Dr. Kenneth Fine (enterolab)

[Joe G]

Almost a year ago, Dr. Fine was a major topic of this board, and a "group letter" was sent to him requesting information about his research. Has anyone (other than me) heard from him since that time?

Well, I have heard from him. He sent me an email announcing (a) a private catered open house and health lecture update at the newly expanded and renovated Enterolab facility, and ( a celiac disease-release party and concert featuring himself and his band. More specifically, the event tales place Dec 4-5 in Dallas, and consists of (a) gluten-free hors d'oeuvres/open house and ( an "update of research, publication submission, and a lecture titled 'The Higher truth of Health.' The next day (Dec 5) he offers, at the Lakewood Theater, (a) cocktails and cash bar, ( a gluten-free healthy organic dinner ($25), © a concert featuring Dr. Fine and his band (wth dancing), and © and after party cash bar.

This invitation seems to say that Dr. Fine is announcing publication of his research, but it is alittle vague on this subect. Has anyone else received this invitation? Does anyone plan to attend? I live too far way or I would be there. Please let us know. Thanks.

Joe

[Lisa]

This invitation seems to say that Dr. Fine is announcing publication of his research, but it is alittle vague on this subect.

Yes, vague. It seems more like a promo for his band, rather than for his research.

[JennyC]

Wow. He sounds very "well off" to be able to afford such events. I bet he got that way by selling tests for unvalidated assays. That's just sad.

[ravenwoodglass]

Anyone who has used Enterolab likely got this invite. I would go if I could as it sounds like fun and I would be interested in hearing him speak on his research. The only difference between this invite and the ones I get from folks like the GIG is that his band is playing during the event. I am thankful for Dr. Fine and his tests. I just wish I knew he existed during the many, many years I was misdiagnosed. It would have saved myself and my family a lot of pain and wasted years.

[homemaker]

Anyone who has used Enterolab likely got this invite. I would go if I could as it sounds like fun and I would be interested in hearing him speak on his research. The only difference between this invite and the ones I get from folks like the GIG is that his band is playing during the event. I am thankful for Dr. Fine and his tests. I just wish I knew he existed during the many, many years I was misdiagnosed. It would have saved myself and my family a lot of pain and wasted years.

I agree...I never knew that enterolab existed until I was on this forum. My belief is that there is still SO many things not understood as of yet regarding gluten sensitivities and celiac, and I believe that the medical community has a LONG way to go when it comes to diagnosing these disorders. When I look at my own family history, filled with Celiac and their related diseases, I could just cry.

So I CHOOSE to use enterolab as just ONE tool in my own personal health and wellbeing, just as I use traditional medicine as a TOOL.

I own my own body, and I make choices regarding it, so I am VERY glad that enterolab offers the services that it does.

There are many physicians that do use enterolab and endorse them...One example is below....

[homemaker]

Dr. Vikki Peterson is a chiropractor.

I understand that she is a chiropractor...she is part of a medical team....under the supervision of MD's

Open Original Shared Link

[homemaker]

There are many schools of thinking regarding Celiac Disease and gluten sensitivity...

AND there are many patients that have been helped by more open minded physicians.

I believe that someday the medical profession will look back at how we diagnosed Celiac

and related disorders and will be in awe at how archaic we were....

I am not an MD, I am a patient...no more....I applaud Dr. Fine for thinking outside the box..

[chiroptera]

If we all knew how the medical insurance industry works from a doctors viewpoint (esp HMO's) I think people would be less likely to criticize Dr. Fine. Does everyone really think their traditional doctor has their best interest in mind? Seriously..????? Most, but not all, do not. Think about all the terrible times people on these forums have had with doctors... the thing that bothers me the absolute most is doctors saying it's all in people's head. Esp the children!

Most people do not want to walk about very sick and are making it up.

Our family chose to use Enterolab and in our experience he is correct.

[Lisa]

. Does everyone really think their traditional doctor has their best interest in mind? Seriously..????? .

Yes, I do. If I did not, I would find another one who does.

If Enterolabs is your chosen avenue, I think that's great. For those of you with time, educate yourself and make the best informed choice for you and your family, whatever direction that may be.

My opinion is not set in concrete. I still am anxiously awaiting independent peer review of Dr. Fine's work, which has been promised for many years now. There are those who are strong supporters of Enterolabs and an equal amount of those who are not. I am not a supporter, but I try to respect those who are.

[sixtytwo]

HOMEMAKER----I just looked at all of those bits on U-Tube. Thanks. I have never heard a more thorough explaination of gluten sensitivity before. RESULTS...........doesn't make a lot of difference if you are celiac or gluten sensitive, you must stay off the gluten totally. I am one that thought that if you are gluten sensitive, then you could have a little bit here and there. I have so many of the ailments that he was talking about like thyroid, headaches and he didn't mention it as fibromyalgia, but he did say muscle/joint aches and pains. All considerably better when I am gluten free. My stomach hurts today so I am wondering what I ate yesterday that caused it. Thought I was being really good. Again, thanks for the tip, everyone should watch those videos.

Barbara

[TrillumHunter]

Dr. Vikki Peterson is a chiropractor.

What's your point with this?

[homemaker]

I don't go to a gastoenterolosist for a backache and I don't go to a chiropractor for a belly ache.

Chiropractors have NO business diagnosing celiac disease. They can't do a small bowel biopsy to make a proper diagnosis. They might have you do a spit test or something and tell you never to eat gluten again. But that isn't a diagnosis of anything at all. It's just a twist of Kenneth Fine's angle. And Yes, I am entitled to my opinion.

If you all want to narrow your worlds based on what someone like Vikki Peterson tells you, that is just fine with me. You are adults. Please make sure your children have a proper diagnosis as they have no choice in the matter. I consider it abuse to deprive a child of gluten if they don't absoutely need to be gluten-free. By that, I mean biopsy diagnosed celiac. True villi damage!

You are entitled to your opinion....

[wildwood]

I don't go to a gastoenterolosist for a backache and I don't go to a chiropractor for a belly ache.

Chiropractors have NO business diagnosing celiac disease. They can't do a small bowel biopsy to make a proper diagnosis. They might have you do a spit test or something and tell you never to eat gluten again. But that isn't a diagnosis of anything at all. It's just a twist of Kenneth Fine's angle. And Yes, I am entitled to my opinion.

If you all want to narrow your worlds based on what someone like Vikki Peterson tells you, that is just fine with me. You are adults. Please make sure your children have a proper diagnosis as they have no choice in the matter. I consider it abuse to deprive a child of gluten if they don't absoutely need to be gluten-free. By that, I mean biopsy diagnosed celiac. True villi damage!

How do you explain those diagnosed celiacs like my daughter that have no villi damage? (she had two biopsies) If we went by villi damage and assumed because the negative biopsies meant gluten was not a problem she would still be suffering from chest pain, abdominal pain, constipation, rashes, and tingling in her limbs and the list goes on. She is 100% better gluten free. If she gets glutened she has severe stomach pain and is out of commission for a day or two. Her stomach became more sensitive to gluten once she was off of it. I do not know enough about Dr. Fine or Vikki Peterson to comment of them, but I just felt the need to point out that as much as some feel endoscopy and villi damage is the "gold standard", there are many that do not exhibit villi damage at least not right away.

[wildwood]

Your daughter is legally an adult. She had a very positive ttg. Everything was done by the book. I also feel she does have a proper diagnosis. I do understand the damage is spotty. I just don't believe in making a minor child gluten-free unless there is overwhelming evidence of celiac disease.

I respectfully disagree.

[homemaker]

I do not think it is abusive to put a child on a gluten free diet without a diagnosis. A parent knows his or her child, and they are entitled to make decisions for that child....If the child improves, then what more proof would a parent need...

No parent wants to see their child in discomfort...

I have a degree in Child Development and Family Relations and I see no abuse in a gluten-free diet...

[JennyC]

Please make sure your children have a proper diagnosis as they have no choice in the matter. I consider it abuse to deprive a child of gluten if they don't absoutely need to be gluten-free. By that, I mean biopsy diagnosed celiac. True villi damage!

I feel absolutely no obligation to attempt to validate my son's diagnosis to you, or really even to educate you regarding celiac disease, but you may want to look up latent celiac disease. Ignorance is not always bliss.

[TrillumHunter]

I consider it abuse to deprive a child of gluten if they don't absoutely need to be gluten-free. By that, I mean biopsy diagnosed celiac. True villi damage!

Thankfully, that is just an opinion. Otherwise, my daughter with a ttg less than five points from the cutoff would have continued to eat poison for "just another year." Instead we chose to make a simple dietary change that transformed her world.

The process of biopsy is flawed. Do you realize how sick some people are before they are able to find the damage?

It sounds as though you find the diet especially difficult. Perhaps if you being on this board will help you to find ways to better cope.

We do have many non-traditionally and self-diagnosed folks on this board. Please respect them.

[sixtytwo]

SPRUSTER....you sound very rigid. I went to the site that Homemaker suggested and listened to all six of the parts of what he had on there and he is very knowlegable and right on the mark. In fact it made me realize that although I do not have full blown celiac, that I should still be eating gluten-free all the time and not cheating at all, due to all the other things that happen to a person when they eat gluten if they are sensitive. Sensitive covers a lot of territory and NOT celiac, which is just the tip of the iceberg. I had a lot of the complications that the doctor mentioned on there and the shoe fits. Thanks again to Homemaker for sharing.

Barbara

[TrillumHunter]

Funny, nobody has missed a party yet in my house.

Are you missing birthday parties and social occasions?

I will continue to make decisions for my kids without apology regardless of the difficulty involved.

Celiac is more than a GI disease.

[psawyer]

Spruster, I think you have made your point. You have more posts in this thread than any other contributor, yet your recent ones are just repeating the same point. If you have anything new to add, please do, otherwise let's move on.

[still tiredofdoctors]

Goodness . . .

Yes, there IS a difference between gluten sensitivity and Celiac disease.

I was gluten sensitive for many years -- diagnosed as "irritable bowel syndrome" and at one point, "ulcerative colitis". It wasn't until I encountered a tick that decided I looked somewhat like a delicacy and developed Lyme and three other tick-borne diseases that I subsequently began developing autoimmune diseases.

I have a rather long list of them, but in the process of all of this, I sero-converted from "gluten sensitivity" to true Celiac Disease. My intestinal villi? Very healthy.

I have Neurogenic Celiac. There is one protein on the Purkinje cell of the cerebellum that so strongly mimics gliadin that when your antigliadin antibodies are high - and you have sero-converted - it destroys those proteins. In the process, it also destroys your cerebellum's ability to maintain smooth transmission.

It is also known as "Sprue-Related Ataxia" and "Neurological Celiac Disease" among others.

Bottom line? I walk like a stumbling drunk. (Your cerebellum is what is affected most when you consume too much alcohol) I use a wheelchair for long outings, and I have a specially designed, weighted walker that I have just been able to get in order to try to walk without falling as much.

The damage is permanent. No healing, no second chance.

My son has developed two unusual autonomic manifestations recently. One is affecting his gut's inability to initiate peristalsis. Both are due to parasympathetic nervous system dysfunction -- routed through the cerebellum. He is 27 years old. He lives in Houston, TX. Because he disclosed my neurogenic celiac, he is having a full panel done. The MD understands that Celiac can manifest itself solely with neurological symptoms.

My granddaughter is 14 months old and is very sensitive to many things. At this point, my daughter is keeping her on a gluten-restricted, but not gluten-free diet. She is actually doing more "challenges" to determine if gluten is one of the causes of the difficulty. If she finds that is the case, my daughter's family will live a gluten-free lifestyle and she will ensure that Sarah not consume gluten.

If I knew then what I know now, the very minute that the neurologist said that I may have "Sprue-Related Ataxia", I would have gone on a strict gluten-free diet. Unfortunately, I waited almost eight months. The damage that was done to my cerebellum in that time, as I stated, is irreversible. You can see the changes chronologically when you look at my MRI studies. Then again, hindsight is 20/20.

Enterolab or no, if your body has a negative reaction to gluten -- even with challenges -- it is trying to tell you something extremely important. I wish I had listened.

[homemaker]

We all have differences regarding how celiac and related disorders be diagnosed, but you know folks? I guess we can all agree on this...

If gluten causes ya trouble .... you shouldn't be eat'in it!

Peace and Truce ....

(((((((((Hugs to all my gluten-free"ers))))))))))

[ravenwoodglass]

What are you going to provide them with? A solid diagnosis from a gastroenterologist or a spit test or even a fecal test. Do it right and you won't have anything to apologize for later on.

And if the child happens to be a false negative on testing that you seem to think is the be all and end all of diagnosis you can watch your child fall farther and farther behind on the growth charts until your 15 year old struggles with the humiliation of being thought constantly to be 10 and any chance of a normal social life and dating is out of the question, or you can watch your child struggle and fall constantly and just assume they are for some reason unusually clumsy, you can listen helplessly while you child crys because his leg bones hurt so bad he can't sleep but nothing can be done because it is 'growing pains', or you can visit you child in the mental hospital after they try to commit suicide becase the gluten is attacking their brain and the child is clinically depressed or you can bring that yummy pizza into your childs special ed class because for some reason he can't retain the info that others his age are able to absorb easily because of 'brain fog' or you can do as one doctor suggested to my celiac daughter and let them keep eating gluten until their villi are totally destroyed instead of just blunted and the doctor will then diagnose and during that time you can wake up repeatedly and pick that child up off the bathroom floor where they are curled up in pain after having D and vomiting for hours.... I could go on as these what if's are all part of my families history for both my children and myself but.....

If there is one disease where 'rigid thinking' does not belong it is celiac or gluten intolerance.

[chiroptera]

Child abuse because you don't let you child eat gluten???? WTH???????

I consider it abuse to let them eat something that makes them so sick they cry and vomit and miss school and hold their tummy and beg to feel better...............

Well, I suppose I should just stuff 'em all with MSG, artificial colours and dyes, etc. too. That would certainly be the best.

WOW!!!!!!!

[JennyC]

I suppose we can all agree to disagree. I'm hardly ignorant. Don't go there!

Someday, your kids will want proof. They will miss a lot! Birthday parties,school parties, pizza after the football games and so many more social activities as well. What are you going to provide them with? A solid diagnosis from a gastroenterologist or a spit test or even a fecal test. Do it right and you won't have anything to apologize for later on.

The combination of biopsy and blood tests are at present the best way to ensure a proper diagnosis. Testing isn't perfect. The majority of celiac cases will be found with this combination.

As for you adults who decide on the gluten-free life, Of course I respect your decision! You have made that choice of your own free will. No one made it for you.

"The majority of celiac cases will be found with this combination [biopsy and blood tests]."

Well I suppose that depends on how you define diagnosed celiac. You likely define diagnosed celiac as villous atrophy, hence this statement is biased.

In regards to your other statement, my son has proof. He had all the classic celiac symptoms: falling off the growth charts, watery D three times a day that he struggled to control, bloating, pain, paleness, lack of appetite. He had a very positive IgA tTG (three times higher than the upper reference range). We went gluten free at the the recommendation of the pediatrician that ordered the tests, before we saw the pediatric gastroenterologist. The gastroenterologist held the same opinions you do. He was old, and it's hard to teach old doctors new tricks. In the time it took to get in to see him, all my son's symptoms disappeared and he was doing fantastic. Now it's three years later, and he's doing great. He also has a world class pediatric gastroenterologist from a renounced children's hospital monitoring his CELIAC DISEASE. I have no regrets. He has celiac. We have proof. Oh, and considering my genotype, he has at least one copy of the HLA-DQ genes associated with the development of celiac. It would be child abuse to put him back on gluten at this point.