Do They Really Know How Long It Takes Villi To Heal ?

[marciab]

I am wondering because if going gluten free prior to having immune system tests run can affect the results, why can't we assume that it will affect the villi as well ? Six months seems like a really long time for a body part to heal. They send new mothers back to work after only 6 weeks.

Did they subject the same individuals to multiple biopsies at the same intervals and determined that it takes 6 months to heal ? Or is this just an average ? And how do we know those people were not getting gluten from hidden sources ? We all know how easy this is.

I'm asking because I read on the Nexium package insert that a therapuetic dosage is only needed for 3 - 6 weeks (can't remember which right now). But, I know people who take it or another PPI every day. And my GI told me that I would have to stay on it forever.

So, if an irritated esophagus can heal in 3 - 6 weeks, why can't villi ? Is is possible that the villi are actually only irritated if we are still eating gluten ? This is the way DH works. It goes away when we get the gluten out of our systems. And the "C" and "D", pains get out of our systems all within a week or two.

Does the medical profession really know how long it takes for villi to heal ?

What do you think ? Marcia

[ravenwoodglass]

"I am wondering because if going gluten free prior to having immune system tests run can affect the results, why can't we assume that it will affect the villi as well ? Six months seems like a really long time for a body part to heal. They send new mothers back to work after only 6 weeks.

Did they subject the same individuals to multiple biopsies at the same intervals and determined that it takes 6 months to heal ? Or is this just an average ? And how do we know those people were not getting gluten from hidden sources ? We all know how easy this is. "

You bring up some really good questions. I think the amount of time to healing depends a lot on how damaged they were to begin with. There are other things to factor into healing time also that are very individual like conditions that effect healing itself like diabetes or leaky gut or other immune problems. I would imagine that the 6 month figure is an average and that they came up with this figure by doing repeat endoscopies.

"I'm asking because I read on the Nexium package insert that a therapuetic dosage is only needed for 3 - 6 weeks (can't remember which right now). But, I know people who take it or another PPI every day. And my GI told me that I would have to stay on it forever. "

Can't say for you of course but our family goes without a lot of the drugs that we were told we would be on forever. PPI's included.

" This is the way DH works. It goes away when we get the gluten out of our systems. "

From what I understand with DH, which I have had since childhood) is that the deposits can remain under the skin waiting to be reactivated for about 3 years. I got new ones often from just CC for about 2 years and now get them very rarely. The sores also used to take up to 5 months to heal but now if I leave them alone they are gone in a couple weeks.

[Nashville]

I just had my 6-month (actually it was more like 7 month) biopsy on Friday. While the doc doesn't have the tests back yet, he said I still have a ways to go until the villi are completely healed. I started off with complete atrophy, so I guess I had a long way to go. I have maintained an extremely strict diet since diagnoisis in late October, so it looks like I will take about a year to heal.

[marciab]

It makes since that everyone would be starting from a different damage level and that is why the length of time it takes to heal would be different for everyone. But 6 months still seems like a very long time for the body to heal itself once the offending agent has been removed. I'm wondering if they ever do repeat biopsies prior to six months.

And I can see where other medical issues we have going on would influence this too. For example, since I am anemic, my healing time has been slowed. My doctor showed me on my lab work the other day that my red blood cells are not forming properly due to the fact that my iron is too low. Red blood cells carry nutrients, so healing would be compromised.

Or would it ? A fetus gets all the nutrients it needs and the mother gets whatever is left. I wonder if our bodies feeds damaged organs first too ??

" From what I understand with DH, which I have had since childhood) is that the deposits can remain under the skin waiting to be reactivated for about 3 years. I got new ones often from just CC for about 2 years and now get them very rarely. The sores also used to take up to 5 months to heal but now if I leave them alone they are gone in a couple weeks. "

How is it possible for a deposit to stay under the skin for 3 years ? Are these deposits in the same category as toxins ? Why wouldn't a good sweat or detoxifying herbs eliminate them ?

What I believe to be DH (but no doctor ever took the time to biopsy) comes and goes within 2 weeks too. Now that I know what I am looking at, I can monitor these more closely.

Also, I have seen on the board where other food can have a similar affect on the villi because the proteins are similar. Most of us are bothered by more than gluten. So are we unknowlingly being subjected to damage causing proteins ? I have just learned that raw goat cheese was not such a good idea.

I was just using the Nexium as an example of the bodies ability to heal. And this doesn't even take into consideration the role that diet plays in healing. I only took the therapuetic dosage of Nexium and then stopped it. So, if our esophaguses can heal that quickly, why can't villi ?

I am getting confused about allergic reactions versus physical damage done to internal organs. I wonder how long it takes to heal from other internal injuries. If you exclude any surgeries since the body did not create that scenary to begin with.

Pregnancy and childbirth are the most dramatic changes I can think of that a body goes through naturally and all of that only takes 9 months.

I have figured out lately that our bodies have the ability to heal themselves. I just haven't figured out how long it takes and how do we create the optimal environment for our bodies to heal.

Thanks for letting me brain storm this here. Not much of a storm was it ? Marcia

[mouse]

I take Scott's newletter and there was a report in there from Stamford U about the recovery time. It said that it depends on how long the damage was incurring and the age of the Celiac. Some can take up to 5 years or more and some just months. It is different with each person. Like someone else said, you might want to cut out dairy for about 6 months and then slowly reintroduce it.

[marciab]

Nashville,

Thanks for replying. I'm sorry to hear that your doc thinks it will take you 6 more months to heal. But on the upside it appears you are healing. I looked at your profile and I didn't see a birthday. Do you mind telling me how old you are ? I am just assuming age will have an affect on healing time too.

Armetta,

Thanks for replying. I've reached the point where I am questioning the medical profession about everything they know or think they know.

The Stanford study and others can not take into account all the immeasurable human attributes people naturally bring into a study. Cross contamination, etc. We are all having a tough time getting the gluten out of our diets.

My experience with celiac / IBS has forever changed my perception of the medical profession.

The trust is gone.

Marcia

[flagbabyds]

I take Scott's newletter and there was a report in there from Stamford U about the recovery time. It said that it depends on how long the damage was incurring and the age of the Celiac. Some can take up to 5 years or more and some just months. It is different with each person. Like someone else said, you might want to cut out dairy for about 6 months and then slowly reintroduce it.

The stanford study was them seeing if people still absorb everything after tehy have been gluten-free for more than a year, and they found out that some people still only absorb 50-75% even when their villi are completely healed, it just has something to do with celiac and how you absord, exactly why i eat 4,000 calories and can;t gain a opund.

I know this because I helped them find patients to do this, and helped them out, i live at stanford and know Dr. Gray and dr. Khosla on first name basis.

[mouse]

Thanks Molly for doing the correction of my statement so that I don't give people the wrong idea. That is so great that you helped them find people for the study. You are truly to be admired for all that you do. What would we do without the young people on here that still have their brains and memory intact .

[marciab]

Yes, thank you Molly. I am memory challenged also.

"It said that it depends on how long the damage was incurring and the age of the Celiac. Some can take up to 5 years or more and some just months."

I wonder how they determined how long the damage was incurred. I could be looking at 50 years or since I had my gall bladder out 3 years ago. The part about it taking just months is encouraging.

"The stanford study was them seeing if people still absorb everything after tehy have been gluten-free for more than a year, and they found out that some people still only absorb 50-75% even when their villi are completely healed, it just has something to do with celiac and how you absord, exactly why i eat 4,000 calories and can;t gain a opund."

I'm wondering what type of controls they used during the test. Did they have them drink a nutritional supplement and then test them immediately ? I am thinking that is the only way to have control during the test. Since we all burn nutrients in order to function.

And in Molly's case, some much faster than others.

That is interesting that we can have completely healed villi and still not absorb nutrients. The gold standard doesn't appear to be a very good measure of celiac. Obviuosly, villi is not the only part of the digestive system being compromised.

Do you know where can I get a look at that study ? And is it patient friendly ? Or is Scott's info available on line ?

Thanks for the replies. This is really helping me understand the affects of celiac.

Marcia

[mouse]

You might search Scott's information for it. I get the newsletter as I find it easier for my eyes to read. But, it is cheaper to order the online newsletter. I like it, as sometimes there is information that I can cut out for my GP to read.