Jump to content

  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.



  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):

    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):

  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

Foods With Hydrolyzed Proteins

T.H.

By T.H.
in Super Sensitive People

Recommended Posts

T.H. Community Regular
T.H.
Posted

For those who are careful to only eat tested gluten free products but have had issues with tested gluten free products that contain hydrolyzed gluten, this might provide some possible answers why.

Open Original Shared Link

Essentially, it mentioned that in foods and beverages with hydrolyzed gluten proteins, the sandwich ELIZA test, which is usually used, may be underestimating the gluten levels. This is based on the discovered difference in accuracy between the sandwich ELIZA and a newer developed ELIZA test when it comes to detecting gluten.

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):


Bubba's Mom Enthusiast
Bubba's Mom
Posted

For those who are careful to only eat tested gluten free products but have had issues with tested gluten free products that contain hydrolyzed gluten, this might provide some possible answers why.

Open Original Shared Link

Essentially, it mentioned that in foods and beverages with hydrolyzed gluten proteins, the sandwich ELIZA test, which is usually used, may be underestimating the gluten levels. This is based on the discovered difference in accuracy between the sandwich ELIZA and a newer developed ELIZA test when it comes to detecting gluten.

That sure could explain why so many of us react to products that should be considered "safe"? I hope they switch to the newer more accurate method of testing. Sometimes companies opt for the test that means

they are in compliance, and don't need to change anything rather than public safety? :o

Skylark Collaborator
Skylark
Posted

It doesn't really explain reactions. None of us eats foods with hydrolyzed gluten like soy sauce or beer. Most hydrolyzed vegetable protein in the US not wheat, and if it's wheat it's declared as such on the label because allergic people still react. This test may pick up traces of gluten in distilled foods like whiskey and vinegar but I'd be surprised if it's enough for many people to react to.

It's not going to affect brands like Udi's, Bob's Red Mill, Glutino, Amy's, etc. In foods that aren't hydrolyzed it says the sandwich R5 is fine.

Lisa Mentor
Lisa
Posted

Hydrolyzed Gluten Protein could be corn as well and processors must, by law, identify the source of the gluten protein on labeling.

(not speaking to the point that T.H. was making, but I think it adds to the topic of concern) ;)

Of interest possibly:

Open Original Shared Link

T.H. Community Regular
T.H.
Posted
  • Author

It doesn't really explain reactions. None of us eats foods with hydrolyzed gluten like soy sauce or beer. Most hydrolyzed vegetable protein in the US not wheat, and if it's wheat it's declared as such on the label because allergic people still react.

Oh goodness, no, I didn't mean to imply that it would explain most of our reactions. Sorry 'bout that. Just mentioning it for those of us who are still able to eat some processed gluten-free foods, especially in Europe where hydrolyzed wheat is allowed as an ingredient in gluten-free foods.

I know that some people here pay attention to the ppm of gluten that foods test for, so if they were safe with, say, <10 ppm foods but kept reacting to foods with hydrolyzed wheat that were supposed to be <10 ppm, this might provide a possible explanation.

Hydrolyzed Gluten Protein could be corn as well and processors must, by law, identify the source of the gluten protein on labeling.

Of interest possibly:

Open Original Shared Link

Re: the gluten protein - good point. I didn't even think of that for those of us in the USA. I was thinking more of Europe and forgetting that hydrolyzed gluten from other grains can be found as an ingredient here.

Re: the study - From the research I've been doing, there's one limitation to the study that would seem to be a problem for super-sensitive folks, and even possibly less sensitive celiacs. When the study was done, the participants in the study had to be healthy and on a gluten-free diet for at least 5 years before participating. But unless I'm completely mistaken, at the time the study was done and when these folks were staying healthy on their gluten-free diets, the ppm standard for gluten free food in that area was 200 ppm.

So looking at it, it seems like the conclusions of the study should be more that people who can safely, regularly eat foods that are <200 ppm do well with hydrolyzed wheat gluten.

I've been trying to see if any studies have been done with hydrolyzed protein and Celiacs who regularly eat a <20 ppm diet, but I haven't found any yet. Just more research where the gluten free standard was significantly higher than 20 ppm.

Skylark Collaborator
Skylark
Posted

That makes sense. I wonder about the sourdough study. You might glance at that one. I think they were testing with R5 elisa.

dilettantesteph Collaborator
dilettantesteph
Posted

Are fermented foods considered hydrolyzed? Soy sauce is fermented and considered hydrolyzed. Does that mean that this study would apply to vinegar and grain alcohol?

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):


dilettantesteph Collaborator
dilettantesteph
Posted

I've got the study in another window. They include beer, baby food and syrup as hydrolyzed. Then they talk about beer, pasta, breadcrumbs and cake. I'm not sure if they mean gluten-free or not, but they found 68 - 218 ppm, so that couldn't be regular gluten baked goods, right? Anyone have access to the full paper and want to tell us? If you click on the link in the first post and then click on the link on the bottom you come to it.

Jestgar Rising Star
Jestgar
Posted
Preparation of self-made maize breads spiked with gliadins.

Firstly, we tested all the ingredients using the sandwich R5 ELISA

to ensure that they were gluten free. For preparation of the selfmade

breads A

Jestgar Rising Star
Jestgar
Posted
2.2.2.3. Food samples spiked with gliadins. We spiked 21 selected

food samples with 55 ppm of gliadins. To obtain a homogenous

powder and to check for a possible matrix effect that could interfere

with the analysis, the gliadins were weighed and added to the

food sample and the mixture was ground with an IKA A11 analytical

mill (IKA

Jestgar Rising Star
Jestgar
Posted
These data suggest that the R5 antibody cross-reacts with certain

soy proteins that remain in suspension in ethanol extracts

but precipitate when sample is preincubated with UPEX solution.

Consequently, we assumed that processing soybeans to produce

soy drinks might cause changes in the solubility of these proteins

leading them to remain in suspension in 60% ethanol but nor in

UPEX/60% ethanol. These results demonstrate that R5 ELISA combined

with extraction with the UPEX solution is a reliable way to

analyse gluten in soy foods

Skylark Collaborator
Skylark
Posted

Are fermented foods considered hydrolyzed? Soy sauce is fermented and considered hydrolyzed. Does that mean that this study would apply to vinegar and grain alcohol?

Yes, it would.

tom Contributor
tom
Posted

I read the OP as pertaining more to Europe's allowance of "de-glutened" wheat products & finding that they're maybe not as de-glutened as they thought.

Every Euro study is tainted in my mind when their gluten-free group is stuffing themselves w/ these products.

UKGail Rookie
UKGail
Posted

I've never seen any products with codex wheat, and wouldn't touch it if I did find any. I don't think UK celiacs are "stuffing themselves" with this rubbish. I can't speak for the rest of Europe though.

Di2011 Enthusiast
Di2011
Posted

I have to avoid an 'hydro' etc etc gluten originated sources of ingredients. I gave up researching the science etc when my experimenting led me to find any of these gluten-containing-origin ingredients didn't help my DH. It took many many months of experimenting and may just be me or my DH that reacts. Today I know that anything with all the 'gluten-free' but potentially gluten origin ingredients just simply don't help my skin condition.

tom Contributor
tom
Posted

I've never seen any products with codex wheat, and wouldn't touch it if I did find any. I don't think UK celiacs are "stuffing themselves" with this rubbish. I can't speak for the rest of Europe though.

Sorry I was a bit hyperbolic.

You really don't see products in the UK w/ de-glutened wheat starch?

I've been under the impression they're quite common in Europe.

UKGail Rookie
UKGail
Posted

Sorry I was a bit hyperbolic.

You really don't see products in the UK w/ de-glutened wheat starch?

I've been under the impression they're quite common in Europe.

Hi Tom

Yes, I always read labels, mostly reading them and putting them back on the shelves because I don't dare buy the products, as I find eating one item is ok, but eating half a dozen is not, and if I have a packet of a "gluten-free" treat in the house and find the first one ok, I find the rest hard to resist!

Most of our supermarket foods in the "free from" ranges are free from wheat, gluten and dairy. I guess the codex wheat products must be out there somewhere, but I never seem to pick them up. The UK celiac society officially approves it as gluten (but, obviously, not wheat) free. I suspect I have an allergy reaction to wheat so I take care to avoid it. I think I am probably more obsessive about this than the average UK celiac, but they can't be eating very much codex wheat if it is not commonly seen on the supermarket shelves.

However, I do understand what you mean. I am starting to think that, perhaps in the interests of making sure study cohorts are sufficiently large, researchers are sometimes glossing over sigificant differences in circumstances of their subjects, and thereby rendering their studies overly generic.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):


  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      131,979
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748
    volivier
    Newest Member
    volivier
    Joined
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121.5k
    • Total Posts
      1m
  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):



  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):


  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • knitty kitty
      New Celiac Mama in My 30s

      By knitty kitty · Posted

      @tiffanygosci, Hello.  I apologize for your thread being hijacked.   I recognize your symptoms as being similar to what I experienced, the migraines, food and chemical sensitivities, hives, nausea, the numbness and tingling, joint pain, tummy problems, sleep problems, emotional lability, and the mom brain.  My cycle returned early after I had my son, and I became pregnant again with all my symptoms worsening.  Unfortunately, I lost that baby.  In hindsight, I recognized that I was suffering so much from Thiamine deficiency and other nutritional deficiencies that I was not able to carry it.   Celiac Disease affects the absorption of nutrients from our food.  There's eight B vitamins that must be replenished every day.  Thiamine Vitamin B1 becomes depleted first because it cannot be stored very long, less than two weeks.  Other B vitamins can be stored for two months or so.  But Thiamine can get low enough to produce symptoms in as little as three days.  As the thiamine level gets lower, symptoms worsen.  Early symptoms like fatigue and anxiety are often attributed to life situations, and so frequently go unrecognized by medical professionals who "have a pill for that".   I used to get severe migraines and vomiting after gluten consumption.  Thiamine and the other B vitamins are needed to turn carbohydrates, fats and proteins into fuel for our bodies.  With a large influx of carbohydrates from gluten containing foods, the demand for Thiamine increases greatly.  Available thiamine can be depleted quickly, resulting in suddenly worsening symptoms.  Emotional stress or trauma, physical activity (athletes and laborers) and physiological stresses like pregnancy or injury (even surgery or infection) increase the need for Thiamine and can precipitate a thiamine insufficiency. Pregnancy requires more thiamine, not just for the mother, but for the child as well.  The mother's Thiamine stores are often depleted trying to meet the higher demand of a growing fetus.  Thiamine insufficiency can affect babies in utero and after birth (autism, ADHD).  Having babies close together doesn't allow time for the mother to replenish thiamine stores sufficiently.   Thiamine insufficiency can cause migraines, pins and needles (paresthesia), and gastrointestinal Beriberi (gas, bloating, diarrhea or constipation, back pain).   Thiamine deficiency can cause blurry vision, difficulty focusing, and affect the eyes in other ways.  Thiamine deficiency can damage the optic nerves.  I have permanent vision problems.  High histamine levels can make your brain feel like it's on fire or swelling inside your cranium.  High histamine levels can affect behavior and mood.  Histamine is released by Mast Cells as part of the immune system response to gluten.  Mast Cells need Thiamine to regulate histamine release.  Mast Cells without sufficient thiamine release histamine at the slightest provocation.  This shows up as sensitivities to foods, smelly chemicals, plants, and dust mites.  Thiamine and the other B vitamins are needed to lower histamine levels.  Vitamin D is needed to calm the immune system and to regulate our hormones.  Menstrual irregularities can be caused by low Vitamin D.   Celiac Disease is a disease if Malabsorption of Nutrients.  We must take great care to eat a nutritionally dense diet.  Our bodies cannot make vitamins.  We must get them from what we eat.  Supplementation with essential vitamins and minerals is warranted while we are healing and to ensure we don't become deficient over time.  Our bodies will not function properly without essential vitamins and minerals.  Doctors have swept their importance under the rug in favor of a pill that covers the symptoms but doesn't resolve the underlying issue of malnutrition. Do talk to your doctor and dietician about checking for nutritional deficiencies.  Most blood tests for the eight B vitamins do not reflect how much is available or stored inside cells.  Blood tests reflect how much is circulating in the blood stream, the transportation system.  Blood levels can be "normal" while a deficiency exists inside cells where the vitamins are actually used.  The best way to see if you're low in B vitamins is to take a B Complex, and additional Thiamine and look for improvement.   Most vitamin supplements contain Thiamine Mononitrate, which is not easily absorbed nor utilized by the body.  Only thirty percent of thiamine mononitrate listed on the label is absorbed, less is actually utilized.  This is because thiamine mononitrate is shelf stable, it won't breakdown sitting on a shelf in the grocery store.  It's so hard to breakdown, our bodies don't absorb it and can't turn it into a form the body can use.  Take Thiamine in the form Benfotiamine or TTFD (tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide) which the body can utilize much better.  (Ask for an Erythrocyte Transketolace Activity test for Thiamine level.  Though not accurate, this test does better picking up on a thiamine deficiency than a blood test.) Are you keeping your babies on a gluten free diet?  This can prevent genetically susceptible children from developing Celiac Disease.  
    • trents
      Outgrow celiac?

      By trents · Posted

      @Riley, on this forum we sometimes get reports from people with similar experiences as you. That is, their celiac disease seems to go into remission. Typically, that doesn't last. At age 18 you are at your physical-biological peek in life where your body is stronger than it will ever be and it is able to fight well against many threats and abuses. As Wheatwacked pointed out, absence of symptoms is not always a reliable indicator that no damage is being done to the body. I was one of those "silent" celiacs with no symptoms, or at least very minor symptoms, whose body was being slowly damaged for many years before the damage became pronounced enough to warrant investigation, leading to a diagnosis. By that time I had suffered significant bone demineralization and now I suffer with back and neck problems. Please, if you choose to continue consuming gluten, which I do not recommend, at least get tested regularly so that you won't get caught in the silent celiac trap down the road like I did. You really do not outgrow celiac disease. It is baked into the genes. Once the genes get triggered, as far as we know, they are turned on for good. Social rejection is something most celiacs struggle with. Being compliant with the gluten free diet places restrictions on what we can eat and where we can eat. Our friends usually try to work with us at first but then it gets to be a drag and we begin to get left out. We often lose some friends in the process but we also find out who really are our true friends. I think the hardest hits come at those times when friends spontaneously say, "Hey, let's go get some burgers and fries" and you know you can't safely do that. One way to cope in these situations is to have some ready made gluten-free meals packed in the fridge that you can take with you on the spot and still join them but eat safely. Most "real" friends will get used to this and so will you. Perhaps this little video will be helpful to you.  
    • Wheatwacked
      Outgrow celiac?

      By Wheatwacked · Posted

      @Riley., Welcome to the forum.   It was once believed that Celiac Disease was only a childhood disease and it can be outgrown.  That was before 1951, before gluten was discovered to be cause of Celiac Disease, also called Infantilism.  Back then Cileac Disease was thought to be only a gastro intestinal disease, once you  "outgrew" the colicky phase, you were cured. You were so lucky to be diagnosed at 5 years old so your developing years were normal.  Gluten can affect multiple systems.  The nervous system, your intellegence. The muscules, skeleton. It can cause neurological issues like brain fog, anxiety, and peripheral neuropathy.  It can cause joint pain, muscle weakness, and skin rashes. Epilepsy is 1.8 times more prevalent in patients with celiac disease, compared to the general population. Because through malabsorption and food avoidances, it causes vitamin D and numerouus other essential nutrient deficiencies, it allows allergies, infections, poor growth, stuffy sinuses and eustacian tubes. There is even a catagory of celiac disease called "Silent Celiac".  Any symptoms are explained away as this, that or the other thing. Gluten is one of the most addictive substances we consume.  Activating the Opiod receptors in our cells, it can numb us to the damage that it, and other foods are causing.  It has become socially acceptable to eat foods that make us feel sick.  "There's a pill for that".   It is generally accepted that n fact you are weird if you don't. The hardest part is that if you don't eat gluten you will feel great and think why not.  But slowly it will effect you, you'll be diagnosed with real diseases that you don't have. You'll be more susseptable to other autoimmune diseases.  As you read through the posts here, notice how many are finally dianosed, after years of suffering at older ages.  Is it worth it? I think not. Perhaps this book will help:  Here is a list of possible symptoms:   
    • Riley.
      Outgrow celiac?

      By Riley. · Posted

      Hi! Im Riley, 18 years old and have been diagnosed for 13 years.. the testing started bc I stopped growing and didn’t gain any weight and was really small and thin for my age.  I got diagnosed when I was 5 and have been living gluten free since, in elementary and middle school it was hard for me and I kept contaminating myself bc I wanted to fit in with my friends so so badly. I ate gluten secretly at school and mostly regretted it 30 minutes later.  I’ve had symptoms like diarrhea, nausea, headaches, stomachaches, threw up a lot and was really emotional.  In 2022 I really started working on myself and tried to stay gluten free and if I did eat gluten I wouldn’t tell anyone and suffer in silence.  Last year in July I begged my mom to let me „cheat“ one day bc I just wanted to fit in… I ate a lot of different stuff, all the stuff I missed out on in my childhood like nuggets, pizza and all that.. I didn’t have symptoms that day and was doing really fine My mom and I wanted to test how far we can go and said we would test it for 12 weeks to get my blood taken after to see if I’m doing good or if symptoms start showing  As a now 18 year old girl who finally gained a normal weight and doesn’t get symptoms I’m to scared to get tested/my blood taken cuz I finally found comfort in food and it got so much easier for me and my family.  A year and 4 months later i still didn’t get any symptoms and have been eating gluten daily.  I’m scared to get tested/my blood taken cuz what if I’m actually not fine and have to go back to eating gluten free. Any tips to get over that fear and „suck it up“ cuz I know I could seriously damage my body… sorry if I seem like a idiot here… just don’t really know what to do :,)
    • Mari
      New Celiac Mama in My 30s

      By Mari · Posted

      There is much helpful 'truth' posted on this forum. Truths about Celiac Disease are based on scientific research and people's experience. Celiac disease is inherited. There are 2 main Celiac 'genes' but they are variations of one gene called HLa - DQ What is inherited when a person inherits one or both of the DQ2 or the DQ8 is a predisposition to develop celiac disease after exposure to a environmental trigger. These 2 versions of the DQ gene are useful in diagnosing  celiac disease but there are about 25 other genes that are known to influence celiac disease so this food intolerance is a multigenic autoimmune disease. So with so many genes involved and each person inheriting a different array of these other genes one person's symptoms may be different than another's symptoms.  so many of these other genes.  I don't think that much research on these other genes as yet. So first I wrote something that seem to tie together celiac disease and migraines.  Then you posted that you had migraines and since you went gluten free they only come back when you are glutened. Then Scott showed an article that reported no connection between migraines and celiac disease, Then Trents wrote that it was possible that celiacs had more migraines  and some believed there was a causal effect. You are each telling the truth as you know it or experienced it.   
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

NOTICE: This site places This site places cookies on your device (Cookie settings). on your device. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use, and Privacy Policy.