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cathzozo

My Bread Always Falls...

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Hello! My bread almost always falls. Sometimes it falls a lot, sometimes just a little. I've tried cooking it longer, thinking maybe I was underbaking. That doesn't seem to be the problem. I noticed in one of Bette Hagman's books that she says not all xanthan gum is the same and sometimes you might need to add more. I have Bob's Red Mill, I think (although I no longer have the original packaging). Does anyone else have to add extra xanthan gum? If so, how much should I add? Or is there something else that is going wrong? Just to clarify - everything else I've been baking comes out at least passable, but it's only the yeast breads that I'm having trouble with. They rise high, but they never stay there.

Thanks,

Catherine


Catherine

Gluten Free Since 4/1/06 and feeling much nicer!

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I suggest that you don't let it raise so much before you put it in the oven. It is gluten that allows normal bread to maintain it's structure when full of air. Since gluten-free flours (redundantly) don't have gluten, we use xanthan gum instead. It does help things stick together, but it's not quite the same as gluten. I've found that if I only let my loaves rise for 20 minutes, they don't fall nearly as much. I know that most recipes say to "let it rise until double". Don't. It will continue to rise in the oven, and it's much less likely to fall when it comes out.

Also, be sure that you don't let it stand in the pans for a long time after you take it out. If you let it sit too long, the condensation makes the sides of the bread soggy, and then they tend to collapse (taking the rest of the loaf along with them). If you let it sit for about 5 minutes, then turn the loaf upside down in the pan for 5 minutes, then remove it from the pan entirely, the crust will get a little softer, but won't be soft enough to collapse completely.

Hope this helps!

Betsy

Edited to add: I've found that even xanthan gum from the same company can be different strengths. I suggest that when you get a new bag of xanthan gum, you make something that you can easily judge the strength of the xanthan gum by, like pancakes. If your recipe calls for 1/2 tsp. xanthan gum and you add 1/2 tsp. and the batter clumps up like cookie dough (or just gets really thick :)), you know that (for this bag of xanthan gum) you'll have to use less than you "normally" do. Good luck!

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I suggest that you don't let it raise so much before you put it in the oven. It is gluten that allows normal bread to maintain it's structure when full of air. Since gluten-free flours (redundantly) don't have gluten, we use xanthan gum instead. It does help things stick together, but it's not quite the same as gluten. I've found that if I only let my loaves rise for 20 minutes, they don't fall nearly as much. I know that most recipes say to "let it rise until double". Don't. It will continue to rise in the oven, and it's much less likely to fall when it comes out.

Also, be sure that you don't let it stand in the pans for a long time after you take it out. If you let it sit too long, the condensation makes the sides of the bread soggy, and then they tend to collapse (taking the rest of the loaf along with them). If you let it sit for about 5 minutes, then turn the loaf upside down in the pan for 5 minutes, then remove it from the pan entirely, the crust will get a little softer, but won't be soft enough to collapse completely.

Hope this helps!

Betsy

Edited to add: I've found that even xanthan gum from the same company can be different strengths. I suggest that when you get a new bag of xanthan gum, you make something that you can easily judge the strength of the xanthan gum by, like pancakes. If your recipe calls for 1/2 tsp. xanthan gum and you add 1/2 tsp. and the batter clumps up like cookie dough (or just gets really thick :)), you know that (for this bag of xanthan gum) you'll have to use less than you "normally" do. Good luck!

Betsy - Thanks! I'm going to try to up the xanthan gum a little, but I will also not let it rise for the full time before sticking it in the oven. I feel like maybe I have strong yeast and weak xanthan gum. But I'm still working my way through the first container of each since beginning gluten-free baking, so I don't have much to compare with yet.

Also, I usually remove my bread from the pan onto a rack almost immediately. Am I supposed to be waiting before removing it from the pan?

Catherine


Catherine

Gluten Free Since 4/1/06 and feeling much nicer!

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Betsy - Thanks! I'm going to try to up the xanthan gum a little, but I will also not let it rise for the full time before sticking it in the oven. I feel like maybe I have strong yeast and weak xanthan gum. But I'm still working my way through the first container of each since beginning gluten-free baking, so I don't have much to compare with yet.

Also, I usually remove my bread from the pan onto a rack almost immediately. Am I supposed to be waiting before removing it from the pan?

Catherine

I only wait a little bit in order to make the crust a little softer. It will be fine if you take it out right away.

By the way, another thing that might help is to check out Bette Hagman's Gluten Free Gourmet Bakes Bread book. You can look to see about how much xanthan gum per cup of flour she uses for her bread recipes. I know that (at least in the yeast recipe I use) the xanthan gum amount is much higher than it is for cookies or quick breads - close to 1 tsp. per cup.

Good luck! :)

Betsy

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I have found that if I use even a couple of tablespoons more water than I should my bread sinks in the center when it's done.


Husband has Celiac Disease and

Husband misdiagnosed for 27 yrs -

The misdiagnosis was: IBS or colitis

Mis-diagnosed from 1977 to 2003 by various gastros including one of the largest,

most prestigious medical groups in northern NJ which constantly advertises themselves as

being the "best." This GI told him it was "all in his head."

Serious Depressive state ensued

Finally Diagnosed with celiac disease in 2003

Other food sensitivities: almost all fruits, vegetables, spices, eggs, nuts, yeast, fried foods, roughage, soy.

Needs to gain back at least 25 lbs. of the 40 lbs pounds he lost - lost a great amout of body fat and muscle

Developed neuropathy in 2005

Now has lymphadema 2006It is my opinion that his subsequent disorders could have been avoided had he been diagnosed sooner by any of the dozen or so doctors he saw between 1977 to 2003

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Last night I realized something else that may help. I cooked some bread in someone else's oven, and I took it out after the normal baking time. The top was getting quite dark, so I figured it was done. As soon as I put it on the counter, the whole thing just collapsed. When I cut it , the bottom portion of the bread was solid, and looked damp (it was a darker color than the bread on the top). The reason that it looked like that is because it wasn't cooked all the way. The bottom of the loaf hadn't cooked completely, so it just collapsed when I took it out of the oven. If this is what your bread is looking like when you cut it open, here are some suggestions:

Your oven temperature may be off, so it might help to turn the temperature dial up 25 degrees or so.

OR

You may need to preheat your oven a little bit longer before you put the bread in the oven. (I think that was my problem last night . . . I knew the oven cooked cold, so I had it cranked up 75 degrees hotter than my recipe called for, but I could tell when I put the bread in that the oven really wasn't quite up to temperature yet. I put it in anyway, because I was demonstrating gluten-free cooking to 35 people and didn't want to get behind . . . but I was sorry when my bread turned out so badly! Fortunately I was turning it into garlic bread, so the heavyness of the bread was (at least partially) offset by the deliciousness of the topping! :lol:)

OR

You might try putting your bread on a lower rack in your oven. When normal (non-convection) ovens are set to "Bake", only the bottom element turns on to heat the oven (just as "Broil" only turns on the top element). So if your bread isn't cooking as quickly as it should, it might help to move it a little bit closer to the heat source.

Hope this information is helpful!

Betsy

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Hey Catherine--you aren't the only one with this frustrating problem! Check out this thread I started a while back on the same topic...there are some suggestions here that might help you: http://www.glutenfreeforum.com/index.php?s...c=13280&hl=


~~~~~~~

Jen

Indianapolis, IN

gluten-free since Feb 2005

dairy-free

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Another thing you can try is dissolving 1/2 to 1 tsp of unflavored gelatin in the liquid. This helps with the texture-making it more "gluten like".

Orgran also recently came out with a product they call "Gluten Free Gluten Replacer". They claim "is a revolutionary new development that will give your starch and other gluten free flours of your choice workability and versatility. GfG Substitute will mimic the physical protein found in wheat in a way to allow the forming of dough or batter with a similar consistency and characteristics to wheat based ingredients." I have not yet had an opportunity to try it-but it sounds promising!

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Thanks for all the tips everyone. After another not-so-great loaf of fallen bread, I decided that maybe I had too much liquid. My mother was talking about how she has to usually put a little extra because her climate is SO dry. We are SO muggy here, so I think that could make a difference.

I also bought, but haven't used for bread yet, an oven thermometer. I figure that should help. And I'm going to try to find that Gluten-Free Gluten Replacer. That sounds like a good idea!

Catherine


Catherine

Gluten Free Since 4/1/06 and feeling much nicer!

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Here's the recipe I always use . . . maybe you'll have a bit better luck with a new recipe:

True Yeast Bread/Pizza Crust - Adapted from Bette Hagman's Gluten Free Gourmet

3 C. gluten-free flour mix

1/4 c. sugar

3 1/2 tsp. Xanthan gum

1 1/2 tsp. Salt

1 3/4 c. lukewarm water

1/4 c. oil

1 tsp. Rice vinegar

3 eggs

1 1/2 Tbs. yeast

Mix flour mix, sugar, xanthan gum, and salt in the bowl of a stand mixer. Pour yeast on top, but don't mix it in. Combine warm water, oil, and vinegar. Pour liquids on top of yeast. Let sit for 5 minutes. Mix on low until blended. Add the eggs. Turn mixer on high for 5 minutes. Turn oven to 375 degrees.

For Bread: Spray pans (2 loaf pans or 12 - 14 English muffin rings) well with Pam. Spoon into pans (or English Muffin rings), and let rise on oven as it heats (about 20 minutes). Bake loaf pans for 35 minutes minutes. Bake muffin rings about 20 minutes.

For Pizza: Spray 2 13x18 jelly roll pans with Pam. Place half of the dough on each pan. Spray the top of the dough with Pam, and press the dough flat in the pan. Let raise 10-20 minutes. Bake about 10 minutes (til top is golden brown). Remove from oven. Top with sauce, cheese, and toppings. Return to oven and bake until cheese is melted - about 15 minutes. (For thicker crusts, use smaller pans.)

Hope it works for you!

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Hello! My bread almost always falls. Sometimes it falls a lot, sometimes just a little. I've tried cooking it longer, thinking maybe I was underbaking. That doesn't seem to be the problem. I noticed in one of Bette Hagman's books that she says not all xanthan gum is the same and sometimes you might need to add more. I have Bob's Red Mill, I think (although I no longer have the original packaging). Does anyone else have to add extra xanthan gum? If so, how much should I add? Or is there something else that is going wrong? Just to clarify - everything else I've been baking comes out at least passable, but it's only the yeast breads that I'm having trouble with. They rise high, but they never stay there.

Thanks,

Catherine

Another suggestion for baking the bread is to cover loosely with foil when it starts to brown. I just baked a loaf of bread yesterday and the recipe said to do this after ten minutes. I waited almost 20 and the top was already quite brown, but still okay. The loaf still had almost 40 minutes of baking and it came out wonderful.

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I haven't yet tried bread, but I usually add a tsp or two of powdered egg whites to baked goods, just for some extra protein structure. I mix it in with the flours.


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It's a delicate balance between the xanthan gum and the moisture content. Generally, more xanthan gum requires more liquid. Otherwise the dough will be tough and not rise much.


Nothing

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OK! I finally succeeded. I think that I just had my batter too wet. Doesn't help that I live in muggy-land, either. So, I made the Potato Bread from Hagman's GFG Cooks Comfort Food. I intentionally shorted the water, and then as we were mixing it, we looked at the pictures on Carol Fenster's webpage, and tried to imitate her "graceful globs." I also shortened the rising time a little, didn't let it get over the edge, and popped it in the oven. Oh - and I also used mini pans and muffin tins for rolls. Until I am feeling VERY confident, no more yeast bread in the big loaf pans! Thanks everyone for all the ideas...


Catherine

Gluten Free Since 4/1/06 and feeling much nicer!

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Yep, collapsing bread is often due to too much water. Glad you got it worked out! :)


Tiffany aka "Have I Mentioned Chocolate Lately?"

Inconclusive Blood Tests, Positive Dietary Results, No Endoscopy

G.F. - September 2003; C.F. - July 2004

Hiker, Yoga Teacher, Engineer, Painter, Be-er of Me

Bellevue, WA

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OK! I finally succeeded. I think that I just had my batter too wet. Doesn't help that I live in muggy-land, either. So, I made the Potato Bread from Hagman's GFG Cooks Comfort Food. I intentionally shorted the water, and then as we were mixing it, we looked at the pictures on Carol Fenster's webpage, and tried to imitate her "graceful globs." I also shortened the rising time a little, didn't let it get over the edge, and popped it in the oven. Oh - and I also used mini pans and muffin tins for rolls. Until I am feeling VERY confident, no more yeast bread in the big loaf pans! Thanks everyone for all the ideas...

Congratulations! One more idea: cut it as soon as it's cool, then refrigerate/freeze what you're not going to eat right now. Then reheat a slice or two in the microwave when you want bread (20 or 30 seconds - until it's hot). That will help keep it from crumbling later.

Enjoy your bread!

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