Bifidobacterium Experience - Die-Off Or Not?

[outofsorts]

Hi,

Recently, I experimented with taking a 1 billion CFU probiotic that contains exclusively Bifidobacterium strains (no Acidophilus strains are in this probiotic). Specifically, the particular strains contained in this probiotic are:

-Bifidobacterium longum BB536 (morinaga strain)

-Bifidobacterium bifidum

-Bifidobacterium breve

-Bifidobacterium infantis

I took 1 to 2 "pearls" of this probiotic daily. But I've since stopped - at least temporarily - because within 2 days of starting the probiotic, I experienced marked adverse effects. The bulk of this adverse reaction was concentrated in my head area - I seemed to have peculiar symptoms that can generally be classified under the broad umbrella of "brain fog". I would literally feel as if my head/brain were being "poisoned". Chemical and electrical sensitivities that I've been struggling with for the past few years were intensified. It's pretty hard to describe, actually. Actually, I'm a bit afraid to describe it too well, for fear of what these symptoms may represent. These symptoms weren't exactly new to me, though - they were just (re)aggravations of symptoms that I've been dealing with (to varying degrees) for at least the past few years.

Another adverse symptom I experienced was worsening of my breath odor - especially upon awakening. I also became a little more "constipated" than I have been here recently - I would go longer between bowel movements.

This experience leaves me frustrated and a bit confused. First of all - I've been trying to figure out if this is the much-talked-about "die-off". It is tempting to classify my symptoms as a "die-off" reaction - but I don't want to embrace this concept too quickly, because it's possible that my reaction could be an entirely different thing altogether. Would such a small dose of probiotics cause a quick onset of die-off? How can I determine if this is die-off, or a more straightforward adverse reaction (and a sign that this supplement may not be right for me)?

Funny - when I was taking a probiotic that contains a much larger dose (5 billion CFU) of a mixture of Acidophilus and Bifidobacterium strains - I didn't have nearly the adverse response. Which leads me to my next question - is there something about the Bifidobacterium family of probiotics that leads to more severe "die-off"? Do Acidophilus strains and Bifidobacterium strains balance each other in some way?

Any feedback is appreciated. TIA!

[icm]

Is the 'die-off' effect considered a validated concept?

I had 0 bifidobacteria on a recent stool test cdsa.

Took a probiotic w/bifidobacteria in it for 2 months and still the reading was 0.

Did you do a complete digestive stool analysis (cdsa) test?

[Newbee]

I read that they have found higher than normal amounts of the bifidobacteria in people with celiac. So some believe that this bacteria actually causes problems and if you want to supplement with a probiotic the only kind you want to have in there is the acidophilus. After reading this I stopped taking a probiotic at all. This combined with the SCD (minus the yogurt they recommend) has made things better for me (although not perfect).

[icm]

I read that they have found higher than normal amounts of the bifidobacteria in people with celiac. So some believe that this bacteria actually causes problems and if you want to supplement with a probiotic the only kind you want to have in there is the acidophilus. After reading this I stopped taking a probiotic at all. This combined with the SCD (minus the yogurt they recommend) has made things better for me (although not perfect).

Can you link me to any of these references that highlight the bad properties of bifidobacteria? I know that foods higher in inulin like chicory when given in large doses are thought to automatically stimulate bifidobacteria to regenerate...

[Newbee]

Unfortunately I can not remember where I read this. Interesting to hear about the inulin connection. I ate something twice this week that was high in inulin and have been having digestive issues ever since.

[icm]

Unfortunately I can not remember where I read this. Interesting to hear about the inulin connection. I ate something twice this week that was high in inulin and have been having digestive issues ever since.

A GI specialist I talked with earlier this week told me he's unaware of any real benefits of bifidobacteria. Wheat fiber stimulates growth of bifidobacteria but very few gluten free grain fibers do. He also said to me that one scary aspect of having a high bifido count is that if the gut becomes highly permeable and bifido strains spill into the bloodstream all sorts of auto immune diseases can initiate. Type 1 diabetes often occurs in children and the higher bifido count may explain part of the connection.

It may also tell us why bread eaters often develop other autoimmune issues besides celiac... Interesting. :s

[burdee]

Hi,

Recently, I experimented with taking a 1 billion CFU probiotic that contains exclusively Bifidobacterium strains (no Acidophilus strains are in this probiotic). Specifically, the particular strains contained in this probiotic are:

-Bifidobacterium longum BB536 (morinaga strain)

-Bifidobacterium bifidum

-Bifidobacterium breve

-Bifidobacterium infantis

I took 1 to 2 "pearls" of this probiotic daily. But I've since stopped - at least temporarily - because within 2 days of starting the probiotic, I experienced marked adverse effects. The bulk of this adverse reaction was concentrated in my head area - I seemed to have peculiar symptoms that can generally be classified under the broad umbrella of "brain fog". I would literally feel as if my head/brain were being "poisoned". Chemical and electrical sensitivities that I've been struggling with for the past few years were intensified. It's pretty hard to describe, actually. Actually, I'm a bit afraid to describe it too well, for fear of what these symptoms may represent. These symptoms weren't exactly new to me, though - they were just (re)aggravations of symptoms that I've been dealing with (to varying degrees) for at least the past few years.

Another adverse symptom I experienced was worsening of my breath odor - especially upon awakening. I also became a little more "constipated" than I have been here recently - I would go longer between bowel movements.

This experience leaves me frustrated and a bit confused. First of all - I've been trying to figure out if this is the much-talked-about "die-off". It is tempting to classify my symptoms as a "die-off" reaction - but I don't want to embrace this concept too quickly, because it's possible that my reaction could be an entirely different thing altogether. Would such a small dose of probiotics cause a quick onset of die-off? How can I determine if this is die-off, or a more straightforward adverse reaction (and a sign that this supplement may not be right for me)?

Funny - when I was taking a probiotic that contains a much larger dose (5 billion CFU) of a mixture of Acidophilus and Bifidobacterium strains - I didn't have nearly the adverse response. Which leads me to my next question - is there something about the Bifidobacterium family of probiotics that leads to more severe "die-off"? Do Acidophilus strains and Bifidobacterium strains balance each other in some way?

Any feedback is appreciated. TIA!

I suspect your symptoms were caused by decreasing your probiotic dose from 5 billion to 1-2 billion viable cells daily. 5 billion isn't that much in terms of good bacteria. I take a probiotic with 50 billion daily and only experience a bit of gas immmediately after taking that.

I don't understand your comment about 'die off'. Were you taking probiotics to treat a yeast (candida) overgrowth? "Die off" is usually associated with yeast infections. However, I treated candida with Nystatin followed by high dose probiotics. I never experience any 'die off' symptoms. I suspect your body had grown accustomed to a higher dose of probiotic, before you reduced that dose. and reacted to a 'deficiency' rather than too much probiotics.