I Understand That "tailz" Has Been Banned From This Site.

[gfp]

Gina was the one accusing her of that--but I noticed she did not then post the accurate post of what had been misquoted. So I don't know if there was deliberate misqutoing or honest misunderstanding of intent.

Yes but to be fair quoting what someone else said you said is somewhat cyclic...what you really want is the mods to look at your ORIGINAL POSTS in context and let them decide. If you start quoting misquotes.... well, its decending down the same path.

I think it's far more disturbing that Scott deleted MY posts defending tailZ and asking Gina if she was okay. Don't you think there is something wrong with that? I didn't write anything incorrect, illegal, irrational, or nasty. I was also not notified in any way that my posts were deleted.

I think the whole thing is a mess.... but also unless you did read every post carefully (and not read the posts quoted or misquoted) then its real hard to say....

I can't say I did ... I actually stopped posting to that thread or even visiting it after Taliz brought up "The Fall" ....

specifically because of Georg Christoph Lichtenberg's quote.....

Scott however did have access to the whole lot because they are just moved to a side forum and i think if your posts were deleted then its possibly just because they contained quotes from Taliz...

Like I say, I think the whole unpleasantness could have been avoided by quoting the rule #3.

and by having a WRITTEN RULE about not posting explicitly religious views in that thread. I don't mean not asking for prayer etc. I mean saying ALL DISEASES are due to the fall of man. I think it should be obvious that one is not explicit and the other is...

The bottom line is because this was not public noone knows what went on..... I don't however think Scott is likely to have done this lightly; lets face it if I thought he was like that I wouldn't be posting this!

[GFBetsy]

Sorry if this is hijacking, but whether or not all diseases were brought about by the fall of man doesn't matter, because we are all living in a "Post-Fall-of-Man" world . . . so now we just have to deal with it . (Just as we would have to deal with it if there were no such thing as the Fall . . . after all, in the world we live in, there ARE diseases - genetic and otherwise - and we have to cope! That's part of life . . . and we grow and learn from our experiences.)

Obviously I must have missed the other thread, or I wouldn't have been worked up enough to post this response here.

Now back to the orginal discussion . . .

[Lymetoo]

gfp said Personally I'm not ready to exclude Lymes disease as a possible trigger for some celiacs...we don't know enough IMHO... but I am ready to say that it can't possibly cause ALL cases because of what you say and also many celiacs live in Lyme free areas they have never left!

There are no Lyme free areas in my opinion. Some areas have fewer cases than others, but no place is free of disease. Animals travel, birds migrate, pets travel with their humans. Everyone should be alert to it. Many of us who have this long term never had a rash.......keep that in mind!

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Why would Gina need to repost? Her original post was still there, was it not?

I read that post of yours, and my recollection was that by the way you wrote it you were asking her if she was mentally disturbed.

When I looked for Gina's original post to see what tailZ had misquoted, I couldn't find it. I'm not saying that it wasn't there--just that I couldn't find it.

To the best of MY recollection, I posted something like, " Gina, your recent posts are so full of rage, they don't sound like your usual thoughtful and sensitive ones--are you okay?" And then I tried to joke a little by saying that maybe it was the full moon?

I never asked if she was mentally disturbed. I did point out in a later post that Gina had posted quite a bit on another thread here about her experience with being bipolar, and that maybe that might have explained her sudden rage, and that perhaps we could cut her a break.

Asking if someone is okay is a far cry from asking if they are mentally disturbed (which has all sorts of unpleasant connotations), so please don't put words in MY mouth, eKatherine.

[Rachel--24]

Asking if someone is okay is a far cry from asking if they are mentally disturbed

I read this post and did not think you were implying anyone was "mentally disturbed." It didnt come across that way to me anyway.

[gfp]

gfp said Personally I'm not ready to exclude Lymes disease as a possible trigger for some celiacs...we don't know enough IMHO... but I am ready to say that it can't possibly cause ALL cases because of what you say and also many celiacs live in Lyme free areas they have never left!

There are no Lyme free areas in my opinion. Some areas have fewer cases than others, but no place is free of disease. Animals travel, birds migrate, pets travel with their humans. Everyone should be alert to it. Many of us who have this long term never had a rash.......keep that in mind!

There are only three species of ticks able to carry lymes disease and transmit it.

To my knowledge noone who has never left Iceland ever contracted Lymes disease. However iceland has a large celiac population.

I read this post and did not think you were implying anyone was "mentally disturbed." It didnt come across that way to me anyway.

No and I doubt fiddle-faddle meant it that way BUT... if someone is bipolar or paranoid (Im in no way suggesting Gina is) then it could be interpreted that way....

[LKelly8]

To the best of MY recollection, I posted something like, " Gina, your recent posts are so full of rage, they don't sound like your usual thoughtful and sensitive ones--are you okay?" And then I tried to joke a little by saying that maybe it was the full moon?

I never asked if she was mentally disturbed. I did point out in a later post that Gina had posted quite a bit on another thread here about her experience with being bipolar, and that maybe that might have explained her sudden rage, and that perhaps we could cut her a break.

Asking if someone is okay is a far cry from asking if they are mentally disturbed (which has all sorts of unpleasant connotations), so please don't put words in MY mouth, eKatherine.

I didn't read the original thread so I'm not getting the full picture but from these quotes - lines you yourself culled - I gotta tell ya, this is seriously offensive stuff . It looks like you were snidely suggesting that her opinions were invalid because she had a mental illness. Now I know you wouldn't deliberately try to stigmatize someone just to win an argument. There must be alot missing in translation here!

Open Original Shared Link

[gfp]

I didn't read the original thread so I'm not getting the full picture but from these quotes - lines you yourself culled - I gotta tell ya, this is seriously offensive stuff . It looks like you were snidely suggesting that her opinions were invalid because she had a mental illness. Now I know you wouldn't deliberately try to stigmatize someone just to win an argument. There must be alot missing in translation here!

Open Original Shared Link

What is tolerance? -- it is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly -- that is the first law of nature.

Voltaire

One can read into that whatever ones wishes and by compounding what someone said over several seperate posts compound it further! Knowing fiddle-faddle as I do I find it hard to believe she meant it like that...

Several times I have been accused of being too tough or last time it was "HARSH".by a third party.. and then in most cases the poster has actually thanked me. This is always a danger of communicating without facial expression and in economy of words on a board like this.

I don't agree with fiddle-faddle's interpretation of Gina BUT I do not accept she would deliberatly say anything offensive but people can take offense at the slightest thing....

Yesterday I was buying groceries and the Arab guy spotted my accent and told me the price in English so I joked back and asked "How much? 22 Euros " in Arabic.... and he got all offended....

Meanwhile elsewhere some guys are asked to get off a plane on the basis of them speaking Arabic?

Prejudices are what fools use for reason.

and no I don't mean your a fool, Im just in the mood to quote Voltaire!

[debmidge]

gfp, what accent? I've never noticed one....

[Fiddle-Faddle]

I didn't read the original thread so I'm not getting the full picture but from these quotes - lines you yourself culled - I gotta tell ya, this is seriously offensive stuff . It looks like you were snidely suggesting that her opinions were invalid because she had a mental illness. Now I know you wouldn't deliberately try to stigmatize someone just to win an argument. There must be alot missing in translation here!

Open Original Shared Link

Since you didn't get to read the original posts, you missed that Gina full-out attacked tailZ, and that there was a rage and viciousness to her posts that shocked a lot of us (to be fair, not everyone was shocked--eKatherine completely agreed with Gina, but there were many of us who were wondering why Gina was over-reacting so). She also complained to Scott, and I believe it was her complaints about tailZ (who in my opinion did nothing wrong) that got tailZ kicked off the board.

I was not looking to explain her point of view, but the viciousness and rage of her posts. Sudden rages are a common behavior of bipolar. I actually was suggesting that as an excuse to cut her a break (which you yourself highlighted). To cut someone a break means to give them the benefit of the doubt.

As gfp said, you put 2 things together that I said on different posts, added them up to equal something that wasn't even close to my intent, let alone what the unadorned words meant. I asked her if she was okay; I pointed out the difference between her recent posts and her earlier ones, I tried to joke about it to give her an easy "out ("Yeah, sorry, must be the full moon!"), and in a later discussion, I mentioned her bipolarity also as a way to give her an easy out ("sorry, I went off my meds" or "I got glutened and I wasn't myself,") and to avoid people attacking her. Although I thought that Gina was totally in the wrong, I did say that I didn't think either tailZ or Gina should be banned.

You totally misinterpreted my words (and even rereading them, I don't think there is THAT much room for misinterpretation. You added ideas and intent that were not there. Yes, I agree, much must have been lost in translation.

[eKatherine]

Since you didn't get to read the original posts, you missed that Gina full-out attacked tailZ, and that there was a rage and viciousness to her posts that shocked a lot of us (to be fair, not everyone was shocked--eKatherine completely agreed with Gina, but there were many of us who were wondering why Gina was over-reacting so). She also complained to Scott, and I believe it was her complaints about tailZ (who in my opinion did nothing wrong) that got tailZ kicked off the board.

I saw her post as a breath of rationality. I will continue to warn people when they are about to do something risky based on what they see as ideas that are superior because they are not contaminated by science.

[Matilda]

..

[Lymetoo]

To my knowledge noone who has never left Iceland ever contracted Lymes disease. However iceland has a large celiac population.

Sorry, I was referring to the United States, though Lyme is found all around the world. I think Iceland would have VERY little of it!!

There are only three species of ticks able to carry lymes disease and transmit it.

and PS>....WHICH THREE species of ticks would that be?????

[Lisa]

Enough is enough, I thing the avenue is exhausted. Pointes were made, accepted or rejected.

But the bottom line here is that it is time to close this tread. There are newbies out there and they need our help. If you are spending time on a "go no where subject", you are not available to help others. All of you, remember where you began here on this site. I did not know where to turn and I expect that so many of you did not.

Chill your buns and go forth and help the ones in need. Be done with this mess.

[mouse]

Right on Lisa.

[Matilda]

..

[Matilda]

..

[Lisa]

If I'd read Penguin's post about leaving previously, I'd have kept my big gob shut.

???? Lisa

[Fiddle-Faddle]

My response was prompted by Gena's post in the other, on-going thread, and I thought this was a better place to post it. The topic is done and finished with when no one feels the need to respond any more. I completely agree about the need not to confuse people, but there's been lots of confusing people going on.

Count me in as confused--I didn't know there was another on-going thread dealing with this.

[Lisa]

Count me in as confused--I didn't know there was another on-going thread dealing with this.

Count me in on check'in out of this one. Whew!

Lisa

[Guest Robbin]

Let this thing die already... beating a dead horse with talking about it. I hope all involved get well, are happy, find answers, and take time to smell the flowers. And all of the rest of us --the same

[gfp]

Sorry, I was referring to the United States, though Lyme is found all around the world. I think Iceland would have VERY little of it!!

and PS>....WHICH THREE species of ticks would that be?????

Lymetoo:

That's really all I'm trying to say is that I can't dismiss Lymes leading to celiac but since celiac's exists in places with no Lymes (and Iceland is possibly specially high in celiacs) that it cannot be the sole cause of celiacs.

But the bottom line here is that it is time to close this tread. There are newbies out there and they need our help. If you are spending time on a "go no where subject", you are not available to help others. All of you, remember where you began here on this site. I did not know where to turn and I expect that so many of you did not.

Chill your buns and go forth and help the ones in need. Be done with this mess.

Agreed

[Scott Adams]

Hello Everyone,

I think Ursula has clearly explained why Tailz (AKA Breezy) was banned--and it wasn't because of her theory that lyme disease causes celiac disease. The part that Ursula left out was that she was also PM'img people with her theory--and was doing this even if someone had not made a single post regarding lyme disease. In her PM's she was pushing her theory to people who didn't even ask for it and were totally uninterested in it. Several people complained about this to me. Additionally, as Ursula explained in great detail, she was responding to nearly all threads, no matter how unrelated they were (for example one person was just seeking a doctor in a certain city), with her theory on lyme disease--again, these people didn't ask for this info but Tailz became obsessed with giving it to them anyway. She was warned twice to stop using the board to publicize her unscientific theories to EVERYONE here, but she ignored the warnings and simply created a new personality and continued doing exactly the same thing. Ultimately we made the decision to ban her and it was the right decision.

I have no problem with members creating a topic called "Does Lyme Disease Cause Celiac Disease"? and creating a discussion about it. No problem. I do, however, have a big problem with someone who goes into nearly every current, unrelated topic on this board to try to spread such a theory (not to mention--abuse the PM feature to do this as well).

The board isn't meant to be used for such purposes--no matter what the theory is. Remember, if someone is making an extraodinary claim that goes against mainstream science it is up to them to provide the scientific evidence for it--it isn't up to everyone else to disprove the claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. She provided no scientific studies or evidence to back her claim, other than her explanation that her doctor thought lyme disease causes celiac disease--but again, that wasn't why she was banned.

Take care,

Scott

[Judyin Philly]

I do, however, have a big problem with someone who goes into nearly every current, unrelated topic on this board to try to spread such a theory (not to mention--abuse the PM feature to do this as well).

Take care,

Scott

I so agree with this 'above botton line'. Based on this alone, I think you and the moderators did the right thing.

Judy in Philly

[FaithInScienceToo]

I see "Fiddle-Faddle" continues to make things up about me - telling others on here I was 'vicious with Tailz' and that I am bi-polar (a total fabrication on her part)...

...perhaps Scott would like to ban Fiddle-Faddle now for that...I believe he should - and, I should PM him at this point now, but won't, unless Fiddle-Faddle continues HER vicious assualt on ME -

About Tailz...

Tailz is gone, along with her proselytizing about God's will...and her COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL thoughts that Lymme disease was messing up genetic studies about Celiac Disease-

THANK GOD Scott banned her - her thoughts couldn't have been much more irrational, and were VERY dangerous to those who come here seeking rational emotional support and REAL Science...

... as soon as I pointed out some of her nasty tricks (in a rational, straight-forward way - NOT vicious), she began to have a melt-down...it was sad to see, but perhaps she needed 'to hit bottom' to begin to lose her obsession and start to deal with her health in a rational fashion. She was so convinced, and wanting to convince everyone else, that her thoughts were the only ones that had any truth to them - it was sad, and SHE became abusive - just like an alcoholic who is confronted...she was/is still? addicted to her beliefs...which were not supported in the real/rational world...if you read her bio info, she states that she believes Lymme is passed down from generation to generation and causes Celiac Disease...and that God made all of us perfect - that environment is responsible for everything...

I do hope that she finds a way to break free of her obsession with those thoughts and her desires to 'make it her mission' (as she put it) to convinve the world of it -

Anyway - I am copying and pasting below my last post on that lovely 'coping with' thread that Tailz posted in order to promote her Anti-Science stuff about colloidal silver:

Hope it clarifies a few things for those who didn't ever read that thread, but have been reading Fiddle-Faddles posts since then -

Again, it's SO sad to see people like Tailz, and NOW Fiddle-Faddle, slandering and putting down those of us on here who try to keep this place rational -

---------

Two things...just for the record:

1) I am not on any meds for bi-polar - not sure who wrote that, as no time to check - I do, however, take meds for minor depression/anxiety and now also for ADHD - if anyone has a problem with that, you've got problems...

2) Also, below is the full interaction between myself and Scott - please note that I did not address only 'the proselitying' (sp? - sorry, also have dyslexia and a poor memory - doesn't make me inept in my assessment of Tailz, though - what she did on here, was pretty easy to see, if you ask me...anyway...)...

Tailz' decisions to write untrue things about those who weren't giving her the replies she wanted to hear was another thing I addressed to Scott - her posts were akin to that bit above about me being on meds for bipolar - no such post appears anywhere by me on this forum - because I am not bi-polar - however, my older sister and paternal aunt are...does that also make me 'irrational?'....OK...back to Tailz - she attacked other members on here who disagreed with her, in both subtle, and not-so-subtle fashions, - not certain if that's the main reason (?) why her posts got nixed, appropriately by Scott - please note, though, that I never asked him to delete anything.

Anyway - I didn't, at first, think it necessary to get into the full problem I had with Tailz' posts in this thread, but since some members seem to think I was only '100%pro-Science and somehow anti-religion' .....which I obviously was not...nor did I ever say anything along those lines...I think it best, at this point, to just copy and paste exactly what I wrote to Scott and exactly what he said in reply - please note that my interpretations of Tailz' posts were apparently supported 'across the board' by Admin in his brief and direct reply of "I agree, I warned her again.' AND - apparently SOMEONE ELSE besides myself also complained about her posts...hence the 'again' in there...

...and also note, please... Admin, removed tailz' posts - I did not request that in my PM to him - he chose to do so - and I respect him FULLY for having done so-

OK...well...that's it for this trip into cyber-support...can't read all posts, as have to do chores, etc - I just saw the untrue new thing about me being on meds for bipolar, and knew someone was fishing for a reply from me, so there you have it-

OK...still hoping to see religion posts in the chat room....and no more untrue posts about members by other members... I see that hasn't occurred, though... but, hope springs eternal...

Gina