Oxalates And Nightshades

[Flor]

Hi you all!

I'm about four weeks on the diet now and am starting to lose my resolve too. I had one mini reeses peanut butter cup, I went to the movies and ate popcorn. The popcorn actually seemed to help move things through.

I had a week or so with no shin burning or other "dumping" symptoms, but yesterday and today the shin burning is back mildly and my joints are more sore. Also more gas. Maybe I am being punished for pushing the boundaries.

Also, I hadn't been eating beef at all and then I had some the last few nights. Is it lectins in beef that cause the inflammation?

So, I need to get back to the strict diet again.

I was reading stuff about aloe vera juice over on the "trying low oxalate diet" yahoo group. Have any of you tried it? Aloe vera is apparently low oxalate and some folks have found it helpful for gut healing.

A couple other questions:

Are any of you able to tolerate corn? I've been staying away from it, but it's hard to only eat white rice all day, and then feel like I really shouldn't be eating white rice at all.

I need to understand more about the role of sugar in oxalate formation. It seems to be implicated. I think my sugar consumption has increased since going LOD and that I'm having some more yeast symptoms. I keep jumping from one problem to another!

Finally, does anyone know anything about Low Dose Naltrexone? www.lowdosenaltrexone.org -- seems to be the cutting edge of auto-immune disorder treatments. Is there an area on this site where people are trying it?

Hope you all are doing well today!

Florence

[jerseyangel]

Hi Florence,

I've been kinda wondering how everyone's doing.

I have incorporated some corn in the form of cornstarch and homemade popcorn made with light olive oil and sea salt. I was totally intolerant to corn, and was pleasantly surprised that I can now tolerate it. I don't eat it every day, but it's nice for some variety. The fiber does help move things along--but in a good way. I really hear you about the rice!

I've thought about the aloe juice--even before the LOD. There are old threads on the subject here. I'm just afraid to try anything much that's supplimental, as they almost always disagree with me. It's a small miracle that I tolerate the calcium.

I haven't heard anything about the Naltrexone--but it sounds interesting and I'm going to see what I can find out about it.

Beef--I don't know....I tolerate beef--all meats, really. I didn't think that meats contained lectins.

[Judyin Philly]

SO GLAD PEOPLE ARE UPDATING.............I LOVE TO HEAR FROM OTHERS

I HAD NO NEWS TO REPORT ..........TODAY I DO.

FLORENCE DON'T HAVE ANY INSIGHT FOR YOU FROM YOUR POST. SO SORRY BUT I'LL BE WATCHING.

PATTI----HAPPY PROGRESS WITH THE CORN.....WOW.......YOUR HEALING SO WELL...........

IT'S BEEN 8 DRY NITES AND THIS AM HAD TO RUSH TO BATHROOM FOR 'BM' BUT NOT 'D'

I KNOW WHAT IT WAS.

LAST NITE TRIED SPAGHETTI SAUCE I MADE WITH GOOD INGRED ...LOTS OF MUSHROOMS (THINK OK) DON'T USUALLY EAT BUT ADDED BULK...SOME GARLIC ONION LITTLE CELERY...BUT IN ALL FROM WHAT I ATE IT WAS THE 1 CUP OF LOW OXALATE TOTAL.

BUT.................I KNOW IT WAS THE 1" CUBE OF THE BROWNIE FROM HEALTH FOOD STORE..NEW PRODUCT....IT WAS DELICIOUS.....BUT DIDN'T AGREE WITH ME..............AND THE BLACK FLAKES AGAIN.........BUT IT WAS VERY SOFTLY FORMED 'BM' KINDA LIKE A PLOP...GOD WHAT A POST.

I PRAY IT DOESN'T END UP IN GOGGLE.

ALSO AFTER THE CLEAN UP FEEL WONDERFUL.............VERY FLUID AND FLEXIABLE AND YEST WAS SO TIRED AND STIFF BUT DID ALOT OF PHYSICAL WORK OUTSIDE .............

BUT................LAST NITE THE SORENESS AND REDNESS FROM THE LYMPH LEG STARTED TO POP UP.......AT THE SCAR SITE IN THE THIGH AREA WHERE WHERE IT ALWAYS COMES --AFTER DINNER SO...............

PT FOR LYMPH THOUGHT A FOOD CONNECTION AND NOW I AGREE.

REDNESS IS ALMOST GONE TODAY...........PUT THE 'JASON TEA TREE' LOTION ON IT FROM CHIRO AND PUT THE NITE WRAP ON LEG AND ELEVATED IT.

SO FOR ME...........THINKING..............

FOOD + LYMPH FLUID RETENTION + BEING ON FEET + NOT WEARING STOCKING DAILY (DID YEST THOUGH) IS A KEY FOR ME..................

i'M ADDING THIS TO MY LOCKED D/S POST OF SYMPTOMS LIKE ROBBIN DID..........I CAN'T KEEP IT ALL STRAIGHT...........WHEN THINGS POP UP...............BUT ALL HAS BEEN GOING WELL.

I JUST THINK I HAD A DUMPING...OR DUMPING DO TO WHAT I ATE?

THOUGHT 'DUMPING' WHAT A RESULT OF BEING 'CLEAN' ON LOD? RIGHT...BUT CAN YOU 'DUMP' IF DIET ISN'T CLEAN??????????????????????????

THAT'S MY QUESTION TODAY.

JUDY

[Mtndog]

Aye- I have 21 pages to read but am VERY interested in this. As some of you know, I have Lyme but I do think what I eat has an effect on the intensity of the pain. I am still legume free (including soy) but now basically just eat gluten-free and have added dairy back in.

As far as my GI tract goes, I read the first four pages and several of you mentioned having D and the calcium citrate helpig with that. I have the OPPOSITE problem....so I take magnesium which helps with that and is also a natural muscle relaxer (good for my Lymey muscles). Also, my doc wants me taking milk Thistle because of the boatload of drugs I'm on. HMMMM.....

I'll try to catch up and post again (I hope this isn't one of those "Don't Go back" )

Thanks so much patti for starting this thread!!!!

[Janeti]

catesfolly,

uhoh....just to let you know, the reeses mini peanut butter cups have gluten in it. I had 2 of them and was sick for days...I called Hersheys and they said the small ones aren't gluten-free.

[jerseyangel]

Wow Judy--that's great about 8 dry nights! I wouldn't be surprised if it was the brownie that set your system off a little. Baked goods--especially ready made ones can have different flours and other ingredients than we would use at home. I know that different brands or types of exactly the same foods can affect me differently. I tend to find things that work for me and stick to them--kind of boring, I know, but I get tired of not knowing how I'm going to feel.

Bev!!! Welcome I think this is something definately worth looking into for you.

[jerseyangel]

catesfolly,

uhoh....just to let you know, the reeses mini peanut butter cups have gluten in it. I had 2 of them and was sick for days...I called Hersheys and they said the small ones aren't gluten-free.

Yes--several of Hershey's mini products have gluten. I don't do well with any of their things, personally. I don't know if it's CC or what.

[dlp252]

Florence, I've lost my resolve as well. Well, truthfully, not sure I had it completely anyway. Whatever I need to click in my brain to do this just hasn't clicked yet.

Hi Bev! I joined on page 6, so didn't quite have as much to go back on...you CAN go back here, lol.

[Judyin Philly]

DEAR BEV

WELCOME

I'M SO GLAD YOUR HERE AND PRAY THIS WILL HELP YOU ALSO.

ALWAYS LOVE TO HEAR HOW YOUR DOING.

LOVE YOU SWEETIE.

JUDY

[Flor]

Oh cwap about the reeses peanut butter cups. They're SO SMALL! And I only had ONE when I really wanted ONE HUNDRED. Oh well.

I'm tired of what's her name's (Jennie's?) macaroons.

Have any of you found your sugar intake increase with LOD? A lot of the non-sweet food I used to eat (nuts, grains, spinach, etc) are off-limits now and the stuff that's replaced it is sweeter. I feel more yeasty somehow.

I feel somewhere inside of me I need to stop sweet things altogether -- sugar added, honey, fruit. But my god, how to stop EVERYTHING? I'm sure fasting would be the cure! Any folks on here do fasting as a way to let the gut rest?

[jerseyangel]

Florence--

Oh yes! I'm eating more sugar now and for the same reasons as you.

I'm not feeling yeasty, but I am gaining weight. The weight I lost when I was sick with Celiac came back on months ago, and now it's very unwanted extra weight.

I'm so sick of giving things up that I was thinking that's why I'm eating more comfort foods and deserts. It's odd, because I feel good, my D (my biggest problem) is gone but I know that I still should be eating healthier or I wouldn't be gaining.

I also may have a hormonal issue--hysterectomy in January/no HRT. I will not take hormones, so I need to get a grip on this.

I'm in a stressful situation right now with the upcoming move, so that's not helping. I'm escaping to either the computer or the kitchen

[Flor]

Hi you all. Me again.

I posted a note over at the trying low oxalate diet yahoo group just saying that I'd seen improvement in the last month on this diet and asking some questions about symptoms I was having (more on that below).

Susan who moderates the site said she hoped the rest of us on this thread would post over there with all our experiences. Susan's been going to celiac conferences and trying to bridge these two worlds (autism and celiac) and she said it seemed to her that this oxalate information hadn't gotten over to the celiac community yet. I think she's a real ally and good source of info for us.

Anyway, if you get a chance, would you drop a note over there with a little information about your specific experiences on LOD?

There are parents over there who do the LOD with their kids and who have a wealth of information about supplements, recipes, etc.

One mom over there doing LOD said they also follow Dr. Semon's yeast-free diet and that going LOD also caused them to increase sugar intake. I know now my yeast problems have increased and that I have to deal with that next. Have any of you done Nystatin? Who else here has yeast problems and what do you do for it?

Side note on this: Dr. Semon apparently discourages a lot of meat eating because the feed for animals is often aspergillus-contaminated...which contributes to yeast problems. Rachel -- maybe you know more about this?

I have a new oxalate dumping symptom -- vulvar pain! I had no idea what it was and have never had it before. I went to VP Foundation website which has more useful LOD info if you all haven't been over there. Anyway, Susan confirmed it's likely a dumping symptom.

It does seem that the same symptoms that were making us sick eating high oxalates can also be dumping symptoms simply because not eating oxalates forces the oxalates that have built up in our cells to come out and cause trouble just like they did when we were eating them. My experience has been though that the dumping symptoms are less GI whereas the eating oxalate symptoms were more GI -- which makes sense given that oxalate dumping means it's coming out of cells elsewhere in the body rather than coming in through the GI tract.

[Judyin Philly]

Hi you all. Me again.

Anyway, if you get a chance, would you drop a note over there with a little information about your specific experiences on LOD?

I GOT AN ACCOUNT AND POSTED BUT NOW CAN'T GET BACK IN TO POST. COUNTING ON YOU AT THIS POINT TO SHARE WITH US TILL I CAN FIGURE IT OUT.

There are parents over there who do the LOD with their kids and who have a wealth of information about supplements, recipes, etc.

SO TRUE WHEN I WAS THERE

I have a new oxalate dumping symptom -- vulvar pain! I had no idea what it was and have never had it before. I went to VP Foundation website which has more useful LOD info if you all haven't been over there. Anyway, Susan confirmed it's likely a dumping symptom.

GOT THE BOOKBOOK BY THEM..........INFO ON THE V ISSUE.........GO TOO TALLABERRY. TIFFANY..SHE CAN HELP YOU WITH THIS. NOT SURE THE DIET HELPED HER FROM WHAT SHE SAID BUT SHE'S AN EXPERT ON THIS PROBLEM

It does seem that the same symptoms that were making us sick eating high oxalates can also be dumping symptoms simply because not eating oxalates forces the oxalates that have built up in our cells to come out and cause trouble just like they did when we were eating them. My experience has been though that the dumping symptoms are less GI whereas the eating oxalate symptoms were more GI -- which makes sense given that oxalate dumping means it's coming out of cells elsewhere in the body rather than coming in through the GI tract.

SUCH A GOOD SUMMARY IMO

HUGS AND THANKS FOR THE UPDATE ALWAYS...HELPFUL FLORENCE

[bluejeangirl]

One mom over there doing LOD said they also follow Dr. Semon's yeast-free diet and that going LOD also caused them to increase sugar intake. I know now my yeast problems have increased and that I have to deal with that next. Have any of you done Nystatin? Who else here has yeast problems and what do you do for it?

Side note on this: Dr. Semon apparently discourages a lot of meat eating because the feed for animals is often aspergillus-contaminated...which contributes to yeast problems. Rachel -- maybe you know more about this?

I have a new oxalate dumping symptom -- vulvar pain! I had no idea what it was and have never had it before. I went to VP Foundation website which has more useful LOD info if you all haven't been over there. Anyway, Susan confirmed it's likely a dumping symptom.

It does seem that the same symptoms that were making us sick eating high oxalates can also be dumping symptoms simply because not eating oxalates forces the oxalates that have built up in our cells to come out and cause trouble just like they did when we were eating them. My experience has been though that the dumping symptoms are less GI whereas the eating oxalate symptoms were more GI -- which makes sense given that oxalate dumping means it's coming out of cells elsewhere in the body rather than coming in through the GI tract.

[Rachel--24]

One mom over there doing LOD said they also follow Dr. Semon's yeast-free diet and that going LOD also caused them to increase sugar intake. I know now my yeast problems have increased and that I have to deal with that next. Have any of you done Nystatin? Who else here has yeast problems and what do you do for it?

Side note on this: Dr. Semon apparently discourages a lot of meat eating because the feed for animals is often aspergillus-contaminated...which contributes to yeast problems. Rachel -- maybe you know more about this?

Hi Florence.

I've taken Nystatin off and on for more than 3 years now. I'm not taking it anymore because it really doesnt "cure" the problem and one of my current Dr.'s is against me taking it because he doesnt want any pharmaceuticals putting my liver under any extra stress. So I take natural stuff for yeast.

The yeast is highly linked with the metals so its not possible for me to totally fix the yeast/oxalate problem until the metals are gone. Right now I'm just trying to manage it.

Yeast and metals are my primary problems.

Yes...its true that the meats are contaminated with all kinds of mycotoxins...not just from Aspergillus but from other molds as well.

Since I'm so reactive to them I dont do well with meat from grain-fed animals. For over a year now I've pretty much tried to stick to grass-fed only. I mostly eat organic grass-fed beef....occassionally grass fed lamb. Once in awhile I eat some turkey or chicken but never on a regular basis because I'll start reacting and feeling pretty moldy/yeasty.

I have never once had a problem with organic grass fed meat.

[Flor]

That's helpful about the grass-fed beef -- I wondered if it would avoid the fungus problem.

What do you do naturally for yeast? I was wondering whether grapefruit seed extract was low or high oxalate. Any idea?

Any of you do aloe vera juice?

[Rachel--24]

I'm taking caprylic acid for yeast but I've stopped it as I'm testing the Biotin.

Theres a good list of helpful supplements as well as some to avoid here...

Open Original Shared Link

About the Nystatin...sometimes I would be fine with it and other times I'd be very reactive to it...which is another reason I figure its probably better for me to leave it out.

On the page I linked to this is what it says about Nystatin:

Nystatin: This may possibly keep the gut leaky through effects on the membrane that lies at the tight junction. Try eliminating it and see if that works better.

[Rachel--24]

Any of you do aloe vera juice?

Its been a few years since I tried aloe vera juice.....my experience with it wasnt good. I *think* it contained citric acid....which is from aspergillus.

[Flor]

A lot of folks over at the yahoo group are taking "ThreeLac" for yeast -- does anyone here have experience with that?

Rachel, have you tried grapefruit seed extract? Is caprylic acid the best thing you've found so far -- I mean, like you think it works? Any idea if it's high oxalate or no?

Is there a thread on this board that deals just with yeast issues, anyone know?

Thanks!

Florence

[Judyin Philly]

Florence............i still can't get back into the yahoo group!

Is it still helpful to us for the oxalate?

j

[jerseyangel]

Judy,

I'll email you a link to the group--I don't want to post it because it has my email address at the top. If anyone else needs it, I'll PM it.

I unsubscribed from getting the new messages because there were so many and I don't have time to read through them to determine which would be helpful to me.

[Flor]

Judy,

Let me know if you can't get on again this time -- you can also email the moderator, Susan Owens, because I know she wants us to be in the group. If that doesn't work, let me know and I'll email her.

I really do find that site helpful. Susan is the only one I know doing systematic research on the LOD, related supplements, and side effects. She's also just a sharp scientist type who has access to medical research I don't have access to. She can speak understandably about things like the methylation pathway, the role of sulfur, etc.

When you do sign on, you can choose to get every new message or choose to get just a daily summary emailed to you, or neither. I like getting the daily summary but not every single new message.

The discussion between parents is useful too because a lot of it is about tweaking the LOD to fit their needs and they mention foods I wouldn't even know to try -- like pumpkin seed butter and chestnut flour.

Keep me posted!

P.S. This is so weird, but there's a lot of talk on there of "penis pain" among the parents of the autism spectrum kids. I'm pretty sure that's the boy equivalent of vulvar pain...which I've NEVER had before until last week. So I'm pretty sure this is continued oxalate dumping, esp. since the VP Foundation is all about LOD. Their site, by the way, has some pretty interesting stuff about supplements -- they have a specific LOD protocol that we all should probably take a look at and see if there's anything there we haven't thought about.

[bluejeangirl]

That's helpful about the grass-fed beef -- I wondered if it would avoid the fungus problem.

What do you do naturally for yeast? I was wondering whether grapefruit seed extract was low or high oxalate. Any idea?

Any of you do aloe vera juice?

I was taking Cat's Claw which is pretty powerful and it's also good for leaky gut, ulcers, diverticulosis, improves the immune system and more if you want to google it. But its high is antioxidants and pytochemicals so I figured its a given that its also high in oxalates. So I stopped taking it.

I'll get yeast to die off just by eating low carb. I've got to just fight one battle at a time and I'm going to try and heal with this oxalate diet first. I'll worry later about what to do next. I am eating alot of onions and garlic and those are good at killing parisites and candida also.

I get sick on aloe vera juice. Just thinking about it makes me sick. I'm taking a probiotic that you have to refrigerate. Made in madison Wisconsin sold by chiropractors called T9 to L1 SmI by Chiro-Zyme. So I"m doing alittle to help with the candida. Now to stop eating cookies.

Gail

[nora-n]

Years ago, Karen Tripp put up a website about candida where she mentions that fibromyalgia i just candida of the mucslces...I think she was onto something.

She mentions some supplements and of course the diet and has a lot of recipes.

(of course buckwheat is high carb so it is an avoid)

Open Original Shared Link

Maybe someone should mail her and explain about the candida and olalate connection....and that she was onto something.

nora

[Flor]

Nora, That's a pretty interesting site!

Has anyone tried the supplement she says did the thing for her (on top of the diet)? Formula SF722 by Thorne Research? I wonder what's in it? She says Amazon sells it, so maybe they say -- I'll go look.

I was about to try Three-Lac and a ton of people over on the yahoo site give it to their kids. But she says nothing good about it.

By the way, there's a very interesting "yeast" thread over at the trying-low-oxalate yahoo group -- it re-surfaced in the last day and has a pretty interesting discussion of how oxalate and yeast problems are related. A lot of folks there say that sticking with the LOD also got rid of their yeast problems.

Florence