Shampoo, And Other Personal Care Products

[Karen B.]

This may sound ignorant, but what is the purpose of watching for gluten in our personal care products like shampoo, conditioner, soap, etc....? It is because we may ingest the gluten proteins? Can someone please explain this to me.

Just to come back to the original question...

I look for gluten-free shower and shampoo products because I realized that I breathe with my mouth open when shampooing so I don't get water in my nose. I use a mint scented shampoo now and I know when I've gotten some because I can taste it. If I were using, for example, a wheat germ oil shampoo, I would have ingested gluten. In my opinion, there are many good products out there I can use without worrying about getting an accidental gluten hit from using them. Accidental gluten hits will happen, that

[darlindeb25]

Karen--this is the best response ever:

I see no reason to exclude people because of the limitations of our current knowledge.

Oh so true!

celiac3270--WELCOME BACK BUDDY. Hope to see more of you. You are always a voice of gluten free knowledge. I miss you and Kaiti.

[ravenwoodglass]

It really doesn't matter which diseases Celiac has been linked to, etc., or anything else. The bottom line is that gluten is not absorbed through the skin, period. I know that there are changes in the *mucous membrane of THE INTESTINES* of people with Celiac, but I have never seen published data that says that gluten is absorbed through mucous membranes such as the vagina. Gluten must be absorbed via the digestive tract to cause a reaction in Celiacs. Of course I would accept *scientific* (i.e. Pub Med) abstracts saying otherwise, but I have personally never seen them. We actually DO know quite a bit about Celiac. It is considered to be one of the most well understood autoimmune diseases.

I should not be restricted on my opinion, which is based on *proven* information. If misinformation is given on this board, it does nothing to help those with Celiac Disease.

Just my opinion.

Here is one study on the use of detecting celiac through rectal mucosa challenge off of Pub Med

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And another

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And one last one on nasal mucosa testing

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[jerseyangel]

Ravenwood,

I was thinking about something as I read about the nasal mucosa...

I was misdiagnosed with sinus infections over and over (which I'm sure by now, everyone is sick of hearing). What was odd about it, looking back, was that I never had the typical nasal discharge, sneezing, or facial pain in the sinus areas. My ENT, at the time, used to look puzzled, and said that the inside of my nose was an "angry" red. I could very easily breathe through my nose.

I also had a CAT scan of my sinuses that showed no evidence of infection. They thought that it might have been triggered by allergies at that point.

Antibiotics, and later antihistimines and steroid nasal sprays didn't really help. The only thing that did help--for a while--was Decadron (an injected, long lasting steroid).

Maybe I'm reaching, who knows....I"m not the only one on here who has mentioned sinus problems. Anyway, thanks for the links

[Guest Doll]

Here is one study on the use of detecting celiac through rectal mucosa challenge off of Pub Med

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And another

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And one last one on nasal mucosa testing

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OK, thank you for the studies. However, I think people are *misunderstanding* what they mean. These studies I think are simply saying that there is enough of an increase in certain immune system cells in the mucous membrane to say that there is a mild infmmatory reaction that can be used for TESTING and diagnosing purposes. I *don't* think they are saying that mucousal gluten necessarily causes intestinal damage or an increase in EMA, TtG, etc (Celiac damage antibodies).

Interesting to note that the last study mentions an increase in CD4+ cells...this can actually *prevent* an autoimmune attack from occuring. Some researchers have been trying to develop a nasal vaccine to help prevent the autoimmune response in Celiacs, which I think this study was trying to do.

I also don't see anything here about gluten being absorbed through the skin, which was my original point. Is there anyone here who agrees that this is impossible? If no, explain. I can accept that some Celiacs also have a topical allergy to gluten in addition to Celiac, and that some Celiacs get shampoo in their mouth in the shower (yuck! ) and wish to avoid shampoo with gluten. But I have a hard time believing that a Celiac is going to get glutened by a topical shampoo or lotion.

If people wash their hands (which you should do anyway to prevent illness, who wants feces or toxic sunscreen traces on their sandwich?) before they eat, or use cutlery, the vast majority of Celiacs are fine with topical gluten.

[darlindeb25]

However, I think people are *misunderstanding* what they mean. These studies I think are simply saying that there is enough of an increase in certain immune system cells in the mucous membrane to say that there is a mild infmmatory reaction that can be used for TESTING and diagnosing purposes. I *don't* think they are saying that mucousal gluten necessarily causes intestinal damage or an increase in EMA, TtG, etc (Celiac damage antibodies).

Yes Doll, YOU "think" people are *misunderstanding* and YOU "don't" think something is being said---but that is your opinion. Ravenwoodglass on the other hand, reads these articles in a different way and that is fine too. I agree with Raven. I do not think enough is known about the many ways gluten can attack we gluten intolerant people.

I also think the day will come when Celiac Disease becomes a disease of degrees. It will finally be realized that anyone with a gluten intolerance is celiac, just at different degrees, flatten villi being the last degree of the disease. Even now, it doesn't matter if you have flatten villi or not, if you are celiac or gluten intolerant, the prescription is the same--going gluten free.

I work in a doctor's office and I wash my hands quite often, but still, I know accidents happen. I will always buy gluten free products and I do request that we use gluten free products at work too. I ask that no one eat at my desk and I do not think that is too much to ask. I clean my desk often, because I do know there is one person in the office who can't seem to follow the rules. If you do not want to be as safe as you possibly can, that is fine and if we want to be safe, that is fine too.

[lfij]

Yes Doll, YOU "think" people are *misunderstanding* and YOU "don't" think something is being said---but that is your opinion. Ravenwoodglass on the other hand, reads these articles in a different way and that is fine too. I agree with Raven. I do not think enough is known about the many ways gluten can attack we gluten intolerant people.

I also think the day will come when Celiac Disease becomes a disease of degrees. It will finally be realized that anyone with a gluten intolerance is celiac, just at different degrees, flatten villi being the last degree of the disease. Even now, it doesn't matter if you have flatten villi or not, if you are celiac or gluten intolerant, the prescription is the same--going gluten free.

I work in a doctor's office and I wash my hands quite often, but still, I know accidents happen. I will always buy gluten free products and I do request that we use gluten free products at work too. I ask that no one eat at my desk and I do not think that is too much to ask. I clean my desk often, because I do know there is one person in the office who can't seem to follow the rules. If you do not want to be as safe as you possibly can, that is fine and if we want to be safe, that is fine too.

i'm not a fan of when you implied that we are not being as safe as possible by not using all gluten-free products. I don't eat my mascara or rub in down my face and get it in my mouth, so really, i'm being as safe as i possibly can, its just personal choices. I choose to not be compulsive about non edible non lotion type things. However, if someone else wants to take extra precautions, it's their time and effort and body, more power to them. But people who seem extra cautious usually seem extra defensive, you're allowed to be cautious, i'm allowed to use gluten containing mascara because mine doesn't find it's way into my mouth (even though i haven't found one that does yet), potato, potatoh.

nice use of quotes btw

[radgirl]

Yikes, I certainly didn't expect my topic to get so out of hand. Whatever the case, thank you for the posts.

[Karen B.]

i'm not a fan of when you implied that we are not being as safe as possible by not using all gluten-free products. I don't eat my mascara or rub in down my face and get it in my mouth, so really, i'm being as safe as i possibly can, its just personal choices. I choose to not be compulsive about non edible non lotion type things. However, if someone else wants to take extra precautions, it's their time and effort and body, more power to them. But people who seem extra cautious usually seem extra defensive, you're allowed to be cautious, i'm allowed to use gluten containing mascara because mine doesn't find it's way into my mouth (even though i haven't found one that does yet), potato, potatoh.

nice use of quotes btw

Personal choice is not a "compulsion" and it is offensive to imply that it is. Defending your right not to use products that cause you problems when you are called "paranoid" is not being defensive. If a Celiac experiences problems with a product it is a Celiac's problem even if the problem is not specifically Celiac. The nice thing about this place is people help you find answers to problems that may not exactly fit the box your doctor tries to put them into.

If you can't see that the tone you are using is denigerating and disparaging to others posting here, even after celiac3270's excellent post, IMO there's not much point in trying to converse.

[cookie22]

Personal choice is not a "compulsion" and it is offensive to imply that it is. Defending your right not to use products that cause you problems when you are called "paranoid" is not being defensive. If a Celiac experiences problems with a product it is a Celiac's problem even if the problem is not specifically Celiac. The nice thing about this place is people help you find answers to problems that may not exactly fit the box your doctor tries to put them into.

If you can't see that the tone you are using is denigerating and disparaging to others posting here, even after celiac3270's excellent post, IMO there's not much point in trying to converse.

i think we should be careful about labeling everything a celiac reaction because it confuses other celiacs. just because we have celiac doesn't mean everything that happens is due to celiac or is even related to it.

[Mtndog]

Hi celiac3270! Miss you and Kaiti a lot!

I have one suggestion. A former member here used to say, if you don't believe that gluten in shampoo and conditioner gets in your mouth, try this test:

Wash your hair with baking soda and since it's VERY salty, you will be able to judge just how much you actually ingest.

[Guest Doll]

Hi celiac3270! Miss you and Kaiti a lot!

I have one suggestion. A former member here used to say, if you don't believe that gluten in shampoo and conditioner gets in your mouth, try this test:

Wash your hair with baking soda and since it's VERY salty, you will be able to judge just how much you actually ingest.

Right. I am so sensitive to CC that my food can't touch anything with gluten, etc. I am a typical "sensitive Celiac". When I'm glutened, my blood pressure and blood sugar drops, I have severe D, cramping, dizziness, the list goes on and on. And yet I have never reacted to any topical products with gluten and have yet to pass out in the shower (although I do keep a can of Coke on the toilet! ).

I doubt this is a problem for most Celiacs. Of course it is personal choice, but I bet that if those who use only gluten-free products switched to a gluten containing one, the vast majority of them would not notice.

I am going to try your test just for fun though!

P.S. How could you not know if you got shampoo in your mouth? I recall eating some as a kid. It tastes awful!

[Guest Doll]

i think we should be careful about labeling everything a celiac reaction because it confuses other celiacs. just because we have celiac doesn't mean everything that happens is due to celiac or is even related to it.

Thank you and well said.

[barbara123]

I totally agree with this. In addition gluten can be absorbed by and effect mucus membranes this includes in the mouth, eyes, nose and for us ladies the 'personal areas'. Some countries will use a gluten suppository and then biopsy the rectal tissue 3 hours later to diagnose us and there is currently a form of testing that would be done by using the mucous membranes in the mouth that is in the works. In light of this and the fact that Celiac is an autoimmune reaction and thus can be systemic not only gut it is a very good thing to be 'paranoid'. I consider myself lucky to have DH and severe neuro symptoms when glutened, this became most obvious once I had cleared ALL gluten out of my personal products as well as foods. For me the reaction is obvious and far from being paranoid.

I totally agree! I was glutened at the salon 2 days ago Beautician said she had celiac and would promise me i would not have to worry. Hair felt great when I left. I was so happy. Until i woke up the next morning with hives, vomiting, headache, and back, leg, and sciatic pain. Some of us are real sensitive to gluten products. It is not worth the risk to me. But everyone of us is different, guess that is why it is so hard to diagnose.

[melrobsings]

wow....this blew up didn't it? Good Lord peeps! we are here to talk about our fav subject, CELIAC....lets get back to it shall we?!

I realized after I posted my last post about using noxzema and DH.....here is the deal.

I have been told I have DH and I don't have DH. i ONLY have a rash on my arms, had it 90% of my life and it can be itchy and doesn't go away for nothin'! It doesn't spread either....

Here is another thing. I just had this lightbulb moment....a few times a year i break into hives and they are red and look JUST like the DH photos I have seen....so what I have been having aren't hives maybe but DH?! But I get them in odd places, mostly my armpits (classy, i know!), and my tummy and sometimes my belly button (again, classy is the theme with this stuff!)....

humm.....do other people get DH in the armpits?! it's really a treat when they are in your pits!

[darlindeb25]

Of course it is personal choice, but I bet that if those who use only gluten-free products switched to a gluten containing one, the vast majority of them would not notice.

Well Doll, you wouldn't want to bet money on me not noticing, you would lose every penny!!!

All I am saying is, it is better to not take the chance--it's not more expensive, my shampoo doesnt cost anymore than any of the other good shampoos, and my bath soap does not cost anymore than the good soaps either. I rarely, almost never use generic things, and yes, I have compared, they don't cut it where shampoos and soaps are concerned, not on sensitive skin or long, thick hair.

My mama always said, "It's better to be safe than sorry!"

[ravenwoodglass]

wow....this blew up didn't it? Good Lord peeps! we are here to talk about our fav subject, CELIAC....lets get back to it shall we?!

I realized after I posted my last post about using noxzema and DH.....here is the deal.

I have been told I have DH and I don't have DH. i ONLY have a rash on my arms, had it 90% of my life and it can be itchy and doesn't go away for nothin'! It doesn't spread either....

Here is another thing. I just had this lightbulb moment....a few times a year i break into hives and they are red and look JUST like the DH photos I have seen....so what I have been having aren't hives maybe but DH?! But I get them in odd places, mostly my armpits (classy, i know!), and my tummy and sometimes my belly button (again, classy is the theme with this stuff!)....

humm.....do other people get DH in the armpits?! it's really a treat when they are in your pits!

Wow I thought I was the only odd ball who would get them in their belly button, glad to know I am not alone. And yes I would get them in my underarm area and other private and very uncomfortable places also. As a child I would get the rash on all my extremities and it would be there until I got a good dose of steroids then go away for a month or so only to return. They told my Mom it was poison ivy, since that is what they said hers was also of course it was never doubted. As an adult however the lesions would appear mostly on my neck, back and face with occasional outbreaks in the more personal areas.

[Karen B.]

i think we should be careful about labeling everything a celiac reaction because it confuses other celiacs. just because we have celiac doesn't mean everything that happens is due to celiac or is even related to it.

Totally agree with that statement. One of the handy things about this place is the info sharing that goes on about things that affect Celiacs other than Celiac... permanent dairy intolerance, various allergies, soy intolerance and so forth. These are not Celiac issues but we discuss them all the time.

The only thing I truly object to is disparaging someone personally because of a difference of opinion. If we don't agree, that's fine. That doesn't make either of us compulsive or paranoid. Many Celiacs have gone through those labels in pursuit of a diagnoses that takes an average of 11 years. I try to be conscious of that when someone tells me something causes a problem for them. If they provide a link or quote a source, I'll check it out but if it's personal experience, I take it as such. Truly YMMV. Even if the info is flat wrong, you can state that and provide a correction without personal attacks. I value the supportive atmosphere and would hate to lose it to personal snipes and attacks.

[Craftycat]

I'm new to all this and still awaiting Endosocopy results. I do have several of the symptoms and was found to be highly allergic to wheat bran about 6 years ago by blood test.

In reading these responses to personal care products, I was thinking about all the drug patches they have these days for different medications. They get into your system through your skin, which makes me wonder what effect all our personal care products we put on our skin has? I know they don't get into your gut, but it still seems like it could cause some kind of reaction, since it has to do with autoimmune disease. Maybe if you don't have the DH, you could develop that part as a reaction to the personal care products? Just a thought.

[cookie22]

I'm new to all this and still awaiting Endosocopy results. I do have several of the symptoms and was found to be highly allergic to wheat bran about 6 years ago by blood test.

In reading these responses to personal care products, I was thinking about all the drug patches they have these days for different medications. They get into your system through your skin, which makes me wonder what effect all our personal care products we put on our skin has? I know they don't get into your gut, but it still seems like it could cause some kind of reaction, since it has to do with autoimmune disease. Maybe if you don't have the DH, you could develop that part as a reaction to the personal care products? Just a thought.

you're right about things being absorped through skin but that goes right into your blood stream. but,actually, even if you do have DH gluten has to get into your gut, if you have a wheat allergy or one to another allergy to something gluteny, you will react through skin. people here like to blame everything on good ol celiac, even though in most cases its not the true. but, if someone wants to be extra careful and use gluten-free shampoo or if someone has a wheat allergy on top of celiac, who am i to tell them any different?

[Di-gfree]

I am concerned about shampoos, conditioners, and even the face wash I use because whenever I shower, sure enough, I get some in my mouth when I rinse. I

[cookie22]

I am concerned about shampoos, conditioners, and even the face wash I use because whenever I shower, sure enough, I get some in my mouth when I rinse. I

[Buttercup]

I have read differing opinions on this subject both here and in various books and online research I have done. Having to ingest gluten for a GI response makes sense to me. But non GI symptoms from possible absorption into the bloodstream also makes sense. It might not cause the villi damage, but is it not possible that is could cause other unpleasent "glutening" symptoms?

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[Guest Doll]

I'm new to all this and still awaiting Endosocopy results. I do have several of the symptoms and was found to be highly allergic to wheat bran about 6 years ago by blood test.

In reading these responses to personal care products, I was thinking about all the drug patches they have these days for different medications. They get into your system through your skin, which makes me wonder what effect all our personal care products we put on our skin has? I know they don't get into your gut, but it still seems like it could cause some kind of reaction, since it has to do with autoimmune disease. Maybe if you don't have the DH, you could develop that part as a reaction to the personal care products? Just a thought.

Companies do this all of the time using patches. But they break down proteins like gluten and other molecules into individual amino acids, which are harmless. They are not absorbed through the skin whole at all. Otherwise, everyone would have an allergic reaction to their products, since the body can't tolerate these whole (ask any Celiac! ). In Celiac, the problem is not so much gluten, but the fact that gluten is absorbed whole into the body via the "leaky" gut seen in Celiac Disease. This triggers an immune reaction, and also intestinal damage.

The current theory is that all autoimmune diseases, including Celiac, MS, Juvenile (Type 1) Diabetes, etc. share the same point of entry for the triggers, which is the intestine. This does look like it's the case.

P.S. What this guy is saying contradicts all known scientific data. It is known that if gluten was absorbed whole through skin, even a non-Celiac would react, and yet this must not happen since shampoos with gluten, etc. are on the market. I am always suspicious of anyone trying to sell "gluten sensitivity" testing kits and promoting their own books. Buyer beware!

One thing he does point out is that "Not all my Patients are Gluten Sensitive", and addresses those who think they have GS just because they're obese, have allergies, etc.

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[Jestgar]

Companies do this all of the time using patches. But they break down proteins like gluten and other molecules into individual amino acids, which are harmless. They are not absorbed through the skin whole at all. Otherwise, everyone would have an allergic reaction to their products, since the body can't tolerate these whole (ask any Celiac! ). I

This is ridiculous. Look up things before posting completely inaccurate statements. Proteins that have been broken down into individual amino acids are useless as a treatment. Very few (if any) medications that are delivered through the skin contain any protein; they are chemicals. The patches have components (additional chemicals) that allow or facilitate absorption through the skin.

I am not, nor have I ever been a housewife. I am, however, a scientist and have spent the last 20 years or so doing science. My training does not consist of memorizing a book of data that someone else has deemed to be true. Instead I spend my days questioning "facts" and determining for myself if they are likely to be true, or merely an assumption based on a lack of sufficient information.

If others on this thread were to spend less time assuming they are the font of all knowledge and all should bow to their superior intellect, and more time actually paying attention to what's been said, these others might realize that some of these "housewives" are pretty frickin' smart.

Education does not equal intelligence.