What European Contry Did Coeliacs Originate From?

[UnhappyCoeliac]

Been browsing the net and cant find anything other than Europe.... Europe's a big place.... There is suggestive statistics that it may be from Ireland.... but Guinness has gluten right? Who knows can someone replay or link me too a lil on where it came from>? Thanks

Did not even know I had any European ancestors till I was diagnosed 3mths ago!

[Mother of Jibril]

The genes for celiac disease exist in all countries throughout the human population. The evolutionary benefit--a really strong immune system against bacteria and viruses--becomes a liability in "modern" diets that have things like genetically modified wheat and high fructose corn syrup.

You definitely DON'T need to have European ancestors to have celiac disease.

[irish daveyboy]

Been browsing the net and cant find anything other than Europe.... Europe's a big place.... There is suggestive statistics that it may be from Ireland.... but Guinness has gluten right? Who knows can someone replay or link me too a lil on where it came from>? Thanks

Did not even know I had any European ancestors till I was diagnosed 3mths ago!

.

Hi,

you may be referring to the fact that Ireland

has the highest per capita incidence of Coeliac Disease.

.

This was relatively unknown prior to the Open Original Shared Link in 1845.

.

The Majority of the population were dependent on the humble potato.

The Potato was the mainstay of the Irish Diet

even the bread the ate was potato derived like potato bread

a mixture of cooked mashed potato and ground corn or 'Boxty'

a griddle bread of grated raw potato, onions, egg and cornflour.

.

When the Potato Crop failed, due to 'blight' those that remained

and could afford wheat flour were introduced to wheaten bread.

.

Here is a link to the History of Coeliac Disease.

.

Open Original Shared Link

.

Best Regards,

David

[lbd]

Actually, the genes that link to celiac disease are probably some of the most unchanged genes. They were most likely present in the earliest ancestors and helped to boost an immune system exposed to all sorts of invaders. The problem is that wheat and other grain products were introduced at a fairly recent time in human history and very few populations have had changes in these genes that allow them to tolerate the toxins in these grains. Populations closer to the grain belts probably have had more change, while those that moved farther away, into areas like the British Isles, etc. and were exposed to little grain, did not change.

Populations closer to the grain areas changed because those that had the gene mutations survived better and were able to pass on those genes to the next generations, while those with the "old" genes suffered from grain-related illnesses and did not survive to reproduce as well. Those in areas not exposed to grains never had a pressure to change, thus we have the original genes still.

The gluten intolerance/sensitivity issue is a fascinating display of evolution and natural selection at work.

Laurie

[mommida]

In Europe there was a group of indegenious people called by many names and spellings now i.e. Sami, Saami, and quite a few other spellings (many languages of Europe describing the culture and I believe 5 languages amonst the group of people). They were nomadic and followed the reindeer herds through the artic circle. The area of lands they traveled ran through the countries of Russia, Finland, Norway, and Sweden. (The Samoyed dog came from these people.) They are to thought to be as ancient as the druids. The Norwegian government at one time tried to erase the heritage because of the ritualistic pagan type religion. The people were disparaged, endured genetic testing, and studied. A lot of the Sami people went into hiding and assimilated into the cultures of Russia, Finland, Norway, and Sweden.

That is one possible source of the original Celiacs.

Humans started with the Caveman diet, and then switched over to farming. The groups of people that were later to switch over to grain diets are supposed to be more severely affected by Celiac.

I just want to add... I have tried to state things in "lay mans" terms I have tried to leave out names associated with this ancient people that have in recent days become offensive. I am some what fascinated by this information and wanted to share what I had found but I am not sure what terms are offensive.

[Jestgar]

In Europe there was a group of indegenious people called by many names and spellings now i.e. Sami, Saami,

Is this where you got some of your info?

Open Original Shared Link

[mommida]

Yes, and some ancient family folklore.

[Lisa]

This might be informative:

Open Original Shared Link

[Jestgar]

Yes, and some ancient family folklore.

Maybe not the most technically accurate, but frequently the most informative.

[caek-is-a-lie]

The ancient Greeks had Celiac and probably the ancient Phoenicians, Egyptians, and Africans before them. My guess is it's been around since the dawn of agriculture.

The likely reason why there's such a high prevalence in Ireland is because it's an island, so it's going to have a larger "founder effect." Like dwarfism among the Amish. Genetics & Ecology...isn't it fun?

[OttarrandRose'sMommy]

The ancient Greeks had Celiac and probably the ancient Phoenicians, Egyptians, and Africans before them. My guess is it's been around since the dawn of agriculture.

The likely reason why there's such a high prevalence in Ireland is because it's an island, so it's going to have a larger "founder effect." Like dwarfism among the Amish. Genetics & Ecology...isn't it fun?

My family and I belong to the SCA-Society for Creative Anachronism. The time period we live in is 10th Century Viking/Saami. For ones who are not familiar with the SCA we study, live and participate in experimental archaeology of that time period. www.sca.org for more information.

My children and I have celiac spru disease which prevents us from partcipating in many of the period feasts put on by talented chefs. In a discussion with several chefs a cook book was inspired. The goal of the cook book was to create a period "medieval feast" that meets the needs of people who are on gluten and sugar free and on low sodium diets. While researching the history of diabetes, heart ailments and celiac disease I found references from the Greek physican Hippocrates, who wrote about "sweet pee- (diabetes)" and "poor souls who couldn't digest wheat." It is historically documented that celiac and diabetes were known at least 2,000 years. The use of rice was known as far back as Alexander the Great who may have brought it back from India. In the medieval cookbook Book of Curry there are many many recipes that have rice as the main ingrediant. Soy was known at this time, but was confined to Asia. Tapioca was known and it is written that Columbus ate tapioca bread on his voyages to Cuba. The history of Amaranth is sketchy. It was known and used, but it was considered the "poor man's grain." It is also called "pig weed" because it was fed to pigs. Quinoa was known by the Spanish conquerors because there are records of them destroying the Inca and Mayan fields. They forced the Indians to eat wheat and corn.

Early Viking food was heavy on the meats, fruits and root vegitables. Grain bread was introduced to them when they "traveled" south to Britian, Ireland, Turkey, Russia and other places in Europe and the Middle East. Ireland, Britian and Italy were heavely settled by the Vikings. Pretty much look at a map of Europe and a Viking was there in that country. Ireland was a stop off point for traveling Norweigin Vikings to Iceland. Iceland has a heavy Irish influence. Thus the spread of the genes for Celiac disease.

The Saami diet was and still is heavy on meat (reindeer, elk and some beef), fish (char and salmon), fruit (lingonberries, cloud berries and blackberries), dairy (cheese and milk from reindeer and beef) and angelica and sorrel (as vegitable.) Grain bread was introduced by the Swedes and Norweigens and possibly the Italian and Dutch missionaries. Thus the genetic reason for celiac disease among the Saami.

I am of Saami/Swedish decent and both my children and I are celiacs. My Dad has been able to trace directly to the family in Stockholm and Finland.

My personal feeling is that celiac disease, like diabetes and heart disease, have been around for at least 2,000 years. But, due to genetic changes to our food sources I think that is why we are seeing a rise in celiac disease and diabetes.

Sorry this is a long post. But, enjoy.....

Bless Bless,

Helen

[caek-is-a-lie]

The ancient Greeks had Celiac and probably the ancient Phoenicians, Egyptians, and Africans before them. My guess is it's been around since the dawn of agriculture.

The likely reason why there's such a high prevalence in Ireland is because it's an island, so it's going to have a larger "founder effect." Like dwarfism among the Amish. Genetics & Ecology...isn't it fun?

Oops, I left out genetic drift. Sorry!

[mushroom]

I know this is off-topic, but is used as an illustration of how much we don't know about early peoples. And I did not pay enough attention to be able to give a reference, but read in the newspaper recently that there is archeological evidence that, way BC, peoples used to get milk from horses. This would seem to throw the Paleo diet into a little bit of disarray, if true. Imagine hunter-gatherers consuming dairy. And I believe the bible does talk about the land of milk and honey. Anyways, interesting topic, and I always enjoy what others bring to the figurative table.

[kmcr80]

The ancient Greeks had Celiac and probably the ancient Phoenicians, Egyptians, and Africans before them. My guess is it's been around since the dawn of agriculture.

The likely reason why there's such a high prevalence in Ireland is because it's an island, so it's going to have a larger "founder effect." Like dwarfism among the Amish. Genetics & Ecology...isn't it fun?

I've been told this as well, that it began with Greeks.

[gfpaperdoll]

Just thought that I would chime in that I have recently discovered that I am a Saami. I had my mtDNA run. I am U5b1b = the old line of Sami. Everything I read about these people amazes me & I can see my traits & tell that I came from these people. I have a thread on the Paleo forum about Sami.

Not only can I not eat gluten I also cannot eat grains, no dairy & no beef, among a few other things. The Sami used to eat Reindeer milk & cheese. but not anymore because of the radiation from the Chernobyl (sp?) accident.

The people used to be called Lapps from Lappland now considered derogatory but if you want to look them up in an old encyclopedia that is where the informaion is.

BTW, I am not considered celiac by the standard of the day in the U.S.. I have two DQ1 genes. But I am beyond sensitive to gluten & other grains.

[FranDaMan]

I followed the link to the Queensland Celiac folk provided above by IrishDavey. I have DH and not the full blown gastro issues as so many do and have been struggling to get my head wrapped around why me, why at this age when I had no known issues prior? Following that link and then to the DH area it seems I'm perfectly normal for age and symptoms!

Oh, BTW I am descended from Irish and Scotch. McVain, McNaughton and Blue on the Scottish side.

[mindiloo]

when I first went to my allergist to find out what was going he asked me what my nationalities were and when I said that I'm Irish and Italian he responded "Oh you didn't want to tell me that." I blame my parents for all of this hahah

I'm not sure where it originated, but apparently Celiac is the most prevalent genetic disease in Italy, and it's also quite prominent in Ireland.

[maile]

when I first went to my allergist to find out what was going he asked me what my nationalities were and when I said that I'm Irish and Italian he responded "Oh you didn't want to tell me that." I blame my parents for all of this hahah

I'm not sure where it originated, but apparently Celiac is the most prevalent genetic disease in Italy, and it's also quite prominent in Ireland.

I'll be sure to blame my parents as well then, also Irish Italian