Feels like I can’t eat anything

[Liquid lunch]

5 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Sometimes while increasing the dose of Thiamine, a person can experience flu like symptoms

Hi @knitty kitty. Thanks for the info, I was feeling loads better on 100mg of the HCL but then read more of your posts so increased it to 500mg at the same time as my benfotiamine 250mg arrived in the post and it’s been knocking me out. I was worried the benfotiamine wasn’t gluten free but maybe I just need to reduce the HCL a bit.

I drink a lot of coffee and have been taking all the thiamine/benfotiamine in one go first thing so I only have to wait 2 hours until coffee o’clock. Probably doesn’t help.

[knitty kitty]

@Liquid lunch,

 I take Benfotiamine (or Allithiamine) first thing in the morning.  It's better than coffee to get my brain going in the morning.  

Spread the Thiamine HCL three hours apart afterwards throughout the day.  Our bodies can absorb about 300 mg in about three hours.  

Caffeine, coffee, chocolate and black tea can inactivate thiamine, so take Thiamine separately, like you're doing.  

It just takes a bit of finagling to get the amount and timing adjusted to your body, but it really makes a difference.

Are you taking any magnesium?  Thiamine needs magnesium to make some important enzymes and neurotransmitters.  I take Magnesium Glycinate, it's really gentle and doesn't have a strong laxative effect.  

Are you taking a B Complex?  Thiamine needs the other B vitamins to make enzymes and energy, so adding a B Complex supplement ensures you have plenty for thiamine to work with.  

Don't feel bad.  I took 1500 mg of Thiamine Hydrochloride all at once when starting.  Bad idea. Very bad idea.  It's called the Thiamine Paradox.  Too much too fast.  But thiamine is water soluble, nontoxic, and gets excreted easily.  So just space your doses out. 

You're doing so well, @Liquid lunch!  Thanks for sharing your progress!  Keep us posted on further progress! 

 

[Liquid lunch]

3 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Are you taking any magnesium? 

 

3 hours ago, knitty kitty said:

Are you taking a B Complex? 

I’ve always been a bit worried about taking supplements because I don’t know much about them so might end up doing more harm than good but the HCL worked so well I’ve stocked up on all the other recommended ones,

B complex, magnesium citrate, D3, vit c, benfotiamine, chelated copper and zinc. Not cheap but I’m determined not to spend the rest of my days being ill. Is magnesium citrate a laxative?

Allithiamine is on its way.

[knitty kitty]

@Liquid lunch,

It can be if you take too much.  If your stools do start getting loose, cut back on the magnesium citrate.  The label should tell you how many to take daily.  You do NOT need high doses of magnesium if taking high dose Thiamine. 

Milk of Magnesia has been used as a laxative for ages.  It's magnesium oxide which the body doesn't really absorb.  Instead, the magnesium draws water into the intestines.  

Magnesium citrate is more easily absorbed as is magnesium glycinate.  I've used both.  My body likes the magnesium glycinate.  

I'm excited to hear what you think about the Allithiamine.  Do let me know when it arrives!  Try a small dose first.  I like to take 100 mg Thiamine HCl with my morning Allithiamine.  The two forms, thiamine HCl and Allithiamine,  work really well together.   The Benfotiamine I take already has Thiamine HCl included.   

Cheers!

[knitty kitty]

Here's a link to the National institutes of Health information....

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Thiamin-HealthProfessional/

Use the search bar for other vitamins and minerals...

[SargeMaximus]

Update: Pills finally arrived. Are these the ones that heal the intestines @knitty kitty?
https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Now-Foods-Vitamin-B-1-Thiamine-100-mg-100-Tablets-2-Pack/PRD4WOCNWIC4MC7

And do I have to store them in the fridge at all? 
 

Also another update: Today i felt amazing. Like, unnaturally so. Ate nothing but Fava beans, black beans, Potatoes, and oatmeal. Thought it was worth mentioning 

[knitty kitty]

@SargeMaximus,

That's Thiamine Hydrochloride.  Yes, it will help with your symptoms.  

You may be thinking of Benfotiamine which has been shown to lower inflammation and help heal the intestines...

Anti-Inflammatory Effects of Benfotiamine are Mediated Through the Regulation of Arachidonic Acid Pathway in Macrophages

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249497/

And here...

https://www.walmart.ca/search?q=Benfotiamine

I believe you opted for the Thiamine Hydrochloride due to cost and availability.

No, you don't have to refrigerate them.

Edited February 1, 2023 by knitty kitty
Typo

[SargeMaximus]

39 minutes ago, knitty kitty said:

@SargeMaximus,

That's Thiamine Hydrochloride.  Yes, it will help with your symptoms.  

You may be thinking of Benfotiamine which has been shown to lower inflammation and help heal the intestines...

Anti-Inflammatory Effects of Benfotiamine are Mediated Through the Regulation of Arachidonic Acid Pathway in Macrophages

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249497/

And here...

https://www.walmart.ca/search?q=Benfotiamine

I believe you opted for the Thiamine Hydrochloride due to cost and availability.

No, you don't have to refrigerate them.

Yes that’s correct but I’m thinking I need to heal my intestines so which one if best for that? Thanks

[knitty kitty]

@SargeMaximus,

Benfotiamine.

[SargeMaximus]

5 minutes ago, knitty kitty said:

@SargeMaximus,

Benfotiamine.

Ok thank you

[SargeMaximus]

Update: First day of taking the B-1. Not noticing anything out of the ordinary

[Liquid lunch]

12 hours ago, SargeMaximus said:

Update: First day of taking the B-1. Not noticing anything out of the ordinary

Are you taking it with magnesium? Apparently that’s important. Kitty was saying 500mg a day of B1 with magnesium for three days to see if it’s going to work.

[SargeMaximus]

4 hours ago, Liquid lunch said:

Are you taking it with magnesium? Apparently that’s important. Kitty was saying 500mg a day of B1 with magnesium for three days to see if it’s going to work.

I eat lots of beans which are high in magnesium 

[Liquid lunch]

21 hours ago, SargeMaximus said:

I eat lots of beans which are high in magnesium 

Kitty probably knows more about this but I think the problem is if you have celiac then the villi in your small intestine gets damaged so you can’t absorb nutrients properly from food.

I only eat highly nutrient dense foods but feel much better since I started taking all the supplements.

I reckon I must’ve been deficient.

[Wheatwacked]

Once on GFD the villi heal and absorbtion is normal. Vitamin D is the one to watch because we just don't eat much food with it and the RDA is only enough to prevent Rickets in our indoors based society. Unless you are getting lots of sun, it always stays low, leaving our autoimmune and mental health under powered. RDA's are set to the mininum. Best results from NHANES studies is somewhere above RDA and below UL. 

(RDA): Average daily level of intake sufficient to meet the nutrient requirements of nearly all (97%–98%) healthy individuals; Adequate Intake (AI): Intake at this level is assumed to ensure nutritional adequacy; Estimated Average Requirement (EAR): Average daily level of intake estimated to meet the requirements of 50% of healthy individuals; Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL): Maximum daily intake unlikely to cause adverse health effects.

Choline: FNB established AIs for all ages that are based on the prevention of liver damage as measured by serum alanine aminostransferase levels... A pilot study in 15 adults on TPN found that NAFLD resolved completely in all patients who received their usual TPN regimen with an additional 2 g choline and in none of the patients who received their usual TPN regimen only   https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Choline-HealthProfessional/#h2

Beans are also good for potassium, especially small red beans. AI for potassium in the US is 3400 mg for adults over 20.  100% DV (on the nutrition labels) in the US is 4700 mg. I think to get a 2:1 potassium to salt ratio in our high salt processed foods.

100gm (3 1/2 ounce)-= K/Na 42:1; 336 Kcal; Fiber 22 gm; carbs 64 gm; iron 4.4; magnesium 189 gm; phoshorus 447 gm; potassium 1200 gm (100% DV is 4700 gm); copper 8 mg; folate 482 mcg

Edited February 3, 2023 by Wheatwacked

[Liquid lunch]

1 hour ago, Wheatwacked said:

Once on GFD the villi heal and absorbtion is normal

How long does this take on average? So I should take all the recommended supplements until my villi recover and then stop taking all but the D3?

[Wheatwacked]

Every one is different. Depends on how much damage you have and your nutrient intake. Doctors generally tell you don't eat gluten, see you next year, but don't prescribe or recommend nutrient replenishment. Healing of the villi can take two or three months in younger people, several years in older people. The vitamins and minerals, as you already see, are to compensate for not being able to absorb efficiently, or may be missing. With a nutrient rich diet I think you will do well. Since 1970 the average intake of Iodine has dropped by 50%. Thyroid disease, obesity, metabolic disease,breast cancer, andTestosterone supplement advertising has increased. Choline is my favorite example. Less than 10% of developed country populations eat enough. It takes 10 cups of cooked brocolli for the AI. About 100 cups for the UL. Or 4 large eggs or about a 21 ounce top round steak for the AI. 16 eggs a day for the Safe Upper Limit. Hard to do, without supplementing. Taking vitamins and minerals is not an admission of personal failure. It is the failure of our SAD diet.

 

[SargeMaximus]

14 hours ago, Wheatwacked said:

Every one is different. Depends on how much damage you have and your nutrient intake. Doctors generally tell you don't eat gluten, see you next year, but don't prescribe or recommend nutrient replenishment. Healing of the villi can take two or three months in younger people, several years in older people. The vitamins and minerals, as you already see, are to compensate for not being able to absorb efficiently, or may be missing. With a nutrient rich diet I think you will do well. Since 1970 the average intake of Iodine has dropped by 50%. Thyroid disease, obesity, metabolic disease,breast cancer, andTestosterone supplement advertising has increased. Choline is my favorite example. Less than 10% of developed country populations eat enough. It takes 10 cups of cooked brocolli for the AI. About 100 cups for the UL. Or 4 large eggs or about a 21 ounce top round steak for the AI. 16 eggs a day for the Safe Upper Limit. Hard to do, without supplementing. Taking vitamins and minerals is not an admission of personal failure. It is the failure of our SAD diet.

 

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom

So my biggest issue with going full gluten free is snacks at work. I am in a very physically demanding job and snacks are a must so I usually have a cliff bar or peanut butter sandwich. Obviously those have gluten but is there a gluten free protein and carb rich alternative you can think of?

And what about alcohol? I don't drink much but the occasional scotch or beer is all. Thanks.

Edit: Oh and what suppliments should I take then to get me all I need and help me heal fastest.

[trents]

2 hours ago, SargeMaximus said:

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom

So my biggest issue with going full gluten free is snacks at work. I am in a very physically demanding job and snacks are a must so I usually have a cliff bar or peanut butter sandwich. Obviously those have gluten but is there a gluten free protein and carb rich alternative you can think of?

And what about alcohol? I don't drink much but the occasional scotch or beer is all. Thanks.

Edit: Oh and what suppliments should I take then to get me all I need and help me heal fastest.

SargeMaximus,

So, your aren't eating gluten free after all! I think everyone participating in this thread assumed you were. I wish you had mentioned the snacks at work early on in this thread. You are not even close to eating gluten free if you are eating wheat bread sandwiches regularly at work. In fact, the celiac antibody pretest guidelines for those who have been on a gluten free diet and then want to get tested is the daily consumption of two slices of wheat bread or the gluten equivalent for 6-8 weeks. If you can't afford gluten-free bread then just eat the peanut butter by the spoonful. It's one of the most calorie dense foods there is with considerable protein to boot.

My friend, you have now revealed the secret to all of the problems you have been describing in this lengthy thread. It's not too much potassium or too much magnesium or any of those things. You must start using gluten free bread. Your biggest need is to eliminate gluten and eliminate all of it. Your gut will not heal until you do. You ask about what supplements to take for fast gut healing. Your much bigger need is to commit to gluten free eating. Until you do, no amount of vitamins and minerals will help.

Scotch is probably ok because it is distilled. Beer made from barley or wheat is not. There are gluten free beers available.

Edited February 4, 2023 by trents

[SargeMaximus]

1 hour ago, trents said:

SargeMaximus,

So, your aren't eating gluten free after all! I think everyone participating in this thread assumed you were. I wish you had mentioned the snacks at work early on in this thread. You are not even close to eating gluten free if you are eating wheat bread sandwiches regularly at work. In fact, the celiac antibody pretest guidelines for those who have been on a gluten free diet and then want to get tested is the daily consumption of two slices of wheat bread or the gluten equivalent for 6-8 weeks. If you can't afford gluten-free bread then just eat the peanut butter by the spoonful. It's one of the most calorie dense foods there is with considerable protein to boot.

My friend, you have now revealed the secret to all of the problems you have been describing in this lengthy thread. It's not too much potassium or too much magnesium or any of those things. You must start using gluten free bread. Your biggest need is to eliminate gluten and eliminate all of it. Your gut will not heal until you do. You ask about what supplements to take for fast gut healing. Your much bigger need is to commit to gluten free eating. Until you do, no amount of vitamins and minerals will help.

Scotch is probably ok because it is distilled. Beer made from barley or wheat is not. There are gluten free beers available.

No I mentioned several times I ate Cliff bars (someone even told me they had gluten) and I'm sure I mentioned bread as well. TBF the bread is a recent addition only because of the new job, and all my problems existed BEFORE I added bread to my diet. I do have burgers occasionally but I think I mentioned that as well. When I started this topic: I had not regularly had bread or anything gluten for years. Time has passed since then and as I mentioned, I had to add bread for my job.

As for peanut butter by the spoonful: that is not practical for while I am working!

[trents]

1 hour ago, SargeMaximus said:

No I mentioned several times I ate Cliff bars (someone even told me they had gluten) and I'm sure I mentioned bread as well. TBF the bread is a recent addition only because of the new job, and all my problems existed BEFORE I added bread to my diet. I do have burgers occasionally but I think I mentioned that as well. When I started this topic: I had not regularly had bread or anything gluten for years. Time has passed since then and as I mentioned, I had to add bread for my job.

As for peanut butter by the spoonful: that is not practical for while I am working!

Well, now that you are eating bread on a regular basis, you should get tested for celiac disease.

[SargeMaximus]

2 hours ago, trents said:

Well, now that you are eating bread on a regular basis, you should get tested for celiac disease.

You are getting distracted from the issues that brought me here in the first place that were present without bread in my diet

[trents]

4 hours ago, SargeMaximus said:

You are getting distracted from the issues that brought me here in the first place that were present without bread in my diet

Without bread or without gluten entirely? There is more to avoiding gluten than just eliminating loaf bread. Gluten is found in a myriad of food products that people never would expect to find it. Simply eliminating bread might allow you to achieve a lower gluten but not gluten free.

[SargeMaximus]

27 minutes ago, trents said:

Without bread or without gluten entirely? There is more to avoiding gluten than just eliminating loaf bread. Gluten is found in a myriad of food products that people never would expect to find it. Simply eliminating bread might allow you to achieve a lower gluten but not gluten free.

Yes I know. I knew about gluten years ago and went gluten free

[trents]

47 minutes ago, SargeMaximus said:

Yes I know. I knew about gluten years ago and went gluten free

So, help me understand. You seem convinced that gluten is not your problem and that you don't have either celiac disease or NCGS. Then why did you come here to an online community dedicated to helping people who likely have one of those two gluten-related problems?