Food Ingredient Label Question To Mfg.

[Bigdawg]

I am new to this celiac thing and have been doing a lot of research trying to find what ingredients are in what products. Most companies have been really helpful. However, I received the following reply when I asked Lawry's Foods what products they have that are gluten-free.

"Thank you for writing!

Our products are formulated for use by majority of consumers, and not specifically for those on restricted diets, it is possible our product formulations may change at any time. Since product formulations change from time to time, we do not have a printed list of products that identifies those products that contain specific allergens or gluten. The best advice we can give you is to check the ingredient list on the label. Ingredients that may contain any of the top eight allergens as defined by FDA (Peanuts, Tree Nuts, Soy, Fish, Seafood, Wheat, Eggs, and Milk or Dairy, as well as any ingredient that may contain Gluten are always listed on the label. Therefore, we suggest reading all ingredient labels carefully. If you cannot determine whether the product contains the ingredient in question, we suggest that you don't use it.

We hope this helps!

Your friends at Lawry's"

I used to like their products and wanted to continue using them if I could. However, their product quality control does not seem to favor persons with celiac.

[bluelotus]

When I read this, all I could hear was the boss from Office Space saying "yeaaahhh" Riiiight. Laughable how a food company doesn't know/can't be held accountable for what's in their food.

Guess I won't be eating their stuff.

[lovegrov]

Umm, their response follows the new labeling law -- the top eight allergens must be plainly listed -- and they'll also plainly list any other source of gluten. This is absolutely the best we can ask of any company. No need to call them ever or worry about whether a list is out-of-date. Just read the ingredients. If every company did this, our lives would be much simpler.

richard

[nettiebeads]

Umm, their response follows the new labeling law -- the top eight allergens must be plainly listed -- and they'll also plainly list any other source of gluten. This is absolutely the best we can ask of any company. No need to call them ever or worry about whether a list is out-of-date. Just read the ingredients. If every company did this, our lives would be much simpler.

richard

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm very thankful for the new law - I was checking out a bag of candy on a coworker's desk and while it did not contain any gluten, it was made in a facility that also processes wheat. So not only was I saved from the calories , I was spared a possible cross-contamination.

[bluelotus]

I think the new law is a bunch of crap. What about barley, rye, and oats? That doesn't have to be listed yet. And do they even consider wheat relatives as "wheat"?? I have had one company that told me that all gluten would be listed on their packaging, but when I asked about a specific meal, they told me it was not gluten-free (okay, but no gluten on the label). When asked again, they said that none of their products were gluten-free, but there was no gluten on many of the labels nor any mention of wheat facilities!!! I don't trust any of these companies. Its not that they are out to get me or anything, its that they are all idiots.

[lovegrov]

Lawry's is saying they will list ALL sources of gluten, not just wheat. This is what we want.

The new law isn't perfect but it will cover 90 to 95 percent of hidden gluten. And when barley is hidden you often can tell (I always assume malt means barley) or guess that you need to check. Rye is never hidden and I don't think oats are, either.

Bobcatgirl, Lawry's response says absolutely nothing about not knowing what's in their food or not being accountable, as you suggest, it simply says you need to read the ingredients for yourself. I'm don't understand what's so bad about that.

richard

[VegasCeliacBuckeye]

I agree Richard.

My only concern would be for hidden gluten.

Having said that, I have not run into many instances where barley or rye is used in food additives, preservatives or starches. Wheat is the biggest problem by far.

[bluelotus]

I think you all are misunderstanding me, so I will only say this once and be done. My problem is with hidden gluten. yes, the law says that they will specify whether the plant processes wheat, but I don't know about 90-95%, I need to see the data. Just b/c someone wrote that doesn't make it true.

Consider Lay's Natural line of chips. They do not acknowledge processing wheat at their plants on the packaging, at least not that I have seen yet, but if you call, they will tell you that gluten is processed in the plant and although they wash machines, there is no guarentee. Yes, the legal considerations are in the right direction and it is better than nothing, but it is not perfect and I would still recommend consulting companies verses just checking for allergen processing lists. Also, some companies like Stoneyfield use grain distillation with their natural flavorings, but this is not acknowledged either, and I have gotten sick from them (I know this is an argued point as well, but not to me - you cannot tell me that pieces of gluten recongnized by the immune system will not break off during this process). All I am saying is that companies are not being directly accountable on their packaging, though most are when you call or email. Then again, the indian food frozen meals that I mentioned in my other post were not accountable. Lawry's sounded too much to me like that indian food company - what about cross contamination? That was the indian food's problem - they said all gluten was listed in ingrediants, but when I pressed them for the items that were gluten-free, they said none of their products were.

Overall, I am just saying to be careful and always take what companies say with a grain of salt.....or a grain of wheat.

[tarnalberry]

Also, some companies like Stoneyfield use grain distillation with their natural flavorings, but this is not acknowledged either, and I have gotten sick from them (I know this is an argued point as well, but not to me - you cannot tell me that pieces of gluten recongnized by the immune system will not break off during this process).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not disputing you get sick from these products, but I'm disputing "will not break off during this process". Distillation isn't about "breaking things off". If you read up on the process, you'll find that it involves the evaporation of various molecules out of a liquid substance. Evaporation depends upon many things, one of which is partical weight. While evaporation, like most physical processes, is a guassian distribution (albeit one with a very small stdev), the rest of the apparatus is set up to essentially 'screen' out these items through various physical means. The bond energies of the gluten protein molecules are quite high, and there simply is not enough energy input into the system to break them apart during the distillation process. So, yes, I can tell you that the pieces of gluten recognized by the immune system will not break off during this process, because that's the way physics works. That being said, I am not questioning your reaction to items, merely the stated cause of the reaction.

I have to agree with the others on the issue with Lawry's however - they're being as helpful as they can be; they keep their labels updated and will include anything with gluten in plain language on the label. I do understand your frustration with the labeling law, though, as there is still the barley/rye/oats risk. Fortunately, we have some companies that will go above and beyond those requirements and label the other sources of gluten.

[lovegrov]

When I posted I was simply addressing the issue of listing what supposed to be in the ingredients. I was not talking about cross contamination, which people can always call the company about. Has Lawrys been asked about this?

More and more foods are in fact listing at least whether the top 8 allergens are produced in the same facility (although that's not the same as the same line). Just today I saw such a list on some Halloween candy.

I know you have more allergies or sensitivities than I do and so it's even tougher for you, but my fear is that if we demand that every processed food carry every possible allergen that might have gotten near that product during processing, every processed food will simply end up with a generic CYA warning label that won't tell us anything.

richard

[bluelotus]

I'm not disputing you get sick from these products, but I'm disputing "will not break off during this process".  Distillation isn't about "breaking things off".  If you read up on the process, you'll find that it involves the evaporation of various molecules out of a liquid substance.  Evaporation depends upon many things, one of which is partical weight.  While evaporation, like most physical processes, is a guassian distribution (albeit one with a very small stdev), the rest of the apparatus is set up to essentially 'screen' out these items through various physical means.  The bond energies of the gluten protein molecules are quite high, and there simply is not enough energy input into the system to break them apart during the distillation process.  So, yes, I can tell you that the pieces of gluten recognized by the immune system will not break off during this process, because that's the way physics works.  That being said, I am not questioning your reaction to items, merely the stated cause of the reaction.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know you all are trying to be helpful. But I am in a pissy mood and this is not doing me any good. So, I will try to be as polite and understanding as I can. I took chemistry in college through organic, so thanks, but I do have a decent understanding of things. See the contradicting (and generic, but couldn't find the good ones I had several months ago) links below. I understand that for bonds to break, they need a certain amount of activation energy - this energy can come from heat or other molecules moving about . I know this. But I also recognize (being from a biological field, specifically genetics) that no system is perfect.... that's enough for me and I choose to protect myself from the risk. Now, whether the Stoneyfield incident was a result of human error, faulty distillation, or a breakage of a peptide bond, who the hell knows, and frankly, I don't entirely care. I got sick within two hours of eating it after being fine for months and that was all I had eaten in a span of 8 hours (all before I lived with my main contamination source - my husband).

Open Original Shared Link

https://www.celiac.com/st_prod.html?p_prodid=414

Yes, Richard, and that is why I avoid processed food. Who wants that stuff in their body anyway? Homemade's better. And actually, I am allergy free, but do have intolerances. BTW - I thought you all were talking about the companies listing whether other "allergens" were processed in the plant, obviously, a potential source of contamination. Sorry about the confusion. I have brain fog (not to mention anger issues) after being glutened last week from a hair product.

[tarnalberry]

I know you all are trying to be helpful.  But I am in a pissy mood and this is not doing me any good.  So, I will try to be as polite and understanding as I can.  I took chemistry in college through organic, so thanks, but I do have a decent understanding of things.  See the contradicting  (and generic, but couldn't find the good ones I had several months ago) links below.  I understand that for bonds to break, they need a certain amount of activation energy - this energy can come from heat or other molecules moving about .  I know this.  But I also recognize (being from a biological field, specifically genetics) that no system is perfect.... that's enough for me and I choose to protect myself from the risk.  Now, whether the Stoneyfield incident was a result of human error, faulty distillation, or a breakage of a peptide bond, who the hell knows, and frankly, I don't entirely care.  I got sick within two hours of eating it after being fine for months and that was all I had eaten in a span of 8 hours (all before I lived with my main contamination source - my husband).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Neither link had evidence supporting a physical reason - aside from contamination - why pure distilled grain alchohol would have gluten in them. I think it's important to note that comparing the results on one type of brandy to what is used for flavor extracts isn't necessarily a fair comparison. But, I totally agree that if that is what works for a person, then they should go with it. We've heard from more than one person with problems with Stonyfield, and I don't know that all of them have had issues with regular distilled alcohol, so between that and my understanding of the physical process (and I'm glad you're familiar with it! I wish more people were - my background comes from physical chemistry, being a physics major), I'm inclined to believe that Stonyfield has a problem with contamination independent of their flavor extracts. Either way, it'd be out, though, and that's what matters at the end.

[bluelotus]

It is my understanding that one link mentions the possible breakage of a peptide bond within the gluten molecule, which may be recognized by the body and cause a rxn. That is what I got from it anyway. Whatever. I am done with this topic.