Rotation Diets

[miles2go]

The prospect of a rotation diet can be intimidating at first, mostly because there are so many out there, but it doesn’t have to be that or expensive, particularly for our demographic that relies on whole foods so much. Once you decide on one to try, it’s really easy and can be fun. I’m a single person and even with the freezer and dehydrating food as long-term storage options, don’t feel the need to do so in order to get a week’s worth of food to rotate. Here’s the basic concept that I follow, derived from Amadea Morningstar; its aims are to provide more variety and eliminate the tendency to eat the same foods all the time, to get an idea of what’s bothering you and group foods according to botanical families.

She recommends not doing this for long periods of time if you are vegetarian. I would say that if you are and can work in a variation that provides enough nutrition without including whatever it is that you don’t eat, then rotate those. It’s kind of a flexible schedule as long as you’re not eating the same foods every 4 days, in the case of this particular rotation diet.

Day 1

Vegetables: mushrooms, bamboo shoots, okra, eggplant, peppers, potato, tomato, tomatillo

Fruits: avocado, pomegranate, apple, pear, grapes

Grains and Flours: barley, wheat, rye (obviously not for us), oats, sorghum

Nuts and Seeds: walnuts, pecans

Animal Products: cow’s milk, butter, cheese, yogurt and from water buffalo, goat and sheep

Sweeteners: molasses, sorghum, sugar cane, Sucanat ™

Fats and Oils: ghee and butter, walnut oil

Herbs and Spices: juniper berries, lemongrass, bay, cinnamon, star anise, lavender, marjoram, mint, oregano, rosemary, sage, savory, thyme, poppyseed

Day 2

Vegetables: beet, chard, spinach, cucumber, pumpkin and all squash, olive

Fruits: all melons, blueberry, cranberry, banana, guava, apricot, cherry, nectarine, peach, plum, prune

Grains and Flours: amaranth, quinoa, millet

Nuts and Seeds: chestnut, pumpkin seed, Brazil nut, macadamia, almond

Animal Products: turkey and dove, pigeon, ruffed grouse and their eggs, if you can find them. J

Sweeteners: maple syrup, black cherry concentrate

Fats and Oils: olive oil

Herbs and Spices: ginseng, allspice, clove, jasmine, cardamom, ginger, turmeric

Day 3

Vegetables: all sea vegetables, artichoke, endive, escarole, sunchoke, lettuce, radicchio, jicama, sweet potato, alfalfa sprouts, all beans and their sprouts, lentils and peas

Fruits: pineapple, persimmon, starfruit, blackberry, boysenberry, raspberry, strawberry, currant

Grains and Flours: rice of all kinds, including wild rice, teff and their flours, all bean flours, mesquite

Nuts and Seeds: sunflower seeds, hazelnut, peanut, soy nuts

Animal Products: duck and goose (I include fish in this rotation, since it seems a natural complement)

Sweeteners: pure rice syrup, honey

Fats and Oils: sunflower, safflower or peanut oil

Herbs and Spices: fenugreek, nutmeg, anise, asafetida, caraway, celery seed, chervil, coriander, cumin, dill, fennel, parsley, black/white peppercorns

Day 4

Vegetables: arugula, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, Chinese cabbage, collards, watercress, daikon, kale, kohlrabi, mustard greens, bok choy, radish, rutabaga, turnip, corn, asparagus, chives, garlic, leek, onion, shallot, day lily, sorrel

Fruits: kiwi, mango, papaya, fig, date, rhubarb, all citrus fruits

Grains and Flours: buckwheat, kasha, corn in all forms

Nuts and Seeds: cashew, pistachio, coconut, sesame seed

Animal Products: chicken, pheasant, quail, Guinea fowl and all their eggs (I include pork products here, as it seems to be another natural complement)

Sweeteners: date sugar, fructose (corn-based)

Fats and Oils: canola, corn, palm, and sesame oils

Herbs and Spices: orange peel, horseradish, mustard seed, saffron, aloe vera, chives, garlic, vanilla

For things not specifically mentioned here, you kind of have to extrapolate a bit. I remember a particular ahh! moment when I realized that I could have any hot beverage in the morning depending upon the particular tea/tisane I was having, combined with a certain sweetener (coffee is a Day 1 for you coffee folk, as is chocolate/cocoa) and any kind of vinaigrette that I could imagine for any day, given that I used the right combination of oil, vinegar and herbs or spices, e.g. walnut oil, apple cider vinegar and rosemary and oregano for a Day 1 salad combination.

Hope this helps…

[melmak5]

I am a little confused.

Do you have to eat one thing from each of those groups every day? How do you determine if it is one thing or not the other... do you have to wait 4 days to try to piece it together?

[kevieb]

aren't rotation diets supposed to be good for avoiding or managing food intolerances? (not food allergies)

[melmak5]

Can anyone speak to the actual process and how they figured out which foods they were allergic/intolerant to and how?

Thanks.

[kbtoyssni]

aren't rotation diets supposed to be good for avoiding or managing food intolerances? (not food allergies)

Yes, they are. Your body can often tolerate a certain amount of a food so if you eat it everyday you can go over the limit and start reacting to it.

Can anyone speak to the actual process and how they figured out which foods they were allergic/intolerant to and how?

Thanks.

I'm assuming you're talking about using an elimination diet to diagnose food allergies/intolerances. The diet here is more of a maintenance diet to help avoid additional allergies/intolerances from developing and to balance the nutrients you're putting in your body. If you want more of an elimination diet, there are two ways to do it. One is to eliminate one food at a time (for maybe 2 weeks each) and see how you feel. The other is to cut out everything for two weeks, then add foods back in one at a time and see how you feel. I went for the second option because many people have multiple intolerances. If you are gluten and casein intolerant and you eliminate casein and not gluten, it's unlikely you will feel much better.

[melmak5]

So here is my situation.

I have eliminated gluten, dairy, caffeine, alcohol, tea, chocolate, citrus... but I still don't feel better.

(bloating, distention, D, hives)

My question is how to figure out what else it could be. I like the idea of a rotation diet, but if you are rotating in and out foods, how do you determine if its almonds or avocados, or do you have to wait for 4 more days to go by eat almonds, not avocados and see if there is a reaction.

[Jestgar]

Stop eating everything except white rice and chicken. If you feel fine on this, start adding back things, one per week and watch carefully for any reactions. If you don't feel fine on rice and chicken, swap out fish for the chicken and see if that helps, if not, swap out some other grain for the rice. If that doesn't help either, stop eating grains and start eating some fruits and veggies, preferably those you don't usually eat and see if that helps.

[melmak5]

I have tried rice and chicken and did have to stop that.

One last question, how long is a reaction time? I know this can vary person to person, but I am not sure how to pinpoint what's going on. (and I have a 4 month, very detailed food journal)

[Jestgar]

I would think up to two weeks. And sometimes things combined can cause reactions.

[Yellow Rose]

I am currently doing an e diet. I started 3 weeks ago. I was looking at the Paleo diet and found a link on e diets.

www.frot.co.nz/dietnet/resources/ediet_howto.htm

This one was aimed at people with arthritus and since I have RA I choose to do it. It is very restrictive in the beginning. For a week you eat only white fish,trout or mackerel, carrots, rutabagas, sweet potatoes, turnips, celery, yams, zuchinni, sea salt, peaches, and pears. Then you start adding foods back in 4 a day. You will react within 4 hours if you have a problem with a food and if you react you don't eat that food for 30 days. So far I have reacted to butter, chocolate, corn, peaches, tomatoes. I also have been watching for nightshades, oxalates, and things that are sweet to see if it could be a yeast thing. I was getting confussed so I went and bought a couple of poster boards and made catagories. My understanding from my daughters allergist is that foods can be added back in after 30 days for 1 meal in a week and you shouldn't have a problem with it if you are intolerent to that food. Now that doesn't work with gluten so don't try it with that. I do know that I have a problem with candida yeast and am trying to fix that after finishing with the e diet. Sure hope this works as I have hit a plateau and am not getting any better. I don't have the whole gut reaction but mine is muscle and joint pain and swelling. I am sick of being sick and am determined to find what is the problem.

Yellow Rose

[miles2go]

Hi all, rotation and elimination diets are two very different things, but get at the root of the problem in different ways. I've done both and would recommend both. I started with a rotation diet, wherein you can eat anything from each of the respective days and take note of which days you feel better. For me, it was Day 2 and Day 3, when I wasn't eating any wheat, barley, oats, rye (Day 1) or corn (Day 4). That seemed to pinpoint certain families of food. After that, I did an elimination diet based on the results. For instance, I have trouble with the goosefoot family - I can't eat beets, but can eat spinach, chard is a maybe, I still need to research that. Starting an elimination diet without going through a rotation diet first seems like a lot of work to me...elimination diets are a lot of work, but if you can focus on certain food groups with a rotation diet, much the better.

Hope that's kind of clear. It's been a busy autumn here in Maine.

Margaret

[oceangirl]

Hi all, rotation and elimination diets are two very different things, but get at the root of the problem in different ways. I've done both and would recommend both. I started with a rotation diet, wherein you can eat anything from each of the respective days and take note of which days you feel better. For me, it was Day 2 and Day 3, when I wasn't eating any wheat, barley, oats, rye (Day 1) or corn (Day 4). That seemed to pinpoint certain families of food. After that, I did an elimination diet based on the results. For instance, I have trouble with the goosefoot family - I can't eat beets, but can eat spinach, chard is a maybe, I still need to research that. Starting an elimination diet without going through a rotation diet first seems like a lot of work to me...elimination diets are a lot of work, but if you can focus on certain food groups with a rotation diet, much the better.

Hope that's kind of clear. It's been a busy autumn here in Maine.

Margaret

Margaret,

Thank you for this topic. I've been a year and a half gluten, corn, soy, legume free and, after three great months (for the most part-still mysterious glutenings or something), am reacting to something again. It's been 5 days of pain and bloat and D and C and even with my DETAILED food-log I'm getting to my wits end. I am REALLY stuck on the same foods (fairly limited, too)- and I'm thinking I need to get brave and expand my diet. So I may give your rotation a whirl (probably in a limited way so as not to overwhelm my system which is used to about 10 foods!).

Thanks again. Hope things are nice up in Orono- it's been pretty weird and balmy down here in Southern Maine!

lisa

[7-cody]

Stop eating everything except white rice and chicken. If you feel fine on this, start adding back things, one per week and watch carefully for any reactions. If you don't feel fine on rice and chicken, swap out fish for the chicken and see if that helps, if not, swap out some other grain for the rice. If that doesn't help either, stop eating grains and start eating some fruits and veggies, preferably those you don't usually eat and see if that helps.

Is this the elimination diet? I want to try it. Is it safe to eat nothing but rice and chicken for a few weeks?

Do I need to do more research or is it as simple as just eat chicken and rice?

[Juliebove]

Stop eating everything except white rice and chicken. If you feel fine on this, start adding back things, one per week and watch carefully for any reactions. If you don't feel fine on rice and chicken, swap out fish for the chicken and see if that helps, if not, swap out some other grain for the rice. If that doesn't help either, stop eating grains and start eating some fruits and veggies, preferably those you don't usually eat and see if that helps.

Unless you're allergic to chicken. My mom is.

And if you have more than one food allergy, and it takes a while for the reaction to show up, that doesn't help. With my daughter, sometimes she doesn't get the reaction until a day later. I think a RAST test is much better. They draw the blood and can tell you what all you are allergic to.

[7-cody]

Unless you're allergic to chicken. My mom is.

And if you have more than one food allergy, and it takes a while for the reaction to show up, that doesn't help. With my daughter, sometimes she doesn't get the reaction until a day later. I think a RAST test is much better. They draw the blood and can tell you what all you are allergic to.

can I get a RAST test from any family doctor etc?

Also, has anyone had any success with either the rast test/elimination diet/rotation diet?

Is it possible to find out I'm allergic to something, avoid it and then have my brain fog and fatigue be 100% GONE. does that ever happen or am I just wasting my time?

[melmak5]

My brain fog stopped when I stopped eating rice (in addition to being gluten/dairy/alcohol/caffeine/soy/corn/egg-free)

It came back when I tried a scrambled egg this weekend.

It took me a full day sans-rice to feel a difference.

[7-cody]

My brain fog stopped when I stopped eating rice (in addition to being gluten/dairy/alcohol/caffeine/soy/corn/egg-free)

It came back when I tried a scrambled egg this weekend.

It took me a full day sans-rice to feel a difference.

I hardly ever eat rice though. do you think maybe a few of those caused brain fog for you, or just rice? And damn, what the hell do you eat? (heheh)

what kind of symptoms did you have before you started avoiding different foods?

I get brain fog and C, which are my primary and most concerned symptoms.

[melmak5]

SYMPTOMS

Excessive Burping

Burping with Regurgitation

Heartburn (especially w/fruit and rice)

Fullness

Very loud abdominal noises

Abdomen pain, distention, bloating (outward pressure)

Sharp stabbing abdomen pain (short, fleeting, inward)

Diarrhea, Constipation

Rectal Bleeding

Headaches

Dizzy

Fatigue

Exhaustion

Brian fog (unable to concentrate)

Hives/rashes

Bumps on wrists/foot (2+ months)

Itching/pain in mouth with fruit

Skin peeling on head/eyebrows

Since cutting out rice and the aforementioned, I have gotten rid of brain fog, and the bleeding. Not eating fruit has stopped my mouth from reacting.

I am still hoping for the rest to go away, but they are not and I am off to see two new doctors.

Right now, I can eat: pickles, sauerkraut, potato chips, dried prunes, carrots (cooked), sweet potato, onions, cooked greens, sometimes turkey, sometimes beef... without regurgitating, but they still cause the other symptoms.

Anything with sugar equals "dragon fire burps"

Anything more than a handful of food is a guaranteed burping/regurgitation fest

I tried a cup of coffee today, to try to compensate for the constipation... BAD IDEA.

Cody, I firmly belief you are going to find your source and so will I!

[Sweetfudge]

I am currently doing an e diet. I started 3 weeks ago. I was looking at the Paleo diet and found a link on e diets.

www.frot.co.nz/dietnet/resources/ediet_howto.htm

This one was aimed at people with arthritus and since I have RA I choose to do it. It is very restrictive in the beginning. For a week you eat only white fish,trout or mackerel, carrots, rutabagas, sweet potatoes, turnips, celery, yams, zuchinni, sea salt, peaches, and pears. Then you start adding foods back in 4 a day. You will react within 4 hours if you have a problem with a food and if you react you don't eat that food for 30 days. So far I have reacted to butter, chocolate, corn, peaches, tomatoes. I also have been watching for nightshades, oxalates, and things that are sweet to see if it could be a yeast thing. I was getting confussed so I went and bought a couple of poster boards and made catagories. My understanding from my daughters allergist is that foods can be added back in after 30 days for 1 meal in a week and you shouldn't have a problem with it if you are intolerent to that food. Now that doesn't work with gluten so don't try it with that. I do know that I have a problem with candida yeast and am trying to fix that after finishing with the e diet. Sure hope this works as I have hit a plateau and am not getting any better. I don't have the whole gut reaction but mine is muscle and joint pain and swelling. I am sick of being sick and am determined to find what is the problem.

Yellow Rose

Yellow Rose, how is this going for you? I'm thinking about starting an e diet for me and my husband.

Here's my main question though: I can handle eating "different" foods, but my husband is a very picky eater. He doesn't like most of the stuff i've read are in e diets. What do I do about him???

[miles2go]

Hi Lisa and everybody else,

I didn't realize that this thread was still alive. What I like about the rotation diet is that it helps target food families very quickly. For instance, I don't have any problems with any citrus fruits, but the pome family is one where I have to avoid pears, but can eat apples just fine. It's easy to expand on this if you go to the grocery store knowing what your "friendly" families are because you can eat, say a grapefruit one Day 4, an orange the next Day 4 and so on. You do still have to keep track, but compared to the elimination diet, where you have to add one food in at a time and test over three days, that just seems to me like a very quick way to end up on 10 or so foods and at wit's end. Sorry you're having such a hard time, Lisa, I'd recommend Amadea Morningstar's book in a heartbeat, just for the rotation diet in the Appendix. The title is Ayurvedic Cooking For Westerners. Marjorie Hurt Jones, in her The Self-Help Allergy Cookbook had an interesting suggestion too, worth mentioning. Try some of the more unusual foods. Things like buffalo instead of beef, starfruit, avocado, you know, the things that people don't seem to buy that much, since you're much less likely to have an intolerance/allergy to them. And I've not yet figured out the difference between those yet, but know when my body's happy.

It's been kind of a weird little fall weatherwise in Maine this year, as I remember the last couple or so to be, hasn't it? It's still relatively balmy although yesterday was cold, but that's just fine with me as it's keeping the heating bills down.

Margaret