Osteoporosis

[Catlinds33]

I had hip replacement surgery five weeks ago when they did the surgery I had a bone fracture no idea I had it or when I got it has anyone had any issues with bone fractures 

[cristiana]

Hello Catlinds and welcome to the forum.

I am sorry to hear about your fracture.

I haven't had this problem but I understand it is relatively common for coeliacs to have issues with bone density, predisposing us to osteopenia/osteoporosis, so  I hope others on this forum will be able to help you.

Assuming you are a coeliac, out of interest, have you ever been offered a bone density scan (DEXA) and if so, did they find you had any bone mass loss?

Cristiana

[Catlinds33]

I was diagnosed about three years ago I’m 51 I am going to have my doctor order a bone density test 

[cristiana]

I think that would be a very good move and will help your doctor identify if low bone mineral density is an issue.

It would be good also to find out what your vitamin D levels are like as vitamin D helps with calcium absorption, essential to building strong bones.   See if you can get your doctor to run this blood test.  

I was diagnosed in 2013 and in the UK where I live coeliacs are generally offered a DEXA scan fairly soon after diagnosis.  I was then offered one about five years later.  Thankfully there wasn't any noticeable bone mineral density loss, but my gastroenterologist took a blood test and noticed my vitamin D levels were worse than when I was first diagnosed.  I suspect this could be because in the UK a lot of bread and cereals have vitamin D added, whilst a lot of gluten-free products don't .  Anyway, I am now prescribed vitamin D and my levels are slowly rising to what they were at diagnosis.  This should be helpful for keeping my bones in good shape.  It would be helpful and perhaps preferable if could get my vitamin D through sun exposure, but I do live in England....

Anyway, I do recommend you read this very helpful article on bone density from Coeliac UK's website.  Hopefully others will chime in soon. 

Cristiana

https://www.coeliac.org.uk/information-and-support/coeliac-disease/conditions-linked-to-coeliac-disease/osteoporosis/#:~:text=Osteoporosis is when your bones,coeliac disease at any age.

Edited October 13, 2021 by cristiana

[Catlinds33]

My vitamin D,B and Iron levels are low I take vitamins but I remember being diagnosed with anemia when I was I teen I’m 51 back then I don’t think they would have thought to look for celiac.  As I was they misdiagnosed me with acid reflux finally when my symptoms kept getting worse they thought to test me for celiac my family was tested and my sister has it but she had no symptoms 

[cristiana]

Those are common deficiencies in coeliacs.  You may find you may need to take a higher dosage of vitamin D than you are currently taking - this is worth raising with your doctor.

 

 

[Catlinds33]

Thank you for the advice I will keep you updated 

[trents]

Magnesium is also ver important to bone health.

[Scott Adams]

We've done many articles on the connection between osteoporosis and celiac disease, which are in this category:

https://www.celiac.com/celiac-disease/celiac-disease-amp-related-diseases-and-disorders/osteoporosis-osteomalacia-bone-density-and-celiac-disease/

I would definitely share any that you deem important to your situation with your doctor.

[De De]

2 hours ago, Catlinds33 said:

I had hip replacement surgery five weeks ago when they did the surgery I had a bone fracture no idea I had it or when I got it has anyone had any issues with bone fractures 

Yes I have broken Every bone in my left leg 

I broke my ankle and didn't find out until a year later so yes having Celiac is somewhat the cause to the brittle bones. I have had a total of 16 surgery and 15 of those was on my left leg two knee replacement surgery on my ankle twice. 

[Catlinds33]

Wow I’m sorry to hear that all my problems are on my left my hip was not surprising because I was born with dislocated hips but I also have a herniated disk on L4 L5 and sciatica on the left side 

[De De]

17 hours ago, Catlinds33 said:

Wow I’m sorry to hear that all my problems are on my left my hip was not surprising because I was born with dislocated hips but I also have a herniated disk on L4 L5 and sciatica on the left side 

I also have a spinal cord injury due a stalker so I can kinda relate due to all the things that this bullet has made my body go through. With me getting older more things are starting to develop 

[Wheatwacked]

Ten or more grams of fresh parsley a day exceeds the RDA for vitamin K.

Quote

Vitamin K is in fact required for osteocalcin carboxylation that in turn regulates bone mineral accretion; it seems to promote the transition of osteoblasts to osteocytes and also limits the process of osteoclastogenesis.   https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0026049517300458

Quote

"Cheung et al. performed a four-year study on postmenopausal women with osteopenia and normal levels of vitamin D [21]. They found that fewer women on vitamin K1 (phylloquinone) 500 mcg/day had a clinical fracture than the placebo"   https://www.metabolismjournal.com/article/S0026-0495(17)30045-8/fulltext

 

Quote

Bone mineral consists of calcium phosphate, and phosphorus is as important as calcium in supporting bone augmentation and maintenance...Although typical adult diets contain abundant phosphorus, 10% to 15% of older women have intakes of less than 70% of the recommended daily allowance. When these women take high-dose calcium supplements that consist of the carbonate or citrate salts, all their food phosphorus may be bound and hence unavailable for absorption.   https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(11)63261-8/fulltext

 

[trents]

Just a word of caution here about vitamin K supplementation or eating foods high in vitamin K. If you are on the blood thinner warfarin (aka, coumadin, Jantoven) you need to realize that vitamin K is the antagonist of that blood thinning medication. If you make significant changes to your dietary intake of K you need to make sure you alert your clinician manager to the change. Significant increases in K intake will likely mean you will need to increase your warfarin dosage. And it would be important to be consistent in your K supplementation or in the amount of high K foods you may have added.

[knitty kitty]

I recently stumbled across this book.....

http://doctorkatend.com/vitamin-k2-and-the-calcium-paradox/

This book explains the difference between Vitamin K1 which is involved in blood clotting and Vitamin K2 which is required in bone formation.  

So not only do we need Vitamin D and Vitamin A, we need Vitamin K2 and calcium to make our bones stronger.  

Here's more....

https://www.optimyz.com/vitamin-k2-and-the-calcium-paradox/

Vitamin K2 is found in pasture fed beef and free range eggs.  

And yes, I've had a problem with osteoporosis.  I've had a broken leg and more recently crushed vertebrae and a cracked pelvis.  

 

[trents]

k2 has some role in blood clotting but not as much of a factor as k1 apparently:

"The body needs both types of vitamin K to produce prothrombin, a protein that plays crucial roles in blood clotting, bone metabolism, and heart health. Vitamin K also helps facilitate energy production in the mitochondria of cells.

Vitamin K-1 is primarily involved in blood coagulation. K-2 may have a more diverse range of functions in the body."

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325059#functions

k2 is found only in animal sources with the exception of some fermented soy products.

[Wheatwacked]

I brought up vitamin K because it is one of the vitamins affected by the malapsorbtion caused by Celiac and it seems to me, too often ignored until it is too late. K2 puts the Calcium in our bones instead of in our arteries. 

5 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

https://www.optimyz.com/vitamin-k2-and-the-calcium-paradox/

So after hip replacement you are put on Warfarin (or similar) to prevent clots, but the warfarin inhibits vitamin K which causes further bone density loss and further calcification of the arteries. I don't know the answer but it makes sense to me to proactively make sure you are getting enough vitamin K in your diet, before it becomes an irreversible spriral.  Father broke femur neck, mother broke arm and my Dexa scan says I have osteopenia, so it peaked my interest.

Quote

Study signals need for vitamin k2 with statin use, says firm   https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2021/03/08/Study-signals-need-for-vitamin-k2-with-statin-use-says-firm?utm_source=copyright&utm_medium=OnSite&utm_campaign=copyright

 

[ChristyCD]

Great thread although I'm saddened to hear of all the bone issues!

After my celiac diagnosis in 2012 at age 49, I learned I had lost 20% of my bone density as compared to a DEXA scan I had in my mid-30s. One measurement showed borderline osteoporosis and the other indicated osteopenia. By 2015 after I was gluten free for three years, my bone density improved significantly but then in 2019 (the next scan done) and again in 2021, both measurements indicated osteoporosis. I have silent celiac and discovered I was getting routinely exposed to gluten cross-contamination in restaurants after my osteoporosis diagnosis in 2019 so that may have contributed to the bone loss. I'm happy to report my density did not get worse (although also not better) between 2019 and 2021. I had an endoscopy this year and my formerly cobblestoned small intestine has healed so I'm hopeful I'm absorbing nutrients well now.

I take many supplements but this thread is reminding me I need to revisit this. The doctors want me to take long-term (six month or one year) osteoporosis drugs but I'm concerned about adverse reactions plus have heard that while they improve bone density, they don't actually reduce the risk of fractures. I'll have a look at the links Scott Adams posted - thanks for that.

Best wishes for speedy healing, Catlinda33.

[Wheatwacked]

52 minutes ago, ChristyCD said:

while they improve bone density, they don't actually reduce the risk of fractures.

I have read and believe that.  My understanding is that it lays down bone mass, but not in the organized way it originally was, so while the drug does add mass it does not add strength.  Not to mention the side effects.  My T is -2.4 femur neck. Spine and hip a little better.  The company coded it Postmenpausal Scan and the insurance refused to pay. I am a 70 year old man so inappropriate. So the company resubmitted corectly and now insurance refuses to pay because it had already been submitted. What happens if I really get sick? It is like an Abbott and Costello routine.

So I realized that just like everything else, I need to find the right solution. Apparently it is the vitamin K that is in charge of where to put bone.  I found no studies that look at calcium, vitamin D and vitamin K at the same time.  Boron, Phosphorous and Potassium are also imprortant. There is more potassium in the ribs and hips than calcium. Could it be the potassium that makes it less brittle?  I hope by eating my 10+ grams of parsely for vitamin K every day and keeping D way up and calcium around 3200 a day it will improve.  Phosphous is not a problem for me, Boron I have no way to track, and I eat on average 5 grams of Potassium daily. Won't know till the next DEXA. If ever.  Worst case, If I make it more than 10 years without a break, I'll know I was right.😁

[ChristyCD]

15 hours ago, Wheatwacked said:

Apparently it is the vitamin K that is in charge of where to put bone.  I found no studies that look at calcium, vitamin D and vitamin K at the same time.  Boron, Phosphorous and Potassium are also imprortant. There is more potassium in the ribs and hips than calcium. Could it be the potassium that makes it less brittle?  I hope by eating my 10+ grams of parsely for vitamin K every day and keeping D way up and calcium around 3200 a day it will improve.  Phosphous is not a problem for me, Boron I have no way to track, and I eat on average 5 grams of Potassium daily.

My T is -2.5 in all locations now and I'm only 59. I don't even like thinking about the possible long-term progression and consequences.

Ugh on your not so funny Abbott and Costello routine. Good luck with that!

I get overwhelmed trying to plot the best micronutrient strategy. I use consumerlab.com as a (subscription-based) resource and they share a lot of research as well as evaluations of whether various formulations contain what they claim to contain, whether they have heavy metals in them, and more. Where do you find your research?

I just read today that taking strontium can artificially skew bone density scans because it's more dense than calcium and my calcium supplement does contain strontium. This feels like a never-ending quest for the best strategy.

I hate parsley but good for you for eating it! I too keep vitamin D way up but don't go as high with calcium as you describe since there are downsides to taking excessive calcium.

P.S. I love your forum name!!

[Wheatwacked]

about two years ago I created a spreadsheet that calculates the nutrients in what I eat and totals it. The source database is the National Nutrition Database SR28 which has since changed. mine:   http://nutrientlog.doodlesnotes.net/. Haven't made it interactive on the website, but have gotten to 100% RDA for everything, some days.

 https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/download-datasets.html#bkmk-2

doctor wants 1200 calcium supplements and I try for 1000 to 2000 in food. She also knows I take 250 mcg D3 and my whole list of vitamins. Seems to be working well. Getting BP down, lipids trending down. homocystein normal. eGFR steady at 55 since 2018

 

 

[Beverage]

I agree with the recommendations for K2. I take it at the same time as D3. I was not having much success getting my D levels up until I added K2, and voila, in the normal range.  I think it's K2 MK7 that is the one to take.